So it seems that the only way to access the digital version of the new codexes is by buying the book and using the code.
You can't simply buy the codex on iTunes or on the Warhammer digital website. Is it just me or is this a truly terrible decision?
I live in Japan far from a gw store which often only has one or two copies of English books. If I order from gw directly it can take weeks to arrive. I have been digital only for all types of books for the last 5 years and have no intention of going back to physical. I really hope gw rethinks this.
I guess if you are desperate and have friends back in the states or in europe, you could have them buy the book and thus get access to its digital version, and promise simply to let you in on it.
Dukeofstuff wrote: I guess if you are desperate and have friends back in the states or in europe, you could have them buy the book and thus get access to its digital version, and promise simply to let you in on it.
Could even kick them back some money for doing so, make the Codex a bit cheaper for them, which I'm sure would be welcome.
For that same reason, I'm sure we'll see codes up on Ebay and the like before long. (Not that I'd advise buying any second-hand one-use codes from an unknown source.)
Dukeofstuff wrote: I guess if you are desperate and have friends back in the states or in europe, you could have them buy the book and thus get access to its digital version, and promise simply to let you in on it.
Could even kick them back some money for doing so, make the Codex a bit cheaper for them, which I'm sure would be welcome.
For that same reason, I'm sure we'll see codes up on Ebay and the like before long. (Not that I'd advise buying any second-hand one-use codes from an unknown source.)
Yeah that’s possible, but it is ridiculous that it is even necessary. Why did gw have to give doing something they have been doing quite successfully for many years? Even if there is a fair amount of piracy it hasn’t exactly hurt their bottom line.
Weren't the PDF versions the same or very similar price to hardcopy anyway? Granted it loses some impact when GW has put the price of a codex up any way, but I guess their view is that instead of giving free rules they are still charging for rules; but they are now giving free digital copies for physical purchases.
So you can still give GW some money for the digital copy; its just now linked to the app and also you have to buy a papercopy for the shelf. Which if you really don't want you can surely sell on secondhand.
Dukeofstuff wrote: I guess if you are desperate and have friends back in the states or in europe, you could have them buy the book and thus get access to its digital version, and promise simply to let you in on it.
Could even kick them back some money for doing so, make the Codex a bit cheaper for them, which I'm sure would be welcome.
For that same reason, I'm sure we'll see codes up on Ebay and the like before long. (Not that I'd advise buying any second-hand one-use codes from an unknown source.)
Yeah that’s possible, but it is ridiculous that it is even necessary. Why did gw have to give doing something they have been doing quite successfully for many years? Even if there is a fair amount of piracy it hasn’t exactly hurt their bottom line.
For one allows them to do only 1 version. They have the app version(which btw isn't pdf. Nor does it contain fluff etc. Just the rules like in app now), selling pdf would require them to...well make said pdf in the first place.
Poor reason but guess they don't want to sell 2 digital versions at once.
Overread wrote: Weren't the PDF versions the same or very similar price to hardcopy anyway? Granted it loses some impact when GW has put the price of a codex up any way, but I guess their view is that instead of giving free rules they are still charging for rules; but they are now giving free digital copies for physical purchases.
So you can still give GW some money for the digital copy; its just now linked to the app and also you have to buy a papercopy for the shelf. Which if you really don't want you can surely sell on secondhand.
No. In the uk the recently released Lumineth battletome is £25. The digital version is £17. The digital version that you get on the app isn’t actually the book. It’s just the rules. No art or lore.
Warhams-77 wrote: I dont know how it was done with other recent releases but shouldnt the ebook get available on the day of the print copy's release here:
The issue is that the app doesn’t contain the background and art. There are all kinds of reasons from visual impairments to dyslexia, why some people prefer to buy digital versions. GW just turned their back on those people.
Warhams-77 wrote: I dont know how it was done with other recent releases but shouldnt the ebook get available on the day of the print copy's release here:
Or should it be there already by now? At least to be preordered.
That's confusing.
There will no longer be ebooks of 40k codexes. That’s the whole problem. This has been confirmed by gw on Facebook.
This is new to me. Do you have a link towards the comment by GW?
EDIT: Never mind. Found it.
Hey Dan, there will not be a separate digital release of the codexes as the digital content will be available via the app using the codes provided with the codex.
That is so dissapointing... I liked the fact that I had an easy folder on my PC where everytghing was easily accessed. And I also specifically get codices for their lore and artwork.
I really wouldn't quote greedy a-hole whose recent anti-consumer practices make GW look downright saintly. Unless you want GW to try to transition their whole range from plastic to failcast and institute mandatory payments for using paints other than official GW ones, as well as attempt to abuse their monopolistic position to force people to paint not with brushes, but with fingers (using Citadel Gloves) which is about what that idiot attempted to do...
I don't recall steam trying to make it only run on "steam machines" But it did take a long time to make refunds an automatic thing rather than something you had to debate with a support ticket over.
No tzeentch is the one gambler that when everyone else is playing checkers to win, he is playing 4d chess for the sake of playing the game ad infinitum.
I really wouldn't quote greedy a-hole whose recent anti-consumer practices make GW look downright saintly. Unless you want GW to try to transition their whole range from plastic to failcast and institute mandatory payments for using paints other than official GW ones, as well as attempt to abuse their monopolistic position to force people to paint not with brushes, but with fingers (using Citadel Gloves) which is about what that idiot attempted to do...
Just because you disagree with a person, doesn't make the point moot.
Turth is, piracy has an extreme ammount to do with service rendered.
Gw's service is atleast digitally speaking attrocius, so why bother with it when there are alternatives.
And that isn't even going into the quality of the rules.
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Overread wrote: I don't recall steam trying to make it only run on "steam machines" But it did take a long time to make refunds an automatic thing rather than something you had to debate with a support ticket over.
Frankly steam has had it's fair share of issues, and was over time, forced to change.
GW is in the comparatively luxurious position of having the IP copyright cludgeon and an immense market weight for it's market.
The statement is often, go GW or go home in many a region and whilest 6-7th killed off some of the strength GW once had in form of local monolithic market position GW still retains a rather confortable lead.
Predaking wrote: they have their app now so you cant rent the digital copy on a monthly basis, they get more money that way
You don't get access to the 9th ed books through the sub. Once a 9th ed version of a book is released, they remove the 8th ed one from the sub. The only way to get the digital 9th ed on the app is the code, which doesn't require the sub.
Are they just completely unaware that you effectively need every codex to play?
Anyhow given how terrible and monetised their proprietary app is, this just makes me less inclined to buy physical books of the armies I most regularly play, especially since those got price hiked again.
The real issue is that my local store is a GW, so now I have to work out how the hell I’m meant to access the game’s rules within line of sight of the staff.
tneva82 wrote: I have played 22 years never owning every codex in some form. No you don't need
You need access to the rules of opposing factions.
If you want to play against someone with incomplete information and constantly referencing their book rather than just looking it up on your own time, I guess that’s up to you.
People will scan the codexes and make pdfs of them for the benefit of other players.
I think Londo mollari must have dealt with GW at some time...
(And of courseGW knows you need access to every codex, they're just stupid and arrogant enough to think people will spend like 300$ to buy them all. Honestly, GW not only justifies scanned codexes it almost mandates them. And yes I know it's against the law. I quit caring what was legal when i realized the law in nothing but what rich people want it to be.)
Since covid cancelled my annual convention, i just might possibly buy a copy of codex necrons, maybe. But if I do I will be doing it to support a local game store and because I usually buy things at a convention I won't be going to this year due to covidiots.
changemod wrote: Are they just completely unaware that you effectively need every codex to play?
No doubt there are loads of players that do buy every Codex - but it's hardly necessary. At least, not in this day and age of youtube previews, reviews and battle reports.
The "need every codex to play" thing is only true if you're a competitive player. Even then its not really true if you're experienced enough or have a good enough memory.
But it is a gakky policy. I went digital-only with AoS 2.0 and 40k 8th, now I need to go back to buying physical books. WTF. The worst is that you can't even get digital versions of things like chapter approved or the mission/crusade books or whatever they are - these books don't even come with a code, so you can't offload that information to the app. You have to carry them with you.
tneva82 wrote: I have played 22 years never owning every codex in some form. No you don't need
You need access to the rules of opposing factions.
If you want to play against someone with incomplete information and constantly referencing their book rather than just looking it up on your own time, I guess that’s up to you.
Lol. I don't do that. But then again i'm not silly enough to think 40k is some sort of sport or competive game(both which are logical impossibilites. If you think 40k is competive then you also believe in competive lottery and competive sleeping).
Also ancient method called talking with opponent seems to have been forgotten. I don't need to buy codex or even read myself. I can ask opponent and explain my rules he is unfamiliar. Shock. Talking with human! The horror!
Have they released the price of the codex? I skimmed through some reviews this morning on youtube and looked on the preorder/new release tab of the GW website and I don't see the price in USD. It's a hefty 264 page (iirc) hardcover book so I'm guessing it won't be cheap.
warboss wrote: Have they released the price of the codex? I skimmed through some reviews this morning on youtube and looked on the preorder/new release tab of the GW website and I don't see the price in USD. It's a hefty 264 page (iirc) hardcover book so I'm guessing it won't be cheap.
warboss wrote: Have they released the price of the codex? I skimmed through some reviews this morning on youtube and looked on the preorder/new release tab of the GW website and I don't see the price in USD. It's a hefty 264 page (iirc) hardcover book so I'm guessing it won't be cheap.
Both codices are $50 a pop, rather than the $40 that books were in 8E.
Remember that you won't see prices until 1pm Eastern for the US section, as that's when our preorders go up.
Interesting that the Necron 'dex is the same price as the Marine one when the latter was pricier in 8th owing to it's size (presumably). What's interesting is they specify how many Datasheets you get on the Marine page, but not the Necrons so I can only assume it's still much slimmer.
tneva82 wrote: I have played 22 years never owning every codex in some form. No you don't need
You need access to the rules of opposing factions.
If you want to play against someone with incomplete information and constantly referencing their book rather than just looking it up on your own time, I guess that’s up to you.
Lol. I don't do that. But then again i'm not silly enough to think 40k is some sort of sport or competive game(both which are logical impossibilites. If you think 40k is competive then you also believe in competive lottery and competive sleeping).
Also ancient method called talking with opponent seems to have been forgotten. I don't need to buy codex or even read myself. I can ask opponent and explain my rules he is unfamiliar. Shock. Talking with human! The horror!
I couldn’t be further from a tournament player, so frankly I have no idea what you’re talking about.
If anything I’d almost expect them to be less invested in the overall state of the game given all they need is to chase the next ridiculous netlist.
Kanluwen wrote: Serious question:
Why do you need to have your opponent's codex if they have one?
Problems shouldn't be coming up often enough that you need to babysit their stuff that badly.
Because I’d obviously want to be intimately familiar with what each army does if I’m changing my lists up nearly every week and want to be able to know how to do target priority, which is about 50% of the actual strategy to this game with board control making up the other half?
It also helps to have a decent grasp of how armies work when doing casual pickup games so you know when someone’s trying to cheat or rules lawyer, or has clearly brought some over the top competitive list and the kid gloves have to come off.
Kanluwen wrote: Both codices are $50 a pop, rather than the $40 that books were in 8E.
Remember that you won't see prices until 1pm Eastern for the US section, as that's when our preorders go up.
Thanks as I've been out of the GW buying loop for a couple of editions now. That's fairly reasonable for that size of a book from GW (moreso for the megamarine codex rather than the smaller other factions). I wasn't aware of the pricing time tables and thought it just goes up in the morning locally (hence why people post NZ/AUS stuff first). Any preview yet as to how much the chapter specific books will be?
Kanluwen wrote: Both codices are $50 a pop, rather than the $40 that books were in 8E.
Remember that you won't see prices until 1pm Eastern for the US section, as that's when our preorders go up.
Thanks as I've been out of the GW buying loop for a couple of editions now. That's fairly reasonable for that size of a book from GW (moreso for the megamarine codex rather than the smaller other factions). I wasn't aware of the pricing time tables and thought it just goes up in the morning locally (hence why people post NZ/AUS stuff first). Any preview yet as to how much the chapter specific books will be?
All of the existing ones are $40 but it remains to be seen for Space Wolves, Deathwatch, and both flavor of Angels. They'll likely actually feature some serious amounts of content unlike the others.
Usually we'll see prices on Tuesday or Wednesday via independent retailers. We got the prices for this release before the preorder announcement so it didn't stay 'out there' as much.
This is a huge shame and a big negative for the new edition.
The app remains garbage, and it's a poor imitation of having a proper copy of the codex. It still doesn't have a tablet layout! And it's just datasheets and special rules, none of the background or flavour text or any of that.
I tried to buy most of mine digitally because I do most of my reading on the move, and carrying around physical books is a pain in the ass. I won't be able to do that any more. I've certainly felt that with the core rulebook.
I really wonder if GW somehow thinks this will reduce piracy, and I suspect they will find they are completely wrong on that front and a high quality scan will turn up on Sunday morning.
Oh hey, they deleted my whole post. I’m not advocating piracy. I’m not telling people to do it. I’m just saying that If GW stops selling PDFs of their books, it won’t stop people from using them, it will just stop people from giving GW money for them. It’s a strictly realist statement of cause and effect.
One of the biggest fallacies surrounding piracy is that all of those people who pirate something would have bought it legitimately if piracy wasn’t an option.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: One of the biggest fallacies surrounding piracy is that all of those people who pirate something would have bought it legitimately if piracy wasn’t an option.
Dingdingding! We have a winner!
The people who were going to pirate the new books were going to do that anyway. People who were going to legitimately pay are going to complain, but they'll still pay so that they can still attend events and the like.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: One of the biggest fallacies surrounding piracy is that all of those people who pirate something would have bought it legitimately if piracy wasn’t an option.
Dingdingding! We have a winner!
The people who were going to pirate the new books were going to do that anyway. People who were going to legitimately pay are going to complain, but they'll still pay so that they can still attend events and the like.
How can you prove they didn’t scan their own purchased copies of the books to make transport lighter?
Is it really that difficult to imagine that both groups of people exist? Some pirates would have bought a digital version were it available, others wouldn't.
And nobody here can pretend to know where the line that divides them sits, unless you just happen to be chairman for the RIAA or something.
Super Ready wrote: Is it really that difficult to imagine that both groups of people exist? Some pirates would have bought a digital version were it available, others wouldn't.
And nobody here can pretend to know where the line that divides them sits, unless you just happen to be chairman for the RIAA or something.
Oh, I totally agree. It’s impossible to say. What is certainly true though is that there are people for whom having a digital copy is pretty much a necessity. As I’ve said previously, a wide range of accessibility issues can make the reading of a physical book sit somewhere between uncomfortable and impossible. These are legitimate customers who will now suffer in an attempt to stop piracy. Ironically, some of these people may now turn to piracy because GW refuse to sell them what they’d like to buy.
On a personal note, I was fully prepared to preorder both the marine and Necron codexes today in digital form. Instead, I’m buying nothing more from GW until they let me do that.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: One of the biggest fallacies surrounding piracy is that all of those people who pirate something would have bought it legitimately if piracy wasn’t an option.
Dingdingding! We have a winner!
The people who were going to pirate the new books were going to do that anyway. People who were going to legitimately pay are going to complain, but they'll still pay so that they can still attend events and the like.
How can you prove they didn’t scan their own purchased copies of the books to make transport lighter?
They don't have to prove whether they did or not. GW doesn't sell digital versions so events shouldn't allow them. It's always been a rule at larger events that you must have a valid copy of your Codex to hand.
To be honest the whole "I won't buy till it changes" attitude likely doesn't work all that well unless its a majority of customers walking out like that. Otherwise all that happens is you become invisible to GW.
Instead I'd say the best thing would be to get actual statements from people who are disabled and who do need a PDF to view content easily/clearly. Then bundle that up with a detailed message to GW (email) showing them the good that the PDF achieved for allowing greater accessibility to game and diversity of players.
Basically instead of throwing the toys out, show GW how important the digital codex access has been for people beyond convenience. Don't forget draft in AoS (battletomes) and other games since it will boost your signal.
Basically you're aiming to show GW the benefits, especially in situations that GW might not be fully aware of. As a secondary element you're also showing a body of people who GW could lose as customers in a polite way rather than a hostile way.
Overread wrote: To be honest the whole "I won't buy till it changes" attitude likely doesn't work all that well unless its a majority of customers walking out like that. Otherwise all that happens is you become invisible to GW.
Instead I'd say the best thing would be to get actual statements from people who are disabled and who do need a PDF to view content easily/clearly. Then bundle that up with a detailed message to GW (email) showing them the good that the PDF achieved for allowing greater accessibility to game and diversity of players.
Basically instead of throwing the toys out, show GW how important the digital codex access has been for people beyond convenience. Don't forget draft in AoS (battletomes) and other games since it will boost your signal.
Basically you're aiming to show GW the benefits, especially in situations that GW might not be fully aware of. As a secondary element you're also showing a body of people who GW could lose as customers in a polite way rather than a hostile way.
I hope I don’t come across as hostile. I’ve already posted on GW's Facebook pages explaining that I find it very difficult to read physical books. I’ve also drafted an email, which I’ll be sending them tomorrow (once I’ve had chance to reread and check it).
I’m totally serious about not buying their products though. There’s literally no reason for me to buy their physical books ... I can’t read them!
MonkeyBallistic wrote: One of the biggest fallacies surrounding piracy is that all of those people who pirate something would have bought it legitimately if piracy wasn’t an option.
Dingdingding! We have a winner!
The people who were going to pirate the new books were going to do that anyway. People who were going to legitimately pay are going to complain, but they'll still pay so that they can still attend events and the like.
This is a bit of stretch. It’s not one way or the other. When privacy was really skyrocketing in the mid to late 2000s it was before services like Netflix, Hulu, Apple Music, Spotify, etc were really established with streaming. Once they started taking off piracy did decrease. Probably because there were people were okay paying 10ish dollars a month for a bunch of stuff to watch/listen to, but not willing to pay 20 dollars for each movie or 15 for each CD they wanted to experience. Ironically as streaming services become less consolidated and every company starts their own service, piracy seems to be more common again. I’m not an expert on this by any means, but this seems to be what I have observed and read on the subject in passing.
I think there are many people who would probably pay the Azyr price of an Army book for a codex, but aren’t willing to spend more than twice that on a physical book they don’t want.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: I hope I don’t come across as hostile. I’ve already posted on GW's Facebook pages explaining that I find it very difficult to read physical books. I’ve also drafted an email, which I’ll be sending them tomorrow (once I’ve had chance to reread and check it).
Physical letters still carry the most weight, IMHO.
This isn’t about piracy, it’s about GW trying to force everyone into their own ecosystem in the app; they know enough to realise that if there’s a better, easier option, people will use that instead. However they’re not smart enough to realise that that’s effectively an admission that they’re app is inferior to the other options, which is going to piss off people who bought into those other systems.
Jadenim wrote: This isn’t about piracy, it’s about GW trying to force everyone into their own ecosystem in the app; they know enough to realise that if there’s a better, easier option, people will use that instead. However they’re not smart enough to realise that that’s effectively an admission that they’re app is inferior to the other options, which is going to piss off people who bought into those other systems.
If that's true, why not let us buy a PDF of the codex through the app? This is something the aos app already does so it shouldn't be difficult.
Jadenim wrote: This isn’t about piracy, it’s about GW trying to force everyone into their own ecosystem in the app; they know enough to realise that if there’s a better, easier option, people will use that instead. However they’re not smart enough to realise that that’s effectively an admission that they’re app is inferior to the other options, which is going to piss off people who bought into those other systems.
If that's true, why not let us buy a PDF of the codex through the app? This is something the aos app already does so it shouldn't be difficult.
Considering the state of the app?
it would probably burn if they'd implement that...
I prefer reading a physical book to a PDF of it, but it does seem a silly move to discontinue PDF/ePub/whatever-electronic-format of the Codexes when there's a proven demand to get legal copies of these products.
Heck, they should be the simplest to incorporate access to the app version of a 'dex - put the username/email address of your app account in during checkout, and job's a good 'un!
It's pretty obvious that this is a move to eliminate or reduce the second hand market for codices, because you can't be sure a second hand dex has already had its code used or not
EA actually tried something similar with their "Online Pass" initiative - basically you got a code with your game that enabled the online features, but if you bought it secondhand then you had to pay £10 for a replacement code. This was widely derided and dropped pretty quickly after it was introduced.
Obviously a digital codex is nowhere near as integral as the online elements to a video game like Battlefield 3, but the concept of retaining something only for first hand buyers is comparable. of course, EA still let you buy the pass afterwards, so they weren't so much trying to stifle the secondary market as profit from it.
As well as an uptake in piracy (which is a predictable consequence of removing something from the market that customers were previously used to having available), I can see this promoting a market for selling unused codes - the app doesn't seem all that popular, so there will be lots of people with the physical codex that don't want their code, so I wouldn't be surprised to see codes starting to pop up on ebay soon. this is going to rely on the honour system quite a bit, but could end up with a cheap way to access the rules, as well as allowing codex owners to recoup some of their costs.
I'll be sad to see the digital editions go, I didn't really use them on my phone but they were great for having on the PC for referencing or making army lists
For anyone who’s interested, here’s the email I sent to GW customer services.
Spoiler:
Dear GW,
Firstly, congratulations on the launch of the new edition of Warhammer 40K. Everything about this new edition, the writing, the art and the new miniatures, feels like an improvement. However, I’m contacting you to express my disappointment and dismay at your decision to discontinue pdf and ePub releases for 40K.
For hobbyists with certain Specific Learning Difficulties, or those with a visual impairment, a digital version of a codex or rule book can be essential to their enjoyment of the hobby. Now I am aware that the new codexes come with a code to unlock the rules in the WH40k App. It is just the rules though. It does not give access to the full version of the book complete with background, flavour text and art.
Personally, I have dyslexia. What that means for me is that reading printed text (especially large blocks of printed text on a full, roughly A4 page) is hard work. I can manage about one to two pages of a large book before I feel fatigued and have to stop. At no point is it something I would choose to do for fun. It’s especially hard when I’m tired, after a long day at work say, just the kind of time I’d like to be able to read for relaxation. So for me, buying my first iPad was liberating. When I’m able to zoom in on small blocks of text at a time, my poor brain doesn’t get overwhelmed in the same way and I’m able to spend hours reading for pleasure (at my admittedly slow pace).
Taking away the option of being able to buy a full, digital copy of a 40K book, feels as if a very enjoyable part of my hobby has now been denied to me. I’m sure the situation could be even worse for hobbyists with actual visual impairments. For many people, reading a page of printed text is a literal impossibility. I hope therefore, that you reconsider this decision. In your own words, “Warhammer is for everyone”. I trust that includes hobbyists with Specific Learning Difficulties and Visual Impairments.
I look forward to receiving your reply and I hope that some official announcement is made on this subject in the coming weeks.
Kind regards ...
I would urge everybody who has been negatively effected by this decision to email with their own experience.
This edition is another raging dumpster fire.
Stop trying to get me to pay you a subscription for something which doesn't really exist.
Yours,
Lord Damocles
Yep, that's bound to achieve something.
This may sound uncharacteristically positive, but GW does seem to be interested in customer feedback these days. If you feel strongly about GW dropping PDFs and want them back, writing them a genuine and polite E-Mail is probably not a bad idea. Sure, there's no guarantee that it will achieve anything, but depending on how invested (or not) GW is in using the absence of PDF codices as a tool to get people to use the app, it may be worth a try. Keep in mind that if the app doesn't sell or get downloaded enough GW only knows that something is wrong with it, but not what it is exactly that keeps people away from it. They might come to miss the revenue from digital codices after all, and there's no harm in telling them that.
Thank you for sharing your concerns with us in your recent letter. As you know, we are new "us" and new "us" has become world famous for listening to customer feedback and other positive stuff since we now produce tongue in cheek social media bits.
Our recent price adjustments during these challenging COVID times is just another example of listening to our biggest fans*. And have you seen the exciting things we've done with our post apocalyptic gang warfare game? We are close to downloadable, drip feed content there as we can currently get.
We've expanded on this model into our best-selling sci-fi game ---and hopefully soon into other games--- by adjusting the price of our force composition books and introducing an online app with a subscription fee. That way, even if you don't have time to buy new models and books, you will still be able to contribute to your favorite hoBBy. Exciting times!
We appreciate your feedback and will certainly take it into account in our future decisions about our awesome games and miniature releases. To tangibly show you our appreciation, please accept this $2 voucher good for 30 days if you spend $95 through our online store. Just think, you're $2 closer to free shipping already!
Yours,
James Automatedresponsio
*Our Stockholders, of course
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Sasori wrote: This is really disappointing. I thought for sure we'd at least be able to purchase a digital only copy for cheaper in the app like AoS.
Well, I'm not spending 50 bucks a pop for every codex. I'll just get them for the armies I use and acquire the others through various means.
Would it be possible for, say, two gaming buddies who want the same codex (one wants physical and the other wants the e-version) to actually make out-ish by buying the same book together? I get that it's a Jack Sprat proposal but if the e-guy pays, say, $15 then the physical book guy pays $35 (assuming they pay $50 MSRP) then it's sort of cheaper, kinda.
privateer4hire wrote: Would it be possible for, say, two gaming buddies who want the same codex (one wants physical and the other wants the e-version) to actually make out-ish by buying the same book together? I get that it's a Jack Sprat proposal but if the e-guy pays, say, $15 then the physical book guy pays $35 (assuming they pay $50 MSRP) then it's sort of cheaper, kinda.
Absolutely - but it looks like the e-version is JUST the rules. So no lore, and no pretty middle picture section. Not good enough, if you ask me.
Yeah, unless I'm missing something the app version that you unlock with the code isn't actually the codex, its ONLY the rules accessible within the apps craptastic UI.
Geez people, give GW a break, the person that had to do all the technical wizardry it took to make those PDFs might have died of COVID, it’ll take them years to find a replacement! it’s not like you can just click a button and export a PDF from Indesign or something. It’s going to take at least two price rises before they can afford to look at this as an option going forward.
chaos0xomega wrote: Yeah, unless I'm missing something the app version that you unlock with the code isn't actually the codex, its ONLY the rules accessible within the apps craptastic UI.
I have run into a good number of players who just want the rules and would happily buy a cheaper codex if all they lost was fluff and illustrations.
chaos0xomega wrote: Yeah, unless I'm missing something the app version that you unlock with the code isn't actually the codex, its ONLY the rules accessible within the apps craptastic UI.
I have run into a good number of players who just want the rules and would happily buy a cheaper codex if all they lost was fluff and illustrations.
They did that a few years ago (almost 5 now) with the Gamer's Edition Codex range (Faeit 212 link). I would guess it didn't work out for them as they stopped doing them.
So how do know exactly that the new gen codex code does not unlock an epub PDF and is a stripped down "rules only" version?
I'm quite happy personally. I really enjoy owing and reading physical books at home flicking through pages and felling the paper etc. I like paper books.
However I also appreciate transporting 5 books to a game is a pain. What I did not appreciate is that I would have to buy a 2nd epub pdf book at extortionate price on top of the over-priced physical one I already bought..
This seems like best of both worlds. Great for people who want to have both for the price of one. But if you dont get the whole pdf I guess its bad for people who only want the PDF. (then again you could in theory sell the paper version once you unlocked the code ?)
But, has it been confirmed you don't get the full PDF of the 9e book? Maybe its just the way 8E books are coz its a stop gap until their equivalent 9e books come out.
chaos0xomega wrote: Yeah, unless I'm missing something the app version that you unlock with the code isn't actually the codex, its ONLY the rules accessible within the apps craptastic UI.
I have run into a good number of players who just want the rules and would happily buy a cheaper codex if all they lost was fluff and illustrations.
Honestly I think it would be a mistake for GW to take that path. I agree that experienced gamers might well not need the lore and art, having collected much of it over the years; whilst those who are in it purely to play might feel there's no need for the fluff. But its also very evident that the fluff and hobby side of things is a huge draw to many people. That the stories and narrative and art create a picture in people's minds eye and often lures them back and keeps them in the game as other points to connect with outside of numbers and tactics.
Thing is as soon as you let gamers get all the material they need without the fluff side you potentially will get new gamers encouraged to get the cheaper rules only versions. Suddenly you might end up with a whole generation with very little connection to the art and lore side of the game. That's bad when you've a whole department specifically writing lore books and artists making high quality artwork for you.
I do agree that the big rule book should get a stripped down practical version because then we are talking not carrying several hundred pages of reference material; but keeping it as GW have with Indomitus and starting sets as a dirt cheap content feature of starter sets and duel packs and the like; that all really helps ensure as many new peopl end up with a copy as possible. Add that to the codex and you've a ripe setup to allow for enticing more people into the BL books and hanging around the hobby even more.
chaos0xomega wrote: Yeah, unless I'm missing something the app version that you unlock with the code isn't actually the codex, its ONLY the rules accessible within the apps craptastic UI.
I have run into a good number of players who just want the rules and would happily buy a cheaper codex if all they lost was fluff and illustrations.
Honestly I think it would be a mistake for GW to take that path. I agree that experienced gamers might well not need the lore and art, having collected much of it over the years; whilst those who are in it purely to play might feel there's no need for the fluff. But its also very evident that the fluff and hobby side of things is a huge draw to many people. That the stories and narrative and art create a picture in people's minds eye and often lures them back and keeps them in the game as other points to connect with outside of numbers and tactics.
Thing is as soon as you let gamers get all the material they need without the fluff side you potentially will get new gamers encouraged to get the cheaper rules only versions. Suddenly you might end up with a whole generation with very little connection to the art and lore side of the game. That's bad when you've a whole department specifically writing lore books and artists making high quality artwork for you.
I do agree that the big rule book should get a stripped down practical version because then we are talking not carrying several hundred pages of reference material; but keeping it as GW have with Indomitus and starting sets as a dirt cheap content feature of starter sets and duel packs and the like; that all really helps ensure as many new peopl end up with a copy as possible. Add that to the codex and you've a ripe setup to allow for enticing more people into the BL books and hanging around the hobby even more.
But you don't though do you? You have to get a nice collectors/hobbyist illustrated books with all the bells and whistles. Only now you get a FREE rules pdf you take to games. So anyone exposed to the hobby has to get a book full of fluff and art... Just its in paper.. and people who only want rules for their games.. get only rules.
Argive wrote: So how do know exactly that the new gen codex code does not unlock an epub PDF and is a stripped down "rules only" version?
I'm quite happy personally. I really enjoy owing and reading physical books at home flicking through pages and felling the paper etc. I like paper books.
However I also appreciate transporting 5 books to a game is a pain. What I did not appreciate is that I would have to buy a 2nd epub pdf book at extortionate price on top of the over-priced physical one I already bought..
This seems like best of both worlds. Great for people who want to have both for the price of one. But if you dont get the whole pdf I guess its bad for people who only want the PDF. (then again you could in theory sell the paper version once you unlocked the code ?)
But, has it been confirmed you don't get the full PDF of the 9e book? Maybe its just the way 8E books are coz its a stop gap until their equivalent 9e books come out.
Gw themselves confirmed they don't plan to offer digital only codexes.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with providing digital rules in the app providing it works well. Unfortunately the app doesn't work well right now.
The problem is that gw is taking away choice from players. They have managed to turn what should have been a nice positive step into a negative. I like paper books too but unfortunately it doesn't fit with my lifestyle. I live in a small house with a limited amount of storage space, most of which has been given over to gw miniatures. Being able to have a dozen codexes and battletomes stored on my iPad so that I can enjoy the lore and art of any book I choose while I'm on my lunch break at work has been great.
The fact that gw want to prevent that from happening is baffling.
Then there is the environmental impact to consider especially with books that get replaced every few years.
As for the idea of selling the physical book it's hardly a good advertisement for the product. Aside from the astronomical prices here in Japan, this is the worst decision I have seen gw make for a long time.
Argive wrote: So how do know exactly that the new gen codex code does not unlock an epub PDF and is a stripped down "rules only" version?
I'm quite happy personally. I really enjoy owing and reading physical books at home flicking through pages and felling the paper etc. I like paper books.
However I also appreciate transporting 5 books to a game is a pain. What I did not appreciate is that I would have to buy a 2nd epub pdf book at extortionate price on top of the over-priced physical one I already bought..
This seems like best of both worlds. Great for people who want to have both for the price of one. But if you dont get the whole pdf I guess its bad for people who only want the PDF. (then again you could in theory sell the paper version once you unlocked the code ?)
But, has it been confirmed you don't get the full PDF of the 9e book? Maybe its just the way 8E books are coz its a stop gap until their equivalent 9e books come out.
Gw themselves confirmed they don't plan to offer digital only codexes.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with providing digital rules in the app providing it works well. Unfortunately the app doesn't work well right now.
The problem is that gw is taking away choice from players. They have managed to turn what should have been a nice positive step into a negative.
As for the idea of selling the physical book it's hardly a good advertisement for the product. Aside from the astronomical prices here in Japan, this is the worst decision I have seen gw make for a long time.
Ok but does this mean therw wont be a digital version free with the physical book? All im saying is do we know for sure necron and marine codexes will be rules only ? 8e stuff makes sense to be rules only. But does this extend to new books ? Im saying I dont know. I haven't been paying much attention recently so I have no idea.
Coz if you do get a digital book with the physcial one (as it should be IMO) then you can use the code, and bin your physical book.. I can see that being an issue but im sure people would be selling codes if they are happy with p-physical book if it means they get to recoup most of the money.
Argive wrote: So how do know exactly that the new gen codex code does not unlock an epub PDF and is a stripped down "rules only" version?
Ok but does this mean therw wont be a digital version free with the physical book? All im saying is do we know for sure necron and marine codexes will be rules only ? 8e stuff makes sense to be rules only. But does this extend to new books ? Im saying I dont know. I haven't been paying much attention recently so I have no idea.
Coz if you do get a digital book with the physcial one (as it should be IMO) then you can use the code, and bin your physical book.. I can see that being an issue but im sure people would be selling codes if they are happy with p-physical book if it means they get to recoup most of the money.
As I said before gw confirmed on Facebook that there will not be a pdf at all. If you back in the thread you can see the direct quote. It is pretty explicit.
In short, all the rules for your army in Warhammer 40,000: The App! You’ll get every new and updated datasheet from your codex (more than 140 across both codexes), plus Detachment Abilities, faction rules, Relics, Stratagems, Warlord Traits, and any other rules which apply to your army.
Argive wrote: All im saying is do we know for sure necron and marine codexes will be rules only ?
this is what GW said that will be with the App
buy the physical book to get a code to get the rules from that book in the App
no full digital codex, no other option to just buy the digital rules for the App
might change in future if GW realise that it was not their best idea, but for now this is what we are going to get (and it was advertised that way right from the beginning)
I really wouldn't quote greedy a-hole whose recent anti-consumer practices make GW look downright saintly. Unless you want GW to try to transition their whole range from plastic to failcast and institute mandatory payments for using paints other than official GW ones, as well as attempt to abuse their monopolistic position to force people to paint not with brushes, but with fingers (using Citadel Gloves) which is about what that idiot attempted to do...
Gabe is all those things.
He's also right, people care way WAY more about service issues than they do monopolistic practices or blatant greed.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: One of the biggest fallacies surrounding piracy is that all of those people who pirate something would have bought it legitimately if piracy wasn’t an option.
Dingdingding! We have a winner!
The people who were going to pirate the new books were going to do that anyway. People who were going to legitimately pay are going to complain, but they'll still pay so that they can still attend events and the like.
this actually is not, in fact, strictly true.
There are people who pirate because they will always pirate. There are people who pirate because they have no legitimate way to access something. And there are people who pirate due to use of access. And this is, in fact, measurable and has been measured. Increasingly onerous DRM increases the ratio of piracy to legitimate purchase.
Tightening DRM doesn't stop piracy, if the DRM is onerous to users, it supports piracy.
Honestly, I think its more about keeping up FLGS relations than anything. Like it or not, rulebooks have always been one of the few things that stores can count on being rewarded for keeping an active playgroup going. Model releases are always limited in scope and existing player purchases dwindle over time but codexes sell and are easy to keep in stock and on shelves. I've known stores that have playspace for the game that only really stock the codexes.
We've seen the flip side too, where rulebooks losing their necessity hasn't hurt the players at all because there ARE better alternatives, but without them we see those games stop seeing retail support and struggle to attract new players. As much as I despise the codex system, I do have to wonder if its actually somewhat necessary for a game to remain healthy in the long run.
chaos0xomega wrote: Yeah, unless I'm missing something the app version that you unlock with the code isn't actually the codex, its ONLY the rules accessible within the apps craptastic UI.
I have run into a good number of players who just want the rules and would happily buy a cheaper codex if all they lost was fluff and illustrations.
Yep, that same mentality is part of what drove away casual players from warmachine and turned its community into a competitive cesspool. GW is quite right to not entertain a "rules only" style release.
I can't justify buying a codex in 2020. It's a too outdated method.
Agreed. I don't have the space for them in my dwelling, especially given the fact that I collect pretty much every faction currently in the game aside from the specialty loyalist marines (Blood Angels, Space Woles, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, etc. I only have standard codex marines). I am what you would call a "whale", and I'm seriously considering just not buying rules.
chaos0xomega wrote: Yeah, unless I'm missing something the app version that you unlock with the code isn't actually the codex, its ONLY the rules accessible within the apps craptastic UI.
I have run into a good number of players who just want the rules and would happily buy a cheaper codex if all they lost was fluff and illustrations.
Yep, that same mentality is part of what drove away casual players from warmachine and turned its community into a competitive cesspool. GW is quite right to not entertain a "rules only" style release.
Hm... they have entertained it, tbh. Only they have put a hurdle of "with your rules purchase for the app, you also get a book. Use it as a doorstop".
I mean, it's not like they can force them to read them or anything. They can just force them to pay full price for it.
chaos0xomega wrote: Yeah, unless I'm missing something the app version that you unlock with the code isn't actually the codex, its ONLY the rules accessible within the apps craptastic UI.
I have run into a good number of players who just want the rules and would happily buy a cheaper codex if all they lost was fluff and illustrations.
Yep, that same mentality is part of what drove away casual players from warmachine and turned its community into a competitive cesspool. GW is quite right to not entertain a "rules only" style release.
Hm... they have entertained it, tbh. Only they have put a hurdle of "with your rules purchase for the app, you also get a book. Use it as a doorstop".
Right, the point is that there is no way for a player to pay *less* in order to get rules-only content. They still need to buy the full rulebook, with fluff and all.
What happened with warmachine was privateer gave people the option to purchase all the rules for their faction, updated in perpetuity until the next edition for something like $5-10 OR you could basically buy all the factions with the same deal for like $60-80. By comparison, each factions main rulebook which contained fluff, artwork, etc. was like $40, and then each subsequent expansion rulebook was also another $40 - but unlike the faction rulebook, the expansion rulebook would only ever contain like 5-10 pages worth of rules for your faction, because those books split rules across all factions instead of just focusing on one.
As you can imagine, it was phenomenally more expensive and less convenient to buy the books than to buy the "rules only" releases, as a result pretty much everyone just bought the rules only option, even a lot of people who enjoyed the fluff and storylines, etc. Only a handful bothered with the books, to the point that Privateer Press discontinued them almost entirely because they were losing money producing them as a result of so many people simply not buying them. Over time this caused a divorce between the narrative and the game, which resulted in casual players losing interest in it as the community became 100% game focused (not that the narrative/hobby side of things was ever particularly big to begin with, but it was at least there), and eventually when 40k started picking back up again all those guys rushed back to it.
I'd argue that PP didn't make one choice that changed things - it was a collection of ideas and approaches that, each on their own was a minor impact, but collected together resulted in a shift.
Overread wrote: I'd argue that PP didn't make one choice that changed things - it was a collection of ideas and approaches that, each on their own was a minor impact, but collected together resulted in a shift.
I'd argue that MkIII not being good on release is what drove most people away. I hear they've pretty much No Man's Sky'd the actual rules, but for most people it's too late, especially with the near End Times level change the Infernals brought.
Overread wrote: I'd argue that PP didn't make one choice that changed things - it was a collection of ideas and approaches that, each on their own was a minor impact, but collected together resulted in a shift.
I'd argue that MkIII not being good on release is what drove most people away. I hear they've pretty much No Man's Sky'd the actual rules, but for most people it's too late, especially with the near End Times level change the Infernals brought.
Guild Ball killed em, but still ended officially before they did.
Overread wrote: I'd argue that PP didn't make one choice that changed things - it was a collection of ideas and approaches that, each on their own was a minor impact, but collected together resulted in a shift.
I'd argue that MkIII not being good on release is what drove most people away. I hear they've pretty much No Man's Sky'd the actual rules, but for most people it's too late, especially with the near End Times level change the Infernals brought.
Guild Ball killed em, but still ended officially before they did.
Not sure I can agree. Since MkIII has released, I've yet to actually see or hear about people PLAY Guild Ball in the 4 states I've lived. Most former Warmahordies I've met went back to 40K.
Guild Ball was very much advertised here als WM/H for people with less spare time and nearly the whole WM/H community played it (either as their only game or next to WM/H)
Overread wrote: I'd argue that PP didn't make one choice that changed things - it was a collection of ideas and approaches that, each on their own was a minor impact, but collected together resulted in a shift.
I'd argue that MkIII not being good on release is what drove most people away. I hear they've pretty much No Man's Sky'd the actual rules, but for most people it's too late, especially with the near End Times level change the Infernals brought.
Warmachine was on its way out before MkIII hit. At the tail end of Mk2 I was buying thousands of dollars of brand new Warmachine for 60-80% off from stores that were discontinuing support for the range and places like miniature market that were cleaning out their distributors inventory for pennies on the dollar. The game had stopped selling well before it became obvious to most people.
As far as Guild Ball, I've never seen it played once. I'm not convinced it had anything to do with WMHDs demise.
I'd argue that PP didn't make one choice that changed things - it was a collection of ideas and approaches that, each on their own was a minor impact, but collected together resulted in a shift.
You're right, there was no one issue, but I would say that doubling down on gameplay (and competitive gameplay at that) and quietly withdrawing the narrative/fluff aspects of the setting had a negative impact on the community that primed it to implode.
There was a very vocal group who left WM for Guild Ball. Guild Ball basically took one core mechanics of WM, Focus allocation, and built a new game around it. The year it came out (or the year after? I dunno, super early on) they rented a big conference room in the same hotel Warmachine Weekend was being held on the same weekend. It itself didn’t make a Huge dent in Warmachine, but it did contribute to their lull in a conspicuous way, and caused Privateer Press to panic release MK3 early before it was finished. And unfinished it blatantly was, which greatly accelerated their decline. Shortly there after GW entered their happy PR phase, which gave people an excuse to return to that game.
As far as fluffless rules, not a huge fan. When PP did that and stopped doing the big books with the storyline progression, the fluff mostly died for me. They put the fluff in novels, which were all so heavily Cignar focused and my faction just stopped getting real updates.
So yeah, I don’t want to have to buy physical books. AoS and 8th edition (and so many other games) trained me in how nice it is to have digital iBooks/PDFs of everything and now they’re pulling the rug out and backtracking and I don’t like it and won’t participate in it.
Guild ball did the pure competition play better, and so WM's shift to more competitive focus but with flubbing the first release saw the competitive people go to guild ball, while the warhammer 8th renaissance recaptured a lot of neckbeards mad at how busted 7th was.
But WM had issues wince its page 13 days, that set the tone for that community that has plagued it since and I am not sure PP has the money to survive the dramatic shift required to purge that kind of mindset from their games.
stratigo wrote: Guild ball did the pure competition play better, and so WM's shift to more competitive focus but with flubbing the first release saw the competitive people go to guild ball, while the warhammer 8th renaissance recaptured a lot of neckbeards mad at how busted 7th was.
But WM had issues wince its page 13 days, that set the tone for that community that has plagued it since and I am not sure PP has the money to survive the dramatic shift required to purge that kind of mindset from their games.
It's Pg5 and anyone that actually took it seriously instead of the tongue in cheek it was actually written in tended to be pushed out of most gaming communities very quick. Yes, Internet Tough Guys loved to throw around Pg5 as an excuse, but again, that's because they were incapable of being able to tell it was sarcasm and tended to be the same "Ummm, ackshually..." neck beards that ruined the Star Wars fandom.
stratigo wrote: Guild ball did the pure competition play better, and so WM's shift to more competitive focus but with flubbing the first release saw the competitive people go to guild ball, while the warhammer 8th renaissance recaptured a lot of neckbeards mad at how busted 7th was.
But WM had issues wince its page 13 days, that set the tone for that community that has plagued it since and I am not sure PP has the money to survive the dramatic shift required to purge that kind of mindset from their games.
It's Pg5 and anyone that actually took it seriously instead of the tongue in cheek it was actually written in tended to be pushed out of most gaming communities very quick. Yes, Internet Tough Guys loved to throw around Pg5 as an excuse, but again, that's because they were incapable of being able to tell it was sarcasm and tended to be the same "Ummm, ackshually..." neck beards that ruined the Star Wars fandom.
stratigo wrote: Guild ball did the pure competition play better, and so WM's shift to more competitive focus but with flubbing the first release saw the competitive people go to guild ball, while the warhammer 8th renaissance recaptured a lot of neckbeards mad at how busted 7th was.
But WM had issues wince its page 13 days, that set the tone for that community that has plagued it since and I am not sure PP has the money to survive the dramatic shift required to purge that kind of mindset from their games.
It's Pg5 and anyone that actually took it seriously instead of the tongue in cheek it was actually written in tended to be pushed out of most gaming communities very quick. Yes, Internet Tough Guys loved to throw around Pg5 as an excuse, but again, that's because they were incapable of being able to tell it was sarcasm and tended to be the same "Ummm, ackshually..." neck beards that ruined the Star Wars fandom.
But they still very much existed and like, one of those dudes will sour a community and drive anyone not like themselves away until the entire community is just like him. Gatekeepres and bigots damage communities until the space resembles only what they want unless they are hard stopped.
stratigo wrote: Guild ball did the pure competition play better, and so WM's shift to more competitive focus but with flubbing the first release saw the competitive people go to guild ball, while the warhammer 8th renaissance recaptured a lot of neckbeards mad at how busted 7th was.
But WM had issues wince its page 13 days, that set the tone for that community that has plagued it since and I am not sure PP has the money to survive the dramatic shift required to purge that kind of mindset from their games.
It's Pg5 and anyone that actually took it seriously instead of the tongue in cheek it was actually written in tended to be pushed out of most gaming communities very quick. Yes, Internet Tough Guys loved to throw around Pg5 as an excuse, but again, that's because they were incapable of being able to tell it was sarcasm and tended to be the same "Ummm, ackshually..." neck beards that ruined the Star Wars fandom.
I'm feeling a tad burned out from the rate of edition changes, which is ironic given back in the 'good old days' we pined for a release schedule like we have now. Even my 12-year son is annoyed that he might need to buy new codexes soon, again.
It's Pg5 and anyone that actually took it seriously instead of the tongue in cheek it was actually written in tended to be pushed out of most gaming communities very quick. Yes, Internet Tough Guys loved to throw around Pg5 as an excuse, but again, that's because they were incapable of being able to tell it was sarcasm and tended to be the same "Ummm, ackshually..." neck beards that ruined the Star Wars fandom.
I've heard way too many horror stories of potential new Warmachine players getting absolutely SLAMMED in their very first demo game to believe that local communities did anything to push out those super competitive "takes Page 5 seriously" players. Yeah it was absolutely meant to be tongue in cheek, but keep in mind that a lot of people can't read subtlety at all. It doesn't help that Warmachine's rules and interactions punish even small mistakes and that the game had a very, very steep learning curve.
As for the codexes no longer being available in pdf or ePub format, that's a serious accessibility issue, even if you do get the rules and datasheets via the app once you buy the physical book. I know plenty of people with serious vision issues, and being able to zoom in and read text at whatever size most helps you out is invaluable.
I can’t read the small print in the 40K books under anything less than perfect bright daylight, and even then... not being able to buy the digital book is a real slap in the face.
Mr_Rose wrote: Very disappointed that the unlocked rules in the app don’t even have hotlinks or rollover summaries.
Also, I can’t seem to find the points either.
Won’t have points till they put the army builder in.
Mostly I’m not happy about the lack of links and cross-references. That’s like one of the most significant advantages ebooks have and they just haven’t bothered.
Mr_Rose wrote: Very disappointed that the unlocked rules in the app don’t even have hotlinks or rollover summaries.
Also, I can’t seem to find the points either.
Won’t have points till they put the army builder in.
They totally do have points! I had heard it was not part of the data sheets but now that I’ve got mine and have time to check it out I apparently heard wrong.
Here’s a complaint though, unit data sheets don’t list all their weapons, only the ones that cost points to upgrade to.
AduroT wrote: They totally do have points! I had heard it was not part of the data sheets but now that I’ve got mine and have time to check it out I apparently heard wrong.
Here’s a complaint though, unit data sheets don’t list all their weapons, only the ones that cost points to upgrade to.
I only have necron codex but have not noticed this. Could you give an example data sheet of where it happens?
For instance I am looking at necron Warriors and the options for Gauss Flayers and Gauss reapers are both there on the datasheet. Both cost 0pts, and flayers are the default, reaoers are the 'upgrade'
To combat pollution & deforestation government should force companies to make products available as PDFs and at lower prices than paper based on the production costs. Maybe a 6 month period between paper release and pdf, but it should be mandated.
Yes yes "big gubmint". Corporations won't act responsibly on their own, so they have to be forced to.
I'd carve a cup out of a grain of sand to catch all the tears I'd shed for GW over this intrusion into their corporate rights.
AduroT wrote: They totally do have points! I had heard it was not part of the data sheets but now that I’ve got mine and have time to check it out I apparently heard wrong.
Here’s a complaint though, unit data sheets don’t list all their weapons, only the ones that cost points to upgrade to.
I only have necron codex but have not noticed this. Could you give an example data sheet of where it happens?
For instance I am looking at necron Warriors and the options for Gauss Flayers and Gauss reapers are both there on the datasheet. Both cost 0pts, and flayers are the default, reaoers are the 'upgrade'
Every space marine data sheet. They list the weapons you have, and list the weapon options you can take, but only give the rules for weapons that cost more than 0pts. If it costs 0pts, no weapon profile. If it costs points to upgrade, full weapon profile.
Matt Swain wrote: To combat pollution & deforestation government should force companies to make products available as PDFs and at lower prices than paper based on the production costs. Maybe a 6 month period between paper release and pdf, but it should be mandated.
Yes yes "big gubmint". Corporations won't act responsibly on their own, so they have to be forced to.
I'd carve a cup out of a grain of sand to catch all the tears I'd shed for GW over this intrusion into their corporate rights.
except it's not GW who'd be harmed by this, but small companies
AduroT wrote: They totally do have points! I had heard it was not part of the data sheets but now that I’ve got mine and have time to check it out I apparently heard wrong.
Here’s a complaint though, unit data sheets don’t list all their weapons, only the ones that cost points to upgrade to.
I only have necron codex but have not noticed this. Could you give an example data sheet of where it happens?
For instance I am looking at necron Warriors and the options for Gauss Flayers and Gauss reapers are both there on the datasheet. Both cost 0pts, and flayers are the default, reaoers are the 'upgrade'
Every space marine data sheet. They list the weapons you have, and list the weapon options you can take, but only give the rules for weapons that cost more than 0pts. If it costs 0pts, no weapon profile. If it costs points to upgrade, full weapon profile.
I'm seeing the same thing. Assault Intercessors do not list the Heavy Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword in the profile. To top it off, those entries do not exist in the weapon section either, so if you want to know what they did you'd still need the physical book.
AduroT wrote: They totally do have points! I had heard it was not part of the data sheets but now that I’ve got mine and have time to check it out I apparently heard wrong.
Here’s a complaint though, unit data sheets don’t list all their weapons, only the ones that cost points to upgrade to.
I only have necron codex but have not noticed this. Could you give an example data sheet of where it happens?
For instance I am looking at necron Warriors and the options for Gauss Flayers and Gauss reapers are both there on the datasheet. Both cost 0pts, and flayers are the default, reaoers are the 'upgrade'
Every space marine data sheet. They list the weapons you have, and list the weapon options you can take, but only give the rules for weapons that cost more than 0pts. If it costs 0pts, no weapon profile. If it costs points to upgrade, full weapon profile.
I'm seeing the same thing. Assault Intercessors do not list the Heavy Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword in the profile. To top it off, those entries do not exist in the weapon section either, so if you want to know what they did you'd still need the physical book.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that a lot of the weapons werent listed under the weapons tab. If you search for them they’ll come up though.
AduroT wrote: They totally do have points! I had heard it was not part of the data sheets but now that I’ve got mine and have time to check it out I apparently heard wrong.
Here’s a complaint though, unit data sheets don’t list all their weapons, only the ones that cost points to upgrade to.
I only have necron codex but have not noticed this. Could you give an example data sheet of where it happens?
For instance I am looking at necron Warriors and the options for Gauss Flayers and Gauss reapers are both there on the datasheet. Both cost 0pts, and flayers are the default, reaoers are the 'upgrade'
Every space marine data sheet. They list the weapons you have, and list the weapon options you can take, but only give the rules for weapons that cost more than 0pts. If it costs 0pts, no weapon profile. If it costs points to upgrade, full weapon profile.
I'm seeing the same thing. Assault Intercessors do not list the Heavy Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword in the profile. To top it off, those entries do not exist in the weapon section either, so if you want to know what they did you'd still need the physical book.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that a lot of the weapons werent listed under the weapons tab. If you search for them they’ll come up though.
I searched them out and I get little locked icons and I cannot pull up the rules at all so it's still not helpful.
AduroT wrote: They totally do have points! I had heard it was not part of the data sheets but now that I’ve got mine and have time to check it out I apparently heard wrong.
Here’s a complaint though, unit data sheets don’t list all their weapons, only the ones that cost points to upgrade to.
I only have necron codex but have not noticed this. Could you give an example data sheet of where it happens?
For instance I am looking at necron Warriors and the options for Gauss Flayers and Gauss reapers are both there on the datasheet. Both cost 0pts, and flayers are the default, reaoers are the 'upgrade'
Every space marine data sheet. They list the weapons you have, and list the weapon options you can take, but only give the rules for weapons that cost more than 0pts. If it costs 0pts, no weapon profile. If it costs points to upgrade, full weapon profile.
I'm seeing the same thing. Assault Intercessors do not list the Heavy Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword in the profile. To top it off, those entries do not exist in the weapon section either, so if you want to know what they did you'd still need the physical book.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that a lot of the weapons werent listed under the weapons tab. If you search for them they’ll come up though.
I searched them out and I get little locked icons and I cannot pull up the rules at all so it's still not helpful.
Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the search feature only works if you pay the subscription.
kodos wrote: so the stats for the weapons for the codex you just paid for are hidden behind the subscription?
Yes. To be fair though I’m going to guess it’s a bug or mistake, since the Necron book apparently doesn’t do that it sounds like.
they had a long time to prepare that thing and it still does not work as it should?
just imagine what would have happend without Covid and the Codex being released a month or 2 earlier
but GW must be forgiven as multi-million $ company has not the money nor the time to release a working product, specially if it is one were they are the ones to set the time schedule for themselves (and it is not like they already offer a working product for a different game for a long time now, but I guess the greed for the extra money was worth the hassle)
kodos wrote: so the stats for the weapons for the codex you just paid for are hidden behind the subscription?
Yes. To be fair though I’m going to guess it’s a bug or mistake, since the Necron book apparently doesn’t do that it sounds like.
they had a long time to prepare that thing and it still does not work as it should?
just imagine what would have happend without Covid and the Codex being released a month or 2 earlier
but GW must be forgiven as multi-million $ company has not the money nor the time to release a working product, specially if it is one were they are the ones to set the time schedule for themselves (and it is not like they already offer a working product for a different game for a long time now, but I guess the greed for the extra money was worth the hassle)
I will continue to say that the thing that frustrates me the most about the 40k app is the fact Azyr exists, so we Know they can do it, they just chose not to.
Mr_Rose wrote: Search works fine for me and pulls up the heavy BP profile OK. Maybe update your app?
Do you have a paid subscription? The search works fine for me as well, it’s just a paid subscription only feature.
Something weird is going on there, then - I only have the free version, and on the core rules at least, the search works just fine. Or is it different for the Codexes?
Mr_Rose wrote: Search works fine for me and pulls up the heavy BP profile OK. Maybe update your app?
Do you have a paid subscription? The search works fine for me as well, it’s just a paid subscription only feature.
Something weird is going on there, then - I only have the free version, and on the core rules at least, the search works just fine. Or is it different for the Codexes?
...Ok I have no idea then. The search feature is/was advertised as a subscriber thing.
kodos wrote: so the stats for the weapons for the codex you just paid for are hidden behind the subscription?
Yes. To be fair though I’m going to guess it’s a bug or mistake, since the Necron book apparently doesn’t do that it sounds like.
they had a long time to prepare that thing and it still does not work as it should?
just imagine what would have happend without Covid and the Codex being released a month or 2 earlier
but GW must be forgiven as multi-million $ company has not the money nor the time to release a working product, specially if it is one were they are the ones to set the time schedule for themselves (and it is not like they already offer a working product for a different game for a long time now, but I guess the greed for the extra money was worth the hassle)
I will continue to say that the thing that frustrates me the most about the 40k app is the fact Azyr exists, so we Know they can do it, they just chose not to.
It shows the 2 divisions don't talk to eachother enough and barely know what the other is doing.
Same thing back when they released the mini-rulebooks for 8th edition/AoS. The AoS one was updated with all errata and generals handbook. The 40k was a strait copy of the original rulebook and out of date.
Their programme 'War Room' has every model/unit in the game cards available for a one off price for the length of an edition (currently averaging over 5 years) for about $80US
Or you can just buy individual factions for a few bucks.
Then you can review cards at your leisure or even in game.
Then you can make armies, play with the armies allocating damage and deaths, even running your army and opponent's army on the same device, access the current updated rules as a pdf.
Compared to GW it is spectacular.
Sure there is the odd bug but the current version (Mk2) is leaps and bounds ahead of the Mk1 version.
Their programme 'War Room' has every model/unit in the game cards available for a one off price for the length of an edition (currently averaging over 5 years) for about $80US
Or you can just buy individual factions for a few bucks.
Then you can review cards at your leisure or even in game.
Then you can make armies, play with the armies allocating damage and deaths, even running your army and opponent's army on the same device, access the current updated rules as a pdf.
Compared to GW it is spectacular.
Sure there is the odd bug but the current version (Mk2) is leaps and bounds ahead of the Mk1 version.
Also, when they Did jump to a new edition, if you had the previous edition’s all in one bundle, you got a discount when you purchased the new editions all in one bundle iirc.
Their programme 'War Room' has every model/unit in the game cards available for a one off price for the length of an edition (currently averaging over 5 years) for about $80US
Or you can just buy individual factions for a few bucks.
Then you can review cards at your leisure or even in game.
Then you can make armies, play with the armies allocating damage and deaths, even running your army and opponent's army on the same device, access the current updated rules as a pdf.
Compared to GW it is spectacular.
Sure there is the odd bug but the current version (Mk2) is leaps and bounds ahead of the Mk1 version.
I mean for AOS they have an app showing every warscroll for every unit for free. For £1 a month you can us the army builder, but there is also a better army builder on their site for free.
Doohicky wrote: Sounds like they needed up the data for sm codex. All other codex have all weapon options.
It's a screen up that they will hopefully fix soon.
Having said that, that's a pretty big QA miss to let that through
Even some copy paste (Im forced to assume) errors got through, like the gear for plasmancers ending mid sentence:
Matt Swain wrote: To combat pollution & deforestation government should force companies to make products available as PDFs and at lower prices than paper based on the production costs. Maybe a 6 month period between paper release and pdf, but it should be mandated.
Yes yes "big gubmint". Corporations won't act responsibly on their own, so they have to be forced to.
I'd carve a cup out of a grain of sand to catch all the tears I'd shed for GW over this intrusion into their corporate rights.
except it's not GW who'd be harmed by this, but small companies
Some people oppose any regulation of big businesses to protect the public because "NO! IT'LL HURT SMALL BUSINESSES!"
When someone proposes a regulation to protect small businesses from huge chain stores crushing them with predatory pricing and other anti competition practices the same people say "NO! THAT'S GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE IN THE FREE MARKET!"
Matt Swain wrote: To combat pollution & deforestation government should force companies to make products available as PDFs and at lower prices than paper based on the production costs. Maybe a 6 month period between paper release and pdf, but it should be mandated.
Yes yes "big gubmint". Corporations won't act responsibly on their own, so they have to be forced to.
I'd carve a cup out of a grain of sand to catch all the tears I'd shed for GW over this intrusion into their corporate rights.
If you want to combat 'deforestation', you want to sell more paper products.
Matt Swain wrote: To combat pollution & deforestation government should force companies to make products available as PDFs and at lower prices than paper based on the production costs. Maybe a 6 month period between paper release and pdf, but it should be mandated.
Yes yes "big gubmint". Corporations won't act responsibly on their own, so they have to be forced to.
I'd carve a cup out of a grain of sand to catch all the tears I'd shed for GW over this intrusion into their corporate rights.
If you want to combat 'deforestation', you want to sell more paper products.
What?! No, combating deforestation would mean more pdf, less paper, less trees cut down to make paper.
Matt Swain wrote: To combat pollution & deforestation government should force companies to make products available as PDFs and at lower prices than paper based on the production costs. Maybe a 6 month period between paper release and pdf, but it should be mandated.
Yes yes "big gubmint". Corporations won't act responsibly on their own, so they have to be forced to.
I'd carve a cup out of a grain of sand to catch all the tears I'd shed for GW over this intrusion into their corporate rights.
If you want to combat 'deforestation', you want to sell more paper products.
What?! No, combating deforestation would mean more pdf, less paper, less trees cut down to make paper.
More trees are taken care of and planted BECAUSE they are a value in production. There are more trees in north america today than there was 250 years ago. If society went paperless, vast swaths of trees would no longer have a use, and be cut down for farm lands, like what is happening in the amazon.
This is basic supply and demand. If you want MORE trees, you need to value(use) trees. If you want LESS trees, you need to devalue trees.
....
And yes, GW needs to sell PDFs only. It's the current year. They can sell both books and PDFs, both at full price, and people would have choice as to what they want to have for games.
Using more wood/paper is literally the one thing environmentalists are trying to do as it captures a significant portion of carbon from the atmosphere (assuming it's not then burned, so not for fuel).
The deforestation problem is predatory and illegal logging in places like Brazil, mostly to use as farmland. I don't think GW uses illegal paper from Brazil...
Also, increased demand for paper increases price of wood, which in turn increasing the viability of tree farms and sustainable logging. Go preach your feel good government policies on a dedicated forum perhaps?
Automatically Appended Next Post: On topic: PDFs would compete directly with the app, so they won't do it.
BuFFo wrote: More trees are taken care of and planted BECAUSE they are a value in production. There are more trees in north america today than there was 250 years ago. If society went paperless, vast swaths of trees would no longer have a use, and be cut down for farm lands, like what is happening in the amazon.
This is basic supply and demand. If you want MORE trees, you need to value(use) trees. If you want LESS trees, you need to devalue trees.
....
And yes, GW needs to sell PDFs only. It's the current year. They can sell both books and PDFs, both at full price, and people would have choice as to what they want to have for games.
That point might make any sense if regular forests or the Amazon were being cut for pulp. They are not. Paper production doesn't really have much of an impact on regular forests (almost all tress destined for pulp are cut from managed forests). Following the Amazon example, whether or not society goes paperless would have no impact whatsoever on logging operations there, because they want the space for cattle pastures and the logs for lumber and construction, not for paper.
Yes, the forest argument is nonsense. The biggest reason for GW to keep selling ePub digital codexes is that there is clearly a demand for them. Not everyone who wanted a digital codex is going to shrug their shoulders and buy the book instead.
Personally, 9th edition was going to the the one where I promised myself I’d make a big effort to get into 40K. Instead, I’m not buying a single book, I won’t be playing the game, I won’t be collecting an army, all because GW refuse to sell me a rule book and codexes in a form I can access.
KillerAngel wrote: Using more wood/paper is literally the one thing environmentalists are trying to do as it captures a significant portion of carbon from the atmosphere (assuming it's not then burned, so not for fuel).
If I recall correctly, human-planted "forests" of utility trees are actually horrible for the environment (shocking, monocultures being bad?! WHO KNEW!) because they support no ecosystem, and all the carbon trapped in them is released far more regularly than in natural growths because they're cut to schedule. There is no ethical consumption in capitalism.
Not that I’m getting into the morality tree debate.
But after a certain amount of time, old trees don’t do much for the environment and when many companies cut a tree and replant one, it’s actually better for the environment.
Not tree farms etc, don’t know about them, but just regular ol’ forests of trees.
Danny76 wrote: Not that I’m getting into the morality tree debate.
But after a certain amount of time, old trees don’t do much for the environment and when many companies cut a tree and replant one, it’s actually better for the environment.
Not tree farms etc, don’t know about them, but just regular ol’ forests of trees.
Yeah, I have to plead 'my bad' here the starting to bit about forests. I honestly believe that making things available as PDFs would help save trees by having fewer cut down to make paper. So someone says my intuitive position is wrong and then someone else says his counter intuitiuve position is wrong and we descend into the counter intuivitist game.
Here's a cartoon explaining the counter intuitivist game if you want to see it.
BTW I do agree that counter intuitive thinking is often valid and useful when dealing with complex multi factor issues , but when we start getting to the level of dueling counter intuivitism pretty much all hope of progress is lost.
So anyway a viewpoint i took as a given has been turned into a battle of counter intuivitists, maybe we should just drop the saving paper issue. I honestly just didn't see how saying saving trees by replacing paper with pdf was a good thing could become such an issue.
KillerAngel wrote: Using more wood/paper is literally the one thing environmentalists are trying to do as it captures a significant portion of carbon from the atmosphere (assuming it's not then burned, so not for fuel).
If I recall correctly, human-planted "forests" of utility trees are actually horrible for the environment (shocking, monocultures being bad?! WHO KNEW!) because they support no ecosystem, and all the carbon trapped in them is released far more regularly than in natural growths because they're cut to schedule.
Monocultures of trees are especially bad if the species in question are not native (so only used because their yields are larger, but local species may not be able to benefit from them). Planted monocultures of local tree species still support many birds and countless insects, although mixed forests are certainly better. As for the age of trees mentioned above; unfortunately some ecosystem functions are only provided by the oldest of trees, and it's no surprise that species relying on those are typically not doing well in areas "managed" by people.
DakkaDakka becoming a biological conference. 2020 sure is a strange year.
There is no ethical consumption in capitalism.
Well, just because multiple strategies cause harm to the environment doesn't mean some aren't far more harmful than others.
KillerAngel wrote: Using more wood/paper is literally the one thing environmentalists are trying to do as it captures a significant portion of carbon from the atmosphere (assuming it's not then burned, so not for fuel).
If I recall correctly, human-planted "forests" of utility trees are actually horrible for the environment (shocking, monocultures being bad?! WHO KNEW!) because they support no ecosystem, and all the carbon trapped in them is released far more regularly than in natural growths because they're cut to schedule.
Monocultures of trees are especially bad if the species in question are not native (so only used because their yields are larger, but local species may not be able to benefit from them). Planted monocultures of local tree species still support many birds and countless insects, although mixed forests are certainly better. As for the age of trees mentioned above; unfortunately some ecosystem functions are only provided by the oldest of trees, and it's no surprise that species relying on those are typically not doing well in areas "managed" by people.
DakkaDakka becoming a biological conference. 2020 sure is a strange year.
There is no ethical consumption in capitalism.
Well, just because multiple strategies cause harm to the environment doesn't mean some aren't far more harmful than others.
"DakkaDakka becoming a biological conference. 2020 sure is a strange year."
Well, i did find out some things about trees and the deeper, more complex issues of saving paper vs deforestation, even if it seemed like at least one person or another was paying the counter intuitivist game.
I also got to let people know about the counter intuitivist game.
So this thread was at least somewhat informative in various ways.
Plus your quip about 2020 being a strange year when dakkddakka hosts a minim biodiversity symposium was quite funny.
MonkeyBallistic wrote: The issue is that the app doesn’t contain the background and art. There are all kinds of reasons from visual impairments to dyslexia, why some people prefer to buy digital versions. GW just turned their back on those people.
And thus why some of us pirate the PDF codex/tombes for the 3 core games and give a digital pat on the should to the source!
We live in a digital world, for GW to still force upon us a physical product for the 3 core games that will be invalidated by errata and faq after 4 weeks is straight up cooprate greed of the worst kind.
(boxed games books are better as they only see an errata/faq once per year or so so i have no problems buying thouse)
Danny76 wrote: Not that I’m getting into the morality tree debate.
But after a certain amount of time, old trees don’t do much for the environment and when many companies cut a tree and replant one, it’s actually better for the environment.
Not tree farms etc, don’t know about them, but just regular ol’ forests of trees.
Actually it depends by what metrics you're measuring "good/bad". Removing an old tree can cause a surge in growth of the lower tier of the forest floor for a short period of time. Increased competition and general instability does create a positive net gain there. Of course one reason that they are so focused on that stage is often because damage to the ecosystems has resulted in a significant loss of that specific habitat (boundary/newgrowth) even stripping out of it (muntjac in the UK cause terrible damage to that segment of woodland).
That said old trees have incredible value still. First up they can provide habitats for different species than a younger tree or newly opened ground. Then as the tree starts to die you get a huge habitat for fungus, insects and other species. In fact our obsession with "cleaning woodlands" results in a catastrophic loss of deadwood habitats; natural breakdown in soils and such. Even the act of cutting the tree to create clearance and then harvesting the wood is an issue because you are removing nutrients and that deadwood from the system (though in many developed nations nutrient levels in many areas are artificially high as a result of run-off from farming).
I'm human-centric. I value humans, not the environment. Humans, to survive, must transform the environment to suit our needs. It may sound counter-intuitive, because you have to think about it, but if you want more trees, humans need to Value trees.
Whether Games Workshop uses PDFs or books is entirely irrelevant to the issue of trees, but since someone brought up the issue of trees incorrectly, I needed to correct him or her.
Once again, if you want this planet to be green, you have to be human centric (egoistic) and understand the hierarchy of the human value system and our need to transform the environment for survivial qua man.
I will gladly support trees by buying physical books.
BuFFo wrote: I'm human-centric. I value humans, not the environment. Humans, to survive, must transform the environment to suit our needs. It may sound counter-intuitive, because you have to think about it, but if you want more trees, humans need to Value trees.
Whilst I agree with your viewpoint that to protect the environment, mankind must find value within it - I'd argue that your viewpoint that you " value humans, not the environment" actually highlights one of the major failings of modern education. That it creates a concept of the "human and natural" worlds as being distinct and separate elements on the planet. When in reality there is no such division what so ever. Humanity is totally reliant on the environment; to value humanity is to in turn value the environment. A lack of education in the complexity of environmental interactions and the, often short term, viewpoint humans use to evaluate the environment and its use often results in huge negative impacts to humanity. A neat example is the strip cutting of forests for lumber - a great idea until lowland farmland and settlements are flooded year after year because of the loss of the rain-catching tree canopy and underlayers of the forest. That the loss of that huge buffer means water saturates the ground far quicker; leading to rapid increased run off and thus far greater river surges resulting in broken banks and far more regular flooding events in regions that, prior, would perhaps only have flooded in an extreme weather situation (eg a once in a 100 years event)
All good points lads, and apologies for my part in descending into 2020 madness (and what comes off as pretty snippy when I re-read it). I'll just say that I have a deep-science background (truthfully unrelated to agriculture whatsoever), and my points about trees are a wave-top summary of a growing scientific consensus (with a bit of econ101 thrown in) on improving the environment and sustainable living (which I'm a big supporter of, as well as free-market solutions to complex problems). You all bring up good points about the details though, and I encourage self-learning and research in these areas.
And *puts on cowboy voice* despite ya'll bein some tree-huggin Ur-O-Peein tyaaaapes, we can still be friends. Happy to discuss any scientific literature about the subject on another venue.
Back to the topic at hand if I may, a question to the PDF codex users: What's the issue with the free online resources for the codices? I notice places like Wahapedia have good online reference for when a book is too bulky. I always suggest supporting a company with dollars, but if you refuse to buy a hardcopy book, and can't purchase a PDF, is something like Wahapedia not sufficient? If not sufficient, what is needed for it to be ideal in your case?
Back to the topic at hand if I may, a question to the PDF codex users: What's the issue with the free online resources for the codices? I notice places like Wahapedia have good online reference for when a book is too bulky. I always suggest supporting a company with dollars, but if you refuse to buy a hardcopy book, and can't purchase a PDF, is something like Wahapedia not sufficient? If not sufficient, what is needed for it to be ideal in your case?
The issue for me is that, until this edition, I could enjoy the same experience as everyone else. I could see the pages as they appeared in the physical book. I could appreciate the layout, the art, the whole feeling of the physical book, just like everyone else. I could then zoom in so I could actually read the flipping thing!
Now, that has been taken away from me. I feel excluded.
Write to them, put in accessibility terms, remind them that they've done it before and to remove it could be interepreted as something the disability discrimination act would potentially have issues with
they might relent and bring them back (even if you might now have to launch it from within the app)
OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote: Write to them, put in accessibility terms, remind them that they've done it before and to remove it could be interepreted as something the disability discrimination act would potentially have issues with
they might relent and bring them back (even if you might now have to launch it from within the app)
I'd not perhaps go toward the whole "threatening them with the disability act" angle. I'd rather encourage them by showing support for and from lots of disabled players who directly benefit from the pdf release. Ergo instead of blackmail try encouragement. Chances are it will get more results.
I'm not suggesting writing it as a threat, more as a concerned fan (with the disability) who doesn't understand why they'd junk something they've already shown they could do
The issue for me is that, until this edition, I could enjoy the same experience as everyone else. I could see the pages as they appeared in the physical book. I could appreciate the layout, the art, the whole feeling of the physical book, just like everyone else. I could then zoom in so I could actually read the flipping thing!
Now, that has been taken away from me. I feel excluded.
I can see how that is frustrating, considering that even the app won't give you that experience either. I have a feeling that they assume (rightly or wrongly) that the players that want to read the lore buy the physical book, and the people who wanted easily referenced rules for gaming bought the PDFs. Ergo, removing PDFs with the introduction of the app, which potentially will make it even easier to reference rules during a game.
I don't know if their digital codices were locked down with DRM (the books don't seem to be), so the app is certainly an easier way to prevent sharing of digital files.
KillerAngel wrote: I don't know if their digital codices were locked down with DRM (the books don't seem to be), so the app is certainly an easier way to prevent sharing of digital files.
The normal ePubs didn't have DRM, the iBook ones had Apple's normal rubbish.
I know 8 players who are walking away from 40K because of this decision to stop releasing a digital codex. I will simply use BattleScribe for the time being until GW remove their head from their backside.
Were those 8 already wanting to walk away? It seems very extreme to dump hundreds of £/$ of armies and dozens and more of hours building and painting because you can't get the rules on your phone/tablet in a complete format.
Overread wrote: Were those 8 already wanting to walk away? It seems very extreme to dump hundreds of £/$ of armies and dozens and more of hours building and painting because you can't get the rules on your phone/tablet in a complete format.
Of course, it's not like they couldn't just use the minis to play older editions of the game or anything.
I mean, that would be preposterous (joking!)
Honestly, I don't play enough as it is. I was buying digital editions to read and collect, but I don't want physical ones. So well, that's one less buyer.
Overread wrote: Were those 8 already wanting to walk away? It seems very extreme to dump hundreds of £/$ of armies and dozens and more of hours building and painting because you can't get the rules on your phone/tablet in a complete format.
if you think about this, people can never quit a GW game as there is always a lot of money and time wasted if you leave
no matter what reason you might have
and no legal access to the rules is one of the better reasons
Overread wrote: Were those 8 already wanting to walk away? It seems very extreme to dump hundreds of £/$ of armies and dozens and more of hours building and painting because you can't get the rules on your phone/tablet in a complete format.
if you think about this, people can never quit a GW game as there is always a lot of money and time wasted if you leave
no matter what reason you might have
and no legal access to the rules is one of the better reasons
I hate to be the one who asks this, but where they leaving due to lack of LEGAL access to the rules?
Many people do like to be legal. If you leave no legal option for one such person, they can easily surmise the company doesn't actually want them as customers.
Karthicus wrote: I know 8 players who are walking away from 40K because of this decision to stop releasing a digital codex. I will simply use BattleScribe for the time being until GW remove their head from their backside.
Point them in the direction of Grim Dark Future from One Page Rules. Or just tell them that the 8 of them together is a solid play group for continuing to play 8th edition.
No, combating deforestation would mean more pdf, less paper, less trees cut down to make paper.
, but when we start getting to the level of dueling counter intuivitism pretty much all hope of progress is lost.
(joking!)
