Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

To combat pollution & deforestation government should force companies to make products available as PDFs and at lower prices than paper based on the production costs. Maybe a 6 month period between paper release and pdf, but it should be mandated.

Yes yes "big gubmint". Corporations won't act responsibly on their own, so they have to be forced to.

I'd carve a cup out of a grain of sand to catch all the tears I'd shed for GW over this intrusion into their corporate rights.

Doohicky wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
They totally do have points! I had heard it was not part of the data sheets but now that I’ve got mine and have time to check it out I apparently heard wrong.

Here’s a complaint though, unit data sheets don’t list all their weapons, only the ones that cost points to upgrade to.

I only have necron codex but have not noticed this. Could you give an example data sheet of where it happens?

For instance I am looking at necron Warriors and the options for Gauss Flayers and Gauss reapers are both there on the datasheet. Both cost 0pts, and flayers are the default, reaoers are the 'upgrade'

Every space marine data sheet. They list the weapons you have, and list the weapon options you can take, but only give the rules for weapons that cost more than 0pts. If it costs 0pts, no weapon profile. If it costs points to upgrade, full weapon profile.

 Matt Swain wrote:
To combat pollution & deforestation government should force companies to make products available as PDFs and at lower prices than paper based on the production costs. Maybe a 6 month period between paper release and pdf, but it should be mandated.

Yes yes "big gubmint". Corporations won't act responsibly on their own, so they have to be forced to.

I'd carve a cup out of a grain of sand to catch all the tears I'd shed for GW over this intrusion into their corporate rights.

except it's not GW who'd be harmed by this, but small companies

 AduroT wrote:

Doohicky wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
They totally do have points! I had heard it was not part of the data sheets but now that I’ve got mine and have time to check it out I apparently heard wrong.

Here’s a complaint though, unit data sheets don’t list all their weapons, only the ones that cost points to upgrade to.

I only have necron codex but have not noticed this. Could you give an example data sheet of where it happens?

For instance I am looking at necron Warriors and the options for Gauss Flayers and Gauss reapers are both there on the datasheet. Both cost 0pts, and flayers are the default, reaoers are the 'upgrade'

Every space marine data sheet. They list the weapons you have, and list the weapon options you can take, but only give the rules for weapons that cost more than 0pts. If it costs 0pts, no weapon profile. If it costs points to upgrade, full weapon profile.

I'm seeing the same thing. Assault Intercessors do not list the Heavy Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword in the profile. To top it off, those entries do not exist in the weapon section either, so if you want to know what they did you'd still need the physical book.

 Mulletdude wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

Doohicky wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
They totally do have points! I had heard it was not part of the data sheets but now that I’ve got mine and have time to check it out I apparently heard wrong.

Here’s a complaint though, unit data sheets don’t list all their weapons, only the ones that cost points to upgrade to.

I only have necron codex but have not noticed this. Could you give an example data sheet of where it happens?

For instance I am looking at necron Warriors and the options for Gauss Flayers and Gauss reapers are both there on the datasheet. Both cost 0pts, and flayers are the default, reaoers are the 'upgrade'

Every space marine data sheet. They list the weapons you have, and list the weapon options you can take, but only give the rules for weapons that cost more than 0pts. If it costs 0pts, no weapon profile. If it costs points to upgrade, full weapon profile.

I'm seeing the same thing. Assault Intercessors do not list the Heavy Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword in the profile. To top it off, those entries do not exist in the weapon section either, so if you want to know what they did you'd still need the physical book.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that a lot of the weapons werent listed under the weapons tab. If you search for them they’ll come up though.

 AduroT wrote:

 Mulletdude wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

Doohicky wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
They totally do have points! I had heard it was not part of the data sheets but now that I’ve got mine and have time to check it out I apparently heard wrong.

Here’s a complaint though, unit data sheets don’t list all their weapons, only the ones that cost points to upgrade to.

I only have necron codex but have not noticed this. Could you give an example data sheet of where it happens?

For instance I am looking at necron Warriors and the options for Gauss Flayers and Gauss reapers are both there on the datasheet. Both cost 0pts, and flayers are the default, reaoers are the 'upgrade'

Every space marine data sheet. They list the weapons you have, and list the weapon options you can take, but only give the rules for weapons that cost more than 0pts. If it costs 0pts, no weapon profile. If it costs points to upgrade, full weapon profile.

I'm seeing the same thing. Assault Intercessors do not list the Heavy Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword in the profile. To top it off, those entries do not exist in the weapon section either, so if you want to know what they did you'd still need the physical book.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that a lot of the weapons werent listed under the weapons tab. If you search for them they’ll come up though.

I searched them out and I get little locked icons and I cannot pull up the rules at all so it's still not helpful.

 Mulletdude wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

 Mulletdude wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

Doohicky wrote:

 AduroT wrote:
They totally do have points! I had heard it was not part of the data sheets but now that I’ve got mine and have time to check it out I apparently heard wrong.

Here’s a complaint though, unit data sheets don’t list all their weapons, only the ones that cost points to upgrade to.

I only have necron codex but have not noticed this. Could you give an example data sheet of where it happens?

For instance I am looking at necron Warriors and the options for Gauss Flayers and Gauss reapers are both there on the datasheet. Both cost 0pts, and flayers are the default, reaoers are the 'upgrade'

Every space marine data sheet. They list the weapons you have, and list the weapon options you can take, but only give the rules for weapons that cost more than 0pts. If it costs 0pts, no weapon profile. If it costs points to upgrade, full weapon profile.

I'm seeing the same thing. Assault Intercessors do not list the Heavy Bolt Pistol and Astartes Chainsword in the profile. To top it off, those entries do not exist in the weapon section either, so if you want to know what they did you'd still need the physical book.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that a lot of the weapons werent listed under the weapons tab. If you search for them they’ll come up though.

I searched them out and I get little locked icons and I cannot pull up the rules at all so it's still not helpful.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that the search feature only works if you pay the subscription.

so the stats for the weapons for the codex you just paid for are hidden behind the subscription?

Search works fine for me and pulls up the heavy BP profile OK. Maybe update your app?

 kodos wrote:
so the stats for the weapons for the codex you just paid for are hidden behind the subscription?

Yes. To be fair though I’m going to guess it’s a bug or mistake, since the Necron book apparently doesn’t do that it sounds like.

 kodos wrote:
so the stats for the weapons for the codex you just paid for are hidden behind the subscription?

...wow. What a gakshow.

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Search works fine for me and pulls up the heavy BP profile OK. Maybe update your app?

Do you have a paid subscription? The search works fine for me as well, it’s just a paid subscription only feature.

 AduroT wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Search works fine for me and pulls up the heavy BP profile OK. Maybe update your app?

Do you have a paid subscription? The search works fine for me as well, it’s just a paid subscription only feature.

I do not. I wouldn’t have said anything otherwise, since the discussion was about not having one.

Sounds like they needed up the data for sm codex. All other codex have all weapon options.
It's a screen up that they will hopefully fix soon.

Having said that, that's a pretty big QA miss to let that through

 AduroT wrote:

 kodos wrote:
so the stats for the weapons for the codex you just paid for are hidden behind the subscription?

Yes. To be fair though I’m going to guess it’s a bug or mistake, since the Necron book apparently doesn’t do that it sounds like.

they had a long time to prepare that thing and it still does not work as it should?
just imagine what would have happend without Covid and the Codex being released a month or 2 earlier

but GW must be forgiven as multi-million $ company has not the money nor the time to release a working product, specially if it is one were they are the ones to set the time schedule for themselves (and it is not like they already offer a working product for a different game for a long time now, but I guess the greed for the extra money was worth the hassle)

 kodos wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

 kodos wrote:
so the stats for the weapons for the codex you just paid for are hidden behind the subscription?

Yes. To be fair though I’m going to guess it’s a bug or mistake, since the Necron book apparently doesn’t do that it sounds like.

they had a long time to prepare that thing and it still does not work as it should?
just imagine what would have happend without Covid and the Codex being released a month or 2 earlier

but GW must be forgiven as multi-million $ company has not the money nor the time to release a working product, specially if it is one were they are the ones to set the time schedule for themselves (and it is not like they already offer a working product for a different game for a long time now, but I guess the greed for the extra money was worth the hassle)

I will continue to say that the thing that frustrates me the most about the 40k app is the fact Azyr exists, so we Know they can do it, they just chose not to.

 AduroT wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Search works fine for me and pulls up the heavy BP profile OK. Maybe update your app?

Do you have a paid subscription? The search works fine for me as well, it’s just a paid subscription only feature.

Something weird is going on there, then - I only have the free version, and on the core rules at least, the search works just fine. Or is it different for the Codexes?

 Super Ready wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

 Mr_Rose wrote:
Search works fine for me and pulls up the heavy BP profile OK. Maybe update your app?

Do you have a paid subscription? The search works fine for me as well, it’s just a paid subscription only feature.

Something weird is going on there, then - I only have the free version, and on the core rules at least, the search works just fine. Or is it different for the Codexes?

...Ok I have no idea then. The search feature is/was advertised as a subscriber thing.

 AduroT wrote:

 kodos wrote:

 AduroT wrote:

 kodos wrote:
so the stats for the weapons for the codex you just paid for are hidden behind the subscription?

Yes. To be fair though I’m going to guess it’s a bug or mistake, since the Necron book apparently doesn’t do that it sounds like.

they had a long time to prepare that thing and it still does not work as it should?
just imagine what would have happend without Covid and the Codex being released a month or 2 earlier

but GW must be forgiven as multi-million $ company has not the money nor the time to release a working product, specially if it is one were they are the ones to set the time schedule for themselves (and it is not like they already offer a working product for a different game for a long time now, but I guess the greed for the extra money was worth the hassle)

I will continue to say that the thing that frustrates me the most about the 40k app is the fact Azyr exists, so we Know they can do it, they just chose not to.

It shows the 2 divisions don't talk to eachother enough and barely know what the other is doing.

Same thing back when they released the mini-rulebooks for 8th edition/AoS. The AoS one was updated with all errata and generals handbook. The 40k was a strait copy of the original rulebook and out of date.

This is why I love Privateer Press.

Their programme 'War Room' has every model/unit in the game cards available for a one off price for the length of an edition (currently averaging over 5 years) for about $80US
Or you can just buy individual factions for a few bucks.

Then you can review cards at your leisure or even in game.

Then you can make armies, play with the armies allocating damage and deaths, even running your army and opponent's army on the same device, access the current updated rules as a pdf.

Compared to GW it is spectacular.
Sure there is the odd bug but the current version (Mk2) is leaps and bounds ahead of the Mk1 version.

 Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
This is why I love Privateer Press.

Their programme 'War Room' has every model/unit in the game cards available for a one off price for the length of an edition (currently averaging over 5 years) for about $80US
Or you can just buy individual factions for a few bucks.

Then you can review cards at your leisure or even in game.

Then you can make armies, play with the armies allocating damage and deaths, even running your army and opponent's army on the same device, access the current updated rules as a pdf.

Compared to GW it is spectacular.
Sure there is the odd bug but the current version (Mk2) is leaps and bounds ahead of the Mk1 version.

Also, when they Did jump to a new edition, if you had the previous edition’s all in one bundle, you got a discount when you purchased the new editions all in one bundle iirc.

 Waaagh_Gonads wrote:
This is why I love Privateer Press.

Their programme 'War Room' has every model/unit in the game cards available for a one off price for the length of an edition (currently averaging over 5 years) for about $80US
Or you can just buy individual factions for a few bucks.

Then you can review cards at your leisure or even in game.

Then you can make armies, play with the armies allocating damage and deaths, even running your army and opponent's army on the same device, access the current updated rules as a pdf.

Compared to GW it is spectacular.
Sure there is the odd bug but the current version (Mk2) is leaps and bounds ahead of the Mk1 version.

I mean for AOS they have an app showing every warscroll for every unit for free. For £1 a month you can us the army builder, but there is also a better army builder on their site for free.

The 40k app is just really bad

Doohicky wrote:
Sounds like they needed up the data for sm codex. All other codex have all weapon options.
It's a screen up that they will hopefully fix soon.

Having said that, that's a pretty big QA miss to let that through

Even some copy paste (Im forced to assume) errors got through, like the gear for plasmancers ending mid sentence:

Not sure what’s up with people’s searches

BrianDavion wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
To combat pollution & deforestation government should force companies to make products available as PDFs and at lower prices than paper based on the production costs. Maybe a 6 month period between paper release and pdf, but it should be mandated.

Yes yes "big gubmint". Corporations won't act responsibly on their own, so they have to be forced to.

I'd carve a cup out of a grain of sand to catch all the tears I'd shed for GW over this intrusion into their corporate rights.

except it's not GW who'd be harmed by this, but small companies

Some people oppose any regulation of big businesses to protect the public because "NO! IT'LL HURT SMALL BUSINESSES!"

When someone proposes a regulation to protect small businesses from huge chain stores crushing them with predatory pricing and other anti competition practices the same people say "NO! THAT'S GOVERNMENT INTERFERENCE IN THE FREE MARKET!"

 Matt Swain wrote:
To combat pollution & deforestation government should force companies to make products available as PDFs and at lower prices than paper based on the production costs. Maybe a 6 month period between paper release and pdf, but it should be mandated.

Yes yes "big gubmint". Corporations won't act responsibly on their own, so they have to be forced to.

I'd carve a cup out of a grain of sand to catch all the tears I'd shed for GW over this intrusion into their corporate rights.

If you want to combat 'deforestation', you want to sell more paper products.

 BuFFo wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
To combat pollution & deforestation government should force companies to make products available as PDFs and at lower prices than paper based on the production costs. Maybe a 6 month period between paper release and pdf, but it should be mandated.

Yes yes "big gubmint". Corporations won't act responsibly on their own, so they have to be forced to.

I'd carve a cup out of a grain of sand to catch all the tears I'd shed for GW over this intrusion into their corporate rights.

If you want to combat 'deforestation', you want to sell more paper products.

What?! No, combating deforestation would mean more pdf, less paper, less trees cut down to make paper.

 Matt Swain wrote:

 BuFFo wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
To combat pollution & deforestation government should force companies to make products available as PDFs and at lower prices than paper based on the production costs. Maybe a 6 month period between paper release and pdf, but it should be mandated.

Yes yes "big gubmint". Corporations won't act responsibly on their own, so they have to be forced to.

I'd carve a cup out of a grain of sand to catch all the tears I'd shed for GW over this intrusion into their corporate rights.

If you want to combat 'deforestation', you want to sell more paper products.

What?! No, combating deforestation would mean more pdf, less paper, less trees cut down to make paper.

More trees are taken care of and planted BECAUSE they are a value in production. There are more trees in north america today than there was 250 years ago. If society went paperless, vast swaths of trees would no longer have a use, and be cut down for farm lands, like what is happening in the amazon.

This is basic supply and demand. If you want MORE trees, you need to value(use) trees. If you want LESS trees, you need to devalue trees.

....

And yes, GW needs to sell PDFs only. It's the current year. They can sell both books and PDFs, both at full price, and people would have choice as to what they want to have for games.

Using more wood/paper is literally the one thing environmentalists are trying to do as it captures a significant portion of carbon from the atmosphere (assuming it's not then burned, so not for fuel).

The deforestation problem is predatory and illegal logging in places like Brazil, mostly to use as farmland. I don't think GW uses illegal paper from Brazil...

Also, increased demand for paper increases price of wood, which in turn increasing the viability of tree farms and sustainable logging. Go preach your feel good government policies on a dedicated forum perhaps?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
On topic: PDFs would compete directly with the app, so they won't do it.

 BuFFo wrote:
More trees are taken care of and planted BECAUSE they are a value in production. There are more trees in north america today than there was 250 years ago. If society went paperless, vast swaths of trees would no longer have a use, and be cut down for farm lands, like what is happening in the amazon.

This is basic supply and demand. If you want MORE trees, you need to value(use) trees. If you want LESS trees, you need to devalue trees.

....

And yes, GW needs to sell PDFs only. It's the current year. They can sell both books and PDFs, both at full price, and people would have choice as to what they want to have for games.

That point might make any sense if regular forests or the Amazon were being cut for pulp. They are not. Paper production doesn't really have much of an impact on regular forests (almost all tress destined for pulp are cut from managed forests). Following the Amazon example, whether or not society goes paperless would have no impact whatsoever on logging operations there, because they want the space for cattle pastures and the logs for lumber and construction, not for paper.