Terribly analogy, I know.

Looks like GW is dropping the price (under $3 US) and actually adding some sorely needed features. The update isn't out yet though. Is $3 still too much for you or do you think it might have some value at that point?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/02/06/warhammer-40000-the-apps-new-update-offers-more-features-than-ever-for-less/

Still less functional than Battlescribe, then?

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Still less functional than Battlescribe, then?

They might finally catch up, but I think the usability will still be behind in many respects. (but I like list building on a PC instead of a phone)

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Terribly analogy, I know.

Looks like GW is dropping the price (under $3 US) and actually adding some sorely needed features. The update isn't out yet though. Is $3 still too much for you or do you think it might have some value at that point?

So far, they haven't managed to convince me it has any value at a $0 price point.

I'm not sure what 'features' are added here, to be honest. I'm baffled by the idea that custom traits and upgrades weren't something baseline, as they've been part of army building since before this terrible app launched. Or what their idea of 'list building tools' are? You can either write a list or... not. What would be a 'full suite of tools' and what couldn't it do before?

A spreadsheet or piece of paper and a pencil seems objectively superior if that is what they're adding 5-6 months later.

That Russian site and a word document are a better value than this app.

Yea, one thing that confounded me is that I could never put Szeras in any detachment without throwing an error.

They missed a lot of stuff early on and it was definitely rushed. I haven't used Battlescribe on mobile so I don't have a good basis for comparison there on navigation so I'd love someone's perspective there if they have it.






Automatically Appended Next Post:
Nothing beats a glorious spreadsheet like this though (not mine):

Without some updates to the app itself, it’s still worthless. On iPad it’s still running in compatibility rather than native and the aspect ratio is still broken.

Pay now, get something ok in the future maybe lol. The GW way.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Still less functional than Battlescribe, then?

They might finally catch up, but I think the usability will still be behind in many respects. (but I like list building on a PC instead of a phone)

So...download Battlescribe on your PC, then?

 AnomanderRake wrote:

So...download Battlescribe on your PC, then?

I do - that was my point. I don't know how GW's thing stacks up against BS mobile though.

I use and pay for the app. I get value from it. But, YMMV. Lowering the cost is just extra peachy.

I'm still mystified that they spent all this time developing a subscription app with less functionality than the Age of Sigmar app they released for free 3 years ago. Talk about an inexplicably huge step backwards. I think GW is going to have trouble getting community buy-in into the app until they offer free access to unit datasheets like the AoS app does, and likewise allow people to buy digital-only copies of the rulebooks through the app instead of having to input a dumb code from a physical copy of the rulebook that is rendered functionally useless by FAQ and Errata within 2 weeks of its release.

During a pandemic when the club is shut and I cant have people visit / go see them - I wouldn’t even pay a penny for an app, never mind a broken, unfinished produce they will inevitable hike up the price up.

Still not cheaper than my pencil.
Still not more useful than 2-3 large coffees/month through Mc'Donalds....

chaos0xomega wrote:
I'm still mystified that they spent all this time developing a subscription app with less functionality than the Age of Sigmar app they released for free 3 years ago. Talk about an inexplicably huge step backwards. I think GW is going to have trouble getting community buy-in into the app until they offer free access to unit datasheets like the AoS app does, and likewise allow people to buy digital-only copies of the rulebooks through the app instead of having to input a dumb code from a physical copy of the rulebook that is rendered functionally useless by FAQ and Errata within 2 weeks of its release.

It isn't even just the AoS app. AoS units have their datasheets on the website on their store pages!
Being able to check on a whim if a unit actually is something I want is a huge selling point.

Especially right now, when it obviously isn't worth buying any 8th edition codex, because at the moment, any of them could be invalidated in the coming months.

chaos0xomega wrote:
...from a physical copy of the rulebook that is rendered functionally useless by FAQ and Errata within 2 weeks of its release.

Ah, the sweet, sweet smell of internet hyperbole - how I do miss thee when I am not browsing Dakka.

Once the Crusade tracking features actually go live, I'll give it a shot just to see how it compares to the tracking spreadsheets I've created.

I'm not saying creating an app or program for a game with the amount of datasheets and interactions 40K has is an easy task, and Battlescribe surely has its flaws,too, but man, GW really messed this up. And now they're desperately trying to make things work but still miss the mark. Too expensive, inferior to alternatives, no PC Version and still an unfinished product you're supposed to pay for. It's pretty clear GW really likes their books and doesn't actually want that online stuff.

Edit: Their PR speach that tries to sell you basic functions as great improvements appears especially ridiculous in this case.

I think the new price is much more reasonable, and like the new features that they have announced, especially the crusade support, but I won't be paying for the app unless it becomes available for PC.

I want to do my list building on my laptop, and then have the list and rules references in my pocket on my phone for easy reference when playing. I have no interest in list building on my phone.

The "improvements" largely appear to be things that one would have expected to be in there from the start.

As is, I just have zero interest in paying a monthly subscription for anything like that, particularly when more capable free alternatives that work on a wider array of platforms exist and GW still wants me to buy a $40 book or $35 epub file on top. I just don't see any value in that.

If it were more capable than free alternatives, worked on a PC, and eliminated the need to buy a codex and rulebook? We'll talk about paying a monthly sub then.

 Vaktathi wrote:
The "improvements" largely appear to be things that one would have expected to be in there from the start.

As is, I just have zero interest in paying a monthly subscription for anything like that, particularly when more capable free alternatives that work on a wider array of platforms exist and GW still wants me to buy a $40 book or $35 epub file on top. I just don't see any value in that.

If it were more capable than free alternatives, worked on a PC, and eliminated the need to buy a codex and rulebook? We'll talk about paying a monthly sub then.

I was thinking they where not doing ebook releases anymore? Do they still do them.

But it also means that the payed app gets worse as you go, needing the book anyway means they have to then make something that is better than alternatives.
Which is really hard as I also use there alternatives for other games, including GW games so to stop using them I would need like 5 new apps for just GW itself.

Apple fox wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
The "improvements" largely appear to be things that one would have expected to be in there from the start.

As is, I just have zero interest in paying a monthly subscription for anything like that, particularly when more capable free alternatives that work on a wider array of platforms exist and GW still wants me to buy a $40 book or $35 epub file on top. I just don't see any value in that.

If it were more capable than free alternatives, worked on a PC, and eliminated the need to buy a codex and rulebook? We'll talk about paying a monthly sub then.

I was thinking they where not doing ebook releases anymore? Do they still do them.

But it also means that the payed app gets worse as you go, needing the book anyway means they have to then make something that is better than alternatives.
Which is really hard as I also use there alternatives for other games, including GW games so to stop using them I would need like 5 new apps for just GW itself.

I believe the old-but-still-current eBooks are still for sale, it's just that new book releases are physical only with a code inside for the dgitial version in app

Apple fox wrote:

 Vaktathi wrote:
The "improvements" largely appear to be things that one would have expected to be in there from the start.

As is, I just have zero interest in paying a monthly subscription for anything like that, particularly when more capable free alternatives that work on a wider array of platforms exist and GW still wants me to buy a $40 book or $35 epub file on top. I just don't see any value in that.

If it were more capable than free alternatives, worked on a PC, and eliminated the need to buy a codex and rulebook? We'll talk about paying a monthly sub then.

I was thinking they where not doing ebook releases anymore? Do they still do them.

They don't, none of the 9th edition books have ebook equivalents.

Due to the whole Brexit mess my DG codex which I pre-ordered is still lost in customs and therefore I can't even use the app to build DG armies. I'd gladly buy a digital copy if there was one.

For 24€/year I expect a lot less than I would for 60€/year, among that:
- Immediate updates to rules and points as soon as they are released
- A functional army builder with good handling and quick access to well readable rules during games (BS is lacking in that department IMO)
- Crusade rooster management and list building in one tool
- Synchronization between devices
- An option to unlock armies/books without buying a physical book. Bonus points for allowing such unlocks as soon as books go up for pre-order.
- PC support (a web interface would be sufficient)

There are tons of nice-to-haves but if more than one thing from that list is missing, I don't think there is value in switching from the great tools available right now.

If they actually fix gak maybe. I did the free trial they had and plague marines are fethed on the app, can't configure it properly with legal loadouts.

Let's see if they legit improve it.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Still less functional than Battlescribe, then?

They might finally catch up, but I think the usability will still be behind in many respects. (but I like list building on a PC instead of a phone)

So...download Battlescribe on your PC, then?

Exactly.
I'll stay away from this GW product/app. New coke seems to be diet.

Current subscribers, no need to thank me, you are very welcome!

I did my bit to get you a lower cost and better services by not buying that garbage.

If they get the crusade stuff up there, might be worth it at the new price. That’s value added.

And yes, I can just track it in a spread, but it’s nice to have it all in one place.

 Jidmah wrote:


They don't, none of the 9th edition books have ebook equivalents.

Due to the whole Brexit mess my DG codex which I pre-ordered is still lost in customs and therefore I can't even use the app to build DG armies. I'd gladly buy a digital copy if there was one.

You can use the army builder for armies you don't have a code for. You just can't see any rules beyond the basic datatsheets for thr units without the code.

Woah, GW lowering the price on something? This must have been doing *really* badly for that to have happened.

Tbh, this feels much more reasonable and I'd feel much less aggrieved about shelling out a couple of quid a month, assuming it starts working a bit better.

I'm not too sure what 2 euros translates to for Canadian dollars but if it's still more than BS I'll pass. Maybe when my friends DE book is out and we can play crusade I'll consider it. But if BS gets a crusade variant I'll just use that

That being said I do think that BS is sometimes difficult to read and I think that'd be the only thing the GW app has going for it

For GW to lower price, the app really had to be doing not alright at all. I wonder who those people that paid full since day one feel now.

 Dysartes wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
...from a physical copy of the rulebook that is rendered functionally useless by FAQ and Errata within 2 weeks of its release.

Ah, the sweet, sweet smell of internet hyperbole - how I do miss thee when I am not browsing Dakka.

Not really hyperbole. There were a couple instances in 8th edition where the changes made in the 2 week FAQ were fairly dramatic and the codex release was followed closely by a Chapter Approved/points update that updated the points values in a brand new codex. More recently, the points and power ratings in the Death Guard Codex which released in mid-January have already been modified by the Munitorum Field Manual and Power Rating Updates released on February 4th (and theres no doubt an FAQ scheduled to release any day now as well). On that note, the card packs that GW puts out with the codexes are the biggest scam ever. In a couple cases the FAQ made almost a quarter of the cards in the pack basically useless as printed right after release as a result of edits to wording and strategem point costs, etc. By the end of 8th edition the majority of the cards in some of the packs I purchased were no longer accurate as a result of subsequent faqs and balance adjustments.

Personally, I can't really justify spending money on something I know isn't going to be fully usable as-written within days of me purchasing it.

 jaredb wrote:
You can use the army builder for armies you don't have a code for. You just can't see any rules beyond the basic datatsheets for thr units without the code.

What's the point of that?

 Jidmah wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
You can use the army builder for armies you don't have a code for. You just can't see any rules beyond the basic datatsheets for thr units without the code.

What's the point of that?

Incentivizing the purchase of more codices?

When you can have the for "free" ? That is not a very good entice, even with a lowered price.

 waefre_1 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
You can use the army builder for armies you don't have a code for. You just can't see any rules beyond the basic datatsheets for thr units without the code.

What's the point of that?

Incentivizing the purchase of more codices?

Two things :

1) Piracy of codexes through 8th was pretty simple. This makes it harder (not impossible).
2) An automatic path to get people using the app.

 Jidmah wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
You can use the army builder for armies you don't have a code for. You just can't see any rules beyond the basic datatsheets for thr units without the code.

What's the point of that?

You can use the army builder without the codex. Still have all the weapon and unit stats.

I feel like the "GW is a miniatures company" line wears a little thin when they seems to be so keen on selling books. Like, oodles of them.
The fact that they have an app, and that they seem much happier to dynamically update rules, should signal a move away from physical codexs as anything but collectors items... but if anything, as many have pointed out, we seem more tethered than ever.
I agree with choas above me that it seems to push people ever more towards piracy, which sucks.
If the Napster wars showed anything, is that, amongst people who are actually able to pay for a service, they are happy to do so if it is more convenient than the alternatives. Video streaming almost got there before fragmenting into a million competing services again. And GW were on the right path seemingly, but then screwed it up...
As soon as the app provides live, updated rules, for the whole game (including codexs), for a reasonable monthly fee, I will be there for that, as i am sure many other will. Seriously GW, I can either buy one codex for my main faction and get the rest of the rules wherever... OR I can send you a few quid a month, probably for the length of time I am into the game. And.. FYI, I have being paying spotify a monthly fee pretty much since they started... sooooo your call.

First they need to fix it. Second they need to make it free. After that go digital with the rules and make them free also. Especially with how they keep jacking up the minis prices.

Pointer5 wrote:
First they need to fix it. Second they need to make it free. After that go digital with the rules and make them free also. Especially with how they keep jacking up the minis prices.

Free - HA! Believe me, with GW you'll pay for that. Well, someone will - when they buy their next box of minis.

 jaredb wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 jaredb wrote:
You can use the army builder for armies you don't have a code for. You just can't see any rules beyond the basic datatsheets for thr units without the code.

What's the point of that?

You can use the army builder without the codex. Still have all the weapon and unit stats.

Yes, but then I have an army list without any rules. I really don't need to pay 2€/month to just add up points.

Karol wrote:
For GW to lower price, the app really had to be doing not alright at all. I wonder who those people that paid full since day one feel now.

Probably pretty happy, given that something which is worth $5/month to them now has more to it and costs less.

I’d subscribe if the subscription came with the digital rules. Until then I see no point.

the App market is different and the direct competition still better and it seems that GW is unable to improve their product in time so lowering the price because they see that "official 40k GW App" is not enough for people to pay a premium price

compared to others, still not worth the price for what you get

Oh, the app is already discounted! How very unfortunate for GW..

Maybe my wish comes true after all, and GW reintroduces digital editions of their current 40K books. This is a promising sign.

And even @2.5€/mo I'd rather use my DIY digital rulebooks, thanks

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 AnomanderRake wrote:
Still less functional than Battlescribe, then?

They might finally catch up, but I think the usability will still be behind in many respects. (but I like list building on a PC instead of a phone)

I got the 40k app working in Bluestacks on my PC.
It is the same as the phone app, being an emulator, but can copy-paste, and use a keyboard and mouse.

I'm still hoping they release a digital codex option. I piled into getting them way back with the Eldar codex in 2013 (?), and there's no reason they canot still offer them.
It'd get around the 'stuck in customs' problems the UK is having. They should email the app code on purchase, if bought online, and send a codeless paper codex out.

ccs wrote:

Pointer5 wrote:
First they need to fix it. Second they need to make it free. After that go digital with the rules and make them free also. Especially with how they keep jacking up the minis prices.

Free - HA! Believe me, with GW you'll pay for that. Well, someone will - when they buy their next box of minis.

GW app becomes free. Wake up in 10th ed with basic box of infantry costing 85$.

Karol wrote:

ccs wrote:

Pointer5 wrote:
First they need to fix it. Second they need to make it free. After that go digital with the rules and make them free also. Especially with how they keep jacking up the minis prices.

Free - HA! Believe me, with GW you'll pay for that. Well, someone will - when they buy their next box of minis.

GW app becomes free. Wake up in 10th ed with basic box of infantry costing 85$.

I could play well with the funds I have.

taking bets what happens first?

10th Editon or a proper 40k App

That's the very definition of s suckers's bet. It will definitely be fifteenth edition.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
...from a physical copy of the rulebook that is rendered functionally useless by FAQ and Errata within 2 weeks of its release.

Ah, the sweet, sweet smell of internet hyperbole - how I do miss thee when I am not browsing Dakka.

Not really hyperbole. There were a couple instances in 8th edition where the changes made in the 2 week FAQ were fairly dramatic and the codex release was followed closely by a Chapter Approved/points update that updated the points values in a brand new codex. More recently, the points and power ratings in the Death Guard Codex which released in mid-January have already been modified by the Munitorum Field Manual and Power Rating Updates released on February 4th (and theres no doubt an FAQ scheduled to release any day now as well). On that note, the card packs that GW puts out with the codexes are the biggest scam ever. In a couple cases the FAQ made almost a quarter of the cards in the pack basically useless as printed right after release as a result of edits to wording and strategem point costs, etc. By the end of 8th edition the majority of the cards in some of the packs I purchased were no longer accurate as a result of subsequent faqs and balance adjustments.

Personally, I can't really justify spending money on something I know isn't going to be fully usable as-written within days of me purchasing it.

There is a substantial difference between "functionally useless" and not "...going to be fully usable as-written within days..." - hence, internet hyperbole.

Even after the update to the MFM and Points Level updates - v1.1? - the vast majority of the recently-released Death Guard book is usable. Even if we see a FAQ document released in the next week or two, we're unlikely to see many changes. Of the 9th ed Codex (or Supplement) FAQs I've looked at, none have acres of changes. I am a little surprised to see points cost and power level changes crop up in the FAQ docs as well as in the reference docs, but I've also given up understanding how GW try to organise their information, so...

 Dysartes wrote:
There is a substantial difference between "functionally useless" and not "...going to be fully usable as-written within days..." - hence, internet hyperbole.

Even after the update to the MFM and Points Level updates - v1.1? - the vast majority of the recently-released Death Guard book is usable. Even if we see a FAQ document released in the next week or two, we're unlikely to see many changes. Of the 9th ed Codex (or Supplement) FAQs I've looked at, none have acres of changes. I am a little surprised to see points cost and power level changes crop up in the FAQ docs as well as in the reference docs, but I've also given up understanding how GW try to organise their information, so...

This. I have used my DG codex and WotS all the way until the new codex dropped, and am still using the ork codex and SotB, with the former having two pages from the new IA book added. Any yes, those pages are not pirated, but cut from a legit book

If there is an errata for something I just mark the rule with a sticky note - most FAQs are just changing RAW to RAI anyways, so you only need the FAQ when you need the exact wording, many others just change one number to another.

And who uses the points/PL in codices to build lists anyways?

Until it becomes free, like the competition, I don't see any reason to even consider it. The fact they're touting as "upgrades" the kind of functionality that should have been there to start with is laughable.

 kodos wrote:
taking bets what happens first?

10th Editon or a proper 40k App

I know it's a meme to joke about how bad it is, but it's really a lot better than folks make it out to be. The price isn't something I'm going to argue about, but the functionality is pretty close, especially compared to launch.

Is it taking longer than it should? Yes. I also think they should have delayed the app until the army builder was out, or didn't charge during beta. But, here we are.

 jaredb wrote:

 kodos wrote:
taking bets what happens first?

10th Editon or a proper 40k App

I know it's a meme to joke about how bad it is, but it's really a lot better than folks make it out to be. The price isn't something I'm going to argue about, but the functionality is pretty close, especially compared to launch.

Is it taking longer than it should? Yes. I also think they should have delayed the app until the army builder was out, or didn't charge during beta. But, here we are.

being better than it was at launch just means we went from a paid Alpha Test to a paid Beta Test

and the main product to compare it with is the Age of Sigmar App and Army Builder
as long as the 40k version can do less but costs more, it does not matter how much it improved over the previous version it is still worse than the other support App from GW

so there is not even the excuse that GW cannot do it better, like people always have with the rules, but this time we know that they can do better, they just want to see with how much they can get away with

I completely agree about cost at launch.

And, I don't think people remember, but the AOS army builder was a complete mess when it cam out too.

I think the whole thing should have been delayed until the army builder was out, and launched with the Space Marine + Necron codex. Then for free for the next couple of months as they worked out most of the kinks/ rolled out features. But, we are at the point we are now.

It's a great looking, and easy to use tool, and a fantastic resource. Including all the 8th ed stuff was a nice touch, but man it's going to be really hard to get adoption now after such a shaky start, no matter how good it gets.

I'm surprised anyone ever considered paying for that app honestly, £5 a month is too steep but then so is £3.

If it was £5 a year then sure, but monthly subscription nah.

 tauist wrote:
Maybe my wish comes true after all, and GW reintroduces digital editions of their current 40K books.

I just want digital codexes back - in 8th I bought codexes for armies I don’t have just for the fluff, but, since I move a lot, I’m not down with being forced to have paper books and/or an app that doesn’t even work properly on iPad.

I agree, also because in my mind a book is forever mine... A subscription app is basically a rent.

As long as the app costs approximately as the paper book (take 2/3 year of life of an edition, multiply by the monthly fee: unless it's below 50%-75%) I won't even consider it.

GW already destroyed the Old World, put some of my models in Legends (Bike Characters, only to release Primaris... On bike) so I won't consider renting anything from them unless it's very cheap. And don't even let me start on Covid (I would have let the app free during this period and raise the price when the tournament scene will get traction again)

Mine still crashes on my android tablet whenever I try to type something into the search function or just manually navigate through the menu. It is literally unusable for me.

I've also been spoiled from having used War Room for Warmahordes which is the level of quality I'd expect from a paid app. I think the idea of a 40K app is a great one but it needs to be of a similar level of quality and functionality to war room and include fully functional digital codexes that auto-update. Once that happens I'll consider subscribing to it. When it actually works for more than a couple of seconds without crashing I'll consider using the free version. Right now I feel worse off because of the apps existence because I used to buy all my codexes digitally, which is an option I no longer have.

EDIT: out of curiosity I just installed the app on my phone. It seems more stable in that I can get all the way to selecting the unit datasheet via search or menu navigation before it crashes.

I'm glad I haven't spent 1 monetary unit on this!

Pointer5 wrote:
First they need to fix it. Second they need to make it free. After that go digital with the rules and make them free also. Especially with how they keep jacking up the minis prices.

Completely agree. It's pretty absurd we still have to pay for rules. Get with the times, GW!

The update looks to be out...:
Updated
9 February 2021
Current Version
2.1

 kodos wrote:
taking bets what happens first?

10th Editon or a proper 40k App

Oh definitely 10th ed.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
And who uses the points/PL in codices to build lists anyways

Raises hand.

Most of our games have been Crusade & our Crusades have all used PL.

ccs wrote:
Most of our games have been Crusade & our Crusades have all used PL.

And you are flipping back and forth through you codex instead of using the PL values all printed in one page in the update PDF?

Not to mention that you'll probably be building lists straight from your rooster anyways once the crusade has started and messed with the PL costs.

Plague Marines basic loadout still doesn't work. So kek feth them and their gak app until they get their gak together. One constant is you'll always have people that are ok with paying a premium price for half-assed mediocre work from a company large and profitable enough to do better.

Wayniac wrote:
Plague Marines basic loadout still doesn't work. So kek feth them and their gak app until they get their gak together. One constant is you'll always have people that are ok with paying a premium price for half-assed mediocre work from a company large and profitable enough to do better.

GW white Knights will literally pay money for "it might get better" or "it'll help encourage XYZ" which is honestly hilarious.

"It'll encourage them to do better" is what gets me. As if GW will personally thank them and repay their donation in full.

 kirotheavenger wrote:
"It'll encourage them to do better" is what gets me. As if GW will personally thank them and repay their donation in full.

Umm who said that?

It wasn't in this thread, but there have been other threads where that line of arguement was taken. That paying GW and showing interest in their App would lead to them improving it, investing more money in to development. I don't wholly disagree with the sentiment, but do find it unlikely.

I see the attitude mostly on their Facebook page.
I lot of people there are very devout GW fans.

Didn't read the whole thread, but it's pretty remarkable to see GW drop prices on anything, even something that doesn't work on a basic level like the app. Price cuts is not something GW does.

It must have been flopping even harder than everybody thought to cause them to break their 1st commandment.

You know for a company that supposedly makes way more than Corvus Belli, GW's army builder is still.pretty gakky, a gakky army builder you have to pay for. Made worse by the fact that Infinity Army builder has all kind of features, links to all the special rules for a model, and is free.

It can't be that hard.

 BlackoCatto wrote:
You know for a company that supposedly makes way more than Corvus Belli, GW's army builder is still.pretty gakky, a gakky army builder you have to pay for. Made worse by the fact that Infinity Army builder has all kind of features, links to all the special rules for a model, and is free.

It can't be that hard.

I'm not defending GW here, but I gave that app a peek, because I was curious and it's confusing as feth. It doesn't seem to have much that GW doesn't have - it just probably does it more consistently ( and is free ).

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 BlackoCatto wrote:
You know for a company that supposedly makes way more than Corvus Belli, GW's army builder is still.pretty gakky, a gakky army builder you have to pay for. Made worse by the fact that Infinity Army builder has all kind of features, links to all the special rules for a model, and is free.

It can't be that hard.

I'm not defending GW here, but I gave that app a peek, because I was curious and it's confusing as feth. It doesn't seem to have much that GW doesn't have - it just probably does it more consistently ( and is free ).

Yeah, seriously. All it does is work, and cost nothing. How underwhelming.

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 BlackoCatto wrote:
You know for a company that supposedly makes way more than Corvus Belli, GW's army builder is still.pretty gakky, a gakky army builder you have to pay for. Made worse by the fact that Infinity Army builder has all kind of features, links to all the special rules for a model, and is free.

It can't be that hard.

I'm not defending GW here, but I gave that app a peek, because I was curious and it's confusing as feth. It doesn't seem to have much that GW doesn't have - it just probably does it more consistently ( and is free ).

Yeah, seriously. All it does is work, and cost nothing. How underwhelming.

I know, it just isn't the same when I'm not overpaying and defending the company :(

yukishiro1 wrote:
Yeah, seriously. All it does is work, and cost nothing. How underwhelming.

Right, but if we're going to be objective and honest - GW has a more approachable UI. War Room has the best UI. There is a small cost to War Room so charging for something isn't necessarily bad - if they make it work.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 BlackoCatto wrote:
You know for a company that supposedly makes way more than Corvus Belli, GW's army builder is still.pretty gakky, a gakky army builder you have to pay for. Made worse by the fact that Infinity Army builder has all kind of features, links to all the special rules for a model, and is free.

It can't be that hard.

I'm not defending GW here, but I gave that app a peek, because I was curious and it's confusing as feth. It doesn't seem to have much that GW doesn't have - it just probably does it more consistently ( and is free ).

Yeah, seriously. All it does is work, and cost nothing. How underwhelming.

I know, it just isn't the same when I'm not overpaying and defending the company :(

I get all the rules for free and It references nicely linked. As someone whom plays Infinity it makes sense nicely and does its job well enough... for free. It's all I ask and their is a stable PC version as well.

I don't care if it looks nice, as long as it fething works.

 BlackoCatto wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 BlackoCatto wrote:
You know for a company that supposedly makes way more than Corvus Belli, GW's army builder is still.pretty gakky, a gakky army builder you have to pay for. Made worse by the fact that Infinity Army builder has all kind of features, links to all the special rules for a model, and is free.

It can't be that hard.

I'm not defending GW here, but I gave that app a peek, because I was curious and it's confusing as feth. It doesn't seem to have much that GW doesn't have - it just probably does it more consistently ( and is free ).

Yeah, seriously. All it does is work, and cost nothing. How underwhelming.

I know, it just isn't the same when I'm not overpaying and defending the company :(

I get all the rules for free and It references nicely linked. As someone whom plays Infinity it makes sense nicely and does its job well enough... for free. It's all I ask and their is a stable PC version as well.

I don't care if it looks nice, as long as it fething works.

I'm guessing that Daedalus thinks that, since it isn't pretty, the UI isn't good. Battlescribe ain't pretty but it's pretty damn easy to work.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm guessing that Daedalus thinks that, since it isn't pretty, the UI isn't good. Battlescribe ain't pretty but it's pretty damn easy to work.

Well, I design and program apps for a living ( among other things ), so....more of a professional opinion.

 Jidmah wrote:

ccs wrote:
Most of our games have been Crusade & our Crusades have all used PL.

And you are flipping back and forth through you codex instead of using the PL values all printed in one page in the update PDF?

No. I've simply printed the page and tucked it into the back of the book. So, just as with pts, I look to a page in the back of my book. Pts or PL, same amount of page flipping.... And when it gets changed again? I'll print a new page, retiring the old one to a folder.
Were I a bit less lazy/slightly more motivated I'd go through my book with those easy to remove colored circle stickers & "update" the PL in the corner of each stat block. But there's always something better to do....

What I'm NOT doing is wasting a few dollars/month on an app.

 Jidmah wrote:
Not to mention that you'll probably be building lists straight from your rooster anyways once the crusade has started and messed with the PL costs.

Not seeing your point. Or needing to spend $ on their app since once Crusade underway my PLs change from what's printed.

My pencil - still cheaper & more useful than GWs app.

 Skinnereal wrote:
The update looks to be out...:
Updated
9 February 2021
Current Version
2.1

Doesn't seem to be it - no Crusade stuff.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm guessing that Daedalus thinks that, since it isn't pretty, the UI isn't good. Battlescribe ain't pretty but it's pretty damn easy to work.

Well, I design and program apps for a living ( among other things ), so....more of a professional opinion.

To let ya know, being pretty is a bonus. I'd much rather something work well enough than look nice. Gold plated turd is still pretty much a turd.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm guessing that Daedalus thinks that, since it isn't pretty, the UI isn't good. Battlescribe ain't pretty but it's pretty damn easy to work.

Well, I design and program apps for a living ( among other things ), so....more of a professional opinion.

Good for you. Now lemme tell you a little secret.

It doesn't matter how pretty your app is if it is barely functional, especially if you have to pay for it. The app sucks and the fact that the free one for the other game can function just fine says not only a lot about the people paid money to design the GW one, but the lengths people will go to defend GW. The fact you design apps honestly has zero worth to me because it isn't a defense for the app.

When you think about it, GW has pretty much built its dominance on nice UI (models) with barely passable innards (rules) for an extremely premium price, so maybe it's no surprise that they're taking the same approach to app design.

yukishiro1 wrote:
When you think about it, GW has pretty much built its dominance on nice UI (models) with barely passable innards (rules) for an extremely premium price, so maybe it's no surprise that they're taking the same approach to app design.

Lol. But it actually matters for an App.

ccs wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
When you think about it, GW has pretty much built its dominance on nice UI (models) with barely passable innards (rules) for an extremely premium price, so maybe it's no surprise that they're taking the same approach to app design.

Lol. But it actually matters for an App.

it actually matters for the game as well, but GW marketing has told people over years that they should not care because it is not possible to do better

with the App it will be similar, GW will tell people that it is not perfect and might have some mistake, but it is the best people can make without taking too much time and they need to rise the prise again because a company need to live

and those people will believe them and defend it as the truth (because otherwise they would have spend too much money on an inferior product, and it is easier to pretend that the product is good than to admit a mistake)

I say this as a long time GW fan with multiple shelves of rules books groaning from the weight.

(And I also say this about the rules, and not about the flavor text, ideas, art or production values which have always been top notch.)

Yeah. Free is about the right price for GW rules.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, I design and program apps for a living ( among other things ), so....more of a professional opinion.

And nuthin' quite says "professional" like GW's new app.

 kodos wrote:
and those people will believe them and defend it as the truth (because otherwise they would have spend too much money on an inferior product, and it is easier to pretend that the product is good than to admit a mistake)

I don't think everyone defending GW's app is doing so out of some form of sunk cost shame. Some of them really believe it's the greatest thing ever.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Skinnereal wrote:
The update looks to be out...:
Updated; 9 February 2021
Current Version; 2.1

Doesn't seem to be it - no Crusade stuff.

The day before, it was version 2.0.5, and cost £3.99.
I signed up for the £1.99 listed, and found duplicated unit entries with no explanation listed, and no way to edit list names, amongst other quibles.

A lot of people are defending it because they believe that GW is the greatest thing ever, and therefore anything they do is the greatest thing ever.
But I do believe a lot of that is, ultimately, derived from sunk-cost fallacies.
I've met people that seem to almost get angry at you suggesting other games do something better in some way, and often use arguments I don't think they actually believe.
For example, that player that never paints his army and it's always very shoddily built arguing that GW has the best models and that makes it worth it.
Or "the kit isn't overpriced, it's actually great value because GW sells this other kit that's more expensive".

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

I don't think everyone defending GW's app is doing so out of some form of sunk cost shame. Some of them really believe it's the greatest thing ever.

for rules, I can get behind that people have never seen or played something else, so cannot compare it

while it is hard to believe that there are people out who never used an App before as even GW itself has a better App (for AoS) and never had contact with other games

 BlackoCatto wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm guessing that Daedalus thinks that, since it isn't pretty, the UI isn't good. Battlescribe ain't pretty but it's pretty damn easy to work.

Well, I design and program apps for a living ( among other things ), so....more of a professional opinion.

To let ya know, being pretty is a bonus. I'd much rather something work well enough than look nice. Gold plated turd is still pretty much a turd.

I'll hold my hand up as not having looked at the GW app or the Infinity app - but a good UI isn't just "making something look pretty," it's an important part of the functional design of a piece of software.

Sure, the back-end needs to work as well, but a UI that confuses your user or hides away important tools (as well as other design sins) can turn your functional app into a nugget of turd-plated gold, while a good UI on a shoddy back-end can give that gold-plated turd feel.

As I said, I've not used either app, so I'm not going to comment on the specifics of their form or function, but claiming that UI design is a bonus is delusional, frankly.

Most people defending the app I've encountered argue something along the lines of "GW has no experience in apps, you can't expect it to be flawless at launch, it's entirely reasonable".
Even when told about the AoS version, they choose to deny or ignore the point rather than change their mind.

Maybe it's just typical internet arguments where it's physically impossible for you to be wrong, but I think it's very indicative of blind-following.

ccs wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

ccs wrote:
Most of our games have been Crusade & our Crusades have all used PL.

And you are flipping back and forth through you codex instead of using the PL values all printed in one page in the update PDF?

No. I've simply printed the page and tucked it into the back of the book. So, just as with pts, I look to a page in the back of my book. Pts or PL, same amount of page flipping.... And when it gets changed again? I'll print a new page, retiring the old one to a folder.
Were I a bit less lazy/slightly more motivated I'd go through my book with those easy to remove colored circle stickers & "update" the PL in the corner of each stat block. But there's always something better to do....

What I'm NOT doing is wasting a few dollars/month on an app.

 Jidmah wrote:
Not to mention that you'll probably be building lists straight from your rooster anyways once the crusade has started and messed with the PL costs.

Not seeing your point. Or needing to spend $ on their app since once Crusade underway my PLs change from what's printed.

My pencil - still cheaper & more useful than GWs app.

I think you just missed my point, I agree with you on all points.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Most people defending the app I've encountered argue something along the lines of "GW has no experience in apps, you can't expect it to be flawless at launch, it's entirely reasonable".

From my job experience of actually being part of such projects, GW just did the same feth-ups every bigger company makes that suddenly decides that they want have an app for something. It's all there, pretty UI, tons of bugs, missing functionality and doesn't work for anything but system demos to BS the guys with the budget into thinking that they are getting the bestest app ever for their undersized budget.

It's just regular levels of management incompetence you always see in these projects
And you didn't actually expect that the guys developing the two apps communicate any more than two teams writing books, did you?
This app is just Conway's law in action.

I'm not defending this app, but I would have been very surprised if it had been any better than it is. The only difference to most of my work projects is that companies usually don't dare to charge for their little dumpster fires until they are actually sufficiently complete and stable.

 Jidmah wrote:
The only difference to most of my work projects is that companies usually don't dare to charge for their little dumpster fires until they are actually sufficiently complete and stable.

this is GW's main marketing model, charge enough for a bad product to kick "some form of sunk cost shame" off and people will buy and defend it no matter how bad really is

if another company would have made this app for free, they would have received a shitstorm and people stop playing their game and support them over night for even thinking about put something like this on the app store

for GW, charge a ridiculous price and people have sympathy for GW because they cannot do better and need the money to improve

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I'm guessing that Daedalus thinks that, since it isn't pretty, the UI isn't good. Battlescribe ain't pretty but it's pretty damn easy to work.

Well, I design and program apps for a living ( among other things ), so....more of a professional opinion.

Good for you. Now lemme tell you a little secret.

It doesn't matter how pretty your app is if it is barely functional, especially if you have to pay for it. The app sucks and the fact that the free one for the other game can function just fine says not only a lot about the people paid money to design the GW one, but the lengths people will go to defend GW. The fact you design apps honestly has zero worth to me because it isn't a defense for the app.

That's why I said I wasn't defending GW there.

Being at the highest price point GW should have the best UI and be entirely functional and it is not.

 kodos wrote:

ccs wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
When you think about it, GW has pretty much built its dominance on nice UI (models) with barely passable innards (rules) for an extremely premium price, so maybe it's no surprise that they're taking the same approach to app design.

Lol. But it actually matters for an App.

it actually matters for the game as well, but GW marketing has told people over years that they should not care because it is not possible to do better

with the App it will be similar, GW will tell people that it is not perfect and might have some mistake, but it is the best people can make without taking too much time and they need to rise the prise again because a company need to live

and those people will believe them and defend it as the truth (because otherwise they would have spend too much money on an inferior product, and it is easier to pretend that the product is good than to admit a mistake)

Yes, but my premium priced models don't require GW rules to still have value/be useful. The books also contain entertainment value in the form of the fiction & all the imagination that inspires. Decent rules would certainly be nice though (and some editions are better than other for this).
But an app that doesn't work.... Not valuable at all from the consumer end of things.

Most people buy the books and the models first and foremost for the rules.

ccs 796009 11053872 wrote:
Yes, but my premium priced models don't require GW rules to still have value/be useful. The books also contain entertainment value in the form of the fiction & all the imagination that inspires. Decent rules would certainly be nice though (and some editions are better than other for this).
But an app that doesn't work.... Not valuable at all from the consumer end of things.

I don't think many people would buying codex if they didn't have rules in them. Same with model buyings, I understand that there is a group of people that buys them just to have them, but in general people tend to buy the stuff they want to play with. And for new players this seems to not just a possibility, but a general rule of buying stuff.

The rules have to be there to provide an excuse. They don't have to be good. The average GW customer doesn't even play the game more than a couple times a year, and GW is well aware of that fact, and it informs how little effort, energy and care they put into their rules as compared to their models.

How good did AoS do without rules? GW had to scramble to turn it in to a game real fast, because a game system without point costs wasn't doing that well.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, I design and program apps for a living ( among other things ), so....more of a professional opinion.

And nuthin' quite says "professional" like GW's new app.

I mean, they made an app and people paid for it, so yeah.

I give GW credit, it's a lot prettier than BS.

 fraser1191 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, I design and program apps for a living ( among other things ), so....more of a professional opinion.

And nuthin' quite says "professional" like GW's new app.

I mean, they made an app and people paid for it, so yeah.

I give GW credit, it's a lot prettier than BS.

Without any of the functionality. And it isn't like Battlescribe is UGLY in any sense, it just isn't pretty.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, I design and program apps for a living ( among other things ), so....more of a professional opinion.

And nuthin' quite says "professional" like GW's new app.

I mean, they made an app and people paid for it, so yeah.

I give GW credit, it's a lot prettier than BS.

Without any of the functionality. And it isn't like Battlescribe is UGLY in any sense, it just isn't pretty.

I don't have it so I don't know how unfunctional it is.

I just wish that BS would let me make my own data and send it to my friends then I wouldn't even consider GW's app

 fraser1191 wrote:

I just wish that BS would let me make my own data and send it to my friends then I wouldn't even consider GW's app

BS comes with a Data Editor. I've never been able to get it to work, admittedly, but I've also not tried particularly hard nor looked for guides on their site/forums/etc.

 fraser1191 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 fraser1191 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Well, I design and program apps for a living ( among other things ), so....more of a professional opinion.

And nuthin' quite says "professional" like GW's new app.

I mean, they made an app and people paid for it, so yeah.

I give GW credit, it's a lot prettier than BS.

Without any of the functionality. And it isn't like Battlescribe is UGLY in any sense, it just isn't pretty.

I don't have it so I don't know how unfunctional it is.

I just wish that BS would let me make my own data and send it to my friends then I wouldn't even consider GW's app

I'd give it a go. It took me a bit to figure out how to download the files, but from there it's pretty smooth sailing. Like I said, it ain't the prettiest, but the options are usually all accurate and up to date within a week or two within the newest release.

Only thing I don't like about BattleScribe right now is that the Marine files appear to have lost the "Show Primaris Only" option.

But that's a very minor issue.

What is good software is a non-trivial topic
Give this a read if you want to get an rough idea, and don't worry if you don't understand more than half of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_quality

BattleScribe has a rather bad UX, barely above that of a designer fresh out of college. There is no glossing over this, there simply is no need to have a UI complexity akin to a software development tool for pushing a pile of models together, and solving a complex problem like with with tree controls is an approach about two decades old. Other tools have done this much better, but are obviously lacking in other departments.

In addition, its data model is veeery inefficient, which causes many performance issues, especially when it is confronted with the space marine bloat. That's the reason why they had to curb the primaris only function by the way.

Neither problem is bad enough that it makes it unusable though.

Outside of those two things BS is pretty much a slam-dunk though. It is quite reliable, doesn't crash, supports multiple platforms, automatically updates both data and software, has multiple export formats, including for print and can store and import an entire library of lists.

That's all nice and dandy, but the core requirement every single one of us has towards our army builder is that the data is correct enough to rarely bother us and have it easily accessible during list building and have the data available during gaming.

So while the 40k app is probably an overall better piece of software, it simply fails to fulfill the core requirements.
Kind of like a car that has all the comfort features, but no motor.

I am not seeing this better software really, and on the IPad it’s really bad missing even basic features that battle scribe can handle without issues.

I don’t even think it looks particularly better, at least not for a payed app of its price when compared to other company apps.

Usability as well on the iPad is a mess, as they haven’t even done the basics it seems to work with the compatibility for phone apps on the iPad.
So it basicly loses a lot of its positives it has in its design by simply being run on a iPad it seems right now.
All why asking for money, and considering how many tablets I see for gaming I wonder if that’s a big issue.
It’s probably every game someone has a tablet here for rules and books. It’s just so clearly unfinished that even if the experiance is better than battlescribe half the players here would possibly not even know it.

I also have the Age of sigmar app, and these issues are not here. It’s fully compatible with the iPad so I have to wonder exactly was going on, as it’s not there first app experiance as a company.

The "better software" comment was considering the whole thing, not just what consumers see on their side.

It's also a rather common thing for developers to build a "better software" that consumers hate

 Jidmah wrote:
The "better software" comment was considering the whole thing, not just what consumers see on their side.

It's also a rather common thing for developers to build a "better software" that consumers hate

So modern

So with the free trial and lower monthly fee I thought I'd give the app another go, this time with a suscription so I could try Battle Forge...

In general, it's nicer than BattleScribe (which I also have a subscription for) - much more professional, much quicker to put together a list, and much easier and cleaner to export.

However, there are a few issues:

1) The export only shows you wargear that affected the points cost of each unit - fine for seeing the points breakdown, but not so good for showing your opponent what weapons each of your unit has. Some trait choices aren't shown either (Chaos Knights dread household bonds for example).

2) There are still bugs - for my Ultramarines army I get validation errors on the TAC squads (appaently changing one bolter for a missile launcher is too many heavy weapons), and the 5 point teleport homer causes the points value to change by 10 points.

3) The price is still too high - given that everyone using it will have already bought hardcopy rules and miniatures from GW, asking £24/year is too much (BattleScribe is £3/year for comparison).

Honestly, at that price I cant see myself keeping it beyond the end of the free trial, even if they address the bugs and improve the export.

 Jidmah wrote:
What is good software is a non-trivial topic
Give this a read if you want to get an rough idea, and don't worry if you don't understand more than half of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_quality

BattleScribe has a rather bad UX, barely above that of a designer fresh out of college. There is no glossing over this, there simply is no need to have a UI complexity akin to a software development tool for pushing a pile of models together, and solving a complex problem like with with tree controls is an approach about two decades old. Other tools have done this much better, but are obviously lacking in other departments.

In addition, its data model is veeery inefficient, which causes many performance issues, especially when it is confronted with the space marine bloat. That's the reason why they had to curb the primaris only function by the way.

Neither problem is bad enough that it makes it unusable though.

Outside of those two things BS is pretty much a slam-dunk though. It is quite reliable, doesn't crash, supports multiple platforms, automatically updates both data and software, has multiple export formats, including for print and can store and import an entire library of lists.

That's all nice and dandy, but the core requirement every single one of us has towards our army builder is that the data is correct enough to rarely bother us and have it easily accessible during list building and have the data available during gaming.

So while the 40k app is probably an overall better piece of software, it simply fails to fulfill the core requirements.
Kind of like a car that has all the comfort features, but no motor.

Agreed - a point on the data model. BS attempts to be a one-size fits all sort of thing, which is where it gets rough. I've mentioned many times that an army builder for GW would be silly complex due to the exceptions and other army building rules that exist. And what's worse is new codexes may not even be consistent with that.

If the programmers don't have a ton of experience making the model extensible then they'd probably be losing their minds right about now.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
What is good software is a non-trivial topic
Give this a read if you want to get an rough idea, and don't worry if you don't understand more than half of it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_quality

BattleScribe has a rather bad UX, barely above that of a designer fresh out of college. There is no glossing over this, there simply is no need to have a UI complexity akin to a software development tool for pushing a pile of models together, and solving a complex problem like with with tree controls is an approach about two decades old. Other tools have done this much better, but are obviously lacking in other departments.

In addition, its data model is veeery inefficient, which causes many performance issues, especially when it is confronted with the space marine bloat. That's the reason why they had to curb the primaris only function by the way.

Neither problem is bad enough that it makes it unusable though.

Outside of those two things BS is pretty much a slam-dunk though. It is quite reliable, doesn't crash, supports multiple platforms, automatically updates both data and software, has multiple export formats, including for print and can store and import an entire library of lists.

That's all nice and dandy, but the core requirement every single one of us has towards our army builder is that the data is correct enough to rarely bother us and have it easily accessible during list building and have the data available during gaming.

So while the 40k app is probably an overall better piece of software, it simply fails to fulfill the core requirements.
Kind of like a car that has all the comfort features, but no motor.

Agreed - a point on the data model. BS attempts to be a one-size fits all sort of thing, which is where it gets rough. I've mentioned many times that an army builder for GW would be silly complex due to the exceptions and other army building rules that exist. And what's worse is new codexes may not even be consistent with that.

If the programmers don't have a ton of experience making the model extensible then they'd probably be losing their minds right about now.

Yeah, you're spot on with this IMO. I would HATE to be the PM on this right now ...

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Agreed - a point on the data model. BS attempts to be a one-size fits all sort of thing, which is where it gets rough. I've mentioned many times that an army builder for GW would be silly complex due to the exceptions and other army building rules that exist. And what's worse is new codexes may not even be consistent with that.

If the programmers don't have a ton of experience making the model extensible then they'd probably be losing their minds right about now.

I haven't looked into it in detail, but to me it always seemed like their data is not abstract enough and too close to actually trying to code 40k rules - but it's always easier to tell people what they have done wrong than getting it right yourself when you are in their position

Tycho wrote:
Yeah, you're spot on with this IMO. I would HATE to be the PM on this right now ...

If the development team is an external company they have hit a gold mine with this
Honestly, with my current company and team I'd probably love to take over that project. I've had worse.
However, whether you are able to salvage it heavily depends on company culture. If it's just a bunch of half-knowing suits driving their own agendas (and it probably is), there is little chance of getting this out of the failure bin. Good software takes time, and since they are charging money for this, taking your time is not an option.

 Jidmah wrote:
but it's always easier to tell people what they have done wrong than getting it right yourself when you are in their position

That's when it's the most fun - it isn't your problem!

I am not sure, if this isn't people other problem. What if GW decides one day that core books are sold with codex, but all supplements are digital only? then being forced in to a subscription of a bad app, very fast becomes a your problem too.

Oh no, all my ork and death guard supplements!

Karol wrote:

ccs wrote:

Pointer5 wrote:
First they need to fix it. Second they need to make it free. After that go digital with the rules and make them free also. Especially with how they keep jacking up the minis prices.

Free - HA! Believe me, with GW you'll pay for that. Well, someone will - when they buy their next box of minis.

GW app becomes free. Wake up in 10th ed with basic box of infantry costing 85$.

That'll probly happen no matter what the app costs really

Brother Castor wrote:
2) There are still bugs - ... the 5 point teleport homer causes the points value to change by 10 points.

I see this same bug when adding or removing a Watcher in the Dark. In both cases it only occurs when viewing the detachment. When you come out of that to the page above the points are correct.

is it gwapps@gwplc.com to give feedback on apps like Battleforged?

nareik wrote:
is it gwapps@gwplc.com to give feedback on apps like Battleforged?

Sort of - you get the following automated reply:

Thanks for getting in touch with us about the issues you have spotted in the app!

The technomancers more commonly known as the App Team are collating all bugs in the below survey. If you could pop the details in on the front page of this, this will get through to them in a format they can work with, and get cracking on making the app even better than it currently is right away!

<SurveyMonkey link>

Any other non bug related queries in your email will be being reviewed by our team, and someone will be back in touch in the next 5 working days with a response for you.

Happy Hobbying.

Needless to say, I filled in the survey (which was mostly nothing to do with bug reporting) and heard nothing back.

I like the Win Your Dream Army promotion.

You build a list, presumably for models you already own. You win those same models if your list is chosen.

Or you think about it for five seconds, and submit a list with models you don't own...

<Quietly looks at the Tallarn infantry list he's been working on>
Yep, gonna get riiiiiiiiiiight on that lotto event.

 waefre_1 wrote:
<Quietly looks at the Tallarn infantry list he's been working on>
Yep, gonna get riiiiiiiiiiight on that lotto event.

Then you win and GW ships you a bunch of Cadians or derpy Catachans

 Matt.Kingsley wrote:

 waefre_1 wrote:
<Quietly looks at the Tallarn infantry list he's been working on>
Yep, gonna get riiiiiiiiiiight on that lotto event.

Then you win and GW ships you a bunch of Cadians or derpy Catachans

Can't put what they don't sell in the cart, and if I wanted Cadians or Catachans I'd, y'know, buy Cadians or Catachans.