So, Season 5 is upon us, coming in December. I just finished binging the first 4, really enjoyed it. Don't know anything about the books, but the show is great.
I was afraid it would turn into a big god/pholosophy fest like every other sci fi show does when they run out of ideas after the first couple of seasons, glad they stayed on target.
One thing I didn't like was how they replaced the UN president's husband in the 4th season with a new actor. I know these things can happen, but they looked so completely different and the new guy even seemed a lot younger .. I would have rather they changed it up and made him be a 2nd husband or her brother or something. He wasn't in a lot of the older episodes, but it was enough to notice especially when you spend a week watching the whole show all at once.
Image how frustrating it was for those of us who started watching it when it was on scifi and we had to wait for the next episode after one of those cliff hanger endings.
But yeah fantastic show. great production value, great arcing story, and realistic newtonian physics...but i was already a fan of babylon 5 for many of the same reasons.
I really liked the MCR(N) but in season 4 it seams their entire society and focus has lost it's way. they still have the best looking ships.
Great channel for official approved content on ships and other things expanse related
I think literally the only good Jeff Bezos has done for this world is saving this series from cancellation on the sci-fi channel and then it getting a bigger budget (although I am sure he will still probably go to hell).
Have been reading the books a little bit behind the series, the TV show has been fairly faithful I think and that might be helping in keeping the plot from not going entirely off the rails.
AduroT wrote: Huh. Like, zero protomolocule in the trailer. I’ll be curious if they actually just ignore that for a season.
It doesn't really play much into the story for Nemesis games (where the stealthed asteroids come into play).
It's more the big scary for seasons 1-3. After Dawes steals Fred's sample and runs off with it to do experiments "out there".
Automatically Appended Next Post:
aphyon wrote: Image how frustrating it was for those of us who started watching it when it was on scifi and we had to wait for the next episode after one of those cliff hanger endings.
But yeah fantastic show. great production value, great arcing story, and realistic newtonian physics...but i was already a fan of babylon 5 for many of the same reasons.
I really liked the MCR(N) but in season 4 it seams their entire society and focus has lost it's way. they still have the best looking ships.
There's a reason for that. With no real need to keep terraforming Mars because humanity is no longer confined to the one solar system (with 1300-odd new earthlike worlds to colonise), Mars became a lost cause and many Martians fled for greener pastures. Where they didn't have to live under a dome. It wasn't just confined to civilians, either.
This included most of their best and brightest, who were formerly running the terraforming project.
Mars had the most advanced ships, with stealth tech and better weapons and control systems.
Earth had more ships, but the better ships are what enabled Mars to gain its independence.
I think literally the only good Jeff Bezos has done for this world is saving this series from cancellation on the sci-fi channel and then it getting a bigger budget (although I am sure he will still probably go to hell).
Have been reading the books a little bit behind the series, the TV show has been fairly faithful I think and that might be helping in keeping the plot from not going entirely off the rails.
He also created Amazon, which has improved the lives of billions of people. You know, that little thing...
Anyway, The Expanse is an amazing show. Really is a treasure. I wonder how long it will take for even a show of this quality to start petering out?
The Expanse is really the sci-fi modern TV deserves. Lots of tense action, without needing extreme spectacles to move it along. Literally every space battle is awesome. They literally had me when they flipped the Canterbury in the first few minutes to burn retros.
So, I have a question, about belters mostly.
One thing i kinda see is that it seems with the new planets, with tons supporting life and resources, does it seem like to anyone else like belters might become, Extinct?
Like, the only reason they lived out there on those planetoids and stations because that was the only options for them to get resources, but with much more planets now only a few days away, it seems like that will no longer be needed.
And with is being incredibly hard for a belter to live on a planet, even with drugs, it seems like some will be forced to still live on stations or ships.
It seems like belters know this and are incredibly scared of their "Culture" and shared hardship going away.
IDK, just kinda what i thought.
aphyon wrote: Image how frustrating it was for those of us who started watching it when it was on scifi and we had to wait for the next episode after one of those cliff hanger endings.
But yeah fantastic show. great production value, great arcing story, and realistic newtonian physics...but i was already a fan of babylon 5 for many of the same reasons.
I really liked the MCR(N) but in season 4 it seams their entire society and focus has lost it's way. they still have the best looking ships.
There's a reason for that. With no real need to keep terraforming Mars because humanity is no longer confined to the one solar system (with 1300-odd new earthlike worlds to colonise), Mars became a lost cause and many Martians fled for greener pastures. Where they didn't have to live under a dome. It wasn't just confined to civilians, either.
This included most of their best and brightest, who were formerly running the terraforming project.
Mars had the most advanced ships, with stealth tech and better weapons and control systems.
Earth had more ships, but the better ships are what enabled Mars to gain its independence.
I thought the Epstein Drive is what got them independence, didnt they trade the schematics for it?
I kinda feel like if they're giving up on Mars to colonize planets, it's pretty much the same with Belters.. the 3 different nations they have now would eventually become hundreds of different planets in a few generations. And the belters who won't be able to survive on planets will eventually just die out, with their kids living growing up on new planets.
Belters seem to kinda resent that in some ways it seems.
For many of the extreme belters they seemed to take pride in their hardship and not being as soft as earthers.
Just inteeresting to me that they are that willing to self sabatoge.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, I have a question, about belters mostly.
One thing i kinda see is that it seems with the new planets, with tons supporting life and resources, does it seem like to anyone else like belters might become, Extinct?
Like, the only reason they lived out there on those planetoids and stations because that was the only options for them to get resources, but with much more planets now only a few days away, it seems like that will no longer be needed.
And with is being incredibly hard for a belter to live on a planet, even with drugs, it seems like some will be forced to still live on stations or ships.
It seems like belters know this and are incredibly scared of their "Culture" and shared hardship going away.
IDK, just kinda what i thought.
That is the major theme for the book that this series is based on.
I might binge rewatch the series' first couple of seasons before the new season premieres to refresh my memory. I'm enjoying my SGU rewatch mostly right now.
Camina Drummer really reminds me quite a bit of Kira Nerys. Both are second in command natives under a foreign CO working to unify their people while pacifying the more extremists elements of their society.
Enjoying the season so far (watched first 2 episodes). Seems everything I liked about the show is intact. Also heard a 6th and final season has been confirmed.
First three are a little slow to start, but that’s to be expected, and unlikely to last. Kind of bummed the crew is all split up every which where, hopefully that’s also unlikely to last.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, I have a question, about belters mostly.
One thing i kinda see is that it seems with the new planets, with tons supporting life and resources, does it seem like to anyone else like belters might become, Extinct?
Like, the only reason they lived out there on those planetoids and stations because that was the only options for them to get resources, but with much more planets now only a few days away, it seems like that will no longer be needed.
And with is being incredibly hard for a belter to live on a planet, even with drugs, it seems like some will be forced to still live on stations or ships.
It seems like belters know this and are incredibly scared of their "Culture" and shared hardship going away.
IDK, just kinda what i thought.
Haven't read the books, but once you have the tech for a spaceborne (asteroidborn?) civilization why would you go down a gravity well again? There's plenty of raw materials and resources that are much more easily accessible basically just floating around, and plenty of big asteroids to hollow out for living space.
Doubly so if you've changed physiologically so that living in a stronger gravity requires even more resources than just fuel and ships just to keep you from being in agony.
AduroT wrote: First three are a little slow to start, but that’s to be expected, and unlikely to last. Kind of bummed the crew is all split up every which where, hopefully that’s also unlikely to last.
The currently released episodes are effectively the prologue of the Free Navy Conflict (not a spoiler since it's explicitly shown in the S5 trailers). The story arc is as much about how the Roci family gets back together as it is how the system and Humanity as a whole react to events.
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, I have a question, about belters mostly.
One thing i kinda see is that it seems with the new planets, with tons supporting life and resources, does it seem like to anyone else like belters might become, Extinct?
Like, the only reason they lived out there on those planetoids and stations because that was the only options for them to get resources, but with much more planets now only a few days away, it seems like that will no longer be needed.
And with is being incredibly hard for a belter to live on a planet, even with drugs, it seems like some will be forced to still live on stations or ships.
It seems like belters know this and are incredibly scared of their "Culture" and shared hardship going away.
IDK, just kinda what i thought.
Haven't read the books, but once you have the tech for a spaceborne (asteroidborn?) civilization why would you go down a gravity well again? There's plenty of raw materials and resources that are much more easily accessible basically just floating around, and plenty of big asteroids to hollow out for living space.
Doubly so if you've changed physiologically so that living in a stronger gravity requires even more resources than just fuel and ships just to keep you from being in agony.
They are BARELY spaceborne, water has to be transported via ice asteroids, there is no artificial gravity.
The expanse is hardcore sci-fi.
Enjoyed first 3 episodes - all great (although Noami is still the dull weak character for me, verging on annoying)
Amos was really good story as is "Chrissie" - love their intereactions and the focus on her increasing isolation from family and allies is good.
Mars story works as does the Belt.
I hope that they don't do the really predictible thing and
Definitely my favourite season so far, and that's saying something because they have all been solid (even if the first season, originally, was confusing to start) .
I think the pacing this season is better, and there is some great character development going on.
Which makes is such a shame that there might only be 1 more season left after this one. :(
hotsauceman1 wrote: So, I have a question, about belters mostly.
One thing i kinda see is that it seems with the new planets, with tons supporting life and resources, does it seem like to anyone else like belters might become, Extinct?
Like, the only reason they lived out there on those planetoids and stations because that was the only options for them to get resources, but with much more planets now only a few days away, it seems like that will no longer be needed.
And with is being incredibly hard for a belter to live on a planet, even with drugs, it seems like some will be forced to still live on stations or ships.
It seems like belters know this and are incredibly scared of their "Culture" and shared hardship going away.
IDK, just kinda what i thought.
That is the major theme for the book that this series is based on.
I haven't read the books. However...it feels like a misstep to me that the Belters largely seem completely unlikeable most of the time. Am I alone on this?
I get their situation, I really do. It's desperate. But I think we've seen desperate people doing desperate things being portrayed in a more sympathetic light in other works. I feel like the show too often portrays the Belters as impossibly hardheaded backstabbing gutterscum driven mainly by emotion and adrenaline. Even this season's storyline
Spoiler:
revolving around a 'calculating' Belter revolutionary is realistically going to end in disaster for the Belters.
I feel like they'd be more interesting as a third player if they weren't written to be so obviously prone to self-destruction. Maybe that IS the point, but then I'm not sure what the show is trying to say about oppressed people. Again, maybe it's just me.
I have no idea if this is how they're being portrayed in the books but I'm definitely getting a pre-WW2 Japanese feel to the belters this season with the whole devastating first strike on a larger sleeping giant power that may result in their ultimate devastating defeat. The lines by Kamina (sp?) remind me of what supposedly Yamamoto said about Pearl Harbor as well as the similarities between them being dependant on Earth for soil/food similar to how Japan was to the western powers for elements of modern industry like oil and rubber.
StraightSilver wrote: Definitely my favourite season so far, and that's saying something because they have all been solid (even if the first season, originally, was confusing to start) .
I think the pacing this season is better, and there is some great character development going on.
Which makes is such a shame that there might only be 1 more season left after this one. :(
Its a great show - I would rather that they had one more great season and then stopped - although spin offs, prequals or sequals would also be nice.
I just started watching this the last few weeks (got Amazon Prime over Christmas) and am enjoying it quite a bit. I’ve read the books up to 7, with 8 sitting waiting for me to start. The series does tend to slack off the quality in the last couple, but still worth reading.
Only a couple nit-picks. Belters should be taller then everyone else, and there should be more 0-G stuff. But I get that they are stuck with earther actors, and the floating effects probably get pricy, so we see a lot of clomping around in mag boots. Which I understand.
warboss wrote: I have no idea if this is how they're being portrayed in the books but I'm definitely getting a pre-WW2 Japanese feel to the belters this season with the whole devastating first strike on a larger sleeping giant power that may result in their ultimate devastating defeat. The lines by Kamina (sp?) remind me of what supposedly Yamamoto said about Pearl Harbor as well as the similarities between them being dependant on Earth for soil/food similar to how Japan was to the western powers for elements of modern industry like oil and rubber.
Camina Drummer.
Before the ring gates opened, the inner planets were as dependent on belter shipping as the belt was on the inners. Even Ganymede couldn't feed ALL of the belt AND the inners.
The "world" of the expanse is just as fractious as our own - humanity - while it has let go of some of the older tribalistic BS, has just moved up to a bigger tribal system.
AduroT wrote: That was a hell of a stunt she pulled. Well done.
I'm just not sure how "possible" it would be - I know it's not real but The Expanse has been very good at keeping all the "science" bits of its science fiction pretty spot on. I just think there were way too many variables that would have made that extremely unlikely to succeed, not to mention straight up freezing to death, but then again it didn't look like it went off 100% without consequences.....
AduroT wrote: That was a hell of a stunt she pulled. Well done.
I'm just not sure how "possible" it would be - I know it's not real but The Expanse has been very good at keeping all the "science" bits of its science fiction pretty spot on. I just think there were way too many variables that would have made that extremely unlikely to succeed, not to mention straight up freezing to death, but then again it didn't look like it went off 100% without consequences.....
Still awesome though.
My understanding is you don’t actually freeze to death in space. You’re in a vacuum, there’s nothing to sap the heat. You’ll eventually freeze, but it takes a relatively long time. It also looked like she properly exhaled to release the air pressure trying to escape your lungs. The part I think they got wrong is it really messes with your eyes if they’re open, the exposed moisture would vaporize and boil off the surface due to lack of air pressure. Also just remaining conscious for very long given you’re not holding your breath. No idea what she injected herself with to help her.
It would burst the delicate blood vessels in your eyes and they did show that though you probably would have to specifically be looking for that to notice. Even relatively small changes in pressure like prolonged coughing or vomiting can do that. As for the injection, it's likely what they gave the reporter they rescued from the leaking container a couple episodes back... Superoxygenated blood equivalent.
warboss wrote: I have no idea if this is how they're being portrayed in the books but I'm definitely getting a pre-WW2 Japanese feel to the belters this season with the whole devastating first strike on a larger sleeping giant power that may result in their ultimate devastating defeat. The lines by Kamina (sp?) remind me of what supposedly Yamamoto said about Pearl Harbor as well as the similarities between them being dependant on Earth for soil/food similar to how Japan was to the western powers for elements of modern industry like oil and rubber.
Pretty much, I'm on the second to last of the most recent so things may have changed. But when Marcos made his speech, he speaked of the tactical brilliance of sending stealth asteroids and having the protomolecule. He doesn't realize his tactical brilliance was a once in a war sort of deal, he isn't going to pull it off ever again, and if he loses the protomolecule, his one bargaining chip is gone, and with that, mars and Earth can bring down the hammer so hard on them.
They are essentially yokels with space ships, they are not going to out fight those two
I feel like they'd be more interesting as a third player if they weren't written to be so obviously prone to self-destruction. Maybe that IS the point, but then I'm not sure what the show is trying to say about oppressed people. Again, maybe it's just me.
Not just you. It's impossible to sympathize with the belt ers by this point. I'm hoping they spend a bit more time developing Drummer into a more stable alternate leader, leading to a fracture amongst the belters as a fraction, and an eventual showdown between her and Marco.
NASA actually "accidentally" exposed one of their scientists to vacuum for a full minute once (and did it to quite a few animals, prior to this, too).
Studies have been done on the survivability of the hairless ape in vacuum.
The injector was "hyper-oxygenated blood" or something, according to the writers.
Yes, Naomi did exhale before leaping out. Cyn followed her because he thought she was trying to kill herself again.
I feel like they'd be more interesting as a third player if they weren't written to be so obviously prone to self-destruction. Maybe that IS the point, but then I'm not sure what the show is trying to say about oppressed people. Again, maybe it's just me.
Not just you. It's impossible to sympathize with the belt ers by this point. I'm hoping they spend a bit more time developing Drummer into a more stable alternate leader, leading to a fracture amongst the belters as a fraction, and an eventual showdown between her and Marco.
They really have an "oh poor us" attitude. As what shown before, belters who cannot leave space, can still work on the colonies, working in space.
But as that one big bald belter said, "and their children won't be belters anymore" and that is what they are afraid of, loosing their shared struggle
Mr Morden wrote: Both Mars and much of the artifical habitats in the Belt have been rendered pointless by the Ring - hence the new alliance.
where exactly is the proto molecule at the moment - with all the focus on Naomi whining I lost track of where extactly it is.
The protomolecule was supposed to be on the ship the Roci was tracking. I think we can assume that likely isn't the case after the last episode and it was probably handed off somewhere before the Roci found them.
As for the Belters, I think the show hasn't been quite as effective as the books at building them up as the oppressed working class to the extent we can sympathise with their plight (before the mass murdering terrorist attack, of course). I think the pacing and focus of this season has not really allowed quite enough nuance from the Belters either, barring the short discussion on Drummer's ship so we're only really seeing the hardliner's attitudes rather than the common man's. There was an interesting passing comment when Drummer spoke to Marcos about where the food would come from and the agri-domes on Ganymede being able to feed the Belt within a decade - seemed like Marcos was carefully not discussing any of the basic logistics of having a free Belt at war with Earth. That, along with the obvious problem of your still-tiny navy being no match for the superpower you just provoked, does go some way to show that the Free Navy are not necessarily going to be speaking for all Belters. I doubt we'll dive too much into that side of things in the remaining episodes though.
It blew up? To the best of our knowledge it was on the ship that Holden was hunting and attacked. That ship was headed to meet the Belter fleet but didn’t get there before Holden found and caught up with it. Holden wanted to board and retrieve the molecule, thus they shot out the ship’s engine. It then proceeded to refuse to turn off its reactor and exploded. I expect either they managed to get it off the ship first somehow, or we’ll get the usual freaky molecule shenanigans where it starts to do weird stuff with the wreckage.
The protomolecule was supposed to be on the ship the Roci was tracking. I think we can assume that likely isn't the case after the last episode and it was probably handed off somewhere before the Roci found them.
Thats what I thought and I thought Marco had some plan with various ships but the episode was a bit disjointed for my taste and where exactly everyone was - usually they are pretty good about this so you have a sense of the narrative positioning of the vessels/fleets.
get the usual freaky molecule shenanigans where it starts to do weird stuff with the wreckage.
Maybe - I am not sure a reactor explosion will destroy it but maybe it would....
AduroT wrote: It blew up? To the best of our knowledge it was on the ship that Holden was hunting and attacked. That ship was headed to meet the Belter fleet but didn’t get there before Holden found and caught up with it. Holden wanted to board and retrieve the molecule, thus they shot out the ship’s engine. It then proceeded to refuse to turn off its reactor and exploded. I expect either they managed to get it off the ship first somehow, or we’ll get the usual freaky molecule shenanigans where it starts to do weird stuff with the wreckage.
Probably the former. Marcos said "they know what to do" while showing some sort of on screen graphic of a few ships approaching the ring gate including one marked in red. I'm guessing they had a small ship stored inside like the one Bobby and Alex are using that stealth budded off once they realized they were being followed.
AduroT wrote: It blew up? To the best of our knowledge it was on the ship that Holden was hunting and attacked. That ship was headed to meet the Belter fleet but didn’t get there before Holden found and caught up with it. Holden wanted to board and retrieve the molecule, thus they shot out the ship’s engine. It then proceeded to refuse to turn off its reactor and exploded. I expect either they managed to get it off the ship first somehow, or we’ll get the usual freaky molecule shenanigans where it starts to do weird stuff with the wreckage.
Probably the former. Marcos said "they know what to do" while showing some sort of on screen graphic of a few ships approaching the ring gate including one marked in red. I'm guessing they had a small ship stored inside like the one Bobby and Alex are using that stealth budded off once they realized they were being followed.
I thought at first the ship was just a lure given the large number of torps they had on board.
insaniak wrote: It's possible the ship was entirely misdirection from the start, and it's still on Tycho station...
Very possible, yes. They were setting up something more on Tycho before the Roci left with all the Tycho-based cast members aboard so it wouldn't surprise me if we went back there at some point. That would be as good a reason as any. From a strategic point of view Marcos probably needs to prove he still has the protomolecule (assuming he does). If Holden contacts Aversarala to say it's been destroyed he would lose one of his major pieces of leverage.
insaniak wrote: It's possible the ship was entirely misdirection from the start, and it's still on Tycho station...
Marcos planned on blowing Tycho up remember, with the Roci.
I think that also shows how much Marcos is obsessed with spectacles rather than actual war.
Having read the books (up until Persepolis rising anyway - there's still more to come) - the protomolecule IS off the station.
Spoiler:
The mad-scientist type (Cortazar, who worked for protogen) and the protomolecule come together later on. The tech gets adapted by humanity to work for them. Even the Roci gets some parts replaced by prototech.
There's SFA thermal conduction in vacuum, so you don't actually freeze (the liquids "boil" due to pressure differential, not heat) and you can survive a minute in hard vacuum with only minor effects (a NASA engineer was accidentally exposed to near vacuum for a couple of minutes years ago - plus, they have done actual vacuum tests on animals, so there's a ton of research on it). He had some surface capillary ruptures and some corneal/scleral damage to the eyes, and some ear issues - all of which cleared up. There's a whole bunch of SF movies that got that wrong over the decades. 2001 had it right.
About the only handwavium in it was the autoinjector with hyperoxygenated blood in it.
Last episode's spinny pdcs moment was a nod to "death blossom" from "The Last Starfighter", too.
But... but.. in Aliens (Resurrection?) the pressure differential at 1 ATM was enough to suck and crush a hybrid Alien origami style through a small window!? Are you telling me Hollywood makes this stuff up!?!?
I always love when the air lock opens and people are getting sucked out of the room for like five minutes. If the suction is that strong the air is gonna be gone and it’s gonna stop really quick like.
That really depends of the size of the place having the air removed, and the capabilities of whatever system is responsible for trying to keep that air at pressure...
I think the idea was the transmission was controlled from one of the many boxes in the depressurised part of the ship so she had to find out which one it was while working with a very restricted air supply.
Overall another good episode. One thing I appreciate from the writers is that they don't feel obligated to include every character in every episode. It seems to help the pacing quite a bit by allowing each of the characters and their scenarios to be given plenty of time when they are on screen.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Same, they kinda left it vague at first, made me feel stupid. Although I didn't understand why she needed to run and come back.
The suit didn't contain any independent pressurized oxygen supply as it was likely stripped/salvaged by Marcos' forces but was still technically intact/vacuum safe. She was going into the depressurized areas of the ship with only the oxygen she had literally around her body inside the suit which wouldn't last that long under exertion once sealed.
I’m sure it’s a drop in the bucket that is their effects budget, but I’m curious how much it cost to animated that low g whisky. It just kind of stuck out to me.
AduroT wrote: I’m sure it’s a drop in the bucket that is their effects budget, but I’m curious how much it cost to animated that low g whisky. It just kind of stuck out to me.
It's those little touches that really make this show for me, though. Insignificant details that you probably wouldn't even think about if they weren't there, but when you see them they really help to ground the setting.
I wasn't a fan of this week's episode and honestly thought it was one of the weakest for a variety of reasons that I won't go into here so as not to derail the thread. Alot of good characters feel somewhat wasted over the last couple of episodes especially given that in one case it'll literally be the last time we'll see them due to real life reasons/drama.
I enjoyed this weeks more - but was really hoping that Naomi would sacrifice herself - its in character and would IMO would work well
I am really suprised about the new (now former) Secretary general - but we seem to be rushing through that part of the story and ignoring the big picture stuff.
If ever there was proof that this show should've been released all at once, it was this season. The way this season was written was not something that should come out week to week.
This show isn't The Boys, or Mando, or Wandavision. It's not generating the buzz that shows shows do and thereby justifying a slower release schedule.
As a result this season suffered from a number of episodes where it just spun its wheels, and where we got maybe a scene with two characters. I think Bobby and Alex were on the same set, showing up for a scene or two, for more than half the season.
Still good over all, and I applaud how closely this show sticks to the books (should be interesting to see how Alex's absence is handled next season), but man, can we not do this week-to-week gak from now on?
I think the slower pacing paid off with a pretty satisfying and exciting finale. There were times I would have rather binged a couple episodes in a sitting as opposed to being drip fed one episode a week. But seeing as how season 6 is going to be the final season they might be better off dropping that all at once.
I did not read the books so those last few seconds/minutes kinda baffled me ( in an intriguing way). I'd say today was a good day though between this finale and seeing the mass effect trilogy remaster.
I prefer the weekly. Even if it’s not hype all over, it just makes reaction discussions easier here. I would rather talk about events as they happen and what I think they mean than try to post mortem the entire season at once. That said...
Alex confused me when it happened. I thought he was reacting to some transmission he had received. And then they mention his ex and a funeral and I thought he’d just found out his kid had died. It was nice to see the crew get back together there at the end finally, but bummed they didn’t get a moment with all of them. I liked they Amos and Holden talk thought. “He’s cool with it!” Wait what? I’m curious how they managed the micro meteor shower. Like firing one big rock is one thing, but getting that kind of trajectory on a Massive shotgun cloud, I wondering what their launching mechanism was.
Definitely better than the last episode as it reincorporated some of the nuance back in the storytelling even if Avasarala got a bit too pollyanna during her big speech. I really liked the first ship battle (which reminded me of some of the great 90's B5 battles) but the second one was a bit too BFG for me personally but that's just a personal preference. It really dragged with three episodes of Naomi grunting on her ship as that part of the story was way too extended for my tastes (although I loved the first episode of it) and I'm not a fan of what they did with Alex. Spoilers below.
Spoiler:
That was some Tasha Yar death/Mass Effect 3 ending epically lame bs that they did with Alex killing him off with a still frame and a bit of CGI and then a minutes worth of reshoots with his castmates to give his impromptu ass kicking out of the show's proverbial airlock some retroactive meaning. I understand that we're living in this brave new world of cancel culture but you don't feth over a long running popular character just because the actor is allegedly a douche. No one in 5 years let alone twenty will remember even remotely what Cas Anvar did to get fired but the gakky death they gave his character will still be there just as stinking fresh as it is today for those newly discovering the series. Instead, they should have made him come in and solo film some additional scenes to give his character some more meaning and a proper death scene. The character is not the actor. YMMV.
warboss wrote: It really dragged with three episodes of Naomi grunting on her ship as that part of the story was way too extended for my tastes (although I loved the first episode of it)
It was the whole Naomi/Marco/Fillip situation that dragged on a bit for me. Naomi on the ship was great - they took a classic 'damsel in distress' trope and turned it completely on its head, and while it was certainly slow, it left me intrigued the whole time as they slowly revealed what she was doing.
Spoiler:
That was some Tasha Yar death/Mass Effect 3 ending epically lame bs that they did with Alex killing him off with a still frame and a bit of CGI and then a minutes worth of reshoots with his castmates to give his impromptu ass kicking out of the show's proverbial airlock some retroactive meaning. I understand that we're living in this brave new world of cancel culture but you don't feth over a long running popular character just because the actor is allegedly a douche. No one in 5 years let alone twenty will remember even remotely what Cas Anvar did to get fired but the gakky death they gave his character will still be there just as stinking fresh as it is today for those newly discovering the series. Instead, they should have made him come in and solo film some additional scenes to give his character some more meaning and a proper death scene. The character is not the actor. YMMV.
Spoiler:
The problem is that they're not doing it for people in five or twenty years, they're doing it so that people will watch the next season when it airs. The simple fact is that shows do pass or fail on public perception. That's not 'cancel culture', it's simply people refusing to support a douche. Hell, they could have simply written the character out of next season (What, Alex, yeah, he's on Mars doing... I dunno, something.) Instead, they gave him an exit that, while sudden, has an impact on the rest of the crew and will likely drive at least some of the story moving into the start of next season as they all deal with it.
I’d not heard what the news and fuss was before this, so I went in with no clue who was expected to die to missing the last season. Went and read up on it afterwards. Apparently they changed Fred’s death earlier in the season to be entirely different from the books. Our edited in death this episode was the same cause as Fred’s originally was, though in a different circumstance, so it’s not some Entirely random thing, it’s a very real risk from what he did. Makes me fine with using it as the way out.
I really loved the finale but it wasn't without its issues.
I guess this is due to the last minute edit as mentioned in previous posts.
Some parts felt rushed or disjointed but then again, having said that, it was great a finale and I can't wait for next season.
But next season, I think, will need more episodes or tighter writing.
10 episodes this season didn't feel enough. It was a really good season, possibly my favourite, with great character development but I felt this season focused way too much on some (Naomi, Amos and Drummer) to the detriment of others (Holden, Bobbie, Alex).
Even so, still my favourite show on TV and I loved this season.
Expanse continues to be good but def felt this was the weakest season by a long way - but when its competition is dog gak like Discovery then its going to shine mighty bright by comparison IMO
for me:
the good
Spoiler:
Amos and Peaches - good fun and great pay off at the end - although even this story was spun out a bit.
Drummers story - good character and liked the interplay with the crew
Space battles - really done well.
Given the situation with Alex - that was probably as good an ending for his character as we were going to get
Excellent ending scenes - all with none of the main cast
The bad
Spoiler:
Pacing - the whole Naomi plot was (for me) dull and mssively overlong and drawn out - I am at the point where i was hoping she would just blow the ship upo to save the others - something that apparently never occurred to her after all she did get Alex killed.....
Lack of context - usually they are very good at showing whats going on but they jumped around quite a bit without showing enough of the steps for our fav Sec General to regain power.
AduroT wrote: I’d not heard what the news and fuss was before this, so I went in with no clue who was expected to die to missing the last season. Went and read up on it afterwards. Apparently they changed Fred’s death earlier in the season to be entirely different from the books. Our edited in death this episode was the same cause as Fred’s originally was, though in a different circumstance, so it’s not some Entirely random thing, it’s a very real risk from what he did. Makes me fine with using it as the way out.
AduroT wrote: I’d not heard what the news and fuss was before this, so I went in with no clue who was expected to die to missing the last season. Went and read up on it afterwards. Apparently they changed Fred’s death earlier in the season to be entirely different from the books. Our edited in death this episode was the same cause as Fred’s originally was, though in a different circumstance, so it’s not some Entirely random thing, it’s a very real risk from what he did. Makes me fine with using it as the way out.
Well, Fred didn't die in the book.
Did he not? The article I read said he died of a stroke after a high g spaceship fight.
Did he not? The article I read said he died of a stroke after a high g spaceship fight.
He does, but it occurs during what would be Season 6 by the book timeline. There are some significant plot divergences between the books and show beginning to emerge.
Did he not? The article I read said he died of a stroke after a high g spaceship fight.
He does, but it occurs during what would be Season 6 by the book timeline. There are some significant plot divergences between the books and show beginning to emerge.
Having not read the books, I do like how the article framed the changes with his death. Raising the stakes and consequences on the station coup, spreading several things he did onto a few other characters so they could happen simultaneously and not need him traveling there, ect.
Can someone who read the books fill me in on the meaning of the final scene this season? Obviously, don't read below if you're adverse to spoilers.
Spoiler:
It looks like the Martian admiral's ship was incinerated at the molecular level instead of the normal ring gate translation. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reading too much into it. Obviously, I don't mind spoilers.
warboss wrote: Can someone who read the books fill me in on the meaning of the final scene this season? Obviously, don't read below if you're adverse to spoilers.
Spoiler:
It looks like the Martian admiral's ship was incinerated at the molecular level instead of the normal ring gate translation. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reading too much into it. Obviously, I don't mind spoilers.
Spoiler:
It is tied to the things that killed the proto- molecule creators.
warboss wrote: Can someone who read the books fill me in on the meaning of the final scene this season? Obviously, don't read below if you're adverse to spoilers.
Spoiler:
It looks like the Martian admiral's ship was incinerated at the molecular level instead of the normal ring gate translation. I just wanted to make sure I wasn't reading too much into it. Obviously, I don't mind spoilers.
Spoiler:
As stated, it's the Unknown Aggressors, IE: the enemy that wiped out the Builders, throwing a wrench in the works and destroying the Barkeith. They become a much larger part of the narrative in the later books, especially post the time skip that will happen in the narrative at the end of "Season 6" in the chronology.
The show isnt currently slated to deal with any of the post time skip events in a significant fashion, but it's nice to see them doing the world building to keep the universe alive all the same
Having Not read the books, or the above spoilers because he asked for book knowledge input, my interpretation is
Spoiler:
The aliens who are enemies of the Proto molecule aliens grabbed em up. There was reference at the beginning of this season to them, and Holden iirc being aware of/seeing them during ring transits. I imagine they were snatched because they were transporting the stolen proto molecule sample and the “enemies” decided they’d had enough of that.
Again, this is without me wanting knowledge of book events yet to pass.
I decided to wait till now and just finished binging the whole season. Liked it a lot, but wasn't a fan of the death in that last episode. Is it like that in the books? I always wonder if it's hollywood shenanigans where the actor wants to quit or does something to get fired or something.
Looking forward to season 6, guess it's a long long way off thanks to covid.
Necros wrote: I decided to wait till now and just finished binging the whole season. Liked it a lot, but wasn't a fan of the death in that last episode. Is it like that in the books? I always wonder if it's hollywood shenanigans where the actor wants to quit or does something to get fired or something.
Looking forward to season 6, guess it's a long long way off thanks to covid.
In the books, there are a whole lot of ships who disappear transiting the rings.
They call it "going Dutchman" after the Flying Dutchman legend. They just disappear and are never seen again.
Given that the protomolecule doesn't really destroy, it studies and reuses matter (it learns, and every molecule of it is quantum synced to each other, so when any part learns, they ALL know it) it's not much of a stretch if the enemy that killed the builders off couldn't do similar things.
We waited for all ten episodes to up and then watched two a night.
From this perspective the show was riveting viewing. Each episode seemed to just race along, leaving the ends on a cliff-hanger helps of course.
I thought, all things considered, Alex's death was well handled. It put the emphasis on the risk of doing Hi-gee burns, and was a real 'Walsh is dead' moment for us.
We go into season 6 knowing that a member of the main cast died. That really racks up the tension for the casual viewer.
Ah well, sucks the actor had to get himself fired, would have been nice to keep the team together till the end. I didn't even realize he actually died until the next scene when they were talking about it. But I guess they handled it the best way they could.
Necros wrote: Ah well, sucks the actor had to get himself fired, would have been nice to keep the team together till the end. I didn't even realize he actually died until the next scene when they were talking about it. But I guess they handled it the best way they could.
Other than actually filming him dying or at least the immediate precursor/circumstances of him dying (like the actual maneuver and its physical effects on both Bobby and him). Admittedly I didn't freeze frame and examine the scene on a big screen but it looked like a freeze frame with CG floating blood bubbles added in. I'd say that was only slightly better than dying in a flashback personally.
I thought, all things considered, Alex's death was well handled. It put the emphasis on the risk of doing Hi-gee burns, and was a real 'Walsh is dead' moment for us.
We go into season 6 knowing that a member of the main cast died. That really racks up the tension for the casual viewer.
I'd have agreed if they had shown the actual consequences in action or at least some cast interaction with finding the body. Imagine if Walsh's death was just a still shot of the spear through his chest and then a quick memorial speech afterwards. It felt like a quick "oh gak" after the fact add on in post with maybe a single day of reshoots with only other actors in response to the controversy.
They did show the maneuvers they got him killed. It’s was the catching up to and then matching the spin of Naomi’s ship. He comments afterward that it was one hell of a ride. A stroke isn’t a thing that instantly kills you though, at least not the immediate precursor. What likely happens is the high g’s cause blood to pool, if it was fancy maneuvers possibly something like the legs depending on your spins and directions. Clot forms and sits there. For the moment and immediately after you seem perfectly fine. Then the clot gets bumped loose some time later and finds it’s way thru the bloodstream to the brain. You’re not fine anymore, and depending on where that ends up you might just be done. Incidentally this is something that can happen to people who just sit for too long and it’s why they tell you to get up and stretch and walk around periodically.
I could go into a long reply with how I disagree and why but ultimately the crux of the issue for me is that they killed a main character off screen with his final words being at best repurposed cut or reused dialog. I don't personally consider that a fitting end for a character I liked.
It wasn't without it's faults, but I loved this season just as much as the rest of them. So, as someone who has not read the books (yet) am I correct in assuming that:
Spoiler:
The last scenes are of some sort of ancient warship being re-awakened by the ex-Martians?
After the ring system gates were activated, in S3, a whole lot of probes were sent through the gates, to see what was out there.
Most of them had ruins or remains of protomolecule tech. The world they named "Laconia" had handful of artifacts in ORBIT (the "stick moons") as well as an orbital shipyard and planetary remains. A partly finished warship was in the shipyard. It just needs protomolecule to activate it, and it has to be activated "properly" (or it goes Ilus). Which is why Babbage was grilling Alex on it - how Ilus was activated. In the books, this ship becomes one of their "Proteus" class ships.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Man, it sucks the the season ends with a Victory by Marco Inaros.
I really hope he has an appropriate ending
I actually quite liked that - made it more interesting.
I think its a shame that the actual war was underplayed for several hours of Naomi - after all earth did kill at least one entire space station full of people in retilation for the stealth rocks that killed millions.
Shades of grey is pretty much a calling card for the show with pretty much everyone but Holden having alot of blood on their hands.
Amos - well he's Amos so yeah
Noami has the ship she blew up
Peaches has the ship she blew up and everyone she killed on that path - ironically now she has turned over a new leaf if they had killed the four thug guys when she asked them not to - lot less people would have died.
Even my fav Chrissie has done plenty of stuff - IIRc the first scene with her is her torturing a belter.
Well have to say really enjoyed the season. I know it's very much personal but this is by far the best sci-fi series on TV for me at the moment, and really helped to highlight how weak Discovery has been (and I tried so hard to like that series) - really this just blows it away in every measure.
Highlights for me were the focus on Inaros and all of the back and forth between the different belters, specifically Drummer (who is just an awesome character) and her fighting her own desire for revenge and what is right against the continued survival of her group. Thought that was handled really well, and also the who split within the Belters (Fred Johnson being killed was a real shock). Also Naomi going back to her old team, again thought the emotional baggage of that was well done and especially with her old friends and her son, and it will be interesting to see how that will develop next season.
I was really shocked to hear that next season will be the final one especially as there are a few more books - can we assume that there will be some kind of truncated version of the books? I have only just caught up with season 4 with the books so don't know what turn they will take.
warboss wrote: I could go into a long reply with how I disagree and why but ultimately the crux of the issue for me is that they killed a main character off screen with his final words being at best repurposed cut or reused dialog. I don't personally consider that a fitting end for a character I liked.
Ah this really shows how subjective this stuff is. I liked how they did it. Wasn't drawn out, overblown, he was doing something that was a risk and then died. It was very sudden, similar to the medic guy (I forget his name) that died in the first season. I'm glad no pained expression and lying in someone's arms, see way to much of that in Hollywood, and they didn't overdo the sentimentality afterwards either.
I will miss the character being in it however, he had some good lines, had some depth to him and was a good companion to some of the other characters.
hotsauceman1 wrote: Man, it sucks the the season ends with a Victory by Marco Inaros.
I really hope he has an appropriate ending
I actually quite liked that - made it more interesting.
I think its a shame that the actual war was underplayed for several hours of Naomi - after all earth did kill at least one entire space station full of people in retilation for the stealth rocks that killed millions.
Shades of grey is pretty much a calling card for the show with pretty much everyone but Holden having alot of blood on their hands.
Amos - well he's Amos so yeah
Noami has the ship she blew up
Peaches has the ship she blew up and everyone she killed on that path - ironically now she has turned over a new leaf if they had killed the four thug guys when she asked them not to - lot less people would have died.
Even my fav Chrissie has done plenty of stuff - IIRc the first scene with her is her torturing a belter.
I think the biggest thing is that, unlike atleast Naomi and Christian, everything MArcos does is to feed his own ego. Nothing is done for any other reason than to feel his selfish desires to be the next head of the belt
hotsauceman1 wrote: I mean, he got Tasha Yar'ed
A meangingless death that served no purpose in the story and was only to get out an actory that might have done something.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
hotsauceman1 wrote: Man, it sucks the the season ends with a Victory by Marco Inaros.
I really hope he has an appropriate ending
I actually quite liked that - made it more interesting.
I think its a shame that the actual war was underplayed for several hours of Naomi - after all earth did kill at least one entire space station full of people in retilation for the stealth rocks that killed millions.
Shades of grey is pretty much a calling card for the show with pretty much everyone but Holden having alot of blood on their hands.
Amos - well he's Amos so yeah
Noami has the ship she blew up
Peaches has the ship she blew up and everyone she killed on that path - ironically now she has turned over a new leaf if they had killed the four thug guys when she asked them not to - lot less people would have died.
Even my fav Chrissie has done plenty of stuff - IIRc the first scene with her is her torturing a belter.
I think the biggest thing is that, unlike atleast Naomi and Christian, everything MArcos does is to feed his own ego. Nothing is done for any other reason than to feel his selfish desires to be the next head of the belt
Not sure - he is a fanatic and like many fanatics I think actually does believe he is doing this for the good of others - its part of the insanity of being a fanatic.
I did think it was kind interesting that Naomi did not seem to even consider blowing herself up to save her "family" coming to her.
Christian is the other side of the coin and I am pretty sure that if she felt it was the "right" thing to do she would have absolutely sent rocks at Earth, Mars whatever. She objects to Destroying the Belters stations because its not going to achieve the stated aims.
I was really shocked to hear that next season will be the final one especially as there are a few more books - can we assume that there will be some kind of truncated version of the books? I have only just caught up with season 4 with the books so don't know what turn they will take.
In the books
Spoiler:
There is a significant time jump after the point where the tv show is going to end. IIRC the show creators feel that it is a fitting place to end the tv show here as it largely concludes the character arcs for the principle cast. If the show was to continue the story in the books it would involve significantly aging up the main characters, and also making them supporting roles with new main characters. Quite a difficult transition for a TV show to attempt.
Hopefully if the show is popular enough there is scope for a sequel series to continue the story form the books.
It's the final season so I'm guessing (at least from reading the wiki pages when the last season was on) that they'll only cover stuff on this side of the gate as IIRC there was a big time jump afterwards in regards to what happens on the other side. Maybe they'll save that in part for a Serenity-style post-Firefly movie equivalent.
RIP Camina Drummer. Everyone loves Chrisjen's voice and I appreciate it as well, but Cara Gee's performance as Drummer is what sucked me into the show. I've seen very few characters as captivating as her on TV.
warboss wrote: Sorry but it is weekly on Fridays according to IMDB.
well flock me! Guess I'll resub in January and bingewatch all 6 then. There is nothing else on Amazon I'm even remotedly interested in. I mean I loved "Evil Aliens" B-movie and the vintage shlock thrillers are entertaining to watch when I'm tired, but other than those, Amazon's a ghost town for me..
warboss wrote: Sorry but it is weekly on Fridays according to IMDB.
well flock me! Guess I'll resub in January and bingewatch all 6 then. There is nothing else on Amazon I'm even remotedly interested in. I mean I loved "Evil Aliens" B-movie and the vintage shlock thrillers are entertaining to watch when I'm tired, but other than those, Amazon's a ghost town for me..
Then in that case you might want to mark Jan 14th on the calendar as that seems to be the last episode's premiere. And avoid the thread here because thar likely be spoilers in thread, matey! No idea why I did pirate voice since the belter pirates have a different accent but so be it.
I've done the same thing with shows that I was on the fence or coming back to see if they still suck during a free preview week (namely Star Trek) so I could nope out before they charged me for crappy programming. I don't expect that to be the case with the Expanse though but I've been disappointed before so.... That said, they do technically have the Wheel of Time series going on right now but the reception for that is quite mixed. I was turned off by the trailers that made it look closer to the CW mixed with the Marlon Waynes D&D movie more than LOTR so haven't watched it but have been following the reception online and with people I know. While there are obviously exceptions, it seems like if you're an existing fan who read the books you're more likely to not like it whereas if you're a "normie" who never read the books then you're more likely to look favorably on it since you don't know what you're missing. YMMV.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Breotan wrote: Six episodes seems pretty low to cover all the stuff that happens in the back half of Marco Inaros' "Free Navy" story.
Honestly, I think we're lucky that we're getting the season at all frankly. I just hope they won't Dan and Dave it like the GOT final season which also got a big per episode budget but a lower episode count.
warboss wrote: Honestly, I think we're lucky that we're getting the season at all frankly. I just hope they won't Dan and Dave it like the GOT final season which also got a big per episode budget but a lower episode count.
I think this is exactly what's happening. Fortunately, Daniel Abraham and Ty Franck are heavily involved so at least it won't be the utter feth-show that GoT's last season was.
trexmeyer wrote: RIP Camina Drummer. Everyone loves Chrisjen's voice and I appreciate it as well, but Cara Gee's performance as Drummer is what sucked me into the show. I've seen very few characters as captivating as her on TV.
This just made me do a frenzied search on Google, thought that it was some bad news :(
trexmeyer wrote: RIP Camina Drummer. Everyone loves Chrisjen's voice and I appreciate it as well, but Cara Gee's performance as Drummer is what sucked me into the show. I've seen very few characters as captivating as her on TV.
This just made me do a frenzied search on Google, thought that it was some bad news :(
Oh, no! Sorry! Haha. Given how wildly different Cara Gee is from her role of Camina Drummer I somewhat doubt that she'll do something similar unless she gets typecast.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Thoughts on episode 1 of season 6.
Dog alien thing is cute.
Bobbie's hairline is clean AF.
Chrisjen's voice remains impossibly seductive.
IMO, the progression of Peaches has been great.
James Holden remains the least interesting aspect of the show.
Marco's actor still isn't good enough for the role. A key difference between him and Drummer (Cara Gee) is that she can emote very well with her eyes and subtle facial expressions. He looks the same all the damn time.
How does Amos keep his fade so fresh when they spend weeks-months at a time in space?
Phillip is quick on the draw.
Aside from that, I have no opinion on the writing quality until it progresses further. Episode 1 didn't do much IMO, but the series has been floundering since s3 in my eyes.
Edit: It did occur to me post-episode that The Expanse as a series has very few moments or episodes that are as memorable as anything from DS9, Babylon 5, BSG (the reimagined series), or even S:AAB (specifically The Angriest Angel and Who Monitors the Birds?). It's a show that soundly occupies "it's good enough" territory but never steps into greatness for me.
Differences from the books mean nothing to me as I have not read them. Also, I was waiting for that cute alien thing, which to me looked liked a python’s head, to just open up and swallow that kid. Especially when the bird started screaming I was like oh that bird knows what’s up, but apparently it had just gotten hurt somehow? I missed what happened there.
I thought the girl was going to get eaten as she behaving like a trained xenologist in Promethus...but she had an excuse..
Everyone is good - nice that Alex's death has had an impact if only to make Naomi more a self obessed whiny b%&th - nice that Amos is actually calling her out on her continuing BS.
"Chrissie" remains a very soild asset to the show.
The Philip storyline is a bit more interesting now
Good starting episode - looking forward to more.
Its a really impressive series for me - especially when you compare it to trash like Discovery (IMO)
Yeah, I was expecting a moment like that similar to Newman in Jurassic Park.
The only non-realistic thing (admittedly in a fictional adaptation of a work of scifi) was
Spoiler:
that Earth didn't rain holy hell on the entire belt in response to dozens of asteroid strikes over months. I know they said the fleets were tied up defending Earth but math is a thing. If a bunch of beltalowdas can do the calculations to send asteroids into Earth then the Earth military can do strikes with those same railguns that are shooting the asteroids or do their own stealth strikes with guided munitions. It's not like the Belters can move the giant asteroids they're on and a few railgun rounds into the various stations would send the appropriate message back when Earth is literally facing extinction because of the attacks. I liked it better when Avasarala was more of a badass in the early seasons and I think they're trying to make to the "good" girl too much for my tastes. It doesn't feel right either in general or for her character specifically that Earth only blew up one belter station as a response to multiple megaton genocidal strikes. YMMV.
Yeah it may take a while for the various species to work it out though.
It also means humans have to rely on stuff they can bring with them - either importing food directly in the short term or treating soil with earth bacteria etc so they can grow earth crops in it.
I've never read the books, but 1/3rd into this season and i'm kinda puzzled as to how this could end in any satisfying way with 4 episodes left. That 45ish miniute episode felt like 20 minutes. Maybe if the last episode runs at least 60-90 minutes. I've enjoyed these first 2 episodes though.
Thargrim wrote: I've never read the books, but 1/3rd into this season and i'm kinda puzzled as to how this could end in any satisfying way with 4 episodes left. That 45ish miniute episode felt like 20 minutes. Maybe if the last episode runs at least 60-90 minutes. I've enjoyed these first 2 episodes though.
This one felt long to me as a mostly buildup episode. Yes, the Roci accomplished a mission but it too was basically a buildup rather than its own thing with a real resolution. This sounds like a complaint but I understand that in order to properly pay off the entire series that some episodes need to be mostly build up.
For those who have read the books...
Spoiler:
Is the C story with the girl/animals on the colony planet important? It felt like filler so far that didn't need two separate extended scenes just to flex cgi animal muscles and less than stellar kid acting. I'd rather have more time with Avrasarala personally.
It's setup for events of books 7-9, which implies that Amazon does have some sort of plans to cover that in the future and not just stop at the end of this series. It's taken from the side novella "Strange Dogs" rather than the main books.
It's setup for events of books 7-9, which implies that Amazon does have some sort of plans to cover that in the future and not just stop at the end of this series. It's taken from the side novella "Strange Dogs" rather than the main books.
Thanks. I'll look that one up as I'm not averse to spoilers generally (or specifically with this show as I looked up the books last season).
Automatically Appended Next Post: edit: Seems like an odd choice given its a recent (2017) publication and the show ending. At least from the wiki, it doesn't really tie into the main story at all and I'm not convinced starting a new thread is the best idea right now even given the possibility of B5/Firefly/Stargate style post series follow up films.
They've shown key parts of the novellas and short stories in the main seasons prior to this one.
The story of Solomon Epstein's enhanced fusion drive ( the short story "drive") which allowed Mars to first declare independence from Earth - or the story of "the butcher of Anderson station" to introduce Fred Johnson on Tycho, for example. Strange Dogs is just the latest of those, but it ties into how different life is on Laconia.
@Warboss: Amazon have zero say in what else comes for The expanse after this season. They don't OWN the show - Alcon entertainment does and always has. Amazon only financed a couple of seasons. Like Sci-fi and netflix before it.
If anything else comes after this, it won't be amazon unless they pony up the moolah.
chromedog wrote: @Warboss: Amazon have zero say in what else comes for The expanse after this season. They don't OWN the show - Alcon entertainment does and always has. Amazon only financed a couple of seasons. Like Sci-fi and netflix before it.
If anything else comes after this, it won't be amazon unless they pony up the moolah.
I know and agree. I was speaking generally about the end of the show and possibilities of future follow-ups. I hadn't heard though that Netflix was involved in the past. Did they pay syfy for it in return for streaming rights or something?
It was after Syfy dropped it (they wanted more say in distribution - they had the USA only. Space had it in Canada, and netflix had it for a bunch of other places - including Australia, after they expanded to include us - but they only started airing S1-3 AFTER Syfy had finished those seasons here. starting in 2017.)
Big Mac wrote: That girl on Lacondia is annoying, why is she getting air time? The ET should of ate her.
I agree. It's definitely the weakest c-plot of the series for me.
I assume it will be important - I would have thought that if the scientists know that the wildlife is poisonous to humans and vice versa they might tell the children so they don't eat some berries or something.....
Otherwise its going well and nicely building up although Holden will defiantely regret
Spoiler:
not killing Marco and his son when he could given that he seems to be about to have a fleet of alien tech ships at his command
The girl (and her brother) is more important in the books, but this is just the inclusion of the short story plot of "strange dogs", where it fits in the narrative.
"Broken" things on Laconia have a habit of getting 'fixed' if there is sufficient protomolecule around (and when they brought the sample from Sol to Laconia, it woke up a lot of stuff, just like in S4, but there was no "Miller" poking buttons.). In the books, there is a decree that dead bodies on Laconia are to be INCINERATED for this reason.
Oooh.
Spoiler:
Protomolecule enhanced railguns they showed Marco.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I am officially sick of mopey indecisive Filip. Don't even care if he lives or dies now.
Insert snickers meme with animated GIF of Filip here.
I understand why Holden supposedly disarmed the warhead but I find that motivation so mind numbingly stupid that only a Hollywood writer would think they're being morale in writing it. The guy literally is killing millions on Earth (with tens of millions likely due to famine/starvation in the decades to come due to the quasi-nuclear winter) and he lets the literal head of the genocidal terrorist movement go because Naomi's son photobombed the comms. That's my current pet peeve along with the slow pacing and unnecessary cgi animals/kid C-plot.
AduroT wrote: I can forgive Holdon making a stupid emotional decision in the heat of the moment. He’s been pretty consistently guided by/ acted on them.
yep - Him and Naomi both....lets face it her son was having no issues firing missiles at them....but its in keeping with their characters - people do stupid things.
Plus I think Holden is assuming the worst is over. And is apparently VERY wrong
I am officially sick of mopey indecisive Filip. Don't even care if he lives or dies now.
Had more than enough of both him and his mother for at least two seasons now
I've not read the books, but with only 2 episodes to go it feels like there's still way too much story to cover.
And every moment spent on the kid & alian animals just wastes the remaining time.
So are the last two episodes going to be some sort of giant montage trying desperately to wrap things up? Or are they going to amble along at the current pace & just.... end?
The fact they're doing the Laconia stuff implies to me that they have some confidence that they'll be able to cover books 7-9 in some format in the future - either as series or movies.
I suspect they're just leaving breadcrumbs for the future though I don't know if there are any concrete plans. Nothing that I've heard of through the fandom rumor mill at least.
So I’m betting Inaros yet dies from that missile Holden deactivated. They make a point of telling us that they’re keeping that warhead and sticking it with the rest of theirs. I wonder what process is involved in removing Holden’s remote access to its detonator and if they disconnected that.
AduroT wrote: So I’m betting Inaros yet dies from that missile Holden deactivated. They make a point of telling us that they’re keeping that warhead and sticking it with the rest of theirs. I wonder what process is involved in removing Holden’s remote access to its detonator and if they disconnected that.
AduroT wrote: So I’m betting Inaros yet dies from that missile Holden deactivated. They make a point of telling us that they’re keeping that warhead and sticking it with the rest of theirs. I wonder what process is involved in removing Holden’s remote access to its detonator and if they disconnected that.
Or Inaros kills someone else with it - more guilt
If he fired it at someone else I don’t know that Holden would get to know where it came from. Like I’m imagining a scene where they’re cornered and it’s Inaros with a chance to fire a kill shot on a crippled Rocy and Holden gets a little Bluetooth connection notification as the warhead comes back into range/is armed and its like Well then… **boop**
AduroT wrote: So I’m betting Inaros yet dies from that missile Holden deactivated. They make a point of telling us that they’re keeping that warhead and sticking it with the rest of theirs. I wonder what process is involved in removing Holden’s remote access to its detonator and if they disconnected that.
Or Inaros kills someone else with it - more guilt
If he fired it at someone else I don’t know that Holden would get to know where it came from. Like I’m imagining a scene where they’re cornered and it’s Inaros with a chance to fire a kill shot on a crippled Rocy and Holden gets a little Bluetooth connection notification as the warhead comes back into range/is armed and its like Well then… **boop**
Yeah I can also imagine Inaros using as a bomb - killing thousands and sending Holden a message going - cheers mate could not have done it without you.
Mr Nobody wrote: I think Holden made the right choice with Inaros, I wouldn't even hide it. It would make Inoras look weak, being alive at the mercy of an earther.
A dead Inoras is a major threat removed - he and his second seem to to be the organisers - take them out the whole things falls apart and splits back up into warring factions.
Mr Nobody wrote: I think Holden made the right choice with Inaros, I wouldn't even hide it. It would make Inoras look weak, being alive at the mercy of an earther.
A dead Inoras is a major threat removed - he and his second seem to to be the organisers - take them out the whole things falls apart and splits back up into warring factions.
Looking forward to seeing what happens on Sunday
Honestly? Not much. It's of two varieties:
1) stuff that would've been interesting if developed over time - but instead will just be speed through in the final episode.
2) stuff that doesn't matter at all to the current plot & will matter even less if there's not some sort of continuation of the series somehow/somewhere.
So i've got mixed feelings on that finale. Not as bad as game of thrones, and I was entertained throughout. But it wrapped up a bit too neat and open in some ways. I expected more consequences and deaths, things kinda wrapped up too nice and tidy in some ways.
The way this season was filmed was as if they do expect to continue it in the future. But if they don't, a lot of the time spent in this season would have been better spent elsewhere with the characters that mattered. That is a pretty big gamble on their part.
Well in the books there's a time jump after this, right? I think that's what this aims to set up, but does so in a way that if it doesn't, then it's ok, because the story was resolved.
Either way, I thought it was exciting. Edge of my seat for most of it, especially the assault on the ring station. I liked where all the characters ended up, especially my fav character, Drummer!
Only disappointment was that the super duper elite strike team didn't really do anything except get shot up.
Of course, did you spot the names of the strike team members?
I was surprised at the slow pacing of the season when lots of commentary was how they had to cut it down and make it shorter. They did have me thinking Drummer was toast so happy how things turned out for her!
H.B.M.C. wrote: Either way, I thought it was exciting. Edge of my seat for most of it, especially the assault on the ring station. I liked where all the characters ended up, especially my fav character, Drummer!
Yeah, well... with the sole exception of that fether Filip.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Either way, I thought it was exciting. Edge of my seat for most of it, especially the assault on the ring station. I liked where all the characters ended up, especially my fav character, Drummer!
Yeah, well... with the sole exception of that fether Filip.
Yeah, when we saw dad bite it and there was not a single shot of him I’d figured he was no longer on the ship somehow.
So assuming this Doesn’t get picked up for more seasons, does the series here give you the relevant information needed to pick the story up with book seven?
AduroT wrote: So assuming this Doesn’t get picked up for more seasons, does the series here give you the relevant information needed to pick the story up with book seven?
Sort of? There's a fair bit of changes to make the medium change work, like condensing a few characters (Drummer, for instance), and of course Alex isn't dead in the books. Haven't watched the last season due to utterly loathing the Marcos arc, but in general you should be able to hop over without too much difficulty?
I have mixed feelings on the finale. I'd have preferred less seizure inducing space pew pew (just because Amazon is throwing money at you doesn't mean you have to spend it on vfx!) and a more personalized ending to the main villain but it is what it is. It's not bad per se but not particularly good either... which frankly encapsulates my feelings on the final season as a whole.
There are sooooo many fans bitter and salty that the show is ending at S6.
JSAC adapted the episodes for TV.
They wrote them to end in S6.
So in essence, "That's all they wrote, the fat lady has sung her last, and the space opera is over."
There won't be any more unless some other rich old white guy picks it up, and I'm not putting my money on it.
But letting go has always been something that fan groups have shown they are unable to do.
I guess that qualifies as a squad of ultimate badasses?!
Overall I think the end was fine, if a little rushed. I don’t know that there’s enough to justify an extra episode, but I think they could have given this one another 20 minutes for the wrap up montage at the end, so it felt less like they were just skipping through it.
I thought it worked well - nice to leave a bit of mystery and opportunity for more but the main charatcers story has finished
It looked good and had all the principal players behaving as they should.
the not so good
Spoiler:
The little Philp brat escaping for absolutely no reason. That was annoying.
And yeah the wave to Aliens and the rest was a nice touch indeed - I only caught the Aliens first time so thanks for the screen grab
Having read the books, one thing I was confused about was the sequence on the planet, with the weird dog things and animals (then boy) that get brought back to life with the proto molecule.
It's a while since I read that book but from memory was that sequence in them? I definitely found it a bit confusing in the TV series, and questionable whether it was needed (was it to connect to Marcos getting hold of the proto molecule or something?)
I did wonder if it was a sequence from a later book, and they included it in this series to leave a couple of hooks there - just in case there was another series some years down the road.
Given how little the molecule featured in this season, I kind of imagine it was just to remind you it was a thing and not gone since it was their extra fantasy sci-fi hook.
Pacific wrote: Having read the books, one thing I was confused about was the sequence on the planet, with the weird dog things and animals (then boy) that get brought back to life with the proto molecule.
It's a while since I read that book but from memory was that sequence in them? I definitely found it a bit confusing in the TV series, and questionable whether it was needed (was it to connect to Marcos getting hold of the proto molecule or something?)
I did wonder if it was a sequence from a later book, and they included it in this series to leave a couple of hooks there - just in case there was another series some years down the road.
It's a standalone short story, not from the mainline novels. It's there to lay the foundation if/when a future Laconia project happens, and help close out some of the S5 story threads about the Martian defection.
The dog things (repair drones) are from the short story "Strange dogs" - which is set around that time - not from the main novels.
They were dormant on Laconia (because protomolecule tech on all the worlds in the ring gate system did this after the "war" that killed off the 'ring builders' ). When the martians brough an active protomolecule sample back on-world, they - like other Proto-tech left behind, started to 'wake up'. Like the "orbital shipyard factories" (the books call them "the stick moons").
This is where Laconia built (technically, got the yards to 'grow' them) the enhanced railguns that were used on the Sol gate station and where their battleships are being built.
The "repaired" kids are an important step in how the protomolecule tech adapts and learns.
From the 'vomit zombies' on Eros, to the more self-aware Protoform Juli Mao, the "enhanced" child weapons, the "investigator" recovering from vestiges of Miller caught in the gestalt of the protomolecule; to Kara and Xan, the kids in "Strange Dogs".
If they do ever make the remaining books into more of the TV show, I really hope they're as close to the story as this past 6 seasons were.
If y’all’s are interested this is getting the continuing comic treatment, picking up where the show left off. No idea how close it’ll follow book plot, but it’s definitely using the show’s given the referenced character death.
The Expanse: Dragon Tooth, issue 1 of 12, came out this week.