I really enjoyed it! A lot of these old stories deserved to be made into such tales, and being told from the Ork perspective allowed the story to twist and weave from bloody fight to bloody fight without needing to spend time any time on fiddly bits. And it even had character development and a point to it!
Spoiler:
I figured that the two boys would have "learned the lesson" and made an enemy out of the Runtherd, and when that challenge comes, they don't, and they chicken out and run - so theyz not propa boyz yet!
So, simple? Sure! Old story? Sure! Enjoyable? You bet!
Animation quality was horrid, barely above slideshow level.
I think they've worked well with the budget they've got. Clearly there wasn't money to animated the whole thing to 80-90s level anime. What they have instead is a very solid style of animation that works. I think it also works well as this is more of a narrated story summary than it is an in depth adventure.
I'd also say that it does its job well, you don't really have to understand too much of the setting to get what's going on. Which is just what you want from some of these early works that are clearly aiming to reach out to new people - both new to warhammer and those new to the lore side of things who haven't read all the BL books.
Animation quality was horrid, barely above slideshow level.
I think they've worked well with the budget they've got. Clearly there wasn't money to animated the whole thing to 80-90s level anime. What they have instead is a very solid style of animation that works. I think it also works well as this is more of a narrated story summary than it is an in depth adventure.
Again, what budget is that supposed to be? 13 episodes of 23-minutes anime run at an average of 2 million dollars.
Yeah, it was okay for me as well. A bit difficult to follow ork's accent since english isn't my first language, I wouldn't have minded some subtitles at some time.
True, not everything was animated, but sometimes you don't need to for the story and I really like the "comix style" for some action scenes, like you were really reading one. Fits the tone nicely, IMHO.
Wonder if the other episodes are still told from the ork's point of view or if they'll go in a more traditionnal storytelling.
TBH, I wasn't expecting a DC animated movie, here, just an animated series you can see on a patreon channel (it's not that great either in comparison). So I wasn't expecting much from the start.
Still, can see the creators of this series put a lot of work in this one. Would have liked to know who they are, indeed.
Sarouan wrote: TBH, I wasn't expecting a DC animated movie, here, just an animated series you can see on a patreon channel (it's not that great either in comparison). So I wasn't expecting much from the start.
Still, can see the creators of this series put a lot of work in this one. Would have liked to know who they are, indeed.
Well, if they plan to play on the streaming service field (and charge), they better be on par with at least some of them.
Well, if they plan to play on the streaming service field (and charge), they better be on par with at least some of them.
Sure. Though reason why I'm not subscribing to Netflix instead of Warhammer + is because I want to see Warhammer related content - and I won't find it on Netflix.
And if I subscribe to Miniwargaming...I know I won't find any animated series here as well. Yet the price is still somewhat the same.
Comparing contents is good, but better to see if content comparison is relevant as well.
Well, if they plan to play on the streaming service field (and charge), they better be on par with at least some of them.
Sure. Though reason why I'm not subscribing to Netflix instead of Warhammer + is because I want to see Warhammer related content - and I won't find it on Netflix.
And if I subscribe to Miniwargaming...I know I won't find any animated series here as well. Yet the price is still somewhat the same.
Comparing contents is good, but better to see if content comparison is relevant as well.
Sure, but what could be more relevant that between streaming services, given that's what W+ is?
If your only retort to that is "not warhammer on Netflix"... well, yeah. No Star Wars on Netflix either, nor Marvel. But there's Warhammer on Youtube, of a similar quality, and that's free. Was even more, back when GW didn't want to create their own service, so you're objectively worse off now.
Comparing it with a subscription to Miniwargaming, though? That is doing a "non relevant" comparison.
And that's not even going into the "how much content there even is" territory...
Albertorius wrote: Animation quality was horrid, barely above slideshow level.
If you get rid of all the fan animations, none can compare your poor animation quality to fan work.
Clever, GW.
Albertorius wrote: And that's not even going into the "how much content there even is" territory...
The vast majority of people are probably only subscribing for the models and would probably care less if + was just the 40k App and a digital catalogue. Attitudes largely did a complete 180 around the web once the "freebie" was revealed despite it actually having less content than what largely seemed to be predicted. The animations could be Eddie and Adam playing with finger puppets while telling us they're the best shadows ever and people would now be fine with it because £50 for a Vindicare statue is about what they'd pay retail anyway.
Well, if they plan to play on the streaming service field (and charge), they better be on par with at least some of them.
Sure. Though reason why I'm not subscribing to Netflix instead of Warhammer + is because I want to see Warhammer related content - and I won't find it on Netflix.
And if I subscribe to Miniwargaming...I know I won't find any animated series here as well. Yet the price is still somewhat the same.
Comparing contents is good, but better to see if content comparison is relevant as well.
well, until we have a better idea of the quality of the other elements (the loremaster videos, the batreps, etc), then its rather hard to make a serious comparison to what is already available for free elsewhere.
I, for one, was happy enough with the quality of the animation. its hard to say if they leant into that art style for purely artistic or logistical/budgetary reasons, but the animator still managed to make it work. i intend to subscribe anyway as i currently use the 40K app which is getting rolled into this, so any decent work, particuarlly AOS stuff that might get some more converts for that game form the 40K side, would be most welcome.
The_Real_Chris wrote: Fairly low quality stuff, wouldn’t have me subscribe at Netflix level prices.
Even the most basic Netflix plan which only lets you watch on one device and isn't HD is 30% more than Warhammer+ when paying monthly or 45% more compared to Warhammer+ if you're paying annually. If you go with a standard Netflix plan, which I assume is what most people have, you're at nearly 3 times the price of Warhammer+.
That doesn't include all the app support and annual model you get either.
So sure, while the quality shown so far doesn't match the quality of a Netflix original show or movie, I think it's still decent and I found the episode enjoyable. Netflix also didn't start out with the level of content they have now(they actually didn't have any original content), they can produce that through the revenue they make from subscriptions. So Warhammer+ also has the ability to produce better content over time with the money made from subscriptions.
It seems there's this fan entitlement that media content should be free because you are a fan and/or pay a lot for miniatures already, which is absurd. You don't get free books from Black Library because you bought some models.
While on the subject of Black Library, and I think it's a good example of what level of content can be made over time with dedicated media channels within the overall GW company. Early days could be hot or miss with novels, but overtime they've really built a large subsection of high quality content that has its own consumers that may not interact with other aspects of the Warhammer product offerings. Plenty of people read books but don't collect models or play the games. And many more may do that but found that hobby through the books.
I think it's safe to assume the same could be true with Warhammer+ and probably on a much larger scale, as streaming media is just a more accessible and convenient format than books for many people.
For me this preview episode was enough to convince me it's worth a $60 annual purchase to see what they produce in the first year, and frankly, because I really want the Vindicare model. $60 is less than two tickets to a movie with some snacks thrown in. Not really a bad value proposition when you consider the overall content across a year of streaming service.
It was nice they chose a classic story to put out there. I like the overall art style but as others noted there's barely any animation in it. I'd be very impressed if this was an independent production but since it's produced by GW it's very underwhelming.
Also, the Space Marine models looked really weird when they showed up, perhaps my streaming quality died off during that segment.
The Red Hobbit wrote: It was nice they chose a classic story to put out there. I like the overall art style but as others noted there's barely any animation in it. I'd be very impressed if this was an independent production but since it's produced by GW it's very underwhelming.
Also, the Space Marine models looked really weird when they showed up, perhaps my streaming quality died off during that segment.
The space marine segment and a few with ghazkul near the end looked like they used 3d models to do the armor and just didn't do a good job blending them with the rest.
Comparing it with a subscription to Miniwargaming, though? That is doing a "non relevant" comparison.
Why not ? They do produce daily content and it's mainly about Warhammer. They litterally built a business out of it - like with a physical place and all, it's not amateur work at all, they have paid employees to produce all that content. Granted, there are a lot of battle reports...but everything is painted, they do have a lot of different terrains and even if you tend to have the same armies on long term without guests, it does help to keep it varied still.
They also make reviews and painting tutorials, and give a few discounts on their store (doesn't help for me since the shipping kills me in EU). And I like their narrative campaigns where they do put a lot of work in these.
Their subscription is still $ 7,95 per month if you take their yearly Silver Membership, $11,95 if you took it monthly.
Yet, I don't mind subscribing to them if their content is good. And it is, from my point of view. Helps a lot you can already enjoy all of their past videos.
well, until we have a better idea of the quality of the other elements (the loremaster videos, the batreps, etc), then its rather hard to make a serious comparison to what is already available for free elsewhere.
Totally agree about that. Though to be honest, the "free miniature" and the access to previous books is already worth it to give it a try in the first year.
GW know they have to start from scratch here. It's not like Miniwargaming, that does have a lot of content even if you're a first subscriber right now. You know that even if you pay certainly more for just one month, you will have enough to keep you busy for that very month already.
With Warhammer +, if I can read the previous books / white dwarves...well, even if they don't have much video content, I can at least keep myself busy with the nostalgia.
Got to the bit where we see Yarrick driving into battle aboard the Fortress of Arrogance, and outside Helsreach - but the audio seemed very out of sync?
Is it just me, or a stylistic thing, or should I try a different device?
Got to the bit where we see Yarrick driving into battle aboard the Fortress of Arrogance, and outside Helsreach - but the audio seemed very out of sync?
Is it just me, or a stylistic thing, or should I try a different device?
Didn't notice. Maybe your connection was out of sync ?
It's not wowing me, but I can see how the apps, the bonus model, the hobby tutorials, the live shows of GW events, the battle reports, the White Dwarf archive, and the animations will all add up to a person finding $6 worth of value in it a month.
Also, knowing the Warhammer community, plenty of young men will take pride in being a subscriber, who buys a year of it at a time.
I love that story and really dig the animation.
Still not enough to get me to subscribe though. If they can put out value, I'm in. Unfortunately, I have the feeling this will be another GW bare minimum effort. Too bad, I'd love to be wrong but we'll see.
frankelee wrote: It's not wowing me, but I can see how the apps, the bonus model, the hobby tutorials, the live shows of GW events, the battle reports, the White Dwarf archive, and the animations will all add up to a person finding $6 worth of value in it a month.
Also, knowing the Warhammer community, plenty of young men will take pride in being a subscriber, who buys a year of it at a time.
I’m in for the first year. Rationalising it, I need that Vindicare (my well good painter mate and I have mad plans for it), so that’s already £21 of the cost taken care of, leaving me needing to “find” £29 worth of relative value from the rest.
...are they a streaming plattform? No? That's why.
They do have their own website where you can only see their subscribing videos. And they do use that to do so :
Vault videos stream through Vimeo, which you can watch through our website on any device that has access to an Internet Browser.
What does streaming platform mean?
By definition, a streaming platform is an on-demand online entertainment source for TV shows, movies and other streaming media. For example, think of things like Hulu, Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, Vimeo, and Sundance Now.
Well...cheap quality one. Wouldn't subscribe for this and if i subscribe wouldn't bother watching. If i subscribe it's for model and other stuff if it's good enough. This i skip in heartbeat
...are they a streaming plattform? No? That's why.
They do have their own website where you can only see their subscribing videos. And they do use that to do so :
Vault videos stream through Vimeo, which you can watch through our website on any device that has access to an Internet Browser.
What does streaming platform mean?
By definition, a streaming platform is an on-demand online entertainment source for TV shows, movies and other streaming media. For example, think of things like Hulu, Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, Vimeo, and Sundance Now.
Well, I started paying for the 40k app a few months ago and just unsubscribed from the AoS app as it seems to be discontinued and still has no stats for the Dominion models I got into AoS with.
I was hoping that paying a few quid extra to cover both apps and get some good bonus vids would be worth it.
Personally, I wouldn't have wasted my time watching that sample vid if it had been a youtube thing. If GW seriously want to charge near Netflix prices for a slideshow that would barely make it to an obscure kids cartoon cable/sky channel, then I'm even more gobsmacked by what GW loyalists are prepared to pay for.
With the millions GW make in profit, *that* was their best effort to persuade people to subscribe to W+ just before release. Sheesh.
kirotheavenger wrote: I mentally calculated the value of their lore, batreps, and painting tutorials as zero.
That content is already available, for free, on Youtube and at much higher quality than what I'm sure GW will ever be able to put out.
Yeah, sure, it's not like GW doesn't have lots of skilled painters already in their painting studio.
And it's not like Duncan's own business doesn't already propose subscribing for painting videos on his site and he's still not going bankrupt, even though there are lots of "free, higher quality videos" elsewhere.
Hyperbole again without even knowing what will be put on, anyway. Power of prejudices.
I wonder though if they'll keep using Brightcove for their Warhammer + videos.
...are they a streaming plattform? No? That's why.
They do have their own website where you can only see their subscribing videos. And they do use that to do so :
Vault videos stream through Vimeo, which you can watch through our website on any device that has access to an Internet Browser.
What does streaming platform mean?
By definition, a streaming platform is an on-demand online entertainment source for TV shows, movies and other streaming media. For example, think of things like Hulu, Netflix, Amazon Prime Video, Vimeo, and Sundance Now.
So...yeah, they're kinda using one, actually.
Also, now I think about it. Is this a streaming platform? No.
It is very like MiniWargaming (what I know of it from the blurb, I don’t get it myself), the content inside etc.
People are just talking the animation like it’s the main thing - and maybe that’s GW’s fault for how they explained it.
But it’s similar in what you get for all the rest of the hobby content etc, just a free (or ‘free’ if you’re gonna start on that again) model and some animations too..
Anyway. The animation.
Was alright, enjoyed watching it, would be Happy watching loads of that quality and enjoyment.
Wasn’t a waste of my time.
Whether when you apply money to see if it’s a waste still, undecided yet..
kirotheavenger wrote: I mentally calculated the value of their lore, batreps, and painting tutorials as zero.
That content is already available, for free, on Youtube and at much higher quality than what I'm sure GW will ever be able to put out.
Yeah, sure, it's not like GW doesn't have lots of skilled painters already in their painting studio.
And it's not like Duncan's own business doesn't already propose subscribing for painting videos on his site and he's still not going bankrupt, even though there are lots of "free, higher quality videos" elsewhere.
Hyperbole again without even knowing what will be put on, anyway. Power of prejudices.
I wonder though if they'll keep using Brightcove for their Warhammer + videos.
I'm not sure what you're saying.
Duncan has plenty of videos up for free, you can subscribe for more.
As do many other creators.
I thought it was great! So many people complaining about the animation quality, but I think it is spot on. They made a deliberate animation choice. I get mega late 80's/90's comic feel from it. I feel like it could have been a part of "Heavy Metal", and it would have fit just fine. Not everything is going to look like Astartes, or some hugely funded studio animation.
It makes me excited to see what else they have, and it seriously makes me consider a subscription.
kirotheavenger wrote: I mentally calculated the value of their lore, batreps, and painting tutorials as zero.
That content is already available, for free, on Youtube and at much higher quality than what I'm sure GW will ever be able to put out.
Yeah, sure, it's not like GW doesn't have lots of skilled painters already in their painting studio.
And it's not like Duncan's own business doesn't already propose subscribing for painting videos on his site and he's still not going bankrupt, even though there are lots of "free, higher quality videos" elsewhere.
Hyperbole again without even knowing what will be put on, anyway. Power of prejudices.
I wonder though if they'll keep using Brightcove for their Warhammer + videos.
The difference is Duncan Rhodes has loads of free videos, as does every other painter out there on YT. There are countless batrep channels thagt I suspect will be vastly better than anything GW can produce because they're not railroaded into being a purely marketing service. Likewise, lore videos are available on YT, not that I'm really a fan of that type of video anyway.
I agree with Kiro here. The only thing of any potential value to me in the WH+ package is the animations and the model. The assassin's fine, I guess, but I hate the big statue and I already have 2 Vindicares so it's not really providing any extra value to me. The animation they just previewed was...fine. If it was on Netflix or Disney+ I wouldn't begrudge watching an episode or two if the story was something of interest but when it's the only thing on your service it needs to be a lot better than that, IMO, to persuade me to spend money on it.
I'll also add a vote of agreement. Batreps and painting tutorials of good quality are already available online for free so they don't add any value to Warhammer+. The only value in Warhammer+ would be the free model and the animations, neither of which are enticing to me.
That said our household isn't a fan of monthly subscriptions so outside of Netflix which we've had since the late 2000s we've never really been tempted by anything else.
I was pleasantly surprised by this little preview. I rolled my eyes when it started but about the time the squigs were on screen, I was getting into it. I've always been a fan of old Ork fluff and Commissar Yarrick, so seeing the Ork POV on this was really cool. The direction and writing softened the subpar animation.
Will I get GW's channel? Hell no! Was this something I enjoyed for free today? Totally
The Red Hobbit wrote: I'll also add a vote of agreement. Batreps and painting tutorials of good quality are already available online for free so they don't add any value to Warhammer+. The only value in Warhammer+ would be the free model and the animations, neither of which are enticing to me.
Don't worry, I'm sure eventually GW will 'take care' of those two for you so that you can enjoy all this fantastic Warhammer(tm) content in only one place!
Well I do like the 80s styling and it would be fine if its fan animation (actually very good if that is the case!) but I have bit higher standards if its supposed to be for suscription service.
If that was supposed to be a showpiece to try and get people to think it's worth subscribing, then IMO it's failed badly. I expect my animation to have some actual animation in it and not look like a flash video I downloaded 20 years ago.
Watched it. I'm sure the people behind it poured their skills and time into the episode, but I'm afraid either GW gave them shoestring budget or their skills just aren't up to professional level animation. This would be great as a fan-project, but as something you're supposed to pay for later, not at all.
More of a slideshow than a cartoon and is there a worse framing device than "let me tell you a story"?
Oof, that was rough. I stopped halfway because I just couldn't get interested because the animations were done so poorly. The art is nice, but far too much is just stills and silly animations of those stills. Not for me at all, but for those who do like it, enjoy!
I thought the animation was ok - they clearly had to cut a lot of corners, but the corners were cut in ways that also made sense stylistically, so it all fits together pretty nicely.
But it's basically exactly what I was afraid this was going to be - fan animation with better voice acting. Is it cool and entertaining? Sure. Is it worth paying money for? Uuuh... what else you got?
For what is likely a very new and fresh animation team, it was well done. There was a style they were going for and they used quite a few shortcuts, but compare that to any indie animation studio and they did well.
If they grow as an indie studio and aren't forced into unreasonable deadlines, they'll have an opportunity to improve their animation skills and learn the tools of their trade. "Practicing" on an old story like this is fantastic, as it lets them show off their style without breaking the mold while staying true to the lore.
Yes it's simple, but the composition was good, the cuts were good, the style was consistent. I'll be watching their career with interest to see if indeed they grow.
This comes after two months of practicing animation with Krita( damn good fun! ), and while its obvious that GW needs to hire some inbetween animators to stand alongside Netlix and Disney+, it was actually quite good fun!
Not quite convinced on signing up to Warhammer+, though.
SamusDrake wrote: This comes after two months of practicing animation with Krita( damn good fun! ), and while its obvious that GW needs to hire some inbetween animators to stand alongside Netlix and Disney+, it was actually quite good fun!
Not quite convinced on signing up to Warhammer+, though.
I think we agree on this - while it was a decent enough piece, I don’t think it was nearly impressive enough to convince someone on the fence that they needed to subscribe, though. I liked it, but not so much I would have been disappointed at all if I had missed it.
Hard to get a feeling for what viewing on the W+ app will be like from that, as I think it's just using the usual Warcom Brightcove player rather than whomever is supposed to be building the service for them and you can't view it on any other devices.
(Not least because I imagine that the actual service will have streaming DRM, which this doesn't.)
I posted in another thread that I didn’t like this but what I forgot to mention was that I couldn’t get it to stream from the Warhammer Community site itself (no sound and stopped loading after it played 40 or so seconds). I had to watch it on YouTube where someone had helpfully ripped it to.
Amusing conceit, but kinda naff execution. Too many obvious shortcuts on the animation (which, frankly, is mostly stills) and the voice acting (which is mostly grunts beyond the narrator-ork).
As a free youtube video its.. fine? As part of a monthly sub service, its a joke.
It doesn't hold a candle to VA and animation work by any of the real players in the industry.
drbored wrote: For what is likely a very new and fresh animation team, it was well done. There was a style they were going for and they used quite a few shortcuts, but compare that to any indie animation studio and they did well.
If they grow as an indie studio and aren't forced into unreasonable deadlines, they'll have an opportunity to improve their animation skills and learn the tools of their trade. "Practicing" on an old story like this is fantastic, as it lets them show off their style without breaking the mold while staying true to the lore.
Yes it's simple, but the composition was good, the cuts were good, the style was consistent. I'll be watching their career with interest to see if indeed they grow.
Great, but this is going to be paid product, not some bright-eyed amateur's Newgrounds flash project.
But I get the feeling that the Limited Edition model you pay for via this subscription is what most people are after, not any of the digital offerings.
drbored wrote: For what is likely a very new and fresh animation team, it was well done. There was a style they were going for and they used quite a few shortcuts, but compare that to any indie animation studio and they did well.
If they grow as an indie studio and aren't forced into unreasonable deadlines, they'll have an opportunity to improve their animation skills and learn the tools of their trade. "Practicing" on an old story like this is fantastic, as it lets them show off their style without breaking the mold while staying true to the lore.
Yeah, no. They didn't hire a bunch of kids straight out of animation school. Its a small industry with too many applicants, they can afford to pick and choose people who know what they're doing.
Once again, GW isn't a small indie company. They've got money to throw at this thing if they really want to make it work, and letting them off with that excuse is kinda horrible to the folks whose salaries they should be paying and who know how to do this job.
They aren't competing with 'any indie animation studio.' They're supposedly offering a premium product worth paying a monthly fee for. They're trying to compete in the big leagues now, and they need to put in the time and money if they're going to pretend their handful of offerings are worth the kind of money they plan to rake in.
alright so those claiming it's not worth it are comparing this single animation to netflix. I think warhammer plus needs to be looked at as a package deal. here's what GW is offering per the website.
- "A wealth" of warhammer animations. (we have no idea how much a wealth is obviously if there's a thousand animations right off the bat that we've never seen before that's gonna be differant then if there's 8 and all but 2 used to be on youtube for free so obviously we lack sufficant info to be 100% sure on this other then our opinion on that one animation)
- Weekly shows that focus on lore, gaming and painting - TBH I doubt this'll be a big draw but the lore bit could be a biiig draw in and of itself all the youtube lore channels are limited to whats already out there, it's just people looking through a varity of books etc and cataloguing. GW, by virtue of being GW, could put out genuinely new lore videos that could be a big draw. things like deep diving into the background of under developed subfactions etc so the lore videos at least depends on how ambitious GW wants to be.
- Full access to the warhammer apps: yeah ok, the 40kap isn't very good and I expect the new AOS one to just be that reskinned. so expect it to be underwhelming
-The Warhammer Vault, featuring issues of White Dwarf and other classic Warhammer publications - ya know depending on how this goes this could be a REALLY good value, with GW tearing the fluff out of the latest line of codices being able to have digital copies of the earlier codices etc could be worth it for that alone. likewise depending how when white dwarf stops that could be a really good value. If hypotheticly the white dwarf archive simply ended a month or two beyond the most current then it might be worth just cancelling your WD sub and getting WH+
-Exclusive monthly offers - we have no idea what this'll be. my guess is there will be occasional Primaris Leuitenants etc that are WH plus exclusive.
-Premium access to official Warhammer events - this is kinda vague, I suppose they could give WH+ subscribers first dibs on tickets to WH world events etc. but that seems pretty marginal. they might however run twitch streams only for WH+ members. maybe do AMAs etc. we'll need more info to know for sure. over all I'm classing this as "likely worthless, but could be huge"
- the Mini's : obviously YMMV with these but I think they're definatly gonna be a big draw.
So.. over all my opinion: WH plus could be barely more then a crappy animation channel, but if GW really pulls the stops out with some of the other stuff it could be a huge value. IF
This wasn’t a technological showcase. As others have said, it was a deliberate artistic choice that went off well with me. It felt like 40k, the Orks felt like Orks, it seemed to me the real thing all the way around.
BrianDavion wrote: alright so those claiming it's not worth it are comparing this single animation to netflix. I think warhammer plus needs to be looked at as a package deal. here's what GW is offering per the website.
- "A wealth" of warhammer animations. (we have no idea how much a wealth is obviously if there's a thousand animations right off the bat that we've never seen before that's gonna be differant then if there's 8 and all but 2 used to be on youtube for free so obviously we lack sufficant info to be 100% sure on this other then our opinion on that one animation)
'Wealth' = 11 (they name-dropped all the shows in one of the 'online previews' on warcom). And that's over the entire first year (or more, since Astartes 2 is in the list). They simply don't have a significant archive of material, and won't for decades.
Launch will be.. two shows. And maybe they'll be finished.
Lore videos are honestly... whatever. They've been recycling the same old stuff for decades now. Listening to some rando read through material an order of magnitude slower than I can read it is just a turn off.
The rest of it has even less value.
grahamdbailey wrote: I thought it was meh. GW should really have pulled out all the stops to wow us as an introduction to Warhammer+, and this certainly isn't that.
I thought similarly, but I really enjoyed it. I'd never read these origin stories. Quite fun.
My hobbyist's curse is that when I was younger, I had all the time in the world and no money. Now I have money to spend on the hobby but no time. This animation was metal enough to make me want to subscribe to W+, but sadly I don't have time in RL to watch enough Warhammer content to justify a subscription.
I for one loved this though and it definitely made me wish I had the time to watch everything Warhammer.
Lore videos are honestly... whatever. They've been recycling the same old stuff for decades now. Listening to some rando read through material an order of magnitude slower than I can read it is just a turn off.
The rest of it has even less value.
and if THAT is all their lore video is, yeah it'll suck. as I said the one strength GW has in this is they make the lore. so they can literally reveal never before known factoids etc, something the youtube lore channels can't do. they can bring in authors etc and ask them questions that WILL get answers. if they lean into this power, they'll stand out (not eneugh to be worth subscribing all by itself mind you as those factoids will swiftly be regurgitated by the youtube lore channels) the quality of the videos will certainl be key.
So I had posted the following on B&C, as I feel it's only a quick google away to learn more about the animators and stop making judgements about skill, experience, etc.
Essentially, Farside is a subsidary/sister company of the decade-old Sun and Moon Studios, led by two experienced UK animators, Louis Jones and Dylan Shipley, with long histories including Aardman and other sector stalwarts. Their clients include BBC, SquareEnix, and others. Traditionally S&M did non-feature animations, but Farside seems to be focused on that, and possibly was founded for Hammer and Bolter, but also had some SquareEnix work under its umbrella.
Needless to say these aren't inexperienced professionals.
So I googled Farside Features, the animators.
It's intriguing that Farside Features was incorporated in 2019, i.e. by the time GW really was getting down to make content. That does suggest the company was founded specifically for H&B too - although their website features a SquareEnix advert too, also featured on Sun and Moon Studios, which is also run by the directors of Farside, and from which Farside spun off to focus more on story it seems.
And if you want to see some of their other work from S&M's website. A recent one, is a Life is Strange Trailer for SquareEnix, which is the middle part of the following advertisment:
Among other works are a second doctor Doctor Who animation for BBC, a Just Cause 3 Trailer for SE (also featured on Farside's website), and others are on their website and Vimeo.
Overall, really interesting and a great pair of creatives, with a strong company with varied portfolio, to partner with. It's great the story beats are coming from the Storyforge team, but FF have experimented with lots of different kinds of outputs and its clear both Shipley and Jones are passionate animators.
For some of the way Sun and Moon was regarded, see Jones's recommendations on LinkedIn:
Spoiler:
Recommendations
I worked with Louis and the Sun and Moon team on the first series of Kit & Pup for CBeebies. He is a true creative leader with an understanding of how to take a script and use physicality, humour and timing to c
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I first worked with Louis several years ago just as his company started. Since then I have seen the impact of his leadership and creativity building Sun and Moon into an incredible animation company. Despite the ra
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It's rare to find the whole package in one place, but that's what I found working with Louis; a highly creative and talented animation expert; customer-focused; marketing savvy; fun and friendly. The project we wo
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We commissioned Louis' company Sun and Moon Studios to create three animated films for our educational resource, design and develop the CD-Rom software and do our website as well as a load of marketi
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Louis has fantastic flair for colour and design. He has great sense of timing and all these qualities make him a very skilled character designer and animator and a pleasure to work with. He is also a very talented voice actor
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Louis Jones is very experienced character designer, animator and voice actor who has worked on many projects for national television in the UK.
Had it been a trailer for their new orks vs Imperium campaign it would have been pretty decent. As a preview of a paid streaming service... not so much.
Lore videos are honestly... whatever. They've been recycling the same old stuff for decades now. Listening to some rando read through material an order of magnitude slower than I can read it is just a turn off.
The rest of it has even less value.
and if THAT is all their lore video is, yeah it'll suck. as I said the one strength GW has in this is they make the lore. so they can literally reveal never before known factoids etc, something the youtube lore channels can't do. they can bring in authors etc and ask them questions that WILL get answers. if they lean into this power, they'll stand out (not eneugh to be worth subscribing all by itself mind you as those factoids will swiftly be regurgitated by the youtube lore channels) the quality of the videos will certainl be key.
Doesn't matter. They can also just do 'new lore' and 'factoids' in books (or, shocking thought, WD?). I'm baffled by what you think the appeal is.
What you're talking about is basically distilling FOMO into little video snippets and trying to push people into subs because they might miss something. That's terrible.
If they even bother with it- GW's track record at being engaging on tech platforms AND 'official answers' are both really poor.
Billicus wrote: I really liked it, I guess the key is low expectations. No idea what some of y'all were expecting.
Animation? More than a line or two, then lots of grunting, from 80% of the voice actors (of which there were only a handful, since there wasn't any reason not to double up on the tiny roles outside the narrator)?
It was alright, good voice acting and story, but a story I've read many times. That animation was terrible, I'm not expecting Akira levels of quality, but something better than a early Newgrounds flash vid.
I would like to see what the guys of Love, Death, and Robots would come up with, that would be something special. Will I be subscribing? I honestly don't know, it doesn't seem worth it as it stands, even with the access to old White Dwarfs and the app features, paint and lore vids. I really do like that Vindicare model though and Orc.
If they threw in the latest White Dwarf in digital form It would be worth it.
I can't tell if GW are protecting what they think is the "good stuff" for Warhammer+ but they have continued to lead with weak content. I've continued to notice that the sound effects in these animations is usually very bad. No sense of scale. They had the same problem in the preview of Angels of Death. The Blood Angels cameo in this one is comically bad seemed like they went back and slapped it in.
Also I find it odd that they only put it up for a short time. Why not have it up always as an introduction to the service? I'd have been hyped several years ago if someone was making this on youtube, not a paid streaming service.
CMLR wrote: Funny how everyone is using this as the only point of reference when we have Astarters II coming up.
Well, I'll judge it when it comes then. Until that, one can only judge what actually exist.
What I tried to point out is that the offering quality is going to be all over the place, making it overall an awful experience. Not-so-greatly edited animations next to bloody Astartes and possibly Exodite.
CMLR wrote: Funny how everyone is using this as the only point of reference when we have Astarters II coming up.
Well, I'll judge it when it comes then. Until that, one can only judge what actually exist.
What I tried to point out is that the offering quality is going to be all over the place, making it overall an awful experience. Not-so-greatly edited animations next to bloody Astartes and possibly Exodite.
True enough, yeah.
Honestly, I might sub a month in a year or so... there's bound to be enough to binge for a month by then. Before that it feels like burning money for nothing, even if all the series were actually animated instead of what we've seen so far.
and if THAT is all their lore video is, yeah it'll suck. as I said the one strength GW has in this is they make the lore. so they can literally reveal never before known factoids etc, something the youtube lore channels can't do. they can bring in authors etc and ask them questions that WILL get answers. if they lean into this power, they'll stand out (not eneugh to be worth subscribing all by itself mind you as those factoids will swiftly be regurgitated by the youtube lore channels) the quality of the videos will certainl be key.
I think the lore videos will sadly further kill the background of 40k. It was written as a sandbox with a mishmash of historical references by a bunch of history grads. The new background is ever more constraining and focusing on a tiny handful of characters. I get they want to sell named characters but how they use them jetting all over the galaxy just rips up all their past ideas and lore that made the setting so interesting and unique. If they had the dune universe at this point they would have brought in super sarduka that had guns that pierced personal shields and had every battle headed by the same three guys.
Nearly every new addition to their background has actually reduced it in scope, grandeur and often horror as well. The best stab at the chaos gods in recent years wasn’t AoS reboot but the FFG chaos in the old world game.
That assumes they add anything new. Which I doubt. So far it seems GW's idea for the video side of the thing is "do what YT has been doing, but slap Nintendo Seal of Quality on it to show it's official". Maybe I'm wrong, but I expect them to just recap their own lore exactly like YT lore channels do, except with more official art since they have the copyright.
I think the lore videos will sadly further kill the background of 40k. It was written as a sandbox with a mishmash of historical references by a bunch of history grads. The new background is ever more constraining and focusing on a tiny handful of characters. I get they want to sell named characters but how they use them jetting all over the galaxy just rips up all their past ideas and lore that made the setting so interesting and unique. If they had the dune universe at this point they would have brought in super sarduka that had guns that pierced personal shields and had every battle headed by the same three guys.
Nearly every new addition to their background has actually reduced it in scope, grandeur and often horror as well. The best stab at the chaos gods in recent years wasn’t AoS reboot but the FFG chaos in the old world game.
Yeah, I mostly agree. Though I have to say some of the new Necromunda books actually have good additions to the lore. All those weird guilds and stuff like that. Having the regular life of the imperium detailed that way is nice, and far more interesting that the superhero level most 40K lore seems to operate these days.
PetitionersCity wrote: So I had posted the following on B&C, as I feel it's only a quick google away to learn more about the animators and stop making judgements about skill, experience, etc.
Essentially, Farside is a subsidary/sister company of the decade-old Sun and Moon Studios, led by two experienced UK animators, Louis Jones and Dylan Shipley, with long histories including Aardman and other sector stalwarts. Their clients include BBC, SquareEnix, and others. Traditionally S&M did non-feature animations, but Farside seems to be focused on that, and possibly was founded for Hammer and Bolter, but also had some SquareEnix work under its umbrella.
Needless to say these aren't inexperienced professionals.
CMLR wrote: Funny how everyone is using this as the only point of reference when we have Astarters II coming up.
Ok, you probably won't like hearing this, but Astartes 1 was a fairly dull sizzle reel. Its a _very_ good advertisement for getting the animator's skills noticed by a studio, but as a show or story, its a ball of nothing.
Astartes II is probably the least potentially interesting thing in the whole line up, and that's after seeing the low-budget corner cuts of Hammer and Bolter.
CMLR wrote: Funny how everyone is using this as the only point of reference when we have Astarters II coming up.
Ok, you probably won't like hearing this, but Astartes 1 was a fairly dull sizzle reel. Its a _very_ good advertisement for getting the animator's skills noticed by a studio, but as a show or story, its a ball of nothing.
Astartes II is probably the least potentially interesting thing in the whole line up, and that's after seeing the low-budget corner cuts of Hammer and Bolter.
CMLR wrote: Funny how everyone is using this as the only point of reference when we have Astarters II coming up.
Ok, you probably won't like hearing this, but Astartes 1 was a fairly dull sizzle reel. Its a _very_ good advertisement for getting the animator's skills noticed by a studio, but as a show or story, its a ball of nothing.
Astartes II is probably the least potentially interesting thing in the whole line up, and that's after seeing the low-budget corner cuts of Hammer and Bolter.
Story wise, Astartes took a while to get going... but what it was, was a beautifully animated and scored piece of work that was possibly the first animation that really got the size and nature of Marines right. Something along that line would have been a much better advertisement for Warhammer+ than this half-hearted attempt was.
The bale eye vid was an odd one. More like an animatic than a proper animation with some weird use of 3D that stuck out painfully. Perhaps it was originally going to be a comic book and they used some after effects to make it kinda an animation.
Still, it was reasonably fun. Would I pay for it? Eeeeh. Maybe i'd subscribe to a patreon supporting a solo artist making a fan passion project. A corporation pumping out product of this quality? Less so.
The killteam animation had me more hyped TBH. Can't quite quantify why though. Shorter and to the point? It wasn't running over a story we've been hearing since ghaz and yarrik were conceived? If this is the average quality of Warhammer+ i'm sad to say I won't be subscribing.
Love Death and Robots I think is the baseline here, and it felt live one of the lower ranked Season 1 episodes. I liked the concept (I'm watching a Warhammer+ show!) but yeah, I'm not going to sign up for the animation based on this - but I might have checked them out on another channel if I was already subscribed.
Have to see if it becomes an amazon prime thing, where the TV is part of the delivery service.,
Ok, you probably won't like hearing this, but Astartes 1 was a fairly dull sizzle reel. Its a _very_ good advertisement for getting the animator's skills noticed by a studio, but as a show or story, its a ball of nothing.
That is an interesting view, why do you think so. The media guys I know thought it was a excellent example of parred back storytelling. Minimal dialogue needed, captured a Sci Fi setting well, the lack of explanation enhanced its alien quality. A couple though it reminded them of a British, as opposed to US, comic strip. Something like the short one issue Judge Dredd stories.
Lore videos are honestly... whatever. They've been recycling the same old stuff for decades now. Listening to some rando read through material an order of magnitude slower than I can read it is just a turn off.
The rest of it has even less value.
and if THAT is all their lore video is, yeah it'll suck. as I said the one strength GW has in this is they make the lore. so they can literally reveal never before known factoids etc, something the youtube lore channels can't do. they can bring in authors etc and ask them questions that WILL get answers. if they lean into this power, they'll stand out (not eneugh to be worth subscribing all by itself mind you as those factoids will swiftly be regurgitated by the youtube lore channels) the quality of the videos will certainl be key.
That would be a horrible strategy. Warmahordes' lore suffered greatly due to several key elements being locked behind obscure sources. Putting them in random clips of videos? No thanks.
CMLR wrote: Funny how everyone is using this as the only point of reference when we have Astarters II coming up.
Ok, you probably won't like hearing this, but Astartes 1 was a fairly dull sizzle reel. Its a _very_ good advertisement for getting the animator's skills noticed by a studio, but as a show or story, its a ball of nothing.
Astartes II is probably the least potentially interesting thing in the whole line up, and that's after seeing the low-budget corner cuts of Hammer and Bolter.
Story wise, Astartes took a while to get going... but what it was, was a beautifully animated and scored piece of work that was possibly the first animation that really got the size and nature of Marines right. Something along that line would have been a much better advertisement for Warhammer+ than this half-hearted attempt was.
Pretty much this. Astartes was cool, if you knew gw history and what spacemarines are.
Now give me the Lord inquisitor level of animation and story scope ( ahhh what could if been) and I would be interested. Or something like Titanicus.
I was never the target audience for this product but meh even by GW's usual half ass standards this was bad.
I give the app two years before some middle manager or board member takes wh+ their pet project and scraps it for version 2.0 with a higher monthly fee and less options.
Lore videos are honestly... whatever. They've been recycling the same old stuff for decades now. Listening to some rando read through material an order of magnitude slower than I can read it is just a turn off.
The rest of it has even less value.
and if THAT is all their lore video is, yeah it'll suck. as I said the one strength GW has in this is they make the lore. so they can literally reveal never before known factoids etc, something the youtube lore channels can't do. they can bring in authors etc and ask them questions that WILL get answers. if they lean into this power, they'll stand out (not eneugh to be worth subscribing all by itself mind you as those factoids will swiftly be regurgitated by the youtube lore channels) the quality of the videos will certainl be key.
That would be a horrible strategy. Warmahordes' lore suffered greatly due to several key elements being locked behind obscure sources. Putting them in random clips of videos? No thanks.
sure if they locked down KEY stuff behind the videos that'd be a problem, but additional details that only dedicated fans would care about anyway? not a bad idea.
Silent Story Telling is a thing and whilst some people love it, others hate it. It can leave people rather divided on if something is good or bad. Astartes is basically silent story telling. So you have to make up some of the parts in between and mystery is part of the whole experience.
You'll either love it or you'll hate it or you'll just not get it.
The animation and models themselves look pretty good (although the facial expressions seem to be multiplied x10 and look goofy).
But the colour palette looks really bad to me. The red is way too vibrant and the contrast makes it harder to follow sometimes.
Silent Story Telling is a thing and whilst some people love it, others hate it. It can leave people rather divided on if something is good or bad. Astartes is basically silent story telling. So you have to make up some of the parts in between and mystery is part of the whole experience.
You'll either love it or you'll hate it or you'll just not get it.
Just because two different things (game/animated series) use a similar technique doesn't mean they are of the same quality. Ico also benefits from interactive storytelling, it being a game. Astartes also needs to be really good to deserve that comparison. This is not just about some people (dis-)liking some narrative technique.
Ico is a cult classic. Do you really think Astartes is comparable to that game besides some technicality?
Silent Story Telling is a thing and whilst some people love it, others hate it. It can leave people rather divided on if something is good or bad. Astartes is basically silent story telling. So you have to make up some of the parts in between and mystery is part of the whole experience.
You'll either love it or you'll hate it or you'll just not get it.
Just because two different things (game/animated series) use a similar technique doesn't mean they are of the same quality. Ico also benefits from interactive storytelling, it being a game. Astartes also needs to be really good to deserve that comparison. This is not just about some people (dis-)liking some narrative technique.
Ico is a cult classic. Do you really think Astartes is comparable to that game besides some technicality?
Pointing out a cult classic that won awards by using the same story telling approuch the thing your dicussing did is indeed a fair response to criticism about the form of storytelling
