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New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 11:10:36


Post by: Breton


Now that I have one in hand, and did the press fit assembly - it's not as bad in person. Maybe it'll get bad again after painting. Right now in bare plastic it kind of looks like some sort of Deep Sea Vehicle with wheels. Super low slung and wide. Like a hydroplane maybe.

The Chaplain Bike is nice. If that's what the Outrider Stand Alone Kit is going to be like, all I can say is Yummy. It's so much nicer and feels like it'll be easier to paint sub sections than the giant fewer part pieces of the Outriders. It is not Press Fit.

The Turret is Press Fit, and feels like you'll still want to magnetize it because little plastic pegs break very easily, but this and the ATV both feel like they were made with GW giving up and making it easy for us to magnetize our models now.

There are several incredibly disturbing aspects of the Turret. The gunner is missing a hand/forearm which was replaced with a prosthetic R2D2 hand plugged into the console of the turret. There's a cable going from the control panel into the guy's eye.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 11:20:27


Post by: Nevelon


How big is the ATV?
If you had to base it, what size would you use?

I’ll wait for build pics to filter down, as right now I’m not sold on the looks. Would not be the first time GW shot themselves in the foot with bad pics of OK models. I still have the thought of taking a GSC Ridgerunner and turning it into a phobos maned SM light attack vehicle.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 11:24:01


Post by: Gadzilla666


Sounds like the turret gunner is at least partially slaved to the gun. I dig that. Maybe you could convert a couple of them onto the cart and possibly make it look less Hasbro by way of Nintendo. Similar to the pilots of Chaos Hellblades. Though I doubt any amount of converting would ever actually make it look good.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 11:34:02


Post by: Breton


 Nevelon wrote:
How big is the ATV?
If you had to base it, what size would you use?

I’ll wait for build pics to filter down, as right now I’m not sold on the looks. Would not be the first time GW shot themselves in the foot with bad pics of OK models. I still have the thought of taking a GSC Ridgerunner and turning it into a phobos maned SM light attack vehicle.


It’s sitting on an upside down flyer base, and it actually looks pretty good on it. I’d be tempted to base them on one voluntarily.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Sounds like the turret gunner is at least partially slaved to the gun. I dig that. Maybe you could convert a couple of them onto the cart and possibly make it look less Hasbro by way of Nintendo. Similar to the pilots of Chaos Hellblades. Though I doubt any amount of converting would ever actually make it look good.


It's definitely a little "Congratulations on becoming the Dark Angels Master of the Forge. We're now going to weld and wire you into a pod on the Rock until you die. Well forever, but when you die we'll do it again to someone else." vibe.

[Thumb - F2F6DE12-5DAC-4000-9C47-9E13226CEFA4.jpeg]


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 11:38:59


Post by: H.B.M.C.


My issue with the go-kart is that it's armoured everywhere except the front. It has a single armour panel in the middle there, but everything else is open, whereas every other part of it has plates stopping incoming shots.

And the gun shield is way too small.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 11:43:33


Post by: Breton


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
My issue with the go-kart is that it's armoured everywhere except the front. It has a single armour panel in the middle there, but everything else is open, whereas every other part of it has plates stopping incoming shots.

And the gun shield is way too small.


The Driver is sunk way down low, you actually can't see too much of him if you twist and turn the model between the armor panels and the wheels.

There are two gun shields, each gun has a different shield because the one is taller than the other, as such the pegs on the gunner hands go into the top of one gun the bottom of the other but it remains the same basic height. I haven't done it yet, but I suspect you could clip the pegs and be able to just pick and stick the guns in between his hands without a magnet.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 11:44:19


Post by: vipoid


To me it just looks like someone took the Batmobile from the Dark Knight films and stripped off most of the armour.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 11:45:34


Post by: Breton


 vipoid wrote:
To me it just looks like someone took the Batmobile from the Dark Knight films and stripped off most of the armour.


There is something to that. even some of the molded details scream Bale Batman Tumbler Batmobile.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 11:49:36


Post by: Nevelon


Breton wrote:
 Nevelon wrote:
How big is the ATV?
If you had to base it, what size would you use?

I’ll wait for build pics to filter down, as right now I’m not sold on the looks. Would not be the first time GW shot themselves in the foot with bad pics of OK models. I still have the thought of taking a GSC Ridgerunner and turning it into a phobos maned SM light attack vehicle.


It’s sitting on an upside down flyer base, and it actually looks pretty good on it. I’d be tempted to base them on one voluntarily.



Thanks for that. GW’s website says the ridgerunner comes with a 92mm/120mm base, which is the flyer base. It looks like it might fill it out a bit better then the ATV, but no so much to cross the line into unacceptable counts-as IMHO.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 11:54:55


Post by: Gadzilla666


Goofy looks aside, how did gw ever think that thing qualifies as a bike? That's a vehicle.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 11:57:41


Post by: Ordana


 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Goofy looks aside, how did gw ever think that thing qualifies as a bike? That's a vehicle.
Its purely done for rules. To deny anti-vehicle weapons like Haywire.

Because yes, that is a vehicle more then it is a quad bike.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 12:03:11


Post by: harlokin


 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Goofy looks aside, how did gw ever think that thing qualifies as a bike? That's a vehicle.


Thing is, bikes not being vehicles is a rules distrinction, not a description; in real life bikes are vehicles.

The bike keyword is to some extent a factor of it's role, but is moreso a means of giving a model certain attributes, and not others.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 12:03:48


Post by: Crimson


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
My issue with the go-kart is that it's armoured everywhere except the front. It has a single armour panel in the middle there, but everything else is open, whereas every other part of it has plates stopping incoming shots.


Yep. It would probably look better if the front wheel had armour like the rear wheels, but I'm not gonna buy two of these to convert one better looking one. In fact I didn't buy even one. I'm on the fence whether this is a lost cause or an interesting conversion challenge. I don't hate it nearly as much as most people, but it's not exactly a great model either.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 12:09:39


Post by: Gadzilla666


Ordana wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Goofy looks aside, how did gw ever think that thing qualifies as a bike? That's a vehicle.
Its purely done for rules. To deny anti-vehicle weapons like Haywire.

Because yes, that is a vehicle more then it is a quad bike.


harlokin wrote:Thing is, bikes not being vehicles is a rules distrinction, not a description; in real life bikes are vehicles.

The bike keyword is to some extent a factor of it's role, but is moreso a means of giving a model certain attributes, and not others.

Yeah, I know that, that's the point. It allows it to benefit from rules that it probably shouldn't. Like being resurrected at full wounds by an apothecary, for starters.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 12:27:45


Post by: harlokin


 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Yeah, I know that, that's the point. It allows it to benefit from rules that it probably shouldn't. Like being resurrected at full wounds by an apothecary, for starters.


Misunderstood, agree completely ...... bikes IMO shouldn't be resurrectable either tho


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 12:30:43


Post by: Breton


 harlokin wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Yeah, I know that, that's the point. It allows it to benefit from rules that it probably shouldn't. Like being resurrected at full wounds by an apothecary, for starters.


Misunderstood, agree completely ...... bikes IMO shouldn't be resurrectable either tho


I get what they're doing, and don't mind... They're treating the bike/ATV as a giant suit of armor. Its just fast instead of invuln Terminator armor. So the medic is healing the bikER, not the bike.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 12:37:24


Post by: harlokin


Breton wrote:
 harlokin wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Yeah, I know that, that's the point. It allows it to benefit from rules that it probably shouldn't. Like being resurrected at full wounds by an apothecary, for starters.


Misunderstood, agree completely ...... bikes IMO shouldn't be resurrectable either tho


I get what they're doing, and don't mind... They're treating the bike/ATV as a giant suit of armor. Its just fast instead of invuln Terminator armor. So the medic is healing the bikER, not the bike.


But its got WHEELS dammit....what kind of medic heals wheels?


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 12:47:04


Post by: Gadzilla666


Breton wrote:
 harlokin wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Yeah, I know that, that's the point. It allows it to benefit from rules that it probably shouldn't. Like being resurrected at full wounds by an apothecary, for starters.


Misunderstood, agree completely ...... bikes IMO shouldn't be resurrectable either tho


I get what they're doing, and don't mind... They're treating the bike/ATV as a giant suit of armor. Its just fast instead of invuln Terminator armor. So the medic is healing the bikER, not the bike.

Groovy, then a Mastodon is a HUGE suit of armor. Guess the medic can heal the driver instead of the tank. Totally logical.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 12:47:09


Post by: Breton


Primaris Chapain on Bike if it's a precursor to the Outrider stand alone - the exhaust pipes fit better the outer shell around the engine compartment isn't connected to them and is seperate. The Biker legs are seperate and can be added after paining the bike behind the leg. They're hipattached like those Intercessors from a couple boxed sets ago. OVerall much easier to paint most and attach a last couple pieces.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 12:47:52


Post by: Super Ready


 Crimson wrote:
Yep. It would probably look better if the front wheel had armour like the rear wheels, but I'm not gonna buy two of these to convert one better looking one. In fact I didn't buy even one. I'm on the fence whether this is a lost cause or an interesting conversion challenge. I don't hate it nearly as much as most people, but it's not exactly a great model either.


Exactly my stand on it. Admittedly - I did think the Centurions were silly too, until I saw some in person and loved them so much that I got my own. There's a certain amount of depth and chunkiness that the 2d pictures - even the 3d spinning pictures - don't properly convey.

For me, knowing how I'd felt about Centurions previously, I think I knew that I'd like most of the model itself but those exposed front wheels just don't do it for me. I expect my Marine vehicles to be armoured and unnecessarily chonky, whereas that wheel setup wouldn't look out of place on an Ork bike.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 12:51:47


Post by: Breton


 harlokin wrote:
Breton wrote:
 harlokin wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Yeah, I know that, that's the point. It allows it to benefit from rules that it probably shouldn't. Like being resurrected at full wounds by an apothecary, for starters.


Misunderstood, agree completely ...... bikes IMO shouldn't be resurrectable either tho


I get what they're doing, and don't mind... They're treating the bike/ATV as a giant suit of armor. Its just fast instead of invuln Terminator armor. So the medic is healing the bikER, not the bike.


But its got WHEELS dammit....what kind of medic heals wheels?


He's not healing the wheels, he's healing the rider. They've decided instead of a techmarine repiaring the punctured tire, they're going to have the Apothecary repair the punctured lung.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 13:54:50


Post by: bullyboy


I was hellbent on changing the front wheels on the ATV, but like the OP, when I put it together, it looked fine and I'm digging it. I glued the MM in place (even though its somewhat easy to switch to onslaught), simply because the armies I plan to plug them into (Ravenwing and Ravenguard) lack AT currently, but have anti infantry in spades.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 13:58:21


Post by: lord_blackfang


Not surprised. All SM models improve tremendously as soon as you remove the Fisher Price toddler toy default paint scheme.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 14:01:02


Post by: Dukeofstuff


Could you take the rear armor and put it in front, rather than buy a second bike to do that conversion on both ends, and end up with a heavy armor side with "point towards enemy" writen all over it?

I don't know if the pieces would lend themselves to that, though.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 14:04:10


Post by: Tiberius501


I agree, looks much cooler in person.

Would also look pretty neat with some Orky bitz and a pair of boyz rockin’ it.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 17:23:43


Post by: Racerguy180


Breton wrote:
 harlokin wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Yeah, I know that, that's the point. It allows it to benefit from rules that it probably shouldn't. Like being resurrected at full wounds by an apothecary, for starters.


Misunderstood, agree completely ...... bikes IMO shouldn't be resurrectable either tho

I get what they're doing, and don't mind... They're treating the bike/ATV as a giant suit of armor. Its just fast instead of invuln Terminator armor. So the medic is healing the bikER, not the bike.

I'm fine with them being resurrected, as long as you just remove the bike/atv and replace it with an intercessor on foot.

lord_blackfang wrote:Not surprised. All SM models improve tremendously as soon as you remove the Fisher Price toddler toy default paint scheme.

how true this is


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 19:08:37


Post by: The Newman


 Crimson wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
My issue with the go-kart is that it's armoured everywhere except the front. It has a single armour panel in the middle there, but everything else is open, whereas every other part of it has plates stopping incoming shots.


Yep. It would probably look better if the front wheel had armour like the rear wheels, but I'm not gonna buy two of these to convert one better looking one. In fact I didn't buy even one. I'm on the fence whether this is a lost cause or an interesting conversion challenge. I don't hate it nearly as much as most people, but it's not exactly a great model either.


I went the opposite direction and trimmed the rear wheel covers off:



I don't think it really fixes the model, but I do like it better.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 19:30:17


Post by: Ice_can


 harlokin wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Goofy looks aside, how did gw ever think that thing qualifies as a bike? That's a vehicle.


Thing is, bikes not being vehicles is a rules distrinction, not a description; in real life bikes are vehicles.

The bike keyword is to some extent a factor of it's role, but is moreso a means of giving a model certain attributes, and not others.

I thought the problem with this abomination is GW gave it both keywords so it alls it to break too many core rules.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 19:38:20


Post by: Dysartes


Ice_can wrote:
 harlokin wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Goofy looks aside, how did gw ever think that thing qualifies as a bike? That's a vehicle.


Thing is, bikes not being vehicles is a rules distrinction, not a description; in real life bikes are vehicles.

The bike keyword is to some extent a factor of it's role, but is moreso a means of giving a model certain attributes, and not others.

I thought the problem with this abomination is GW gave it both keywords so it alls it to break too many core rules.

If you mean they gave it BIKER and VEHICLE - no, it just has BIKER, as far as I can see in the new book.

If you didn't mean that, then I'm sorry, but I'm not following you.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 19:49:49


Post by: Ice_can


 Dysartes wrote:
Ice_can wrote:
 harlokin wrote:
 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Goofy looks aside, how did gw ever think that thing qualifies as a bike? That's a vehicle.


Thing is, bikes not being vehicles is a rules distrinction, not a description; in real life bikes are vehicles.

The bike keyword is to some extent a factor of it's role, but is moreso a means of giving a model certain attributes, and not others.

I thought the problem with this abomination is GW gave it both keywords so it alls it to break too many core rules.

If you mean they gave it BIKER and VEHICLE - no, it just has BIKER, as far as I can see in the new book.

If you didn't mean that, then I'm sorry, but I'm not following you.

Yeah the way some reviewers were talking I thought GW had gone full WTF and given it both keywords.

It definataly is a vehical not a biker, but I suspect it's not going to change because of ravenwing. But it definitely shouldn't be benifiting from half the rules it does from being a biker not the vehical that it is actually is.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 20:05:25


Post by: Dysartes


I'm getting the impression from what you're saying here, and what Gadzilla was saying in the other thread, that some of these reviewers aren't taking the time to get their facts straight before vomiting their reviews onto the internet...


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 20:16:07


Post by: Ordana


 Dysartes wrote:
I'm getting the impression from what you're saying here, and what Gadzilla was saying in the other thread, that some of these reviewers aren't taking the time to get their facts straight before vomiting their reviews onto the internet...
The downside to the race to get the first clicks. Being fast is more important then being correct


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 20:19:10


Post by: Ice_can


 Dysartes wrote:
I'm getting the impression from what you're saying here, and what Gadzilla was saying in the other thread, that some of these reviewers aren't taking the time to get their facts straight before vomiting their reviews onto the internet...

It also seems GW has been little inconsistent as they also called it a vehical in their promotion for it aswell.

Also reading between the lines I suspect it was classified as a vehical during playtesting and some bright spark changed the keywords without thinking through all the implications.

As it having the biker keyword feels broken as.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 20:31:18


Post by: bullyboy


I haven't heard anyone saying it has both keywords, just that it explodes like a vehicle, but is a biker and can be resurrected even after exploding!
It needs to be a vehicle, thus does nothing that changes it for Ravenwing.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 20:47:35


Post by: Nym


Meanwhile, Deffkoptas are VEHICLES...


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 22:26:58


Post by: Stux


Did a little modifying to mine, which I feel helps a lot!

Brought the front wheels together to make it a trike, and re angled the back wheels downwards to give it a bit more ground clearance. Pretty easy to do, I may well get a couple more eventually.

[Thumb - 20201011_225332.jpg]
[Thumb - received_1381881752000779.jpeg]


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 23:04:22


Post by: The Newman


That's a huge improvement.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 23:08:24


Post by: bullyboy


I looked at doing the same thing but didn't like the look (plus the shocks are now behind the wheels


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 23:14:25


Post by: BrianDavion


I suspect this would be the case TBH. every release it seems GW previews one model that gets mocked and turned into a meme, then it releases and the people who actually see the model tend to all say "...... thats actually not that bad"


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/11 23:41:18


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Stux wrote:
Brought the front wheels together to make it a trike, and re angled the back wheels downwards to give it a bit more ground clearance. Pretty easy to do, I may well get a couple more eventually.
I like your redesign, but it also highlights the weird way that the front has so little armour, yet everywhere else is armoured completely.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 04:00:35


Post by: Breton


Had an extra flying base not in use yet so I placed it on one next to the outrider. It definitely looks better on a base.

[Thumb - 6441E3F3-CB34-4A05-BA54-B6E1F3E76CC2.jpeg]
[Thumb - EADA3D3E-86C4-4257-A931-3458B31F8148.jpeg]


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 04:13:22


Post by: BrianDavion


my biggest issue wiuth the mini is no detailing on the under side, it seems minor but previously GW would detail every bit of the mini so it just seems an... odd change


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 04:24:19


Post by: Breton


BrianDavion wrote:
my biggest issue wiuth the mini is no detailing on the under side, it seems minor but previously GW would detail every bit of the mini so it just seems an... odd change


Less I have to paint. And I think it should be based, so its even less important.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 04:27:17


Post by: BrianDavion


Breton wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
my biggest issue wiuth the mini is no detailing on the under side, it seems minor but previously GW would detail every bit of the mini so it just seems an... odd change


Less I have to paint. And I think it should be based, so its even less important.


yeah if it was based it'd be less of an issue, but given it's not based that's going to be kinda obvious


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 04:44:17


Post by: Argive


hold up now it doesn't have a base ???? Okay...


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 04:56:37


Post by: Breton


 Argive wrote:
hold up now it doesn't have a base ???? Okay...


Not unless my box was defective.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 05:13:27


Post by: Dysartes


Breton wrote:
 Argive wrote:
hold up now it doesn't have a base ???? Okay...


Not unless my box was defective.


It isn't pictured on one on the GW site, and the description there doesn't mention one, so your box was not defective.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 05:39:04


Post by: Breton


 Dysartes wrote:
Breton wrote:
 Argive wrote:
hold up now it doesn't have a base ???? Okay...


Not unless my box was defective.


It isn't pictured on one on the GW site, and the description there doesn't mention one, so your box was not defective.


Any rule against putting them on a base anyway?


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 06:02:25


Post by: Spoletta


Breton wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
Breton wrote:
 Argive wrote:
hold up now it doesn't have a base ???? Okay...


Not unless my box was defective.


It isn't pictured on one on the GW site, and the description there doesn't mention one, so your box was not defective.


Any rule against putting them on a base anyway?


As long as you measure from the model and are extra clear with your opponent about it before the game.

Also, it not being on a base really makes it look like it was intended to be a vehicle.

It's not even CORE!!


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 06:04:01


Post by: BrianDavion


Breton wrote:
 Dysartes wrote:
Breton wrote:
 Argive wrote:
hold up now it doesn't have a base ???? Okay...


Not unless my box was defective.


It isn't pictured on one on the GW site, and the description there doesn't mention one, so your box was not defective.


Any rule against putting them on a base anyway?


not so long as you measure from the hull anyway


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 06:21:09


Post by: Not Online!!!


still looks bad, atleast the modified versions look acceptable to great though...


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 06:39:41


Post by: Breton


Not Online!!! wrote:
still looks bad, atleast the modified versions look acceptable to great though...


SPEEDBUGGY! That's what it reminds me of. That cartoon dune buggy (and the actual dune buggies he was based off of).


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 06:44:47


Post by: Not Online!!!


Breton wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
still looks bad, atleast the modified versions look acceptable to great though...


SPEEDBUGGY! That's what it reminds me of. That cartoon dune buggy (and the actual dune buggies he was based off of).


I think now it is time for the mind blown gif?



Still looks abismal and oce again Dakka showed they are better at implementing Models then GW


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 07:38:27


Post by: Blackie


 Stux wrote:
Did a little modifying to mine, which I feel helps a lot!

Brought the front wheels together to make it a trike, and re angled the back wheels downwards to give it a bit more ground clearance. Pretty easy to do, I may well get a couple more eventually.


It really looks better this way, good job!!


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 08:18:10


Post by: Denegaar


I think it looks awful because of the Marines on top, not because of the vehicle per se. The photo without the gunner is way cooler, it's just that oversized dude on top that makes it feel goofy, IMO.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 08:43:02


Post by: BrianDavion


 Denegaar wrote:
I think it looks awful because of the Marines on top, not because of the vehicle per se. The photo without the gunner is way cooler, it's just that oversized dude on top that makes it feel goofy, IMO.


the marine in the back I just headcanon stays on with magnetic boots. we know Marines have them.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 20:45:44


Post by: Stux


 Denegaar wrote:
I think it looks awful because of the Marines on top, not because of the vehicle per se. The photo without the gunner is way cooler, it's just that oversized dude on top that makes it feel goofy, IMO.


I kind of agree to be honest. It wouldn't be that difficult with the Trike conversion to put the gatling cannon on the front with the bolters on the sides. But then you'd need to do something on the back, as having the platform empty is kind of worse than having the marine there. And that was more than I could be bothered with!


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/12 20:58:28


Post by: Quasistellar


 Crimson wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
My issue with the go-kart is that it's armoured everywhere except the front. It has a single armour panel in the middle there, but everything else is open, whereas every other part of it has plates stopping incoming shots.


Yep. It would probably look better if the front wheel had armour like the rear wheels, but I'm not gonna buy two of these to convert one better looking one. In fact I didn't buy even one. I'm on the fence whether this is a lost cause or an interesting conversion challenge. I don't hate it nearly as much as most people, but it's not exactly a great model either.


I was thinking of converting, to enclose the driver and have no gunner and just the turret, but it just looks like WAY too much work. Maybe if some 3rd party comes up with conversion bits, but I am not gonna scratch build that.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 01:51:35


Post by: H.B.M.C.


 Argive wrote:
hold up now it doesn't have a base ???? Okay...
Spoletta wrote:
Also, it not being on a base really makes it look like it was intended to be a vehicle.
Because if it had a base, the base would have to be part of the sprue. It's an EZ2B model, so everything has to:

1. Be on the sprue.
2. Not require glue.

It's got nothing to do with its "intent" as a vehicle or anything else. It's just space on the frame.



New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 02:38:57


Post by: Breton


Not Online!!! wrote:
Breton wrote:
Not Online!!! wrote:
still looks bad, atleast the modified versions look acceptable to great though...


SPEEDBUGGY! That's what it reminds me of. That cartoon dune buggy (and the actual dune buggies he was based off of).


I think now it is time for the mind blown gif?




It’s not that far off, it’s pretty easy to see how SpeedBuggy would have a Machine Spirit.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Argive wrote:
hold up now it doesn't have a base ???? Okay...
Spoletta wrote:
Also, it not being on a base really makes it look like it was intended to be a vehicle.
Because if it had a base, the base would have to be part of the sprue. It's an EZ2B model, so everything has to:

1. Be on the sprue.
2. Not require glue.

It's got nothing to do with its "intent" as a vehicle or anything else. It's just space on the frame.



Plus that would make a lot of aircraft and Repulsors bikes instead of vehicles. They come with a base.
This thing needs a base because it’s so short. It really misses that quarter inch or so of height. And it shows even more next to the bikes and other models.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 03:53:57


Post by: BrianDavion


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
 Argive wrote:
hold up now it doesn't have a base ???? Okay...
Spoletta wrote:
Also, it not being on a base really makes it look like it was intended to be a vehicle.
Because if it had a base, the base would have to be part of the sprue. It's an EZ2B model, so everything has to:

1. Be on the sprue.
2. Not require glue.

It's got nothing to do with its "intent" as a vehicle or anything else. It's just space on the frame.



that doesn't make any sense. if that's your logic then the redemptor dread wouldn't have a base


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 04:38:22


Post by: H.B.M.C.


BrianDavion wrote:
that doesn't make any sense. if that's your logic then the redemptor dread wouldn't have a base
But doesn't the Redemptor have a standard sized base?

Of course there are a lot more sizes of base these days, so who knows? Either way, there's nothing illogical about what I said.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 05:53:55


Post by: Phobos


I like the trike conversion. Need some 3D printed armor for the front though.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 06:07:31


Post by: Breton


 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that doesn't make any sense. if that's your logic then the redemptor dread wouldn't have a base
But doesn't the Redemptor have a standard sized base?

Of course there are a lot more sizes of base these days, so who knows? Either way, there's nothing illogical about what I said.


The Repulsor is a Vehicle.

The Repulsor has a base.

Not having a base makes you think the ATV should be a vehicle.

That's the inconsistency.

The ATV is the first new anything in a long long time that doesn't have a base.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 06:50:48


Post by: BrianDavion


Breton wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that doesn't make any sense. if that's your logic then the redemptor dread wouldn't have a base
But doesn't the Redemptor have a standard sized base?

Of course there are a lot more sizes of base these days, so who knows? Either way, there's nothing illogical about what I said.


The Repulsor is a Vehicle.

The Repulsor has a base.

Not having a base makes you think the ATV should be a vehicle.

That's the inconsistency.

The ATV is the first new anything in a long long time that doesn't have a base.


we where talking the REDEMPTOR


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 06:59:43


Post by: Breton


BrianDavion wrote:
Breton wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that doesn't make any sense. if that's your logic then the redemptor dread wouldn't have a base
But doesn't the Redemptor have a standard sized base?

Of course there are a lot more sizes of base these days, so who knows? Either way, there's nothing illogical about what I said.


The Repulsor is a Vehicle.

The Repulsor has a base.

Not having a base makes you think the ATV should be a vehicle.

That's the inconsistency.

The ATV is the first new anything in a long long time that doesn't have a base.


we where talking the REDEMPTOR


I mentioned the Repulsor. But the Redemptor is also a vehicle. The Redemptor has a base. This is still the first new thing in a long time that doesn't have a base.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 07:30:37


Post by: a_typical_hero


Not funny looking, eh?
Then explain this!

Spoiler:



New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 07:42:37


Post by: Dysartes


Breton wrote:
Spoiler:
BrianDavion wrote:
Breton wrote:
 H.B.M.C. wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
that doesn't make any sense. if that's your logic then the redemptor dread wouldn't have a base
But doesn't the Redemptor have a standard sized base?

Of course there are a lot more sizes of base these days, so who knows? Either way, there's nothing illogical about what I said.


The Repulsor is a Vehicle.

The Repulsor has a base.

Not having a base makes you think the ATV should be a vehicle.

That's the inconsistency.

The ATV is the first new anything in a long long time that doesn't have a base.


we where talking the REDEMPTOR


I mentioned the Repulsor. But the Redemptor is also a vehicle. The Redemptor has a base. This is still the first new thing in a long time that doesn't have a base.


The Skorpius Dunerider would like a word with you. As would, depending on your definition of new, the Immolater and Exorcist.

Walkers have come with suitable bases since at least 3rd edition. Flyers require them to show that they, well, fly. Same with Skimmers, even those that should have tracks instead of anti-grav. Winnow away those three types, and I'd say it is more unusual for a vehicle to have a base than not - the Ork buggies being an exception here, but that may be due to how the Speed Freaks game was designed.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 08:11:55


Post by: Super Ready


a_typical_hero wrote:
Not funny looking, eh?
Then explain this!


YES!! Somebody actually did it. And with such panache, too.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 12:50:41


Post by: Duskweaver


Umm... I think BrianDavion's point was that the ETB Redemptor Dread came with a regular (not on the sprue, not pushfit) base, therefore HBMC's argument that the ATV lacks a base solely because it's an ETB model is invalid.

Surely I can't be the only one who understood what Brian was on about?


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 13:51:42


Post by: Breton


 Duskweaver wrote:
Umm... I think BrianDavion's point was that the ETB Redemptor Dread came with a regular (not on the sprue, not pushfit) base, therefore HBMC's argument that the ATV lacks a base solely because it's an ETB model is invalid.

Surely I can't be the only one who understood what Brian was on about?


Oh, outside of scenic bases for characters all the ETB/Press Fit stuff I've seen came with "normal" black bases that just had a predrilled hole for "foot" pegs.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 14:01:38


Post by: Xenomancers


It is literally the worst model ever produced in the primaris era. Probably ever. Whatever you have to do to justify including them in your army because they are OP is fine dude. They are perfectly legal to include in your lists. Don't feel bad about it. Just graciously accept the THAT GUY moniker. You can't actually think this model looks good. It is objectively impossible.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 14:06:08


Post by: Kayback




I went the opposite direction and trimmed the rear wheel covers off:



I don't think it really fixes the model, but I do like it better.


That's pretty dope. Looks like an Air Droppable vehicle for use behind enemy lines, allowing higher maneuverability, slightly better firepower and (and this is important) ability to transport extra gear. I'd load one down like a Gulf War FAV.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 18:25:45


Post by: Sgt. Cortez


Btw, Myphitic Blight Hauler is probably the closest thing to the ATV. It's a light vehicle, it's ETB, it is a pretty recent model (8th Edition) - it still does have a base. It's not purely standard because it comes with three holes in it that align to the MBHs chains.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/13 18:33:28


Post by: bullyboy


 Xenomancers wrote:
It is literally the worst model ever produced in the primaris era. Probably ever. Whatever you have to do to justify including them in your army because they are OP is fine dude. They are perfectly legal to include in your lists. Don't feel bad about it. Just graciously accept the THAT GUY moniker. You can't actually think this model looks good. It is objectively impossible.


Good to see you still being way off on statements and predictions.
As an initial detractor of the model at first look, it is far better in person. In my opinion, it is better looking than both the Repulsor and Impulsor models, not to mention inceptors.

The biggest downfall to it currently, is that it should have phobos crew and been part of the vanguard.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 00:27:21


Post by: BrianDavion


 Xenomancers wrote:
It is literally the worst model ever produced in the primaris era. Probably ever. Whatever you have to do to justify including them in your army because they are OP is fine dude. They are perfectly legal to include in your lists. Don't feel bad about it. Just graciously accept the THAT GUY moniker. You can't actually think this model looks good. It is objectively impossible.


Wow are you really so fething egotistical you think your view on AESTETICS is an absolute?!



Automatically Appended Next Post:
 bullyboy wrote:


The biggest downfall to it currently, is that it should have phobos crew and been part of the vanguard.


I think they're intended to accompany bikes so wear the same armor. now that said, OUTRIDERS being vangaurd would make a lot of sense, but since they're strapped into a vehicle wearing lighter armor would achomplish little


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 00:37:21


Post by: Sterling191


 Xenomancers wrote:
It is literally the worst model ever produced in the primaris era. Probably ever.




These gentlemen would like a word with you.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 00:41:29


Post by: Asherian Command


Did everyone forget about the wonky looking primaris inceptors and the other bizzare models? The ATV is bad but not nearly as bad as the other models in the primaris range which has been very lackluster overall.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 01:06:40


Post by: Rahdok


It kinda looks like the Tumbler from the Dark Knight batman movies, just smaller and with a dude on a turret


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 06:41:16


Post by: Stux


 Asherian Command wrote:
Did everyone forget about the wonky looking primaris inceptors and the other bizzare models? The ATV is bad but not nearly as bad as the other models in the primaris range which has been very lackluster overall.


I love Inceptors! Genuinely, I think they're an awesome model and I dont even mind the flight stands everyone always grumbles about. Its all extremely subjective.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 06:43:19


Post by: Breton


I like Inceptors too, but the stands are awful. Even after I figured out it’s a lot easier to stand the model on its head and glue the stand on while pointing up the air, it’s just bad.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 06:49:16


Post by: Stux


Breton wrote:
I like Inceptors too, but the stands are awful. Even after I figured out it’s a lot easier to stand the model on its head and glue the stand on while pointing up the air, it’s just bad.


They just need supporting while the plastic glue dries, and given proper time to fully dry (plastic glue takes like 24 hours to fully set). Do that, and I dont have problems. And I have 12 Inceptors.

I really dont get why people have so many issues with them.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 06:53:01


Post by: Breton


 Stux wrote:
Breton wrote:
I like Inceptors too, but the stands are awful. Even after I figured out it’s a lot easier to stand the model on its head and glue the stand on while pointing up the air, it’s just bad.


They just need supporting while the plastic glue dries, and given proper time to fully dry (plastic glue takes like 24 hours to fully set). Do that, and I dont have problems. And I have 12 Inceptors.

I really dont get why people have so many issues with them.


the Peg/Hole mechanic was much easier, and non permanent. They didn't need to reinvent the wheel into a more fragile more complicated system I liked Peg/Hole on speeders, (and running legs on Assault Marines) because you could take them off the base during storage and/or they took up less height.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 14:47:17


Post by: Nitro Zeus


This thread reeks of desperation lol


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 15:02:07


Post by: Dudeface


 Nitro Zeus wrote:
This thread reeks of desperation lol


For what? Aesthetics are subjective choice, what is so desperate about it?


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 15:06:06


Post by: Xenomancers


Sterling191 wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
It is literally the worst model ever produced in the primaris era. Probably ever.




These gentlemen would like a word with you.

Well that is not primaris era. Only issue with those mutilators is the face. The body looks pretty sweet.

This gokart might be the worst model ever though. It is a strong contendor. ESP if you factor in modeling standards of the time. Some early models just look bad - but thats not fair cause all models in the early days look bad IMO.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 16:17:25


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


 Stux wrote:
 Asherian Command wrote:
Did everyone forget about the wonky looking primaris inceptors and the other bizzare models? The ATV is bad but not nearly as bad as the other models in the primaris range which has been very lackluster overall.


I love Inceptors! Genuinely, I think they're an awesome model and I dont even mind the flight stands everyone always grumbles about. Its all extremely subjective.

Yeah Inceptors aren't bad once you see them in person but the flying Autocannon dudes are a different story.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 16:31:40


Post by: The Salt Mine


I like the model. I think it is neat. Its pretty much the reason I jumped on the SM bandwagon. I just wish they could attach to outriders like attack bikes could attach to regular bikes.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 16:35:29


Post by: Breton


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Stux wrote:
 Asherian Command wrote:
Did everyone forget about the wonky looking primaris inceptors and the other bizzare models? The ATV is bad but not nearly as bad as the other models in the primaris range which has been very lackluster overall.


I love Inceptors! Genuinely, I think they're an awesome model and I dont even mind the flight stands everyone always grumbles about. Its all extremely subjective.

Yeah Inceptors aren't bad once you see them in person but the flying Autocannon dudes are a different story.


The ETB Inceptors are bad. Especially around the boots.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 17:09:49


Post by: Slayer-Fan123


Breton wrote:
Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
 Stux wrote:
 Asherian Command wrote:
Did everyone forget about the wonky looking primaris inceptors and the other bizzare models? The ATV is bad but not nearly as bad as the other models in the primaris range which has been very lackluster overall.


I love Inceptors! Genuinely, I think they're an awesome model and I dont even mind the flight stands everyone always grumbles about. Its all extremely subjective.

Yeah Inceptors aren't bad once you see them in person but the flying Autocannon dudes are a different story.


The ETB Inceptors are bad. Especially around the boots.

I don't really expect any ETB kit to exactly be great.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 17:15:41


Post by: Xenomancers


Inceptors with the sweet space suit helemts. They look good to me.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 17:23:01


Post by: Mr Morden


Its not Centurion bad but its nearly as bad as Taurox - I don't want one but it might work better with a servitor gunner - maybe.



New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 17:25:00


Post by: Breton


Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

I don't really expect any ETB kit to exactly be great.


Neither do I, but comparing ETB Inceptors to ETB Intercessors etc, the ETB Inceptors are bad, while most of the rest are just not great.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 17:36:17


Post by: Xenomancers


 Mr Morden wrote:
Its not Centurion bad but its nearly as bad as Taurox - I don't want one but it might work better with a servitor gunner - maybe.


Taurox is not that bad. It looks like an real arctic vehicle with guns. This looks like a gocart.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 17:49:10


Post by: NH Gunsmith


 Xenomancers wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Its not Centurion bad but its nearly as bad as Taurox - I don't want one but it might work better with a servitor gunner - maybe.


Taurox is not that bad. It looks like an real arctic vehicle with guns. This looks like a gocart.


Nah, the Taurox is trash man. It is dopey and doesn't fit any of the other Astra Mili... errr, Imperial Guard vehicle aesthetic just to further rub in just how crap it is.

While this go kart is horrendous, it at least shares enough visual cues with the rest of the Primaris line that putting it on the table won't make it stand out visually from the rest of the Primaris line... the only thing that makes it stand out is just how awful of a model it is.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 18:45:59


Post by: Xenomancers


 NH Gunsmith wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Its not Centurion bad but its nearly as bad as Taurox - I don't want one but it might work better with a servitor gunner - maybe.


Taurox is not that bad. It looks like an real arctic vehicle with guns. This looks like a gocart.


Nah, the Taurox is trash man. It is dopey and doesn't fit any of the other Astra Mili... errr, Imperial Guard vehicle aesthetic just to further rub in just how crap it is.

While this go kart is horrendous, it at least shares enough visual cues with the rest of the Primaris line that putting it on the table won't make it stand out visually from the rest of the Primaris line... the only thing that makes it stand out is just how awful of a model it is.

While it's wheel wells do share appearance with the outrider bike slightly and also the severe lack of clearance for what are supposed to be off road vehicles ..At least the Outrider has kind of chopper/drag bike appeal to it - these things in their own way are kind of cool I guess. There is nothing cool about go karts. ESP not when they are excessively wide! It looks so out of place in anything but a mario cart meme.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 18:53:13


Post by: Alcibiades


Centurions are a great model. They're over-the-top, which is what makes them awesome!


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 20:10:29


Post by: The Newman


a_typical_hero wrote:
Not funny looking, eh?
Then explain this!

Spoiler:



That may well be the best looking version of that model I've seen to date. I think it's the mustaches.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 20:55:48


Post by: BrianDavion


 Xenomancers wrote:
 NH Gunsmith wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Its not Centurion bad but its nearly as bad as Taurox - I don't want one but it might work better with a servitor gunner - maybe.


Taurox is not that bad. It looks like an real arctic vehicle with guns. This looks like a gocart.


Nah, the Taurox is trash man. It is dopey and doesn't fit any of the other Astra Mili... errr, Imperial Guard vehicle aesthetic just to further rub in just how crap it is.

While this go kart is horrendous, it at least shares enough visual cues with the rest of the Primaris line that putting it on the table won't make it stand out visually from the rest of the Primaris line... the only thing that makes it stand out is just how awful of a model it is.

While it's wheel wells do share appearance with the outrider bike slightly and also the severe lack of clearance for what are supposed to be off road vehicles ..At least the Outrider has kind of chopper/drag bike appeal to it - these things in their own way are kind of cool I guess. There is nothing cool about go karts. ESP not when they are excessively wide! It looks so out of place in anything but a mario cart meme.


they're not excessivly wide. if they where any narrower the marines couldn't sit in them while having room for machinery.
seriously man, if you don't like them just say "I don't like them" quit with the hyperbole


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 22:50:39


Post by: AnomanderRake


BrianDavion wrote:
...they're not excessivly wide. if they where any narrower the marines couldn't sit in them while having room for machinery.
seriously man, if you don't like them just say "I don't like them" quit with the hyperbole


Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/14 23:23:06


Post by: Mmmpi


a_typical_hero wrote:
Not funny looking, eh?
Then explain this!

Spoiler:



That makes it better.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 00:40:24


Post by: The Salt Mine




Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.


I mean in a sci-fi setting where there are anti grav tanks any kind of wheeled/tracked vehicle seems silly.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 01:05:27


Post by: BrianDavion


The Salt Mine wrote:


Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.


I mean in a sci-fi setting where there are anti grav tanks any kind of wheeled/tracked vehicle seems silly.


not really, I can think of a few obvious reasons to keep to wheels, Outriders and invaders are long range scout/strikers, thus will be in the field on their own for a prlonged time, wheel'd vehicles require less power (thus smaller engines and power supplies) and are easier to repair in the field.
Not a big issue for repulsors and impulsors which are supposed to move with the main line, but definatly an issue for your far ranging scouts


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 01:36:36


Post by: The Salt Mine


BrianDavion wrote:
The Salt Mine wrote:


Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.


I mean in a sci-fi setting where there are anti grav tanks any kind of wheeled/tracked vehicle seems silly.


not really, I can think of a few obvious reasons to keep to wheels, Outriders and invaders are long range scout/strikers, thus will be in the field on their own for a prlonged time, wheel'd vehicles require less power (thus smaller engines and power supplies) and are easier to repair in the field.
Not a big issue for repulsors and impulsors which are supposed to move with the main line, but definatly an issue for your far ranging scouts


Yeah if only they didnt have all those land speeder engines sitting around collecting dust since primaris cant fit their fat behinds in them.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 01:38:25


Post by: jeff white


Floating numarine tanks are silly. This atv kart is shameful.
Not as bad as flying jump pack restartes with auto cannons, tho.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 02:20:45


Post by: BrianDavion


The Salt Mine wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
The Salt Mine wrote:


Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.


I mean in a sci-fi setting where there are anti grav tanks any kind of wheeled/tracked vehicle seems silly.


not really, I can think of a few obvious reasons to keep to wheels, Outriders and invaders are long range scout/strikers, thus will be in the field on their own for a prlonged time, wheel'd vehicles require less power (thus smaller engines and power supplies) and are easier to repair in the field.
Not a big issue for repulsors and impulsors which are supposed to move with the main line, but definatly an issue for your far ranging scouts


Yeah if only they didnt have all those land speeder engines sitting around collecting dust since primaris cant fit their fat behinds in them.



Yes because if you have engine troubles a hundred Kilometers behind enemy lines being able to say "NO WORRIES! WE GOT A LAND SPEEDER ENGINE ON THE STRIKE CRUISER!" is going to be sooooo comforting.
It's a LOT easier to fix a damaged ICE or change a spare tire then a damaged jet engine or repair a broken grav plate


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 02:56:16


Post by: The Salt Mine




Yes because if you have engine troubles a hundred Kilometers behind enemy lines being able to say "NO WORRIES! WE GOT A LAND SPEEDER ENGINE ON THE STRIKE CRUISER!" is going to be sooooo comforting.
It's a LOT easier to fix a damaged ICE or change a spare tire then a damaged jet engine or repair a broken grav plate


They were using those land speeders in the exact same role you keep mentioning for 10k years no problem. Also its a sci-fi universe how do you know changing a grav plate is harder than changing a tire to these people? I would also guess that engine failure on a mission is going to be just as catastrophic no matter what kind of engine fails. Its not getting fixed till someone comes out and gets you.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 03:35:53


Post by: BrianDavion


The Salt Mine wrote:


Yes because if you have engine troubles a hundred Kilometers behind enemy lines being able to say "NO WORRIES! WE GOT A LAND SPEEDER ENGINE ON THE STRIKE CRUISER!" is going to be sooooo comforting.
It's a LOT easier to fix a damaged ICE or change a spare tire then a damaged jet engine or repair a broken grav plate


They were using those land speeders in the exact same role you keep mentioning for 10k years no problem. Also its a sci-fi universe how do you know changing a grav plate is harder than changing a tire to these people? I would also guess that engine failure on a mission is going to be just as catastrophic no matter what kind of engine fails. Its not getting fixed till someone comes out and gets you.


oddly the use of land speeders in said role does not invalidate my comments that wheels on long range recon assists have some sense to them.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 03:50:46


Post by: Insectum7


BrianDavion wrote:
The Salt Mine wrote:


Yes because if you have engine troubles a hundred Kilometers behind enemy lines being able to say "NO WORRIES! WE GOT A LAND SPEEDER ENGINE ON THE STRIKE CRUISER!" is going to be sooooo comforting.
It's a LOT easier to fix a damaged ICE or change a spare tire then a damaged jet engine or repair a broken grav plate


They were using those land speeders in the exact same role you keep mentioning for 10k years no problem. Also its a sci-fi universe how do you know changing a grav plate is harder than changing a tire to these people? I would also guess that engine failure on a mission is going to be just as catastrophic no matter what kind of engine fails. Its not getting fixed till someone comes out and gets you.


oddly the use of land speeders in said role does not invalidate my comments that wheels on long range recon assists have some sense to them.
Land Speeders don't need roads or clear terrain, and are going to be a much more stable firing platform on the move.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 03:57:56


Post by: cody.d.


 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
The Salt Mine wrote:


Yes because if you have engine troubles a hundred Kilometers behind enemy lines being able to say "NO WORRIES! WE GOT A LAND SPEEDER ENGINE ON THE STRIKE CRUISER!" is going to be sooooo comforting.
It's a LOT easier to fix a damaged ICE or change a spare tire then a damaged jet engine or repair a broken grav plate


They were using those land speeders in the exact same role you keep mentioning for 10k years no problem. Also its a sci-fi universe how do you know changing a grav plate is harder than changing a tire to these people? I would also guess that engine failure on a mission is going to be just as catastrophic no matter what kind of engine fails. Its not getting fixed till someone comes out and gets you.


oddly the use of land speeders in said role does not invalidate my comments that wheels on long range recon assists have some sense to them.
Land Speeders don't need roads or clear terrain, and are going to be a much more stable firing platform on the move.


Well, stable as long as the gun doesn't have recoil. The ground friction and heavier frame would help absorb that on a land vehicle. With light weaponry it doesn't matter as much mind you.

Also it's likely that the land speeder would make one hell of a racket, and probably can only land on certain platforms. So the ATV would be better for such recon work. Where the crew would want to drive to the location, park then lay in waiting as they gather intel without being spotted. A raven guard ATV would make a lot of sense in that regard. Would look pretty nice covered in camouflage netting as well.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 04:01:32


Post by: BrianDavion


obviously the land speeder still has a use, but so's the ATV, honestly having a non hover alternative I'm sure is something sally players are happy about


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 04:07:05


Post by: Saturmorn Carvilli


 AnomanderRake wrote:
Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.


Any time I getting thinking like that I like to re-read part in Snow Crash about Y.T's skateboard and apply that kind of tech to the wheeled vehicle in question.

Spoiler:
“Smartwheels use sonar, laser range finding and millimeter wave radar to identify mufflers and other debris. Each one consists of a hub with many tiny spokes. Each spoke telescopes into five sections. On the end is a squat foot, rubber tread on the bottom, swiveling on a ball joint. As the wheel rolls, the feet plant themselves one at a time, almost glomming into one continuous tire. If you surf over a bump, the spokes contract to roll over it. If you surf over a pothole, the rubber prongs probe its asphalt depths. Either way, the shock is thereby absorbed, no thuds, smacks, vibrations, or clunks will make their way into the plank or the Converse hightops with which you tread it. The ad was right - you cannot be a professional road surfer without smartwheels.”


Combine it with a sort of smart shocks and springs system to allow for larger off-road obstacles, and boom; you and a decently imaginative way to keep your combat vehicle as low to the ground and thus creating the smallest profile as possible.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 04:47:42


Post by: Brutallica


 NH Gunsmith wrote:
 Xenomancers wrote:
 Mr Morden wrote:
Its not Centurion bad but its nearly as bad as Taurox - I don't want one but it might work better with a servitor gunner - maybe.


Taurox is not that bad. It looks like an real arctic vehicle with guns. This looks like a gocart.


Nah, the Taurox is trash man. It is dopey and doesn't fit any of the other Astra Mili... errr, Imperial Guard vehicle aesthetic just to further rub in just how crap it is.

While this go kart is horrendous, it at least shares enough visual cues with the rest of the Primaris line that putting it on the table won't make it stand out visually from the rest of the Primaris line... the only thing that makes it stand out is just how awful of a model it is.



The Taurox is a beauty compared to that little turd on 4 wheels (and i thought it was a spit in the face to Imperial Guard). I could only imagine the corpse emperor riding that ATV, Stephen Hawkins style. It sticks out like a sore thumb and its beyond saving, only thing good on it is the gatling gun, and thats cheaper as bits or 3rd party. It really saddens me that people are buying it, because it rewards bad behavior id say.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 04:49:01


Post by: Insectum7


cody.d. wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
The Salt Mine wrote:


Yes because if you have engine troubles a hundred Kilometers behind enemy lines being able to say "NO WORRIES! WE GOT A LAND SPEEDER ENGINE ON THE STRIKE CRUISER!" is going to be sooooo comforting.
It's a LOT easier to fix a damaged ICE or change a spare tire then a damaged jet engine or repair a broken grav plate


They were using those land speeders in the exact same role you keep mentioning for 10k years no problem. Also its a sci-fi universe how do you know changing a grav plate is harder than changing a tire to these people? I would also guess that engine failure on a mission is going to be just as catastrophic no matter what kind of engine fails. Its not getting fixed till someone comes out and gets you.


oddly the use of land speeders in said role does not invalidate my comments that wheels on long range recon assists have some sense to them.
Land Speeders don't need roads or clear terrain, and are going to be a much more stable firing platform on the move.


Well, stable as long as the gun doesn't have recoil. The ground friction and heavier frame would help absorb that on a land vehicle. With light weaponry it doesn't matter as much mind you.

Also it's likely that the land speeder would make one hell of a racket, and probably can only land on certain platforms. So the ATV would be better for such recon work. Where the crew would want to drive to the location, park then lay in waiting as they gather intel without being spotted. A raven guard ATV would make a lot of sense in that regard. Would look pretty nice covered in camouflage netting as well.
Can you source any of that? Are Land Speeders loud? Have they no recoil compensation? Do they need special places to land? Can a Land Speeder crew not park a Land Speeder and dismount? That looks like a lot of assumptions you're making.

A Terminator can fire an Assault Cannon. A Land Speeder has a lot more mass and momentum than a Terminator.




New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 04:58:22


Post by: AnomanderRake


 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.


Any time I getting thinking like that I like to re-read part in Snow Crash about Y.T's skateboard and apply that kind of tech to the wheeled vehicle in question.

Spoiler:
“Smartwheels use sonar, laser range finding and millimeter wave radar to identify mufflers and other debris. Each one consists of a hub with many tiny spokes. Each spoke telescopes into five sections. On the end is a squat foot, rubber tread on the bottom, swiveling on a ball joint. As the wheel rolls, the feet plant themselves one at a time, almost glomming into one continuous tire. If you surf over a bump, the spokes contract to roll over it. If you surf over a pothole, the rubber prongs probe its asphalt depths. Either way, the shock is thereby absorbed, no thuds, smacks, vibrations, or clunks will make their way into the plank or the Converse hightops with which you tread it. The ad was right - you cannot be a professional road surfer without smartwheels.”


Combine it with a sort of smart shocks and springs system to allow for larger off-road obstacles, and boom; you and a decently imaginative way to keep your combat vehicle as low to the ground and thus creating the smallest profile as possible.


"Smartwheels" and "smart shocks" don't help if your vehicle's main hull is scraping the ground when the shocks are fully extended.

The fundamental problem here, though, isn't about being able to technobabble your way out of it. You can technobabble your way out of anything if you try hard enough. The problem is that we the players have some understanding of the difference between an ATV and a go-kart, and the vehicle looks like a go-kart. It looks silly because it doesn't look like it should do the job it claims to do, even if you can come up with some convoluted technobabble explaining why it actually can.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 04:59:21


Post by: BrianDavion


 AnomanderRake wrote:
 Saturmorn Carvilli wrote:
 AnomanderRake wrote:
Normally you don't need a vehicle to have such low ground clearance that the driver looks like he's sitting on the floor unless you're making a race car that's going to spend its entire career on very smooth racetracks, and if the driver doesn't need to be sitting on the floor the whole vehicle is taller and there's more room under/around the driver. One of the reasons people are calling the ATV a "go-kart" is that it looks like it'd get stuck if you tried to drive it on anything other than a go-kart track, which makes calling it an "ATV" sound pretty silly.


Any time I getting thinking like that I like to re-read part in Snow Crash about Y.T's skateboard and apply that kind of tech to the wheeled vehicle in question.

Spoiler:
“Smartwheels use sonar, laser range finding and millimeter wave radar to identify mufflers and other debris. Each one consists of a hub with many tiny spokes. Each spoke telescopes into five sections. On the end is a squat foot, rubber tread on the bottom, swiveling on a ball joint. As the wheel rolls, the feet plant themselves one at a time, almost glomming into one continuous tire. If you surf over a bump, the spokes contract to roll over it. If you surf over a pothole, the rubber prongs probe its asphalt depths. Either way, the shock is thereby absorbed, no thuds, smacks, vibrations, or clunks will make their way into the plank or the Converse hightops with which you tread it. The ad was right - you cannot be a professional road surfer without smartwheels.”


Combine it with a sort of smart shocks and springs system to allow for larger off-road obstacles, and boom; you and a decently imaginative way to keep your combat vehicle as low to the ground and thus creating the smallest profile as possible.


"Smartwheels" and "smart shocks" don't help if your vehicle's main hull is scraping the ground when the shocks are fully extended.


can we stop claiming every new vehicle "lacks sufficant clearance and/or suspension" when that's true of literally every tank in 40k just about?


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 05:03:34


Post by: cody.d.


 Insectum7 wrote:
cody.d. wrote:
 Insectum7 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
The Salt Mine wrote:


Yes because if you have engine troubles a hundred Kilometers behind enemy lines being able to say "NO WORRIES! WE GOT A LAND SPEEDER ENGINE ON THE STRIKE CRUISER!" is going to be sooooo comforting.
It's a LOT easier to fix a damaged ICE or change a spare tire then a damaged jet engine or repair a broken grav plate


They were using those land speeders in the exact same role you keep mentioning for 10k years no problem. Also its a sci-fi universe how do you know changing a grav plate is harder than changing a tire to these people? I would also guess that engine failure on a mission is going to be just as catastrophic no matter what kind of engine fails. Its not getting fixed till someone comes out and gets you.


oddly the use of land speeders in said role does not invalidate my comments that wheels on long range recon assists have some sense to them.
Land Speeders don't need roads or clear terrain, and are going to be a much more stable firing platform on the move.


Well, stable as long as the gun doesn't have recoil. The ground friction and heavier frame would help absorb that on a land vehicle. With light weaponry it doesn't matter as much mind you.

Also it's likely that the land speeder would make one hell of a racket, and probably can only land on certain platforms. So the ATV would be better for such recon work. Where the crew would want to drive to the location, park then lay in waiting as they gather intel without being spotted. A raven guard ATV would make a lot of sense in that regard. Would look pretty nice covered in camouflage netting as well.
Can you source any of that? Are Land Speeders loud? Have they no recoil compensation? Do they need special places to land? Can a Land Speeder crew not park a Land Speeder and dismount? That looks like a lot of assumptions you're making.

A Terminator can fire an Assault Cannon. A Land Speeder has a lot more mass and momentum than a Terminator.




Well, you're right to an extent. I'm making assumptions based on current day technology. Those thrusters on the back do look rather loud, and it can be assumed to generate the thrust they're going to generate heat and noise.

For recoil, it's certainly possible. But we rarely associate imperial vehicles with recoil compensation as much as just brute forcing their way through it. Works for plains due to forward thrust, but they fire almost exclusively forward.

Looking at the underside of the Landspeeder those nubbly things look fairly fragile, i'm assuming it'd be pretty bad to have weight on them. And the gravplates they used to hover are usually described as being fairly fragile. You'd imagine some sorta specialized docking platform/cradle right? Like a plane without landing gear.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 05:05:12


Post by: AnomanderRake


BrianDavion wrote:
...can we stop claiming every new vehicle "lacks sufficant clearance and/or suspension" when that's true of literally every tank in 40k just about?


We can stop claiming new vehicles lack sufficient clearance and/or suspension when GW hires a sculptor who has seen a tank before instead of having only heard them described.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
cody.d. wrote:
...Well, you're right to an extent. I'm making assumptions based on current day technology. Those thrusters on the back do look rather loud, and it can be assumed to generate the thrust they're going to generate heat and noise.

For recoil, it's certainly possible. But we rarely associate imperial vehicles with recoil compensation as much as just brute forcing their way through it. Works for plains due to forward thrust, but they fire almost exclusively forward.

Looking at the underside of the Landspeeder those nubbly things look fairly fragile, i'm assuming it'd be pretty bad to have weight on them. And the gravplates they used to hover are usually described as being fairly fragile. You'd imagine some sorta specialized docking platform/cradle right? Like a plane without landing gear.


In animated sources (DoW, the Ultramarines movie, that kind of thing) Land Speeders at rest are still hovering, kind of like Star Wars landspeeders that are still a few feet off the ground when parked.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 07:52:59


Post by: Cybtroll


The Taurox with wheels is pretty dope to be honest.

I don't like the ATV, but I don't like anything Primaris so I suppose I don't count.

It's a neat base for some conversions, however. I think Orks players specifically will have a field day when (if) it will be nerfed and the second hand market will be flooded with them... supposing they sell enough, of course.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 08:07:28


Post by: Breton


 Cybtroll wrote:
The Taurox with wheels is pretty dope to be honest.

I don't like the ATV, but I don't like anything Primaris so I suppose I don't count.

It's a neat base for some conversions, however. I think Orks players specifically will have a field day when (if) it will be nerfed and the second hand market will be flooded with them... supposing they sell enough, of course.


I don't see them flooding the secondary market unless/until they're in a boxed set. People are either buying them for themselves because they like the army, or they're not buying them at all. They're not a Flavor Of The Month at this point. The Onslaught version isn't bad but basic SM Bikes will outpace it quickly, Erads already outpace the MM version. So the new Army every month competitive players aren't going to churn through them I suspect.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 08:10:01


Post by: Brutallica


Taurox on wheels i can get behind. Looks alot like an MRAP thay matches the army feel alot more.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 08:16:36


Post by: BrianDavion


Breton wrote:
 Cybtroll wrote:
The Taurox with wheels is pretty dope to be honest.

I don't like the ATV, but I don't like anything Primaris so I suppose I don't count.

It's a neat base for some conversions, however. I think Orks players specifically will have a field day when (if) it will be nerfed and the second hand market will be flooded with them... supposing they sell enough, of course.


I don't see them flooding the secondary market unless/until they're in a boxed set. People are either buying them for themselves because they like the army, or they're not buying them at all. They're not a Flavor Of The Month at this point. The Onslaught version isn't bad but basic SM Bikes will outpace it quickly, Erads already outpace the MM version. So the new Army every month competitive players aren't going to churn through them I suspect.


they're IMHO a bit of a sleeper hit within the new units. people are focused so hard on eradicators, but a ATV with a multimelta is gonna have a place. anyone rushing out to buy them to cheese the apocathary is going to be dissappointed, but I think over all the basic platform is definatly useful. at the end of the day it's a fast reasonably durable multi melta cart. drive those behind enemy lines and you're going to be able to pop a few tanks fairly fast. that said, Marines have a few options along those lines so we'll have to see.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 08:23:16


Post by: Breton


BrianDavion wrote:
Breton wrote:
 Cybtroll wrote:
The Taurox with wheels is pretty dope to be honest.

I don't like the ATV, but I don't like anything Primaris so I suppose I don't count.

It's a neat base for some conversions, however. I think Orks players specifically will have a field day when (if) it will be nerfed and the second hand market will be flooded with them... supposing they sell enough, of course.


I don't see them flooding the secondary market unless/until they're in a boxed set. People are either buying them for themselves because they like the army, or they're not buying them at all. They're not a Flavor Of The Month at this point. The Onslaught version isn't bad but basic SM Bikes will outpace it quickly, Erads already outpace the MM version. So the new Army every month competitive players aren't going to churn through them I suspect.


they're IMHO a bit of a sleeper hit within the new units. people are focused so hard on eradicators, but a ATV with a multimelta is gonna have a place. anyone rushing out to buy them to cheese the apocathary is going to be dissappointed, but I think over all the basic platform is definatly useful. at the end of the day it's a fast reasonably durable multi melta cart. drive those behind enemy lines and you're going to be able to pop a few tanks fairly fast. that said, Marines have a few options along those lines so we'll have to see.


Attack bike is 65% of the cost for the same MM shots. Erads are (I think) less than half for sort of the same shots. Speeders are cheaper too, unless you do Tornado in which case you can have "both" versions on the one model. I think ATV's are better off with the Onslaught. More and better shots than the HB Attack Bike, but still behind the Inceptors. I agree outside of Ravenwing we're not going to see a lot Chief Apothecary shenanigans with the ATV, but I'd also say the change to Apothecaries in general was just about making them more viable and less hamstrung by random do nothing pain.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 08:23:45


Post by: Stux


Yes definitely. The apothecary thing is ridiculous but will almost certainly be removed.

But even then, this is an 8W model with respectable shooting for just 85pts. Its an absolute bargain, and will see play.

Personally I feel it should be reduced to 6W, and then it would be in a fair spot and still be playable. Same price.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 08:30:21


Post by: BrianDavion


 Stux wrote:
Yes definitely. The apothecary thing is ridiculous but will almost certainly be removed.

But even then, this is an 8W model with respectable shooting for just 85pts. Its an absolute bargain, and will see play.

Personally I feel it should be reduced to 6W, and then it would be in a fair spot and still be playable. Same price.


maybe maybe not, ahrd to say, it's one of those units that IMHO we won't know for sure how good it is until we've had some time to see how it's used.
honestly there are so many solid choices in the fast attack slot I'm not really sure what to use, heh


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 08:34:56


Post by: Breton


 Stux wrote:
Yes definitely. The apothecary thing is ridiculous but will almost certainly be removed.

But even then, this is an 8W model with respectable shooting for just 85pts. Its an absolute bargain, and will see play.

Personally I feel it should be reduced to 6W, and then it would be in a fair spot and still be playable. Same price.


They apothecary thing probably isn't getting removed. Its just not going to practical to use it so it won't be an issue.

80 points for 8 shots is pretty baseline. 80 points for 12 shots isn't outside the norm. Two 40 point Termies get 8 shots. 4 20 points Intercessors get 8 shots. 2 40ish point Inceptors get 12 shots. 3 25ish point Bikes are going to get 12 shots.

Not everything that's new is broken and must be nerfed in the first week.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 08:39:36


Post by: BrianDavion


Breton wrote:
 Stux wrote:
Yes definitely. The apothecary thing is ridiculous but will almost certainly be removed.

But even then, this is an 8W model with respectable shooting for just 85pts. Its an absolute bargain, and will see play.

Personally I feel it should be reduced to 6W, and then it would be in a fair spot and still be playable. Same price.


They apothecary thing probably isn't getting removed. Its just not going to practical to use it so it won't be an issue.

80 points for 8 shots is pretty baseline. 80 points for 12 shots isn't outside the norm. Two 40 point Termies get 8 shots. 4 20 points Intercessors get 8 shots. 2 40ish point Inceptors get 12 shots. 3 25ish point Bikes are going to get 12 shots.

Not everything that's new is broken and must be nerfed in the first week.


you say it's not practical use, but remember Bike apocatharies are a thing for dark angels. and assuming the SW supplement let's wolf priests use the apocathary ressurection (not garnteed but IMHO a pretty safe bet) that's two marine sub factions that'll be able to RIDE an apocathary with the ATVs.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 08:44:00


Post by: Mr Morden


BrianDavion wrote:
Breton wrote:
 Stux wrote:
Yes definitely. The apothecary thing is ridiculous but will almost certainly be removed.

But even then, this is an 8W model with respectable shooting for just 85pts. Its an absolute bargain, and will see play.

Personally I feel it should be reduced to 6W, and then it would be in a fair spot and still be playable. Same price.


They apothecary thing probably isn't getting removed. Its just not going to practical to use it so it won't be an issue.

80 points for 8 shots is pretty baseline. 80 points for 12 shots isn't outside the norm. Two 40 point Termies get 8 shots. 4 20 points Intercessors get 8 shots. 2 40ish point Inceptors get 12 shots. 3 25ish point Bikes are going to get 12 shots.

Not everything that's new is broken and must be nerfed in the first week.


you say it's not practical use, but remember Bike apocatharies are a thing for dark angels. and assuming the SW supplement let's wolf priests use the apocathary ressurection (not garnteed but IMHO a pretty safe bet) that's two marine sub factions that'll be able to RIDE an apocathary with the ATVs.


Its best to ignore him as apparently everythng is fine in the new dex and in fact is probably underpowered like Eradicators and Agressors


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 09:25:47


Post by: Stux


Breton wrote:
 Stux wrote:
Yes definitely. The apothecary thing is ridiculous but will almost certainly be removed.

But even then, this is an 8W model with respectable shooting for just 85pts. Its an absolute bargain, and will see play.

Personally I feel it should be reduced to 6W, and then it would be in a fair spot and still be playable. Same price.


They apothecary thing probably isn't getting removed. Its just not going to practical to use it so it won't be an issue.

80 points for 8 shots is pretty baseline. 80 points for 12 shots isn't outside the norm. Two 40 point Termies get 8 shots. 4 20 points Intercessors get 8 shots. 2 40ish point Inceptors get 12 shots. 3 25ish point Bikes are going to get 12 shots.

Not everything that's new is broken and must be nerfed in the first week.


I dont think everything should be nerfed in the first week, no need for the hyperbole. I just feel this specifically is a touch overtuned currently.

Its quality of shots too remember. This thing gets 6 bolter shots and 2 melta shots, which is a LOT better than 8 bolter shots.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 09:31:16


Post by: Breton


BrianDavion wrote:

you say it's not practical use, but remember Bike apocatharies are a thing for dark angels. and assuming the SW supplement let's wolf priests use the apocathary ressurection (not garnteed but IMHO a pretty safe bet) that's two marine sub factions that'll be able to RIDE an apocathary with the ATVs.


Already mentioned Ravenwing up above.

I agree outside of Ravenwing we're not going to see a lot Chief Apothecary shenanigans with the ATV, but I'd also say the change to Apothecaries in general was just about making them more viable and less hamstrung by random do nothing pain.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 09:32:22


Post by: BrianDavion


As I said, space wolves MIGHT manage it too. of course if a space wolf player is running ATVs he's not running TWC so count your blessings


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 09:40:41


Post by: Breton


 Stux wrote:


Its quality of shots too remember. This thing gets 6 bolter shots and 2 melta shots, which is a LOT better than 8 bolter shots.


Whoops that's what I get for assuming. I thought it was a Twin (Rapid Fire) bolt rifle. They gave it Twin Auto? Why change the recipe? Bikes are supposed to be twin Rapid Fire.

Are 3 Melta and 6 bolter shots better than 6 bolter shots and 2 Melta Shots? in your quality of shots? Remember that 65% Attack Bike?


I dont think everything should be nerfed in the first week, no need for the hyperbole.
Are we in the first week? Are you complaining about something that just released? Are you doing it while ignoring things that have been around for decades and price out better or the same even after being told about them?


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 11:19:59


Post by: Stux


Complaining is an overly strong word. I dont feel thay strongly about it. I'm suggesting it could be tuned down slightly. Compared to Eradicators its nothing though, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about where the power level of the ATV sits and how well tuned its balance is.

I think you're being melodramatic bringing other balance issues into this. We could talk about that stuff, I'm not dismissing it, it just isn't the topic of this discussion.



New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 11:21:05


Post by: BrianDavion


 Stux wrote:
Complaining is an overly strong word. I dont feel thay strongly about it. I'm suggesting it could be tuned down slightly. Compared to Eradicators its nothing though, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about where the power level of the ATV sits and how well tuned its balance is.

I think you're being melodramatic bringing other balance issues into this. We could talk about that stuff, I'm not dismissing it, it just isn't the topic of this discussion.



I think space marine players are a liiiitle tired of all the drama that happens everytime we get a release.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 11:43:30


Post by: Breton


 Stux wrote:
Complaining is an overly strong word. I dont feel thay strongly about it. I'm suggesting it could be tuned down slightly. Compared to Eradicators its nothing though, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about where the power level of the ATV sits and how well tuned its balance is.

I think you're being melodramatic bringing other balance issues into this. We could talk about that stuff, I'm not dismissing it, it just isn't the topic of this discussion.



And I think you're backpedaling. I didn't bring other balance issues into it, I brought other similar units with similar performance for price that wasn't a problem, but the new thing "should be tuned down" with less than a week of life.

One and a half Attack bikes gets those 6 bolter shots and 3 Melta shots, but you're "suggesting" we "tune down" the new hot thing almost nobody has played with yet. And completely ignored the now two+ times the AB has been brought up.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 11:53:32


Post by: Stux


BrianDavion wrote:
 Stux wrote:
Complaining is an overly strong word. I dont feel thay strongly about it. I'm suggesting it could be tuned down slightly. Compared to Eradicators its nothing though, but that doesn't mean we can't talk about where the power level of the ATV sits and how well tuned its balance is.

I think you're being melodramatic bringing other balance issues into this. We could talk about that stuff, I'm not dismissing it, it just isn't the topic of this discussion.



I think space marine players are a liiiitle tired of all the drama that happens everytime we get a release.


Oh for sure, I am a marine player too. I already own an ATV, I posted a picture a couple of pages back. I'm advocating a tune down to a unit I personally own. With how this discussion is going I feel that is important context.

And to Breton, I dont know why you're fixating so much on a comment that was essentially just that the ATV is a bit above the curve. No backpeddling here, another melodramatic comment.

Yeah attack bike damage output is pretty good for the cost. You are correct, maybe they do need a couple more points on them. But maybe not, due to durability. Going from 6 (1.5 attack bikes) to 8 is a big deal.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 15:08:58


Post by: The Salt Mine


People complaining about low ground clearence dont realise that ATVs in real life have ground clearences ranging anywhere from 7.5 inches on the lower end to 14.5 inches on the higher end. Also when you compare this thing to a spacemarine standing next to it it comes up to up about halfway up their shin so it is probably got 12-16 inches of clearence. It know it looks funny at first but then realize the person sitting inside isnt a 4ft adolescent but and 8-9ft super human. Also in real life when you drive atvs you are not intentionally driving into pot holes or trying to turn it into a rock climber. Why would the be trying to do that in this setting. Im sure it happens and does get stuck but Im pretty sure those geneticly enhanced super humans in power armor can probably unstuck it real quick.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 15:31:31


Post by: VladimirHerzog


Its got better clearance than the land raider honestly.


New Models: The ATV isn't as funny looking in person. @ 2020/10/15 15:37:26


Post by: Breton


 Stux wrote:


And to Breton, I dont know why you're fixating so much on a comment that was essentially just that the ATV is a bit above the curve. No backpeddling here, another melodramatic comment.

Yeah attack bike damage output is pretty good for the cost. You are correct, maybe they do need a couple more points on them. But maybe not, due to durability. Going from 6 (1.5 attack bikes) to 8 is a big deal.


That's OK I don't know why you're in such a hurry to nerf something that hasn't seen the table (much) yet. It is entertaining though to watch the hoops people jump through to rationalize it though.

ATV's do too much damage.

They've got an average numbers of shots.

It's the quality of shots. Melta!

Attack Bikes get even more.

They don't count, even though they do more damage and damage was what I was complaining about, they have slightly fewer wounds.