From Garro on FB -

It appears that the combat patrol boxset that will be coming with the blood angels supplement in December has been leaked.

Primaris Librarian, 3x Primaris Aggressors, 5x Primaris Intercessors, Primaris Infiltrators/Incursors & a Primaris Impulsor (plus a couple of upgrade sprues).

EDIT: Already mentioned in the existing Necron and Space Marine Codex and upcoming releases discussion thread...

The box has grown on me a little. I'm not a big fan of Incursors but I suppose a 5 man squad is fine. I dislike most Primaris tanks so I'm not overjoyed about the Impulsor. Sad to see more Aggressors, I'm hoping for a CP marine box with Supressors or Inceptors at some point. No complaints about the Librarian or the Intercessors. I think I'll wait to see what DA /UM / IH / WS / IF get before I buy anything.

If you don't like Incursors, you can still build Infiltrators. This box definitely has grown on me with the 5x Intercessors. Librarian is "meh" to me as are the BA parts but the rest is stuff I don't have(Impulsor) or don't have much of (Intercessors and Gravis).

I'm just not keen on Phobos in general, except Reivers, which I think are cool. And as people are saying in the other thread, the red / yellow colour combo doesn't do them any favours. Still, having a small squad in the colours of my choice seems ok on reflection.

JWBS wrote:
The box has grown on me a little. I'm not a big fan of Incursors but I suppose a 5 man squad is fine. I dislike most Primaris tanks so I'm not overjoyed about the Impulsor. Sad to see more Aggressors, I'm hoping for a CP marine box with Supressors or Inceptors at some point. No complaints about the Librarian or the Intercessors. I think I'll wait to see what DA /UM / IH / WS / IF get before I buy anything.

You won't see a box with the Ugliest Primaris Jump Infantry until they get a release outside of the Shadowspear sprues.

Inceptors instead of Aggressors might be possible, though. Possibly as part of the DA patrol, with them built as the plasma version?

Yeah I actually meant the snipers, I know they've got a proper kit that could go into a CP box. Yes Inceptors might be good for DA, or maybe even Hellblasters.

Honestly, I'm surprised that the BA set comes with Hellblasters. I thought they'd come with DA. I'm thinking that the DA one will have a Redemptor or a Executioner.

IF and IH also good candidates for the Redemptor / some sort of tank.

Shame they're expensive, but buying this and the deathwatch one might be a good start for just a basic primaries force.

I haven't been keeping up with 40k much, but I'm glad GW hasnt retconned the yellow and blue helmets from Blood Angel specialists. For me the 2E color scheme is always going to be the right one, with black shoulder trim and yellow insignia for sergeants :-P

I like the blue dev heads, not so much the yellow though.

Personally, it feels like the multicoloured helmets are a relic from the days when everything was brightly coloured and on a bright green base. It looked awful then and it looks awful now.

As a rule, first founding chapters look better in their Heresy colours.

But that’s just my opinion.

I've got like 5k of blood angels and have never gone in for the blue/yellow/gold helmets, it's bad. Red all the way.

Except for the tank this is all crap I already have multiple times so it's a pass

Well, I have no idea if they will be following suit with the other boxes, but if this box also happens to be 140 USD it would actually be a pretty good deal.

As much as I wanted the Warsuit from the Space Wolves box, I'm glad I held off after seeing the Blood Angels one. I'll happily buy this one for my Silver Templars.

I will love this box, because getting Librarians and Impulsors at a discount is great, and I can use all the other units too.

Blood Angels vet from 2nd ed here... and this box is a pass for me.
There doesn't seem to be much on offer here for existing players - all the units here have been available for a while now, and they don't reeeeally synergise that well together to be worth the discount, unless you already had your eye on all the units anyway.
Besides that - it's not really a very Blood Angel-y box, is it...? Intercessors and the Impulsor are fine I suppose, and flamer Aggressors are a step in the right direction. But a Librarian is rarely our first HQ choice (behind a Captain or a Chaplain) and Incursors aren't exactly the assault troops GW seems to want to pretend they are - Assault Intercessors would have been much better.
Meanwhile there's absolutely nothing here that sells the BA flavour, for instance Death Company. I'm also not seeing any evidence of an upgrade sprue in the box, which is a big mis-step. (edited because apparently I'm overdue a visit to the optician...)

I guess I'm not exactly the target market here. But if the intent is to sell this to new players it's taking their collection in a direction away from what you might expect a Blood Angels army to look like. (And for what it's worth, I have the same misgivings about the SW and DW boxes.)

 Super Ready wrote:
Meanwhile there's absolutely nothing here that sells the BA flavour, for instance Death Company. I'm also not seeing any evidence of an upgrade sprue in the box, which is a big mis-step.

At least one of the Intercessors is rocking an embossed BA shoulder pad, so there's at least one upgrade sprue in the box, probably two.

Intercessor Sgt in the one they use on the photo of the actual upgrade kit I think.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
Meanwhile there's absolutely nothing here that sells the BA flavour, for instance Death Company. I'm also not seeing any evidence of an upgrade sprue in the box, which is a big mis-step.

At least one of the Intercessors is rocking an embossed BA shoulder pad, so there's at least one upgrade sprue in the box, probably two.

One, I would think. It would cover the Intercessors and Aggressors (and those pads are visible, and the intercessor sgt has chainsword, pistol and a bare head), and nothing else in the box has bits (that I can see).
The BA sprue has a 6th standard shoulder pad, so you could pop it on the Librarian if you want to.

Ah, good spot - and it would actually match the SW box having theirs. Ok, I'll retract that particular criticism then.

So we're clear, it's probably two sets of the upgrade kit which would mean four sprues.

 Kanluwen wrote:
So we're clear, it's probably two sets of the upgrade kit which would mean four sprues.

The Blood Angels Primaris upgrade only contains a single sprue, not two like the later versions.

Why would there be more than 1 upgrade sprue? The sprue has 6 regular pads and 3 larger pads, enough to exactly cover the minis in the box that can have them.

The Infiltrator/Incursors don't take the same pads.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
So we're clear, it's probably two sets of the upgrade kit which would mean four sprues.

The Blood Angels Primaris upgrade only contains a single sprue, not two like the later versions.

good to know then! Is there enough for hellblasters and intercessors and librarian?

 Kanluwen wrote:
good to know then! Is there enough for hellblasters and intercessors and librarian?

What Hellblasters?

The BA box has slightly more expensive stuff than the SW box (Repulsor, Librarian, and Aggressors vs Invictor, Lieutenant, and Reivers), so stingier upgrade sprues seems reasonable.

There's 9 per sprue / frame, so there's enough for the box (link) -

 Super Ready wrote:
Blood Angels vet from 2nd ed here... and this box is a pass for me.
There doesn't seem to be much on offer here for existing players - all the units here have been available for a while now, and they don't reeeeally synergise that well together to be worth the discount, unless you already had your eye on all the units anyway.
Besides that - it's not really a very Blood Angel-y box, is it...? Intercessors and the Impulsor are fine I suppose, and flamer Aggressors are a step in the right direction. But a Librarian is rarely our first HQ choice (behind a Captain or a Chaplain) and Incursors aren't exactly the assault troops GW seems to want to pretend they are - Assault Intercessors would have been much better.
Meanwhile there's absolutely nothing here that sells the BA flavour, for instance Death Company. I'm also not seeing any evidence of an upgrade sprue in the box, which is a big mis-step. (edited because apparently I'm overdue a visit to the optician...)

I guess I'm not exactly the target market here. But if the intent is to sell this to new players it's taking their collection in a direction away from what you might expect a Blood Angels army to look like. (And for what it's worth, I have the same misgivings about the SW and DW boxes.)

right blood angels aren't big on librarians, despite being the only chapter with libby dreadnoughts and being a founding member of the librarius during the great crusade era. and Incursors ARE a solid melee unit. they have 2 AP -1 attacks, that's as good as assault intercessors and assault Marines. Also the box includes death company...
or did you forget that death company intercessors are a thing now?

Incursors don't get the extra chainsword attack that Assault Intercessors do, nor their 'fight twice' strat, and they're also miles behind almost every other combat unit the Codex unit has to offer (the exceptions being Reavers - ugh - and Assault Marines without jump packs - double ugh). So no - I don't agree that Incursors are a core assault unit for the Chapter. Also... splitting hairs here I know, considering they're both "new" units, but... they just don't seem as iconic for Blood Angels as the Assault Intercessors would, either.

I'd still argue for a Chaplain in the box over a Librarian as they're just as important to the BA fluff-wise, and they usually work better for us on the table. I do see your point there, I'm just not convinced.

The Death Company Intercessors... that one, I'll give you, that's a good point. Though considering we know the studio army has them painted already, and standard Intercessors fulfils the second Troops requirement, it's arguable that wasn't the intent here.

 Super Ready wrote:
Incursors don't get the extra chainsword attack that Assault Intercessors do, nor their 'fight twice' strat, and they're also miles behind almost every other combat unit the Codex unit has to offer (the exceptions being Reavers - ugh - and Assault Marines without jump packs - double ugh). So no - I don't agree that Incursors are a core assault unit for the Chapter. Also... splitting hairs here I know, considering they're both "new" units, but... they just don't seem as iconic for Blood Angels as the Assault Intercessors would, either.

I'd still argue for a Chaplain in the box over a Librarian as they're just as important to the BA fluff-wise, and they usually work better for us on the table. I do see your point there, I'm just not convinced.

The Death Company Intercessors... that one, I'll give you, that's a good point. Though considering we know the studio army has them painted already, and standard Intercessors fulfils the second Troops requirement, it's arguable that wasn't the intent here.

assault intercessors are simply too new (if they are avaliable when the BA CP is they';ll be a brand new box) so it makes sense they're not in the box, I agree it'd be nice if they where but I can see the reason.

Also Incursors aren't the best CC unit I agree, but they're definatly a solid "hybrid" unit.

Nah, as someone that is currently painting up some Death Company, I'd say you really need the extra paraphernalia to make them proper DC. Just giving them the paint scheme doesn't really cut it (for me at least, others may disagree).

For my DC Intercessors, I’m gonna be using Assault Intercessors, DC shoulder pads and Reiver skull masks (without the helmet, just the skull masks). I think that should make decent looking DC. (Hopefully)

But anyway, the box isn’t too bad for us. My only disappointment is Aggressors instead of Inceptors and no Assault Intercessors, though I understand why they aren’t in there.

BrianDavion wrote:
assault intercessors are simply too new (if they are avaliable when the BA CP is they';ll be a brand new box) so it makes sense they're not in the box, I agree it'd be nice if they where but I can see the reason.
Also Incursors aren't the best CC unit I agree, but they're definatly a solid "hybrid" unit.

That seems like a much fairer assessment. ...still, I'm not about to rush out and buy a box.

JWBS wrote:
Nah, as someone that is currently painting up some Death Company, I'd say you really need the extra paraphernalia to make them proper DC. Just giving them the paint scheme doesn't really cut it (for me at least, others may disagree).

Maybe but right now we're in the early stages of primaris, I'd not be suprised if EVENTUALLY death company intercessors, hounds of Mokai and vetern intercessors all got a unique kit down the line

Do they plan to make a "Combat patrol" for each chapter when all the chapters shares the same primaris miniature? Each box can be used for each chapter!"

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Do they plan to make a "Combat patrol" for each chapter when all the chapters shares the same primaris miniature? Each box can be used for each chapter!"

I mean if it means space marines have 8 discount boxes I'm ok with this!

in all seriousness though it'll proably be just the 4 chapters getting a supplement and then GW'll take stock from there, it's worth noting that of the 3 boxes we know of, both the SW and BA box conveniantly includes a kit that can be repurposed as a specialist unit.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
Do they plan to make a "Combat patrol" for each chapter when all the chapters shares the same primaris miniature? Each box can be used for each chapter!"

It looks like they're replacing the Start Collecting boxes with them - both the Deathwatch and Primaris Space Wolves ones have gone from the store.

BrianDavion wrote:
I mean if it means space marines have 8 discount boxes I'm ok with this!

Of course you are ok with Space Marines having 8 discount boxes, when other armies have none.

well gw need to somehow SHIFT reiveerrrrrm sorry hounds of morkai...

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I mean if it means space marines have 8 discount boxes I'm ok with this!

Of course you are ok with Space Marines having 8 discount boxes, when other armies have none.

of course you immediatly see this as some sort of "denial to other armies"

it must be tiresome carrying all that envy around. Might wanna drop it.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I mean if it means space marines have 8 discount boxes I'm ok with this!

Of course you are ok with Space Marines having 8 discount boxes, when other armies have none.

I supposed all those start collecting boxes for other factions are something I imagined. Right?

Dudeface wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

BrianDavion wrote:
I mean if it means space marines have 8 discount boxes I'm ok with this!

Of course you are ok with Space Marines having 8 discount boxes, when other armies have none.

I supposed all those start collecting boxes for other factions are something I imagined. Right?

these are combat patrol boxes after all, it's hardly a zero sum game. it doesn't get any ahrder for GW to shove some Orks in a box because they've shoved some intercessors in a box.

Dudeface wrote:
I supposed all those start collecting boxes for other factions are something I imagined. Right?

I didn't say no other factions had any. I said some other factions had none. Show me the Start Collecting Sisters of Battle box, for instance.


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BrianDavion wrote:
it must be tiresome carrying all that envy around.

Yeah I sure would love it if GW removed the need for it!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
I supposed all those start collecting boxes for other factions are something I imagined. Right?

I didn't say no other factions had any. I said some other factions had none. Show me the Start Collecting Sisters of Battle box, for instance.


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BrianDavion wrote:
it must be tiresome carrying all that envy around.

Yeah I sure would love it if GW removed the need for it!

You aren't crying loud enough, GW can't hear you.

Why GW keeps pushing Aggressors? You'd really think BA would prefer Inceptors. ETB box killed sales that much?

Please observe rule 1

Anyone expecting GW to consistently give a tuppenny cuddle about any non-Marine factions at this point is just setting themselves for disappointment. It does happen - Necrons are evidence of this - but it's so rare and inconsistent that you might as well not bother.

 Irbis wrote:
You should buy glasses because other armies have 30+ start collecting sets which are vastly better deal than the garbage patrol boxes.

Where is the Sisters of Battle 30+ Start Collecting sets that are vastly better deal than the garbage patrol boxes?

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Where is the Sisters of Battle 30+ Start Collecting sets that are vastly better deal than the garbage patrol boxes?

Only one example, for an army that only had its refresh a year ago, meaning GW are probably still keen to get people buying the boxes at full price. It's not exactly evidence of "Marine favouritism", if anything it would be evidence of Sisters discrimination.
Do you have any other examples?

Well, we've seen the new Sisters Palatine model




Seems almost a given she'll be in either a Christmas bundle or, more probably, a "Combat Patrol" released with a new Sisters Codex.

 Super Ready wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Where is the Sisters of Battle 30+ Start Collecting sets that are vastly better deal than the garbage patrol boxes?

Only one example, for an army that only had its refresh a year ago, meaning GW are probably still keen to get people buying the boxes at full price. It's not exactly evidence of "Marine favouritism", if anything it would be evidence of Sisters discrimination.
Do you have any other examples?

no other faction beyond SM + colours have more then 1 box. that was oxayotls point. allbeit you COULD argue that CSM with DG, TS and CSM are just as much one faction. however they don't share one dex unlike the now consolidated SM, depends upon your counting off Supplements.

Still neither Orks nor Tyranids, etc have more then 1 box for a subaction.

They've only had a consolidated book for six minutes though, so what's even the point of saying that aside from discrediting you and your argument as disingenuous?

/also - Guard has two.

JWBS wrote:
They've only had a consolidated book for six minutes though, so what's even the point of saying that aside from discrediting you and your argument as disingenuous?

GW lists ALL of these under one , their wholly own, category. which would , technically, qualify for asking the question IF there should've been one baseline box instead.

So a technicality of categorisation? Ok.

JWBS wrote:
So a technicality of categorisation? Ok.

like i said, depends upon you counting and GW.
Never stated it was my opinion.

Frankly i think the Combat patrol boxes are a step backwards, for all custommers, so that isn't a release i'd be happy with and it is a developpment that will expand further, which is a step back for all factions. (the old SC's were easier to buy multiple for expanding allready existing options, this is a box that you buy once and then are pretty done for usefullness. some SC's also kinda suffered from this soo yeah, still the pricepoint is probably intended that players are more likely to weigh up oppurtunity cost and buy full release other boxes instead of multiple discount boxes, meaning more £$CHF for GW.)

Sm just , as allways, get the first of these new buissness models thrown at.

Not Online!!! wrote:

JWBS wrote:
They've only had a consolidated book for six minutes though, so what's even the point of saying that aside from discrediting you and your argument as disingenuous?

GW lists ALL of these under one , their wholly own, category. which would , technically, qualify for asking the question IF there should've been one baseline box instead.

They are still separate books though.

Why should a book not qualify for a box to go with it, just because it says "Codex Supplement" instead of "Codex" on the cover?

If anything, you probably need a deeper/more committed pool of customers for a (sub-)faction to sell "Codex + Codex Supplement (+ Starter box)" than to sell "Codex (+ Starter box)", as the entry barrier is higher.

or, you are deciding on cashing in on the factions that get's picked up the fastest and expand the requirements for more miliking of that custommer base..

whatever it is, i don't think these new combat patroll boxes are an improvement out of a custommer perspective AND retail.

Personally I don't think the new boxes are such terrible value, having already had my fill of the old SC boxes I'm looking forward to the new variation of discounts provided by CP boxes (whether they are worse value or not is debatable). I do think they're looking slightly worse for new players though, and I also suspect that GW's booming success over the past few years has been tied to their higher-than-usual value offerings for new customers / people starting new games and armies, so I do question the move a bit. I don't think these particular boxes are the most egregious thing they've ever done, so in a way it's kind of funny seeing the vitriol (does anyone remember when you couldn't get a discount on literally anything they sold, like, ever? Is that just me that remembers this??). I do have to look sideways at their obvious price creep over the last year nonetheless.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why should a book not qualify for a box to go with it, just because it says "Codex Supplement" instead of "Codex" on the cover?

Because they're the same models? Currently other than the SW character, I believe all of the previewed marine forces are 100% legal with any chapter.

HQ + big thing + troops could cover all of these armies, could be made universal. The only chapter-specific parts are their lazy little upgrade sprues.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why should a book not qualify for a box to go with it, just because it says "Codex Supplement" instead of "Codex" on the cover?

Because they're the same models? Currently other than the SW character, I believe all of the previewed marine forces are 100% legal with any chapter.

HQ + big thing + troops could cover all of these armies, could be made universal. The only chapter-specific parts are their lazy little upgrade sprues.

These aren't aimed at people with big existing armies, they're aimed at people starting a force for the first time. Going into the store saying "I like blood angels, I want to start playing at a small points level, I'll buy that combat patrol box".

Boom, the buy a book, they get models with parts for their book, they have a starting force that is different from someone who did the same with the space wolves book.

It's really not some evil, lazy horrid marketing scheme, it makes sense. People aren't able to see this because they're so used to being an experienced hobbyist trying to milk value out of start up products.

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why should a book not qualify for a box to go with it, just because it says "Codex Supplement" instead of "Codex" on the cover?

Because they're the same models? Currently other than the SW character, I believe all of the previewed marine forces are 100% legal with any chapter.

HQ + big thing + troops could cover all of these armies, could be made universal. The only chapter-specific parts are their lazy little upgrade sprues.

Yeah but since the armies that they're meant to be part of are so different (that's the whole point of the separation), you're severely limiting what can go in the box if you want to even attempt to make a product that's suitable for all of them. This theoretical baseline marine box that's supposed to appeal to all marine players, no matter their subfaction, would be so vanilla and generic that this alone would make it an unsuccessful product that generated more complaints than good will (if that's even possible, considering our community).

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
I supposed all those start collecting boxes for other factions are something I imagined. Right?

I didn't say no other factions had any. I said some other factions had none. Show me the Start Collecting Sisters of Battle box, for instance.


!

So sisters are special snowflake deserving more than others? Seeing　so far they haven't been treated worse than others(new faction gets sc year minimum after　start) if you are complaining about lack of sister sc logically you think sisters deserve　to be extra　special


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 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why should a book not qualify for a box to go with it, just because it says "Codex Supplement" instead of "Codex" on the cover?

Because they're the same models? Currently other than the SW character, I believe all of the previewed marine forces are 100% legal with any chapter.

HQ + big thing + troops could cover all of these armies, could be made universal. The only chapter-specific parts are their lazy little upgrade sprues.

So no upgrade sprues, no blood angel whatever in box and　same price is what you want. Gotcha. Not sure　how that's better but each to his own.

 Super Ready wrote:
Only one example, for an army that only had its refresh a year ago, meaning GW are probably still keen to get people buying the boxes at full price.

Marines just got a refresh too.
Did you miss it?
And before that... they had another refresh!

 Super Ready wrote:
It's not exactly evidence of "Marine favouritism", if anything it would be evidence of Sisters discrimination.

No other faction got 8 boxes either .

 Super Ready wrote:
Do you have any other examples?

Sure: harlequins, custodes. I want to add knight and chaos knight but then that'll be the best kind of correct but a little silly .

tneva82 wrote:
Seeing　so far they haven't been treated worse than others(new faction gets sc year minimum after　start)

This makes no sense. Marines are brand new and getting a Combat Patrol right now!

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why should a book not qualify for a box to go with it, just because it says "Codex Supplement" instead of "Codex" on the cover?

Because they're the same models? Currently other than the SW character, I believe all of the previewed marine forces are 100% legal with any chapter.

HQ + big thing + troops could cover all of these armies, could be made universal. The only chapter-specific parts are their lazy little upgrade sprues.

Most starting customers wouldn’t know that, nor does it make a good add-on sale for retail staff if the stuff on the cover is themed differently.

That’s just not how sales work. The „legality“ of the miniatures with other, differently themed sales pamphlets (e.g. „rules“) is not a major factor.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Super Ready wrote:
Only one example, for an army that only had its refresh a year ago, meaning GW are probably still keen to get people buying the boxes at full price.

Marines just got a refresh too.
Did you miss it?
And before that... they had another refresh!

 Super Ready wrote:
It's not exactly evidence of "Marine favouritism", if anything it would be evidence of Sisters discrimination.

No other faction got 8 boxes either .

 Super Ready wrote:
Do you have any other examples?

Sure: harlequins, custodes. I want to add knight and chaos knight but then that'll be the best kind of correct but a little silly .

tneva82 wrote:
Seeing　so far they haven't been treated worse than others(new faction gets sc year minimum after　start)

This makes no sense. Marines are brand new and getting a Combat Patrol right now!

Yes, all the kits in the combat patrol boxes are over a year old, you've mocked your own stance.

Dudeface wrote:
Yes, all the kits in the combat patrol boxes are over a year old, you've mocked your own stance.

But Sisters are much more than one year old and they don't get get a start collecting box!

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Yes, all the kits in the combat patrol boxes are over a year old, you've mocked your own stance.

But Sisters are much more than one year old and they don't get get a start collecting box!

They were November 2019 iirc.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Yes, all the kits in the combat patrol boxes are over a year old, you've mocked your own stance.

But Sisters are much more than one year old and they don't get get a start collecting box!

They've previewed a new sisters unit, which inevitably comes with a new book. A new book which will likely be accompanied by a combat patrol.

It seems your sole gripe is there isn't an intro box for sisters.


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JWBS wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Yes, all the kits in the combat patrol boxes are over a year old, you've mocked your own stance.

But Sisters are much more than one year old and they don't get get a start collecting box!

They were November 2019 iirc.

The army box was, the multi parts were January iirc?

Why is people asking for their great start collecting boxes to be retired and to receive more expensive boxes with less discount?

Dudeface wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why should a book not qualify for a box to go with it, just because it says "Codex Supplement" instead of "Codex" on the cover?

Because they're the same models? Currently other than the SW character, I believe all of the previewed marine forces are 100% legal with any chapter.

HQ + big thing + troops could cover all of these armies, could be made universal. The only chapter-specific parts are their lazy little upgrade sprues.

These aren't aimed at people with big existing armies, they're aimed at people starting a force for the first time. Going into the store saying "I like blood angels, I want to start playing at a small points level, I'll buy that combat patrol box".

Boom, the buy a book, they get models with parts for their book, they have a starting force that is different from someone who did the same with the space wolves book.

It's really not some evil, lazy horrid marketing scheme, it makes sense. People aren't able to see this because they're so used to being an experienced hobbyist trying to milk value out of start up products.

Nonsense. Anyone and everyone should be trying to get value out of the products they buy.

So far, of the three, none are particularly well matched for the faction they are ostensibly 'for,' and they have less value even as start up products and are less branded as start up products ('Start Collecting' is a far better box title if you want to make the argument that box deals are somehow 'for' starting players)

JWBS wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
But Sisters are much more than one year old and they don't get get a start collecting box!

They were November 2019 iirc.

Sisters existed since 2nd edition. Much more than one year old.

Dudeface wrote:
It seems your sole gripe is there isn't an intro box for sisters.

Yes, this is just the part you chose to focus on.

Voss wrote:

So far, of the three, none are particularly well matched for the faction they are ostensibly 'for,'

What would they change, to make them objectively better for each faction, bearing in mind the constraints? (ie no mini-marines and no newly released stuff).

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

JWBS wrote:

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:
But Sisters are much more than one year old and they don't get get a start collecting box!

They were November 2019 iirc.

Sisters existed since 2nd edition. Much more than one year old.

Heh. I briefly considered that you might be making that utterly facetious non-point but dismissed the notion as absurd. But you actually were Amazing!

JWBS wrote:

Voss wrote:

So far, of the three, none are particularly well matched for the faction they are ostensibly 'for,'

What would they change, to make them objectively better for each faction, bearing in mind the constraints? (ie no mini-marines and no newly released stuff).

I'd make the BA one the DW box
Put a mix of vanguard vets, sanguinary guard and death company in the BA. [no idea why you think that's a 'constraint'- it isn't.
SW- definitely tear out the aliens exo-suit. Toss in the wolf wolfers, maybe some other changes.

The major point of doing snowflake chapters is to create a different feel and playstyle. 'Uh... intercessors!' is a terrible choice for showing off the diversity and working with their 'specialness.' At that point you might as well throw in the towel on doing subfactions at all.

Oh so you think they're going to be releasing CP boxes with mini-marines?

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why should a book not qualify for a box to go with it, just because it says "Codex Supplement" instead of "Codex" on the cover?

Because they're the same models? Currently other than the SW character, I believe all of the previewed marine forces are 100% legal with any chapter.

HQ + big thing + troops could cover all of these armies, could be made universal. The only chapter-specific parts are their lazy little upgrade sprues.

These aren't aimed at people with big existing armies, they're aimed at people starting a force for the first time. Going into the store saying "I like blood angels, I want to start playing at a small points level, I'll buy that combat patrol box".

Boom, the buy a book, they get models with parts for their book, they have a starting force that is different from someone who did the same with the space wolves book.

It's really not some evil, lazy horrid marketing scheme, it makes sense. People aren't able to see this because they're so used to being an experienced hobbyist trying to milk value out of start up products.

Nonsense. Anyone and everyone should be trying to get value out of the products they buy.

So far, of the three, none are particularly well matched for the faction they are ostensibly 'for,' and they have less value even as start up products and are less branded as start up products ('Start Collecting' is a far better box title if you want to make the argument that box deals are somehow 'for' starting players)

Nothing you wrote invalidated my point. They provide a convenient and discounted combat patrol force for an army you're not familiar with.

Whether they're sensible units, fluffy, good for expanding forces, comply with the meta or good to buy multiples of aren't relevant to what the product is intended to do.

They might have worse value than start collecting boxes but it doesn't invalidate their purpose.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JWBS wrote:
Oh so you think they're going to be releasing CP boxes with mini-marines?

I don't think they will, the pattern is certainly set that they won't.

Voss wrote:

JWBS wrote:

Voss wrote:

So far, of the three, none are particularly well matched for the faction they are ostensibly 'for,'

What would they change, to make them objectively better for each faction, bearing in mind the constraints? (ie no mini-marines and no newly released stuff).

I'd make the BA one the DW box
Put a mix of vanguard vets, sanguinary guard and death company in the BA. [no idea why you think that's a 'constraint'- it isn't.
SW- definitely tear out the aliens exo-suit. Toss in the wolf wolfers, maybe some other changes.

The major point of doing snowflake chapters is to create a different feel and playstyle. 'Uh... intercessors!' is a terrible choice for showing off the diversity and working with their 'specialness.' At that point you might as well throw in the towel on doing subfactions at all.

it's pretty clear the CP boxes are gonna be Primaris. given those constraits, the boxes actually include potential faction specific stuff, the SW box has reivers, which can be Hounds of Morkai. and the BA box has intercessors which can be built as death company intercessors.

And the fact that Primaris have been pretty light on what we would consider classic assault units up until a few months ago means that they were always going to struggle with BA and SW particularly. DA and UM/Codex will have a few more options available that we would normally expect as the bread and butter of those chapters.

I didn't say it was horrid or evil.

As shocking as it is, people (even beginners!) have been able to, for decades, recognize that if the box is painted like Ultramarines, they can also use the contents for Blood Angels.

It's not like they're optimized or unique or otherwise special, they've just got some do-dads. I think people's complaints about where is their faction's box when Marines are getting a bunch (which ties up production and shelf space) is warranted.

SoB have only been out for a year. Unless you count the old range, which apparently he is. Why he would want a SC box of 90s SoB in nice shiny finecast though I have no clue.

Seriously, it's like you're willfully misinterpreting people's responses to be the most unreasonable thing, for you to then feel happy about criticizing.

It's not worth trying to discuss with someone arguing in bad faith. Congratulations, you win the not-debate with strawmen you've conjured. You're right and the most reasonable, everyone else is wrong.

What are you even talking about?

The SoB are new and aren't yet ready for a SC, yes or no? (Yes)

Oh, but hang on - they've been an army for 25 years, so they can jump ahead? And we can make a discount box full of new minis? Yes or no? (No)

So what then? He wants the old minis?

You don't seem to know what bad faith argument means.

Congratulations. Seriously. Etcetera.

JWBS wrote:
90s SoB in nice shiny finecast

This doesn't exist, never have, never will. Sisters were never finecast.

we had 1 Sister in Finecast, it was just terrible so everyone forgot about it

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

JWBS wrote:
90s SoB in nice shiny finecast

This doesn't exist, never have, never will. Sisters were never finecast.

Yes, I too had lead and then white metal SoB. So the Start Collecting 1990s Adeptus Sororitas will be pewter instead of finecast? (finecast being the medium used for all models previously cast in pewter). Ok, personally I look forward to that. I never bought a finecast model.

JWBS wrote:
So the Start Collecting 1990s Adeptus Sororitas will be pewter instead of finecast?

Well there is no such thing.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

JWBS wrote:
So the Start Collecting 1990s Adeptus Sororitas will be pewter instead of finecast?

Well there is no such thing.

There was no such thing as a finecast Dante. Until there was. I still prefer your pewter forecast though, I'll be rooting for them to go down that route. They can market it as 'Retro' or something.

JWBS wrote:
There was no such thing as a finecast Dante. Until there was.

That's not what I am talking about. There is no Start Collecting 1990s Adeptus Sororitas. And there won't be, because GW doesn't do Start Collecting anymore, they do Combat Patrols, and GW doesn't do 90s sororitas either. And marines have a lot of those, and are apparently to gain many more, while other factions don't. And people tell me it's a good thing that marines get a lot of those while other factions don't.

"And people tell me it's a good thing that marines get a lot of those while other factions don't." is the part you should react to here, because it's on topic. Everything about Sisters is off-topic.

To be fair, there are very few factions that dont currently have a Start collecting box. Apart from SOB who else?

I mean it does suck if you are an SOB player but at least you ididnt get a BOTP box so a win eh ?

The combat patrol seems like crappier version of the start collecting box.

I expect Eldar will get 3 of the 5 plastic kits we have with one of them being a farseer...

I'd've thought that SoB would be in line for a Start Collecting! box fairly soon, but with the new Combat Patrols, that seems highly unlikely.

Now they'll get a Combat Patrol. When? Maybe around the time the Palatine comes out.

Dudeface wrote:

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 spiralingcadaver wrote:

Sunny Side Up wrote:
Why should a book not qualify for a box to go with it, just because it says "Codex Supplement" instead of "Codex" on the cover?

Because they're the same models? Currently other than the SW character, I believe all of the previewed marine forces are 100% legal with any chapter.

HQ + big thing + troops could cover all of these armies, could be made universal. The only chapter-specific parts are their lazy little upgrade sprues.

These aren't aimed at people with big existing armies, they're aimed at people starting a force for the first time. Going into the store saying "I like blood angels, I want to start playing at a small points level, I'll buy that combat patrol box".

Boom, the buy a book, they get models with parts for their book, they have a starting force that is different from someone who did the same with the space wolves book.

It's really not some evil, lazy horrid marketing scheme, it makes sense. People aren't able to see this because they're so used to being an experienced hobbyist trying to milk value out of start up products.

Nonsense. Anyone and everyone should be trying to get value out of the products they buy.

So far, of the three, none are particularly well matched for the faction they are ostensibly 'for,' and they have less value even as start up products and are less branded as start up products ('Start Collecting' is a far better box title if you want to make the argument that box deals are somehow 'for' starting players)

Nothing you wrote invalidated my point. They provide a convenient and discounted combat patrol force for an army you're not familiar with.

Whether they're sensible units, fluffy, good for expanding forces, comply with the meta or good to buy multiples of aren't relevant to what the product is intended to do.

They might have worse value than start collecting boxes but it doesn't invalidate their purpose.

Then I have a completely different understanding of what a faction specific discount bundle has in terms of 'a purpose.'
I legitimately have no idea how to parse what you're saying.

Because it sounds like you think they could throw in a bunch of chaos marines, charge more than they actually cost and write 'Combat Patrol: Chaos Daemons' on it and you'd say it fulfilled its purpose.

 Argive wrote:
Apart from SOB who else?

I listed above Harlequins, Custodes, and technically Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights.

 Argive wrote:
BOTP box

BOTP?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd've thought that SoB would be in line for a Start Collecting! box fairly soon, but with the new Combat Patrols, that seems highly unlikely.

Now they'll get a Combat Patrol. When? Maybe around the time the Palatine comes out.

Hopefully soon. They are Imperial so they have that going for them, and unlike Militarum they've got fresh models that people will enthusiastically buy in a discount box. AM just got a reworked SC that will presumably be around for a while as GW gradually phase out the current SC line. It is strange that there is no SC for Custodes. Schedules are obviously wonky for the foreseeable future though so who knows really.

 Hybrid Son Of Oxayotl wrote:

 Argive wrote:
Apart from SOB who else?

I listed above Harlequins, Custodes, and technically Imperial Knights and Chaos Knights.

 Argive wrote:
BOTP box

BOTP?

Blood of the phoenix...

Knights are a tricky one.. Coz well two very expensive models make an army. They have a slightly discounted box which includes a terrain piece + 2 big nights and 2 baby knights..
Its basically an army in a box as it has a castellan and valiant and two amigers. So that's a start collecting I guess ?

So 3 factions (quins and custards have about the same number of kits...) which have about 10 kits each don't have a SC box?
That's probably due to product line redundancy and popularity rather than anything else. Im not going to deny the marine favouritism, coz lets be absolutely clear GW has clear marine favouritism when it comes to their product lines as well as games rules. But in this case I dont think it applies and one could even argue means they get the short end of the stick while everyone else(those that have them) still gets to benfit form the superior value SC boxes.

If anything SM are the chief beneficiaries of the IOM favouritism... Like if you want to have a named harlequinn character you have to play SOB/ IOM

JWBS wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'd've thought that SoB would be in line for a Start Collecting! box fairly soon, but with the new Combat Patrols, that seems highly unlikely.

Now they'll get a Combat Patrol. When? Maybe around the time the Palatine comes out.

Hopefully soon. They are Imperial so they have that going for them, and unlike Militarum they've got fresh models that people will enthusiastically buy in a discount box. AM just got a reworked SC that will presumably be around for a while as GW gradually phase out the current SC line. It is strange that there is no SC for Custodes. Schedules are obviously wonky for the foreseeable future though so who knows really.

I expect the Ad mech to get a combat patrol when they get thier codex, which should be early next year along with drukhari and Orks

The custodes didn't really need a SC, 1 squad box got you 1 HQ, 1 Elite Character, and a squad of 3 Troops. So I don't expect a lot from any Combat Patrol bix

Would we expect an ad mech combat patrol already? They just recently had a new start collecting set

They said when books get updated

Got massively off topic here from the new BA Combat Patrol box, if someone wishes to start a new topic about the Combat Patrol boxes in general then please do so.