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Made in gb
Fixture of Dakka







I prefer reading a physical book to a PDF of it, but it does seem a silly move to discontinue PDF/ePub/whatever-electronic-format of the Codexes when there's a proven demand to get legal copies of these products.

Heck, they should be the simplest to incorporate access to the app version of a 'dex - put the username/email address of your app account in during checkout, and job's a good 'un!

2019 Plog - Dysartes Twitches - 2019 Output

My Twitch stream - going live at 7pm GMT Tuesday & Thursday, 12pm Sunday (work permitting).

Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
 
   
Made in gb
Nurgle Veteran Marine with the Flu





It's pretty obvious that this is a move to eliminate or reduce the second hand market for codices, because you can't be sure a second hand dex has already had its code used or not

EA actually tried something similar with their "Online Pass" initiative - basically you got a code with your game that enabled the online features, but if you bought it secondhand then you had to pay £10 for a replacement code. This was widely derided and dropped pretty quickly after it was introduced.

Obviously a digital codex is nowhere near as integral as the online elements to a video game like Battlefield 3, but the concept of retaining something only for first hand buyers is comparable. of course, EA still let you buy the pass afterwards, so they weren't so much trying to stifle the secondary market as profit from it.

As well as an uptake in piracy (which is a predictable consequence of removing something from the market that customers were previously used to having available), I can see this promoting a market for selling unused codes - the app doesn't seem all that popular, so there will be lots of people with the physical codex that don't want their code, so I wouldn't be surprised to see codes starting to pop up on ebay soon. this is going to rely on the honour system quite a bit, but could end up with a cheap way to access the rules, as well as allowing codex owners to recoup some of their costs.

I'll be sad to see the digital editions go, I didn't really use them on my phone but they were great for having on the PC for referencing or making army lists
   
Made in gb
Sword-Bearing Inquisitorial Crusader





For anyone who’s interested, here’s the email I sent to GW customer services.

Spoiler:
Dear GW,

Firstly, congratulations on the launch of the new edition of Warhammer 40K. Everything about this new edition, the writing, the art and the new miniatures, feels like an improvement. However, I’m contacting you to express my disappointment and dismay at your decision to discontinue pdf and ePub releases for 40K.

For hobbyists with certain Specific Learning Difficulties, or those with a visual impairment, a digital version of a codex or rule book can be essential to their enjoyment of the hobby. Now I am aware that the new codexes come with a code to unlock the rules in the WH40k App. It is just the rules though. It does not give access to the full version of the book complete with background, flavour text and art.

Personally, I have dyslexia. What that means for me is that reading printed text (especially large blocks of printed text on a full, roughly A4 page) is hard work. I can manage about one to two pages of a large book before I feel fatigued and have to stop. At no point is it something I would choose to do for fun. It’s especially hard when I’m tired, after a long day at work say, just the kind of time I’d like to be able to read for relaxation. So for me, buying my first iPad was liberating. When I’m able to zoom in on small blocks of text at a time, my poor brain doesn’t get overwhelmed in the same way and I’m able to spend hours reading for pleasure (at my admittedly slow pace).

Taking away the option of being able to buy a full, digital copy of a 40K book, feels as if a very enjoyable part of my hobby has now been denied to me. I’m sure the situation could be even worse for hobbyists with actual visual impairments. For many people, reading a page of printed text is a literal impossibility. I hope therefore, that you reconsider this decision. In your own words, “Warhammer is for everyone”. I trust that includes hobbyists with Specific Learning Difficulties and Visual Impairments.

I look forward to receiving your reply and I hope that some official announcement is made on this subject in the coming weeks.

Kind regards ...


I would urge everybody who has been negatively effected by this decision to email with their own experience.
   
Made in gb
Wight Lord with the Sword of Kings






UK

Looks like a good email.

I AM A MARINE PLAYER

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www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/528517.page

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Made in gb
Longtime Dakkanaut






Dear GW,

This edition is another raging dumpster fire.
Stop trying to get me to pay you a subscription for something which doesn't really exist.

Yours,
Lord Damocles
   
Made in de
Poisonous Tomb Scorpion






 Lord Damocles wrote:
Dear GW,

This edition is another raging dumpster fire.
Stop trying to get me to pay you a subscription for something which doesn't really exist.

Yours,
Lord Damocles


Yep, that's bound to achieve something.

This may sound uncharacteristically positive, but GW does seem to be interested in customer feedback these days. If you feel strongly about GW dropping PDFs and want them back, writing them a genuine and polite E-Mail is probably not a bad idea. Sure, there's no guarantee that it will achieve anything, but depending on how invested (or not) GW is in using the absence of PDF codices as a tool to get people to use the app, it may be worth a try. Keep in mind that if the app doesn't sell or get downloaded enough GW only knows that something is wrong with it, but not what it is exactly that keeps people away from it. They might come to miss the revenue from digital codices after all, and there's no harm in telling them that.

Nehekhara lives! Sort of! 
   
Made in ca
Legendary Master of the Chapter





 Lord Damocles wrote:
Dear GW,

This edition is another raging dumpster fire.
Stop trying to get me to pay you a subscription for something which doesn't really exist.

Yours,
Lord Damocles


yeah, Monkeyballistic's letter will be read and noted. yours will be promptly ignored and at best laughed at

Opinions are not facts please don't confuse the two 
   
Made in pl
Tough Tyrant Guard





 Mr Morden wrote:
Looks like a good email.

Agreed, and maybe (although the chances are minimal) it will open some eyes responsible for making decisions in GW HQ.
   
Made in ca
[DCM]
The World Killer.




The best State-Texas

This is really disappointing. I thought for sure we'd at least be able to purchase a digital only copy for cheaper in the app like AoS.

Well, I'm not spending 50 bucks a pop for every codex. I'll just get them for the armies I use and acquire the others through various means.

4000+
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Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

Dear Valued Customer,

Thank you for sharing your concerns with us in your recent letter. As you know, we are new "us" and new "us" has become world famous for listening to customer feedback and other positive stuff since we now produce tongue in cheek social media bits.

Our recent price adjustments during these challenging COVID times is just another example of listening to our biggest fans*. And have you seen the exciting things we've done with our post apocalyptic gang warfare game? We are close to downloadable, drip feed content there as we can currently get.

We've expanded on this model into our best-selling sci-fi game ---and hopefully soon into other games--- by adjusting the price of our force composition books and introducing an online app with a subscription fee. That way, even if you don't have time to buy new models and books, you will still be able to contribute to your favorite hoBBy. Exciting times!

We appreciate your feedback and will certainly take it into account in our future decisions about our awesome games and miniature releases. To tangibly show you our appreciation, please accept this $2 voucher good for 30 days if you spend $95 through our online store. Just think, you're $2 closer to free shipping already!

Yours,

James Automatedresponsio




*Our Stockholders, of course


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Sasori wrote:
This is really disappointing. I thought for sure we'd at least be able to purchase a digital only copy for cheaper in the app like AoS.

Well, I'm not spending 50 bucks a pop for every codex. I'll just get them for the armies I use and acquire the others through various means.


Would it be possible for, say, two gaming buddies who want the same codex (one wants physical and the other wants the e-version) to actually make out-ish by buying the same book together? I get that it's a Jack Sprat proposal but if the e-guy pays, say, $15 then the physical book guy pays $35 (assuming they pay $50 MSRP) then it's sort of cheaper, kinda.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/04 17:02:43


 
   
Made in gb
Chalice-Wielding Sanguinary High Priest





Stevenage, UK

 privateer4hire wrote:
Would it be possible for, say, two gaming buddies who want the same codex (one wants physical and the other wants the e-version) to actually make out-ish by buying the same book together? I get that it's a Jack Sprat proposal but if the e-guy pays, say, $15 then the physical book guy pays $35 (assuming they pay $50 MSRP) then it's sort of cheaper, kinda.

Absolutely - but it looks like the e-version is JUST the rules. So no lore, and no pretty middle picture section. Not good enough, if you ask me.

"Hard pressed on my right. My centre is yielding. Impossible to manoeuvre. Situation excellent. I am attacking." - General Ferdinand Foch  
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

Yeah, unless I'm missing something the app version that you unlock with the code isn't actually the codex, its ONLY the rules accessible within the apps craptastic UI.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
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Made in fr
Longtime Dakkanaut






Removed - Please do not advocate piracy

This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2020/10/04 20:02:35


I've never watched a whole episode of Firefly. 
   
Made in au
Pustulating Plague Priest




Geez people, give GW a break, the person that had to do all the technical wizardry it took to make those PDFs might have died of COVID, it’ll take them years to find a replacement! it’s not like you can just click a button and export a PDF from Indesign or something. It’s going to take at least two price rises before they can afford to look at this as an option going forward.

There’s a difference between having a hobby and being a narcissist.  
   
Made in gb
Servoarm Flailing Magos




United Kingdom

Just want to make sure I haven't missed something - what has GW released as a PDF? I thought everything was ePub (or iBooks)?

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/04 21:47:24


 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut





Myrtle Creek, OR

chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, unless I'm missing something the app version that you unlock with the code isn't actually the codex, its ONLY the rules accessible within the apps craptastic UI.

I have run into a good number of players who just want the rules and would happily buy a cheaper codex if all they lost was fluff and illustrations.
   
Made in gb
Servoarm Flailing Magos




United Kingdom

 privateer4hire wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, unless I'm missing something the app version that you unlock with the code isn't actually the codex, its ONLY the rules accessible within the apps craptastic UI.

I have run into a good number of players who just want the rules and would happily buy a cheaper codex if all they lost was fluff and illustrations.


They did that a few years ago (almost 5 now) with the Gamer's Edition Codex range (Faeit 212 link). I would guess it didn't work out for them as they stopped doing them.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/04 22:09:50


 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






So how do know exactly that the new gen codex code does not unlock an epub PDF and is a stripped down "rules only" version?

I'm quite happy personally. I really enjoy owing and reading physical books at home flicking through pages and felling the paper etc. I like paper books.

However I also appreciate transporting 5 books to a game is a pain. What I did not appreciate is that I would have to buy a 2nd epub pdf book at extortionate price on top of the over-priced physical one I already bought..

This seems like best of both worlds. Great for people who want to have both for the price of one. But if you dont get the whole pdf I guess its bad for people who only want the PDF. (then again you could in theory sell the paper version once you unlocked the code ?)

But, has it been confirmed you don't get the full PDF of the 9e book? Maybe its just the way 8E books are coz its a stop gap until their equivalent 9e books come out.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/04 22:22:11


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Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in gb
Decrepit Dakkanaut




UK

 privateer4hire wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, unless I'm missing something the app version that you unlock with the code isn't actually the codex, its ONLY the rules accessible within the apps craptastic UI.

I have run into a good number of players who just want the rules and would happily buy a cheaper codex if all they lost was fluff and illustrations.



Honestly I think it would be a mistake for GW to take that path. I agree that experienced gamers might well not need the lore and art, having collected much of it over the years; whilst those who are in it purely to play might feel there's no need for the fluff. But its also very evident that the fluff and hobby side of things is a huge draw to many people. That the stories and narrative and art create a picture in people's minds eye and often lures them back and keeps them in the game as other points to connect with outside of numbers and tactics.

Thing is as soon as you let gamers get all the material they need without the fluff side you potentially will get new gamers encouraged to get the cheaper rules only versions. Suddenly you might end up with a whole generation with very little connection to the art and lore side of the game. That's bad when you've a whole department specifically writing lore books and artists making high quality artwork for you.


I do agree that the big rule book should get a stripped down practical version because then we are talking not carrying several hundred pages of reference material; but keeping it as GW have with Indomitus and starting sets as a dirt cheap content feature of starter sets and duel packs and the like; that all really helps ensure as many new peopl end up with a copy as possible. Add that to the codex and you've a ripe setup to allow for enticing more people into the BL books and hanging around the hobby even more.

   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






 Overread wrote:
 privateer4hire wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, unless I'm missing something the app version that you unlock with the code isn't actually the codex, its ONLY the rules accessible within the apps craptastic UI.

I have run into a good number of players who just want the rules and would happily buy a cheaper codex if all they lost was fluff and illustrations.



Honestly I think it would be a mistake for GW to take that path. I agree that experienced gamers might well not need the lore and art, having collected much of it over the years; whilst those who are in it purely to play might feel there's no need for the fluff. But its also very evident that the fluff and hobby side of things is a huge draw to many people. That the stories and narrative and art create a picture in people's minds eye and often lures them back and keeps them in the game as other points to connect with outside of numbers and tactics.

Thing is as soon as you let gamers get all the material they need without the fluff side you potentially will get new gamers encouraged to get the cheaper rules only versions. Suddenly you might end up with a whole generation with very little connection to the art and lore side of the game. That's bad when you've a whole department specifically writing lore books and artists making high quality artwork for you.


I do agree that the big rule book should get a stripped down practical version because then we are talking not carrying several hundred pages of reference material; but keeping it as GW have with Indomitus and starting sets as a dirt cheap content feature of starter sets and duel packs and the like; that all really helps ensure as many new peopl end up with a copy as possible. Add that to the codex and you've a ripe setup to allow for enticing more people into the BL books and hanging around the hobby even more.


But you don't though do you? You have to get a nice collectors/hobbyist illustrated books with all the bells and whistles. Only now you get a FREE rules pdf you take to games.
So anyone exposed to the hobby has to get a book full of fluff and art... Just its in paper.. and people who only want rules for their games.. get only rules.

Im a fan of this change.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/04 22:39:29


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Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Argive wrote:
So how do know exactly that the new gen codex code does not unlock an epub PDF and is a stripped down "rules only" version?

I'm quite happy personally. I really enjoy owing and reading physical books at home flicking through pages and felling the paper etc. I like paper books.

However I also appreciate transporting 5 books to a game is a pain. What I did not appreciate is that I would have to buy a 2nd epub pdf book at extortionate price on top of the over-priced physical one I already bought..

This seems like best of both worlds. Great for people who want to have both for the price of one. But if you dont get the whole pdf I guess its bad for people who only want the PDF. (then again you could in theory sell the paper version once you unlocked the code ?)

But, has it been confirmed you don't get the full PDF of the 9e book? Maybe its just the way 8E books are coz its a stop gap until their equivalent 9e books come out.


Gw themselves confirmed they don't plan to offer digital only codexes.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with providing digital rules in the app providing it works well. Unfortunately the app doesn't work well right now.
The problem is that gw is taking away choice from players. They have managed to turn what should have been a nice positive step into a negative. I like paper books too but unfortunately it doesn't fit with my lifestyle. I live in a small house with a limited amount of storage space, most of which has been given over to gw miniatures. Being able to have a dozen codexes and battletomes stored on my iPad so that I can enjoy the lore and art of any book I choose while I'm on my lunch break at work has been great.
The fact that gw want to prevent that from happening is baffling.

Then there is the environmental impact to consider especially with books that get replaced every few years.

As for the idea of selling the physical book it's hardly a good advertisement for the product. Aside from the astronomical prices here in Japan, this is the worst decision I have seen gw make for a long time.

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/04 23:01:16


 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Chikout wrote:
 Argive wrote:
So how do know exactly that the new gen codex code does not unlock an epub PDF and is a stripped down "rules only" version?

I'm quite happy personally. I really enjoy owing and reading physical books at home flicking through pages and felling the paper etc. I like paper books.

However I also appreciate transporting 5 books to a game is a pain. What I did not appreciate is that I would have to buy a 2nd epub pdf book at extortionate price on top of the over-priced physical one I already bought..

This seems like best of both worlds. Great for people who want to have both for the price of one. But if you dont get the whole pdf I guess its bad for people who only want the PDF. (then again you could in theory sell the paper version once you unlocked the code ?)

But, has it been confirmed you don't get the full PDF of the 9e book? Maybe its just the way 8E books are coz its a stop gap until their equivalent 9e books come out.


Gw themselves confirmed they don't plan to offer digital only codexes.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with providing digital rules in the app providing it works well. Unfortunately the app doesn't work well right now.
The problem is that gw is taking away choice from players. They have managed to turn what should have been a nice positive step into a negative.

As for the idea of selling the physical book it's hardly a good advertisement for the product. Aside from the astronomical prices here in Japan, this is the worst decision I have seen gw make for a long time.


Ok but does this mean therw wont be a digital version free with the physical book? All im saying is do we know for sure necron and marine codexes will be rules only ? 8e stuff makes sense to be rules only. But does this extend to new books ? Im saying I dont know. I haven't been paying much attention recently so I have no idea.

Coz if you do get a digital book with the physcial one (as it should be IMO) then you can use the code, and bin your physical book.. I can see that being an issue but im sure people would be selling codes if they are happy with p-physical book if it means they get to recoup most of the money.

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Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in jp
Longtime Dakkanaut





 Argive wrote:
So how do know exactly that the new gen codex code does not unlock an epub PDF and is a stripped down "rules only" version?

Ok but does this mean therw wont be a digital version free with the physical book? All im saying is do we know for sure necron and marine codexes will be rules only ? 8e stuff makes sense to be rules only. But does this extend to new books ? Im saying I dont know. I haven't been paying much attention recently so I have no idea.

Coz if you do get a digital book with the physcial one (as it should be IMO) then you can use the code, and bin your physical book.. I can see that being an issue but im sure people would be selling codes if they are happy with p-physical book if it means they get to recoup most of the money.


As I said before gw confirmed on Facebook that there will not be a pdf at all. If you back in the thread you can see the direct quote. It is pretty explicit.

This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2020/10/04 23:09:12


 
   
Made in us
Lieutenant General





Florence, KY

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/10/02/codes-in-your-codexes/

What You Get

In short, all the rules for your army in Warhammer 40,000: The App! You’ll get every new and updated datasheet from your codex (more than 140 across both codexes), plus Detachment Abilities, faction rules, Relics, Stratagems, Warlord Traits, and any other rules which apply to your army.

'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents
cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable
defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'

- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty
Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
 
   
Made in at
'Jack Scrapper





Austria

 Argive wrote:
All im saying is do we know for sure necron and marine codexes will be rules only ?

this is what GW said that will be with the App
buy the physical book to get a code to get the rules from that book in the App
no full digital codex, no other option to just buy the digital rules for the App

might change in future if GW realise that it was not their best idea, but for now this is what we are going to get (and it was advertised that way right from the beginning)

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/04 23:11:01


Harry, bring this ring to Narnia or the Sith will take the Enterprise

M41 - Alternative Rules for Battles in the 41st Millennium (40k LRB Project) 
   
Made in gb
Executing Exarch






Ah ok fair enough. I understood it as you will get a digital codex when you buy a physical one (as it should always have been IMO)

Seems like a strange decision as it was like a print money button every time somebody just buys an epub...

This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2020/10/04 23:24:55


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Eldar- 4436 pts


AngryAngel80 wrote:
I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
 
   
Made in us
Longtime Dakkanaut




 Irbis wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
“Piracy is a service problem.”
Valve's Gabe Newell. somewhere in the 2010's...

I really wouldn't quote greedy a-hole whose recent anti-consumer practices make GW look downright saintly. Unless you want GW to try to transition their whole range from plastic to failcast and institute mandatory payments for using paints other than official GW ones, as well as attempt to abuse their monopolistic position to force people to paint not with brushes, but with fingers (using Citadel Gloves) which is about what that idiot attempted to do...



Gabe is all those things.

He's also right, people care way WAY more about service issues than they do monopolistic practices or blatant greed.

 Platuan4th wrote:
 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
One of the biggest fallacies surrounding piracy is that all of those people who pirate something would have bought it legitimately if piracy wasn’t an option.



Dingdingding! We have a winner!

The people who were going to pirate the new books were going to do that anyway. People who were going to legitimately pay are going to complain, but they'll still pay so that they can still attend events and the like.


this actually is not, in fact, strictly true.

There are people who pirate because they will always pirate. There are people who pirate because they have no legitimate way to access something. And there are people who pirate due to use of access. And this is, in fact, measurable and has been measured. Increasingly onerous DRM increases the ratio of piracy to legitimate purchase.

Tightening DRM doesn't stop piracy, if the DRM is onerous to users, it supports piracy.
   
Made in pt
Loyal Necron Lychguard




Lisbon, Portugal

I can't justify buying a codex in 2020. It's a too outdated method.

AI & BFG:
40k:
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Made in us
Fixture of Dakka





Honestly, I think its more about keeping up FLGS relations than anything. Like it or not, rulebooks have always been one of the few things that stores can count on being rewarded for keeping an active playgroup going. Model releases are always limited in scope and existing player purchases dwindle over time but codexes sell and are easy to keep in stock and on shelves. I've known stores that have playspace for the game that only really stock the codexes.

We've seen the flip side too, where rulebooks losing their necessity hasn't hurt the players at all because there ARE better alternatives, but without them we see those games stop seeing retail support and struggle to attract new players. As much as I despise the codex system, I do have to wonder if its actually somewhat necessary for a game to remain healthy in the long run.
   
Made in us
Da Head Honcho Boss Grot




New Jersey, State of Perfection

 privateer4hire wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
Yeah, unless I'm missing something the app version that you unlock with the code isn't actually the codex, its ONLY the rules accessible within the apps craptastic UI.

I have run into a good number of players who just want the rules and would happily buy a cheaper codex if all they lost was fluff and illustrations.


Yep, that same mentality is part of what drove away casual players from warmachine and turned its community into a competitive cesspool. GW is quite right to not entertain a "rules only" style release.

I can't justify buying a codex in 2020. It's a too outdated method.


Agreed. I don't have the space for them in my dwelling, especially given the fact that I collect pretty much every faction currently in the game aside from the specialty loyalist marines (Blood Angels, Space Woles, Deathwatch, Grey Knights, etc. I only have standard codex marines). I am what you would call a "whale", and I'm seriously considering just not buying rules.

This ain't no pansy GW Armor, son - Digital Sculpting Plog, Now with Heavy Weapon Platforms!
Sympathy for the Devil, or: The Project Log from Hell

Ma55ter_fett wrote:It reads like the ramblings of a Nigerian lobotomized Shakespeare typed into a cellphone with a very aggressive autocomplete function.
 
   
 
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