Aside from "those guys but Chaos!" the newest factions are Tau and Nids as far as I remember and those have been around for some time already.
I'm not deep into GWs design philosophy and handling but how likely even is a new faction, do the players even want one?
If you do, what do you think are some unexplored niches in the roster?
For me it's a true robot "race". Yeah we have Mechanicus and to an extend Necron but they're not really true robots. With AI being such a threat to the Imperium, I'd love to see a sentient robot race with an AI/Singularity at its core. Might be getting close to Tyranid turf but basically an ever self replicating rogue AI that just wants to expand (or something cosmic horror-ish we just can't undestand ). With drones, tanks and all kinds of unconventional robot forms you could easily fill up an entire army roster with all kinds of cool robots. And lore wise it could fit neatly into the machine spirit parts and be a grim reminder to the Imperium about what happens when you make calculators too smart.
Probably has been thought of before and maybe there's even a reason why it won't happen but I always wondered how this isn't a thing already and I can see the minis clearly in my mind with a brutalist, blocky design.
The robot army niche is filled by the Necrons. Only those within the courts of the Necron nobility have any semblance of the people they were prior to the Bio-transference.
All the Canoptek constructs and anything lower than a Lychguard/Praetorian are mindless machines slaved to the will of an Overlord and even then an Overlord can call on Command Protocols at any point to turn anything under them into a puppet of their will.
More Xenos! Tyranids are more reptilian than anything so there's plenty of room for more bug-like aliens, like the megarachnids from the HH novels.
Design-wise I think we have enough factions so I would like to see new alien designs incorporated into the Tau or the Tyranids, depending on where they are on the humanoid-to-horrifying scale.
I don't think there's room for a new faction, but more Tau Auxilla or 'unaligned' alien mercenaries that could be taken by anyone would be good.
There was a rumour that 'Nid Gaunts are getting scaled down so there would be multiple on a single base (like rippers or nurglings), which could make them feel more swarm like...
beast beat me to it: I would also see some room for a kind of unaligned mercenary faction. Depends a bit if GW wants to explore the Tau alien auxilliary or not. If not (or not within the T'au faction) I could well see Kroot(mercenaries), Tarellan Dog soldiers, all other kind of Xenos (that would work as mercenaries), Gue'Vesa, human Mercenaries, Hive gangs, small Ork Boy groups etc.
Those could be allied in as detachment to most if not all other factions (I could see those working for an Ork-Warboss or a very pragmatic Necron Lord. Or even a Genestealer Cult. Only Tyranids could be picky when it comes to mercenaries but lore wise the later could just be infected with genestealers.
And as a bonus for going "mono-Mercenary" I could see the option to add certain units from other Codizes that migh (from a lore standpoint) work as temporary mercenaries, but that should not be easy to ally for other codizes. I don't know, stuff like Inquisitorial Akolytes, Ogryns that got lost from their regiment (and would likely not find back on their own) etc.
I'm not completely sure what one could give them to separate them from a gamey perspective to make them interesting in between the other factions. I guess the jiggsaw look alone might be funny
Outside of coming up with an entirely new alien race, most of the existing alien races that aren't yet in the game are minor enough not to fit in the table top game. And the ones who are a larger threat wouldn't work well(enslavers wouldn't work well on the tabletop). Kroot could work as their own faction with some fleshing out though, they have actually spread across the galaxy as mercenaries and probably outnumber the Tau.
But there are a lot of non-Imperial human factions that could potentially be used. The Adranti from the Calixus sector, an advanced human civilization mostly defeated by the Imperium, but remnants still hide in the shadows.
Is there room? Absolutely. Now more than ever, actually, as there have been rumors and hints about things at the edges of the map (Ghoul Stars, etc) for a long time. With the Great Rift disrupting everything, there's absolutely space for the growth of new threats as defenders and patrols fail, especially in the galactic 'north.'
Its a matter of taking the time and doing it properly, rather than just doing a mini-faction and changing their mind or not supporting it properly. (see ynnari elfs)
Fluff wise? I'd love to see the Q'orl be introduced as a greater presence. They're a bigger player than the Tau, are insectoid (as opposed to the Xenomorph/dino look of the nids) and are right smack dab next to Terra herself.
I mean, as far as non-imperial empires in 40k it *might* be the biggest, if not nearly the biggest, excluding ork empires. Pretty much the only thing they lack and has kept them in check is their lack of full warp drives. They know what Chaos is and how to deal with it, are quite resistant to it (both being a ant/bee like grouping and being able to alter their genetics), they've beaten the Imperium's sorry tail several times, and now are in the perfect place to expand. (One way I've seen it put is that if the Imperium is space Byzantium and Chaos is the Southern Slavs, the Q'orl are the Seljuks/Ottomans)
On tabletop however, with how stripped down the current edition is in general mechanics, I don't see a whole lot of design space available. As it stands the CWE are struggling to fit in a mechanical niche, and several other factions had advantages (such as CWE high initiative values) that were connected to mechanics that were removed and were never compensated for it. As much as I would like a new faction, I don't think that should happen until the game recovers some much needed mechanical depth. (And no GW, that doesn't mean a crap ton of stratagems and annoyingly obtuse faction-specific special rules)
Gert wrote: The robot army niche is filled by the Necrons. Only those within the courts of the Necron nobility have any semblance of the people they were prior to the Bio-transference.
All the Canoptek constructs and anything lower than a Lychguard/Praetorian are mindless machines slaved to the will of an Overlord and even then an Overlord can call on Command Protocols at any point to turn anything under them into a puppet of their will.
Yeah but Necrons are too humanoid and cultured as in their aesthetic and behaviour is too human like.They also hold grudges which is a little too anthropomorphized as is their design. The whole scarab/ancient egyptian aesthetic doesn't help either.
They also don't really make much use of them being robots. They just happen to be robotic but it isn't essential to their identity.
Yeah but Necrons are too humanoid and cultured as in their aesthetic and behaviour is too human like.They also hold grudges which is a little too anthropomorphized as is their design. The whole scarab/ancient egyptian aesthetic doesn't help either.
How does a machine holding a grudge make it less of a machine? Skynet comes online and then spends the next like 50 years eradicating humanity. Also not sure the ancient Egyptian style aesthetics make them less robotic? Being a machine doesn't mean the race doesn't have an ability to create art.
They also don't really make much use of them being robots. They just happen to be robotic but it isn't essential to their identity.
Yes. The immortal machines with the vast majority of its race lacking independent though or emotion that can be rebuilt not only in repair centres but on the battlefield and immediately start fighting again don't make good use of being robots.
Yeah but Necrons are too humanoid and cultured as in their aesthetic and behaviour is too human like.They also hold grudges which is a little too anthropomorphized as is their design. The whole scarab/ancient egyptian aesthetic doesn't help either.
How does a machine holding a grudge make it less of a machine? Skynet comes online and then spends the next like 50 years eradicating humanity. Also not sure the ancient Egyptian style aesthetics make them less robotic? Being a machine doesn't mean the race doesn't have an ability to create art.
They also don't really make much use of them being robots. They just happen to be robotic but it isn't essential to their identity.
Yes. The immortal machines with the vast majority of its race lacking independent though or emotion that can be rebuilt not only in repair centres but on the battlefield and immediately start fighting again don't make good use of being robots.
Well I'm not sure if it's intentional but the op is essentially describing necrons before the race was revamped in 5th ed to be more human/relatable. I like the current necrons but do miss the unknowable evil element the oldcrons had.
Theres like a million different flavors of space marines, so clearly there is room for more flavor of robot armies, etc.
Personally, I think GWs long term plan is to establish "networks" of inter-related armies that can broadly categorized under keywords. "Imperium" (AdMech, AdSororitas, AdCustodes, Space Marines, Astra militarum, Sisters of Silence, Militarum Tempestus, etc.) and "Chaos" (Heretic Astartes, Thousand Sons, Death Guard, Daemons, etc.) are very well developed, but "Xenos" doesn't really work in quite the same way and needs to be devolved down further into things like "Aeldari", "Tyranids", etc.
Broadly speaking the xenos factions can break down into 5 categories - Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, Aeldari, T'au. Of these only Aeldari and Tyranids have been "developed" at all:
Aeldari
-Craftworlds
-Harlequins (being folded back into Craftworlds?)
-Ynnari (being folded back into Craftworlds?)
-Drukhari
Tyranids
-Hive Fleets
-Genestealer Cults
Aeldari can be developed further by fleshing out Ynnari more and introducing Exodites, as well as (re)branching off Corsairs as a separate subfaction. Potentially you could go a step further with Crone World Aeldari, but those might fall under Chaos (iirc theres a graphic in the core rulebook which identifies the different flavors of Eldar that I mentioned here (with the exception of Crone Worlds). One of them is "censored", which hints at the existence of another flavor, which I'm guessing is the Crone Worlds.
Tyranids I'm not sure how much further you can go with the concept other than making a Tyranid aligned Zoat faction or codex supplementing various hive fleets or making vanguard organisms separate from Tyranids proper (which GSC already kinda does to a limited extent), etc. but just fleshing out GSC and Tyranids should suffice in any case.
Of the remaining factions, Orks lend themselves to expansion by way of the Grot Revolushunary Kommittee (make it happen GW), but could also potentially get cute by (re)introducing Digga(nob)s back into the mix or making Stompa Mobs or whatever a separate faction ala Imperial Knights. T'au are perhaps the easiest, as Farsight Enclaves, Kroot, Vespid, and potentially a "T'au Auxiliaries" army could all be spun off into separate subfactions. The only one that we really run into trouble with is Necrons, which I'm not sure what you can do with other than spinning off Flayer-crons into a separate subfaction, and potentially a Necron cultist faction which sees the return of Pariahs, etc.
Thats my theory for where things are eventually headed anyway.
They should add Exodites, simply because they have been mentioned so many times in relatively recent releases in a sort of nudge nudge wink wink fashion. It would round out all the major Eldar factions/ways of life. Their motivation even has been laid out in those hints. The younger Exodites were more inspired to take action by the sight of the Phoenix Lords and might want to align with Biel-Tan in reclaiming Eldar worlds to recreate a new Eldar empire.
Yeah but Necrons are too humanoid and cultured as in their aesthetic and behaviour is too human like.They also hold grudges which is a little too anthropomorphized as is their design. The whole scarab/ancient egyptian aesthetic doesn't help either.
How does a machine holding a grudge make it less of a machine? Skynet comes online and then spends the next like 50 years eradicating humanity. Also not sure the ancient Egyptian style aesthetics make them less robotic? Being a machine doesn't mean the race doesn't have an ability to create art.
They also don't really make much use of them being robots. They just happen to be robotic but it isn't essential to their identity.
Yes. The immortal machines with the vast majority of its race lacking independent though or emotion that can be rebuilt not only in repair centres but on the battlefield and immediately start fighting again don't make good use of being robots.
It's missing the technological side of the robotics. They're more like SciFi zombies/vampires (mummies even) (especially with them existing as a mortal humanoid race once) instead of an actual robot race. Their mind isn't AI in origin either.
They're fundamentally just humans with a different coat of paint and advanced technology, not a AI singularity building wierd killer robots. Idk how else to put it, but Necrons definitely don't scratch that itch, neither philosophically nor technically.
Just like most fantasy races that are just "pretty human with pointy ears", "grumpy short human with beard" and "green angry human" they don't fill the true potential of creating something alien and different. The Nids are a good indicator on how to do it right. Completely incomprehensible, mysterious in origin and as inhuman as possible. Replace hive mind with AI, biomass with raw materials and chitin, muscle and teeth with metal, wires and guns and you got it.
Yeah but Necrons are too humanoid and cultured as in their aesthetic and behaviour is too human like.They also hold grudges which is a little too anthropomorphized as is their design. The whole scarab/ancient egyptian aesthetic doesn't help either.
How does a machine holding a grudge make it less of a machine? Skynet comes online and then spends the next like 50 years eradicating humanity. Also not sure the ancient Egyptian style aesthetics make them less robotic? Being a machine doesn't mean the race doesn't have an ability to create art.
They also don't really make much use of them being robots. They just happen to be robotic but it isn't essential to their identity.
Yes. The immortal machines with the vast majority of its race lacking independent though or emotion that can be rebuilt not only in repair centres but on the battlefield and immediately start fighting again don't make good use of being robots.
Sounds like you're playing dumb. Sci-fi has a long history of emotionless, utilitarian robots, and it seems like that's what 00001 is discussing.
Skynet did not have a "grudge." It had an objective (eradicating humanity) based on a logical conclusion (humanity will eradicate Skynet). Of course, later productions in the Terminator franchise couldn't resist the temptation to give the robots/Skynet personalities and emotions, because that's an easy/brainless way to "develop" the lore.
Incidentally, we've seen the exact same thing occur in our hobby. See: the sudden decision that Tyranid creatures could have personalities/emotions, too! IIRC the first fleshed-out Necron fluff in the first Necron codex did the same thing, and it has continued. Both of those factions began as monolithic emotionless, utilitarian forces, and then were anthropomorphized in the name of "developing" the lore.
So there is absolutely a place in the 40K background for a faction of "robotics," either mechanical or biological, who completely lack personality and emotion and have a utilitarian design with none of the vestigial decoration found on Necrons. The problem is that GW would inevitably do the same thing they did to Necrons and Tyranids, and "deepen" the lore by showing how, yes, in fact, some of these robots have feelings.
AI having feelings has been part of 40K since the beginning. Part of the charm in the setting is that you have to keep your Land Raider "happy". Servitors, on the other hand, DO fill the emotionless utilitarian niche in the setting.
Platuan4th wrote: That exists in the Men of Iron. The problem is that they've been driven nearly extinct by the Imperium.
I don't think how that would rule out a faction like this. Yes, the Imperium killed off their own rogue AI. But there's a whole galaxy out there with sentient aliens, any of which could've created a general AI by accident that went rampant. It would btw only add to that hypothetical faction's lore if the original creators were totally insignificant nobodies and also long forgotten as the AI snuffed their space faring potential out early on.
The Men of Iron could always come back with some easy Handwavium. Just say so-and-so found a damaged STC somewhere that was dormant, but when turned on began making more Men of Iron.
This actually happened in Gaunts Ghosts. They find an STC that is corrupted by chaos and begins making chaos corrupted Men of Iron. They destroy it and stop it, but that doesn't mean more couldn't be out there. It just takes a couple of Men of Iron with an STC or some other schematic to replicate themselves and they can make more. Chaos corruption is just optional flavoring.
BTW, the Imperium didn't destroy the men of iron. Humanity won the war with the Men of Iron long before the Imperium rose. This happened at the end of the dark age of technology sometime in M23. The prohibition against AI isn't just an Imperial law or tradition, it is a primal fear ingrained in the psyche of all mankind, Imperial or not. A collective phobia ingrained into mankind's DNA from 17k years in the past. Everybody knows that AI is bad.
Personally, I think that non-humanoid xenos need to be explored more. A robot race where all the units are large and very non-humanoid would be rad, as would some kind of lovecraftian horror vibe faction. Techno-barbarians also have seemed like an amazing concept that hasn't been fully explored.
Gameplay wise there are definitely very few niches left to fill, but more and more I'm not really seeing that as a problem.
So many armies can play in multiple different ways (elites, vehicles, swarm, close-combat, turtle, etc) that the whole "a new faction needs a new gameplay space" is seeming less of a concern. At least in my opinion.
It's missing the technological side of the robotics. They're more like SciFi zombies/vampires (mummies even) (especially with them existing as a mortal humanoid race once) instead of an actual robot race. Their mind isn't AI in origin either.
They're fundamentally just humans with a different coat of paint and advanced technology, not a AI singularity building wierd killer robots. Idk how else to put it, but Necrons definitely don't scratch that itch, neither philosophically nor technically.
Just like most fantasy races that are just "pretty human with pointy ears", "grumpy short human with beard" and "green angry human" they don't fill the true potential of creating something alien and different. The Nids are a good indicator on how to do it right. Completely incomprehensible, mysterious in origin and as inhuman as possible. Replace hive mind with AI, biomass with raw materials and chitin, muscle and teeth with metal, wires and guns and you got it.
If you only look at the Necron nobility then yes they are similar to the undead but you'd then be ignoring the majority of the race that are nothing but mindless machines slaved to Command Protocols as well as the Canoptek Constructs that maintain the Tomb Worlds and the Tomb World itself is in fact one colossal A.I. with one even killing it's Phaeron and taking command of the Legions that awoke within.
As for the Necron mind not being A.I. in origin, do you not know that SciFi A.I. are based on a human mind? The whole point of an A.I. is that it can pass the Turing Test and be indistinguishable from a human in its behaviour. The mind is a biological computer and the point of A.I. creation is to be able to mimic that computer artificially.
The Necrons are objectively not missing any sort of technological component that renders them not machine lifeforms.
Sounds like you're playing dumb. Sci-fi has a long history of emotionless, utilitarian robots, and it seems like that's what 00001 is discussing.
Skynet did not have a "grudge." It had an objective (eradicating humanity) based on a logical conclusion (humanity will eradicate Skynet). Of course, later productions in the Terminator franchise couldn't resist the temptation to give the robots/Skynet personalities and emotions, because that's an easy/brainless way to "develop" the lore.
Incidentally, we've seen the exact same thing occur in our hobby. See: the sudden decision that Tyranid creatures could have personalities/emotions, too! IIRC the first fleshed-out Necron fluff in the first Necron codex did the same thing, and it has continued. Both of those factions began as monolithic emotionless, utilitarian forces, and then were anthropomorphized in the name of "developing" the lore.
So there is absolutely a place in the 40K background for a faction of "robotics," either mechanical or biological, who completely lack personality and emotion and have a utilitarian design with none of the vestigial decoration found on Necrons. The problem is that GW would inevitably do the same thing they did to Necrons and Tyranids, and "deepen" the lore by showing how, yes, in fact, some of these robots have feelings.
Tyranids don't have personalities or emotions beyond rudimentary animalistic instincts. Any time a Tyranid is shown to have some kind of emotion it's always a human character applying those characteristics, just like when people think Spaniels look sad all the time when that's just how they look or that their cat is giving them death stares when again, that's just how cats look.
Also, it wasn't just humanity that destroyed the Men of Iron, it was a galactic alliance.
I think another robot faction would be difficult to add and make clearly defined thematically and aesthetically, ditto another "bug" faction.
I think it would be difficult at this stage to add another unique faction. The smart thing to do is to add more xenos to the Tau, but they seem determined not to do so.
Some kind of asteroid dwelling space skaven (Hrud are not the same before one of you says it), with perhaps centaur like allies to act as shock cavalry. Maybe rather than warpstone they use geothermal tech, magma powered vehicles. Go for a bioshock 1920s sci fi space suit vibe.
Or perhaps an all flying army of xenos, levitating creatures that have a strong connection to the warp but are somehow unaffected by Chaos.
Kind of a mix of lovecraftian horror and technology, with almost exclusively non-humanoid creatures of a somewhat large size (I think most of those are around dreadnought size).
Obviously, this kind of steps on the feet of Demons and Tyranids (I'm pretty sure the models in the link are supposed to be used a proxy for those factions) but I think that you could work on the fluff enough to make them feel unique and interesting.
Oh, I would also love to see a 40k version of giants. An army of giants wielding giant guns and ridiculous 40k tech would be hella cool!
leerm02 wrote: Oh, I would also love to see a 40k version of giants. An army of giants wielding giant guns and ridiculous 40k tech would be hella cool!
Weird, I didn't realize that I typed knights when I meant giants. Totally strange how that happened!
Might it be... no, this would be TOO crazy... might it be that there is more than one way to have a big dude with guns? Bah, forget I even suggested it. What a far fetched idea!
The only physical difference between a Knight and an AoS Gargant is one is metal and one is meat. In background, sure they differ but what would a 40k version of Gargants do that Knights don't already cover?
Big unit that dishes pain and takes hits in its stride? Check. Heavy ranged firepower and extra killy CQC weapons? Check. Fancy weapons? Check. Small model count based around titanic models? Check.
If we're looking for niches to fill, big stompy army with small model count and lots of guns/combat power is filled.
GW is perfectly happy to spend time and effort retreading space marines ad nauseum, so limiting new armies due to a self imposed niche is basically just a way to prevent anything new that's not a space Marine...
loads, we do not have a faction of proper avian models (kroot are a sub faction), we do not have a dark mechanicum faction yet, we do not have proper alien ... aliens, the nids are still too humanoid.
I'd like to see an enslaver faction be introduced. I dunno how Hrud would work but they're a thing. There are many aliens in the galaxy and very few of them get shown off.
I also think tau auxiliaries should be their own shoot off faction from tau. Still tau but the auxiliaries fighting mostly alone with maybe some converted imperial guard regiments backing them up.
Eldar could also possibly have the Exodite worlds but we already have 3 and a half factions of eldar (ynarri went nowhere). Eldar of any kind also always have the hit and run vibe down we've seen so much.
I'm rather sick of seeing so many chaos and esp. imperial factions. Give xenos more love please.
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As far as playstyle niches we have: hit and run with most using psykers and hover bikes (dark eldar have the mounted transport hit and run infantry mostly), space marines of most varieties which are elite, swarms or swarms and monsters of the biological weapon variety, heavy firepower and low melee with big scary battlesuits, tanks and swarm of infantry, multiple durable robotic factions, daemons exist i guess (can't remember when i last saw em on the table), psychic armies, super elite mega ultra extra large space marines with better everything in Gold and hover units, smaller sister marines (yes i know they're not space marines) with a love of gothic architecture and fire and i'm not sure what else.
So i think we could use an Enslaver faction. That would probably be the most unique because they can take control of enemy units and do it more frequently than any other faction.
Tau auxiliaries would also be good though due to variety of different alien units and possibly human ones as the backbone. I think genestealer cults might have that covered but in the 41st millenium different xenos species all fighting together alongside humans is very unique.
Pyroalchi wrote: beast beat me to it: I would also see some room for a kind of unaligned mercenary faction. Depends a bit if GW wants to explore the Tau alien auxilliary or not. If not (or not within the T'au faction) I could well see Kroot(mercenaries), Tarellan Dog soldiers, all other kind of Xenos (that would work as mercenaries), Gue'Vesa, human Mercenaries, Hive gangs, small Ork Boy groups etc.
Those could be allied in as detachment to most if not all other factions (I could see those working for an Ork-Warboss or a very pragmatic Necron Lord. Or even a Genestealer Cult. Only Tyranids could be picky when it comes to mercenaries but lore wise the later could just be infected with genestealers.
And as a bonus for going "mono-Mercenary" I could see the option to add certain units from other Codizes that migh (from a lore standpoint) work as temporary mercenaries, but that should not be easy to ally for other codizes. I don't know, stuff like Inquisitorial Akolytes, Ogryns that got lost from their regiment (and would likely not find back on their own) etc.
I'm not completely sure what one could give them to separate them from a gamey perspective to make them interesting in between the other factions. I guess the jiggsaw look alone might be funny
Here is the way I think of it. 40K is like the Sci Fi/Everything Metaverse. Like Anime? Get Tau. Like the movie Aliens? Get Tyranids. Like GW or Tolkien? Get Orks. Like World War II? Get Imperial Guard
So GW just needs to think of some massive thing to rip off and exploit.
That's why I'd say they need to rip off the Covenant from Halo. Which could ironically end up looking very similar to the mercenary faction you reference.
One easy way would be just take some of the auxilary races out of Tau (I said most because they can keep the Kroot) and make them part of the "Covenant." Which following the Halo rip off theme would be a fanatical religious host of alien races that is united by utter hatred for humanity.
Heck they could even make up some story line about how a lot of the Tau Empire races hate humans so much that they would rather rebel against the Empire and form their own faction than live alongside humans for the greater good. Also the bad Tau killing everyone could also explain the rebellion.
Squats making a return to the tabletop would get my vote, and can definitely be made to be different from other human-like factions.
Exodites can easily be done with an upgrade sprue to many of the AoS kits, kind of like what they did to 40k kitbash Tzangagors into Thousand Sons armies with a sprue of Bolt Pistol arms and chainswords.
Expanding Kroot, and other Tau mercenary races would be cool, and a good way for the Tau to gain an ability to take allies. Once again, a simple upgrade sprue could be added to existing Imperial Guard kits to make Gue'lavesa troops.
A few years ago there was concept art of a new race, that I can't remember the name of. They were much larger than human, like Tyranid Warrior sized. They had 4 legs and 2 arms. They had technology, but it had a biological aspect to it.
Edit: Found the name of the race. Rak’Gol. They have A LOT of bionics in their troops, prefer firepower that is low strength, but with A LOT of shots, prefer solid shot ammo over lasers or energy based weapons, and like radiation based weapons/effects. Frankly, the idea of a Xenos version of Custodes is interesting. I'm seeing in my head an army of about 45 infantry in a 2000 point game, with their "riflemen" troops having S4, assault 5 weapons, and their close combat variants having the equivalent of chainswords at Strength 5 with maybe 6 attacks each for a base trooper (including bonus attacks). 3 wounds each with a movement of 7, 4+5+++ saves, and some kind of damaging aura effect on enemies.
Good idea for a thread, let me throw in some of my ideas.
I am totally on the Enslaver train, choo-choo! 1 kit of a giant floating brain monster, 1 kit of mind slaved zombies, codex of psychic nastiness and endless mind-slave hordes and you've got a party. If you thought the Lords of Chaos were bad news, wait till you see the Lords of Order!
Chaos Cults - You'd think after 20+ years of wars with insurgents the terrorist/cultist/traitor army would be a thing. Yeah I guess Genestealer cults cover it but it's just not the same.
Rogue Traders/Pirates/Imperial Navy - Every game will be talk like a pirate day! "Yarr me maties let's make them ground lubbers walk the the Space Plank straight into Davey Jones' Space Locker!" Light infantry, fliers and shuttles and skimmers. Fast, fragile hordes. And I mean the game was almost called Rogue Trader for hecks sake! Ain't time time they took the stage?
Inquisition - 3 flavors of Inquisitor (Xenos, Heredicus, Mallus, with maybe 'and the rest' thrown in too), 2 levels of loyalty ("Burn the unclean!" and "Hey this howling blood sword could be useful!") lots of freaks (OK so this squad has a dude with whips for fingers, a screaming guy with a book and a flame thrower, an anime cat girl, a three headed hermaphadite with a mouth for his stomach, and a floating skull). Potentially the most John Blanche army in history.
Space Dragons - They're dragons! From space! They breath like, lasers or radiation or whatever! Who cares! They're space dragons! Come in 3 sizes, fly, and basically wreck your world.
The Imperial Ministry of Agriculture - Years ago Jervis talked about what would a hive city window washer be like. With cyber attachments to climb the hive walls, high pressure hoses, maybe some defensive weapons to fight off mutant critters. So yeah, now figure a whole army of Imperial Farmers like that. Scythe hands, toxin sprayers, biplanes with defoliants, giant harvester mechs, it would basically be taking something real and making it totally Grim Dark.
Adeptus Arbites - Yeah, yeah I know they're just guard. Or Storm Troopers. Or Marine scouts. But come on, shotguns everywhere, crowd control flame throwers, cyber hounds, shock mauls and suppression shields, psi judges, Batmobile-style squad cars with rotary cannons. Guys in wigs and robes swinging huge hammers! Bikes! So many bikes.
I always thought we needed a sci-fi version of the Lizardmen from WHFB. The lizardmen are actually marooned aliens. Also, I believe The Slann are actually "the Old Ones" or something like that. Seems like they could be easily turned into a fully fleshed out alien race with only a little bit of work.
Oh, I forgot about the Slann. An army that is to the psychic phase what the Tau is the the shooting phase would be interesting.
Minimal armor outside their Invulnerable and +++ saves. Army centered around characters so psychically powerful they make Grey Knights and Thousand Sons look like babies.
A lot have people mentioned Tau Auxilliary already, so I'll just quickly throw my vote in with that.
Beyond that, the tough thing is that while there is still a surprising amount of lore space available for some other races, there isn't that much design space left on the tabletop itself.
My vote would be for the Hrud. They are a really interesting race that have been around in large colonies since the days of the Horus Heresy and are a small scale presence but a considerable threat when they show up. They are scavengers of tech from other races and have the innate ability to accelerate localized time both intentionally and passively. They literally age their enemies to death.
On the tabletop, this could perhaps be represented by effects that damage a units toughness profile instead of their wounds to represent them aging rapidly as well as their armour disintegrating? I think it's such a unique thing that it would be an excuse to do something really creative on the table (so long as it was balanced obviously.)
Wouldn't even need to be that big of an army, something Harlequin sized would do just fine.
Those guys seem cool. Definitely another horror/monster faction but they can have some different motivations other than eat-whole-galaxy like the nids.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
cuda1179 wrote: Oh, I forgot about the Slann. An army that is to the psychic phase what the Tau is the the shooting phase would be interesting.
Minimal armor outside their Invulnerable and +++ saves. Army centered around characters so psychically powerful they make Grey Knights and Thousand Sons look like babies.
Ya for sure. Big, dangerous psychic HQs and then they can do whatever they want with all the other troops. Dan Abnett recently introduced a lizard like race call the Loxatl in his books which have these flechette cannons. Most races have a weapon type or style that's their thing. Like how DE have splinter weapons. Perhaps the Slann/Lizardmen/Loxatl could have flechette weapons be their thing. Probably a lot of rending weapons.
The Imperial Ministry of Agriculture - Years ago Jervis talked about what would a hive city window washer be like. With cyber attachments to climb the hive walls, high pressure hoses, maybe some defensive weapons to fight off mutant critters. So yeah, now figure a whole army of Imperial Farmers like that. Scythe hands, toxin sprayers, biplanes with defoliants, giant harvester mechs, it would basically be taking something real and making it totally Grim Dark.
[...]
That... is.... AWESOME.
Don't know if I would build it myself, but I would love to see it.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Good idea for a thread, let me throw in some of my ideas.
Chaos Cults - You'd think after 20+ years of wars with insurgents the terrorist/cultist/traitor army would be a thing. Yeah I guess Genestealer cults cover it but it's just not the same.
Rogue Traders/Pirates/Imperial Navy - Every game will be talk like a pirate day! "Yarr me maties let's make them ground lubbers walk the the Space Plank straight into Davey Jones' Space Locker!" Light infantry, fliers and shuttles and skimmers. Fast, fragile hordes. And I mean the game was almost called Rogue Trader for hecks sake! Ain't time time they took the stage?
Chaos cults - literally the servants of the abyss and a handful of extra units from the chaos marine books (defiler as stalk tanks?)
You wouldn't even need a new model that doesn't exist.
And rogue traders really annoys me because the ONLY reason they're not an army is that they chose to make voidsmen-at-arms elites not troops, which basically makes it impossible to field a cartographica-centric army.
And rogue traders really annoys me because the ONLY reason they're not an army is that they chose to make voidsmen-at-arms elites not troops, which basically makes it impossible to field a cartographica-centric army.
Or they wanted it to be an elite, small-ish army rather than yet another hat on a Guard equivalent army.
Seeing the support GW has given Xenos trough the years, i'd rather they NOT create a new one, and makes support for them even more problematic.
But design wise, i could see :
- a sort of anti-tyrannid biological race, focused on growing stuff instead of eating it, so naturally opposed to Chaos as well, but also the Imperium and their genocidal tendancies, and probably having affinities to the Tau and the Eldar. Instead of insects, they would be more mammal-based.
- an Anti-Chaos, extra-dimensionnal, non-Warp based, "Angelic" faction to counterbalance the Chaos aesthetic, altho this spot is partially taken by the sisters and models like Celestine.
All i'm sure about is, not more imperium please !
Regarding exodite, i could see them in the Tau army, and well, GW' latest "the Exodite" teaser all but implies that may be the case.
My vote goes for squats, I'd definitely add some steam-punk, dwarfs in my imperial forces. They could also share some sort of mining theme and battle against Genestealer cults.
I'd also like some renegades and heretics in chaos forces, but there's been already a rumour that something similar might be coming soon.
Tawnis wrote: A lot have people mentioned Tau Auxilliary already, so I'll just quickly throw my vote in with that.
Beyond that, the tough thing is that while there is still a surprising amount of lore space available for some other races, there isn't that much design space left on the tabletop itself.
My vote would be for the Hrud. They are a really interesting race that have been around in large colonies since the days of the Horus Heresy and are a small scale presence but a considerable threat when they show up. They are scavengers of tech from other races and have the innate ability to accelerate localized time both intentionally and passively. They literally age their enemies to death.
On the tabletop, this could perhaps be represented by effects that damage a units toughness profile instead of their wounds to represent them aging rapidly as well as their armour disintegrating? I think it's such a unique thing that it would be an excuse to do something really creative on the table (so long as it was balanced obviously.)
Wouldn't even need to be that big of an army, something Harlequin sized would do just fine.
Which could be addressed by eliminating a faction (but still finding a way for folks to keep using the models). Gosh, wouldn't it be completely insane if somehow the Hive Mind died but the individual tyranid species lived on and some even became self aware? Then they could combine with other hostile xenos into a true pan xenos terror. (Ok you all know where my vote was before, just kicking around ideas for how to free things up game mechanic wise).
I doubt there is the room/appetite for another faction, especially when game mechanic wise they would either be repeating something, or it would be a huge skew to the game (full flying faction for example).
Where there is room is warhammer quest, kill team, rpg's etc where small number but extremely deadly xenos could be used such as Enslavers (I know there is an argument that they are not xenos, but a warp entity but you get the idea).
However, one faction(s) I would like to return is the inquisition with the chambers militants and the ability to allie them into factions, with inquisition storm troopers etc of the ordo xenos, hereticus and malleous. Mainly because for me, that is peak Blanchitsu 40k, with plenty of interesting modelling options.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, Nids were before Necrons.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I doubt there is the room/appetite for another faction, especially when game mechanic wise they would either be repeating something, or it would be a huge skew to the game (full flying faction for example).
Where there is room is warhammer quest, kill team, rpg's etc where small number but extremely deadly xenos could be used such as Enslavers (I know there is an argument that they are not xenos, but a warp entity but you get the idea).
However, one faction(s) I would like to return is the inquisition with the chambers militants and the ability to allie them into factions, with inquisition storm troopers etc of the ordo xenos, hereticus and malleous. Mainly because for me, that is peak Blanchitsu 40k, with plenty of interesting modelling options.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, Nids were before Necrons.
Whats the Point of Inquisition when Chaos cults don't exist?
Only one Ordo deals with Heretics, the aptly named Ordo Hereticus. The Malleus deals with Daemons/Chaos related shenanigans (like if a Cult starts summoning Daemons) and the Xenos deals with, well, Xenos. There are also hundreds of Minor Ordos that deal with everything from Bureaucrat Wars to time travel violations. Honestly, each major type of Inquisitor should have been included in their Chamber Militant book alongside a 0-1 choice of their Warband.
endlesswaltz123 wrote: I doubt there is the room/appetite for another faction, especially when game mechanic wise they would either be repeating something, or it would be a huge skew to the game (full flying faction for example).
Where there is room is warhammer quest, kill team, rpg's etc where small number but extremely deadly xenos could be used such as Enslavers (I know there is an argument that they are not xenos, but a warp entity but you get the idea).
However, one faction(s) I would like to return is the inquisition with the chambers militants and the ability to allie them into factions, with inquisition storm troopers etc of the ordo xenos, hereticus and malleous. Mainly because for me, that is peak Blanchitsu 40k, with plenty of interesting modelling options.
Automatically Appended Next Post: BTW, Nids were before Necrons.
Whats the Point of Inquisition when Chaos cults don't exist?
Hopefully they will be if LATD are re-introduced in some form as some rumours suggest.
Gert wrote: Only one Ordo deals with Heretics, the aptly named Ordo Hereticus. The Malleus deals with Daemons/Chaos related shenanigans (like if a Cult starts summoning Daemons) and the Xenos deals with, well, Xenos. There are also hundreds of Minor Ordos that deal with everything from Bureaucrat Wars to time travel violations. Honestly, each major type of Inquisitor should have been included in their Chamber Militant book alongside a 0-1 choice of their Warband.
I wonder if the best solution would be to include an =I= unit in the GK, SoB and DW books as an HQ option.
Probably not since you'd lose all the crazy special character Inquisitors like Mr Chair and Not Khalessi.
Nah, I want an =I= book.
HQ-Inquisitors
Elite-Warbands, assassins, psykers, demon hosts
Troops-Strom Troopers, IG vet squads, and appropriate troop unit from GK, SoB or DW (puritans only)
Fast-Various fliers, Chibi Hawk, Chibi Chibi Hawk, Flying =I= thing
Heavy-Land Raiders
Transport-Rhino, Razorback, Chimera
There. Done.
Multipart Inquisitor and warband kit, IG vet kit and you've got an army. Ah throw in a Storm Trooper/Arbites kit too with options for Salet helms, shot guns and stick and board.
I mean the Named Characters are all part of specific Ordos so they could easily just be included in the Codex of their Chamber Militant and then just include a generic choice in the Guard Codex. I'm just not a fan of tiny Codexes with naff all units/copies from other books and honestly that's what a good chunk of an Inquisition book would be.
That... is.... AWESOME. Don't know if I would build it myself, but I would love to see it.
Thanks!
And the point is one of the great bits about the 40k universe is that, with a little work, anything can be made grimdark and awesome. A while back we had a thread where you had to reimagine mundane items as 40k grimdark ones. A cell phone where you have to listen to 1 minute of hymns before making a call and where someone can and will break in to tell you to stop wasting the Emperor's bandwidth on unimportant items.
It would be cool to see GW stretch their wings a bit and see if they can't make something marketable out of 40k window washers or codex farming equipment. I mean they managed to sell us on Space Marine Chaplains and Librarians right?
And rogue traders really annoys me because the ONLY reason they're not an army is that they chose to make voidsmen-at-arms elites not troops, which basically makes it impossible to field a cartographica-centric army.
GW got Rogue Traders set up better than the Inquisition: voidsmen can be attached to detachments along with their Rogue Trader bosses- unlike Inquisition forces. Rogue Traders also got Crusade content.
I'm not sure about the actual 'niche' but I'd trade my entire Sisters of Battle collection for a Hrud/Space Skaven army. Maybe be could be an army that focuses on poison gas, booby traps, underground movement vehicles, captured 'warpstone' powered monsters, etc. Also pretty good psykers with a 40K equivalent of Grey Seers and hybrid pskyer/enginseer kind of units.
Squats of course would be fun
Grot Rebels could be a fun subfaction of Orks
And maybe a subfaction of Dark Eldar focused around the Sslyth.
If GW considers 'we don't have marines in light green and yellow yet' enough of a niche to justify a whole new army, then there is a huge opportunity for xenos armies to get new forces.
Are you talking about the Emperor's Spears Chapter or are you talking about Custodes/SoS? Because one of those is a WD/Lt Ed book release only subfaction and Custodes/SoS have been in the background for longer than many Xenos armies. The only Imperial army so far this Edition that has got more releases than a Xenos army has been Space Marines, which doesn't count because Space Marines are basically their own entire range. The assertation that Xenos never get anything new only works if you flat out ignore updated models or diversified product ranges and things like GSC which were entirely new (except the actual Genestealers).
Gert wrote: You mean like the massive additions for Necrons, Orks, Craftworlds and GSC? Or T'au which have a very modern up to date range?
... the only recent addition to cwe is the double ranger bike. Oh, and they've made plastic, more detailed versions of a handful of units that were nearing or exceeding 20 years of age I guess. That's a single addition, a long-overdue refreshing of kits and a lot of neglect in my book, but you do you.
Awesome idea for a thread. I've got a couple of ideas knocking around, some fluff related, others mechanics related.
- A null based army, xeno or otherwise. I think the concept can be more inventive than the sisters of silence. Like really dial up the whole "difficult to be seen and makes everyone uncomfortable" vibe, not just the anti-psyker stuff. I always thought that one of the lost Primarchs sound have been a blank, with his legion being like 10% blanks. He was culled as he could see through Big E's glamour and saw him for what he really was; just another would be tyrant. And he could have controlled his null ability, like contracting it be almost unnoticeable or expanding it out to battlefield size. The null marines would have organised into jump or teleporting squads that try to disrupt the enemy army landing in the centre of their formation. Anyway, I'm rambling. So they could have mechanics like forcing nearby enemy units to only target/charge the closest unit, remove aura abilities, etc.
- An xeno coalition race, like the covenant in Halo. So lots of different races all banded together for whatever reason. Could be a noble-bright space democracy or some sort of leader race and cast based system (too similar to Tau then though?). With each race only needing 1-3 units it would give the designers lots of room to come up with all sorts of aliens. Can also add in some existing races like kroot.
- An xeno race that can either reincarnate or has some sort of ability to commune with their ancestors. So family ties etc is very important to them. First contact with the IoM predictably had some marines doing a 'shoot first' action that has permanently offended them so they have declared a war of extinction against all humans. As they can reincarnate , their elites/leader units are simply the ones with the most experience. So the low level mooks are only on their first life, while the general is on their 200th.
- A race made of controller units and drone units. The fluff for this is unimportant, could be robots or insects or maybe fit the enslavers? So the majority of your army is made up of drone units, who on their own are pretty terrible. But each turn, each controller unit can select one drone unit to 'assume direct control' which massively buffs them and unlocks different abilities/special rules. A drone unit under direct control is quite OP for its points. But you'll only ever have 25% of your army buffed like that, choosing different units each turn. So the challenge is knowing who to buff and when. I realise this may not work so well in an IGYG type game as there is no reason for your opponent to not just wipe out the unbuffed drones units on their turn, but its the seed of an idea I believe.
EDIT - The drone units defence/save could be unaffected by 'direct control', and these can be fairly typical for the points cost of the unit. Instead, it only buffs their attacking powers which are otherwise really weak. So this gets away from your opponent wiping your unbuffed units each turn.
Fergie0044 wrote: Awesome idea for a thread. I've got a couple of ideas knocking around, some fluff related, others mechanics related.
- A null based army, xeno or otherwise. I think the concept can be more inventive than the sisters of silence. Like really dial up the whole "difficult to be seen and makes everyone uncomfortable" vibe, not just the anti-psyker stuff. I always thought that one of the lost Primarchs sound have been a blank, with his legion being like 10% blanks. He was culled as he could see through Big E's glamour and saw him for what he really was; just another would be tyrant. And he could have controlled his null ability, like contracting it be almost unnoticeable or expanding it out to battlefield size. The null marines would have organised into jump or teleporting squads that try to disrupt the enemy army landing in the centre of their formation. Anyway, I'm rambling. So they could have mechanics like forcing nearby enemy units to only target/charge the closest unit, remove aura abilities, etc.
- An xeno coalition race, like the covenant in Halo. So lots of different races all banded together for whatever reason. Could be a noble-bright space democracy or some sort of leader race and cast based system (too similar to Tau then though?). With each race only needing 1-3 units it would give the designers lots of room to come up with all sorts of aliens. Can also add in some existing races like kroot.
- An xeno race that can either reincarnate or has some sort of ability to commune with their ancestors. So family ties etc is very important to them. First contact with the IoM predictably had some marines doing a 'shoot first' action that has permanently offended them so they have declared a war of extinction against all humans. As they can reincarnate , their elites/leader units are simply the ones with the most experience. So the low level mooks are only on their first life, while the general is on their 200th.
- A race made of controller units and drone units. The fluff for this is unimportant, could be robots or insects or maybe fit the enslavers? So the majority of your army is made up of drone units, who on their own are pretty terrible. But each turn, each controller unit can select one drone unit to 'assume direct control' which massively buffs them and unlocks different abilities/special rules. A drone unit under direct control is quite OP for its points. But you'll only ever have 25% of your army buffed like that, choosing different units each turn. So the challenge is knowing who to buff and when. I realise this may not work so well in an IGYG type game as there is no reason for your opponent to not just wipe out the unbuffed drones units on their turn, but its the seed of an idea I believe.
Null idea sounds cool, but feels like it would be really hard to balance vs something like Thousand Sons or Grey Knights.
They should just expand on Tau auxiliaries, no reason to make this a whole other races thing as well.
Sounds cool lore wise, but how would that play distinctly on the tabletop?
I've heard this one before and always been a fan. Feels like it would be a good fit for the Men of Iron if they ever came back.
Gert wrote: You mean like the massive additions for Necrons, Orks, Craftworlds and GSC? Or T'au which have a very modern up to date range?
Tau need auxiliaries and the other species they have expanded to be fluff-accurate.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Gert wrote: Even when you get a bunch of updates to old kits that people have been clamoring for years to get updated, you Eldar players still find ways to moan and whine about it.
Get off your gak. Astartes getting an order of magnitude more support then some other factions is worth complaining about.
Fergie0044 wrote: Awesome idea for a thread. I've got a couple of ideas knocking around, some fluff related, others mechanics related.
- A null based army, xeno or otherwise. I think the concept can be more inventive than the sisters of silence. Like really dial up the whole "difficult to be seen and makes everyone uncomfortable" vibe, not just the anti-psyker stuff. I always thought that one of the lost Primarchs sound have been a blank, with his legion being like 10% blanks. He was culled as he could see through Big E's glamour and saw him for what he really was; just another would be tyrant. And he could have controlled his null ability, like contracting it be almost unnoticeable or expanding it out to battlefield size. The null marines would have organised into jump or teleporting squads that try to disrupt the enemy army landing in the centre of their formation. Anyway, I'm rambling. So they could have mechanics like forcing nearby enemy units to only target/charge the closest unit, remove aura abilities, etc.
Necron Pariahs.
- An xeno coalition race, like the covenant in Halo. So lots of different races all banded together for whatever reason. Could be a noble-bright space democracy or some sort of leader race and cast based system (too similar to Tau then though?). With each race only needing 1-3 units it would give the designers lots of room to come up with all sorts of aliens. Can also add in some existing races like kroot.
You literally just described the Tau. This is exactly what the Tau are.
- An xeno race that can either reincarnate or has some sort of ability to commune with their ancestors. So family ties etc is very important to them. First contact with the IoM predictably had some marines doing a 'shoot first' action that has permanently offended them so they have declared a war of extinction against all humans. As they can reincarnate , their elites/leader units are simply the ones with the most experience. So the low level mooks are only on their first life, while the general is on their 200th.
Oh boy this can go one of two ways:
-Craftworld. They commune with their ancestors via the Infinity Circuit. They reincarnate via sticking soulstones into wraith bodies. You can maybe make this interesting and do Exodites instead and then play up these aspects.
-Necrons. Don't really commune with their ancestors so much as they have interactive recordings of them/they upload their brains/souls into computer things. But they definitely reincarnate, and every time they do they kinda lose a bit of themselves and become a bit more of an automaton based on the recent novels.
- A race made of controller units and drone units. The fluff for this is unimportant, could be robots or insects or maybe fit the enslavers? So the majority of your army is made up of drone units, who on their own are pretty terrible. But each turn, each controller unit can select one drone unit to 'assume direct control' which massively buffs them and unlocks different abilities/special rules. A drone unit under direct control is quite OP for its points. But you'll only ever have 25% of your army buffed like that, choosing different units each turn. So the challenge is knowing who to buff and when. I realise this may not work so well in an IGYG type game as there is no reason for your opponent to not just wipe out the unbuffed drones units on their turn, but its the seed of an idea I believe.
EDIT - The drone units defence/save could be unaffected by 'direct control', and these can be fairly typical for the points cost of the unit. Instead, it only buffs their attacking powers which are otherwise really weak. So this gets away from your opponent wiping your unbuffed units each turn.
I mean pretty much Tau, but also Tyranids - mechanically you just described Synapse Creatures (I.E. "controllers") vs the rest of the army.
The Hrud feel like the existing race that would be scalable up to something more interesting and could have some unique mechanics. Their time/entropy manipulation could lead to something different, though I feel like you end up with something that's not easy for new players to use effectively like Genestealer Cults.
The Phazer wrote: The Hrud feel like the existing race that would be scalable up to something more interesting and could have some unique mechanics. Their time/entropy manipulation could lead to something different, though I feel like you end up with something that's not easy for new players to use effectively like Genestealer Cults.
I remember many years ago there were a lot of rumours going around about the Hrud but in the form of a 'Space Skaven' type faction. I know eventually there was the Xenobiology book release that painted the Hrud as a kind of swamp thing creature, but some years before that.
I wonder if this was any substance to this rumour and there were any concept drawings or anything like that?
The Mantic Veer-myn faction showed it could have looked pretty good, and actually many of the old Skaven designs had a lot of mechanical contraptions - so conceptually it wouldn't have been a massive leap, I always thought.
GW needs to look inward, refreshing model ranges, and updating their extremely old models with modern sculpts. There is real money to be made here. Admittedly, they're doing this now, but very slowly, and alongside yet even more new models with new kits.
GW needs to publish the modern rules to play their current armies, and adequately support these rules with regular FAQ, and additional mission content to keep the game fresh.
GW has not shown itself to be capable of supporting the current width and scope of the game in a competent manner.
We have armies in every shape and size, and the better argument in my mind, would be rolling some of the extremely niche units and rosters into more mainline rosters to bring the current birds nest of tiny niche factions back into the fold.
We do *not* need, or have room for another faction in 40k at this point.
The xenoes that come to mind as being major players are the Hrud and the Khrave.
The Hrud are clearly very widespread, and full-scale Hrud migrations are frequently described in the lore as being massive invasions that can destroy entire Space Marine chapters and the like. They could go down the space-skaven vibe, but more recent fluff has a kind of psychic shroud appearance overlaying a very flexible alien, which doesn't lend itself well to models. Could be retconned though.
The Khrave are popping up more and more in fluff snippets, have been a threat since the Great Crusade, and are a challenge for even Marines to deal with. They are not confined to a single corner of the galaxy like Tau, and appear to be quite widespread. Aside from being big and nasty, not a lot is known about them, which allows a lot of creative freedom.
Obviously more Tau auxiliaries is a low hanging fruit, particularly the Demiurg (xenos space dwarves vibe).
Another interesting option is the Rangdan. These were a cataclysmic xenos force that attacked the Imperium several times during the Great Crusade in the Rangdan Xenocides. They even nearly crippled the entire First Legion, and are the main reason the Dark Angels lost their place as the largest, most powerful legion. Their origins are not known, and their attack was sudden an unexpected. This would make a great new threat. They are in some way linked to the Slaught, who have been infiltrating the fringes of the Imperium. This would be a pretty interesting enemy to re-emerge.
Yeah but Necrons are too humanoid and cultured as in their aesthetic and behaviour is too human like.They also hold grudges which is a little too anthropomorphized as is their design. The whole scarab/ancient egyptian aesthetic doesn't help either.
How does a machine holding a grudge make it less of a machine? Skynet comes online and then spends the next like 50 years eradicating humanity. Also not sure the ancient Egyptian style aesthetics make them less robotic? Being a machine doesn't mean the race doesn't have an ability to create art.
They also don't really make much use of them being robots. They just happen to be robotic but it isn't essential to their identity.
Yes. The immortal machines with the vast majority of its race lacking independent though or emotion that can be rebuilt not only in repair centres but on the battlefield and immediately start fighting again don't make good use of being robots.
How does them being robots make them anymore robot?
You missed the point. Necrons are so human they barely even count as machines. Oldcrons were fine They were distinct. Crons today might aswell be made of flesh. Even something like the flayer virus somehow heavily anthropomorphized them. Its described a "curse" now. A "Curse."
Automatically Appended Next Post: Honestly Tau auxiliaries sounds super boring to me. I dont know why.
Hrud also bore me. I think I dont like their time field effect thing.
Rak Gol are not new and they are awesome but I think they're best left as terrifying, mysterious aliens.
We do need Dark Mechanicus already though.
We also need iconic space marine updates like Terminators, tactical marines and Predators too. ESPECIALLY Terminators. All with the same statline as primaris marines as it makes absolutely no sense to still have classic marines anymore. Just drop the "primaris" name and were gucci
How does them being robots make them anymore robot?
You missed the point. Necrons are so human they barely even count as machines. Oldcrons were fine They were distinct. Crons today might aswell be made of flesh. Even something like the flayer virus somehow heavily anthropomorphized them. Its described a "curse" now. A "Curse."
Except the only things that are remotely sentient are the upper echelons of former Necrontyr society and even then they aren't protected. People keep parroting this notion that the Necrons are exactly the same as they were when they were flesh and blood but just utterly ignore anything that isn't a former Necrontyr noble. The elite units in the Necron roster don't choose to be what they are or get promoted like other sentient species. They're constructed and programmed just like every other Necron in existence. A Lychguard doesn't get promoted to Lord because it survives where the rest of its unit dies, it just gets reassigned to another Lychguard unit. Any form of emotion the Necrons have is coded into their memory engrams which were created by the C'tan. The entire race can be enslaved at any point if the original Command Codes are recreated, which is why the Necron nobility tries its hardest to stop C'tan from merging shards. The nobility "freed" their race but everything was still ultimately enslaved to them, never to grow, change or advance.
As for the Flayer Virus being a curse, sentient machines can still be poetic. That and according to legend the Flayer C'tan literally cursed them when it was destroyed, like "You haven't seen the last of me!!!!!" *big explosion*.
One question if something totally new is introduced is the question why we haven't heard from them yet.
The Necrons get around this by 'awakening'. The Tau get around this by being the new kids on the block.
If a new race is a galaxy-wide threat then why haven't they been mentioned yet?
So how about this (and it would work for the Hurd), they're from the future. They're fleeing a future so catastrophic that the days of Warhammer 40,000 seem a calm oasis before the true storm began.
@Haighus - I think with the Hrud, isn't it only the Xenobiology book that is actually a reference of what they are like? I'm not sure if they featured in any BL material.
If so that would be a pretty easy retcon (99% of people into 40k probably don't even know of that book)
Kid_Kyoto wrote: One question if something totally new is introduced is the question why we haven't heard from them yet.
The Necrons get around this by 'awakening'. The Tau get around this by being the new kids on the block.
If a new race is a galaxy-wide threat then why haven't they been mentioned yet?
So how about this (and it would work for the Hurd), they're from the future. They're fleeing a future so catastrophic that the days of Warhammer 40,000 seem a calm oasis before the true storm began.
Grimdark!
Haha I like it.. although remember now the timeline has moved forward. There are new super-marines, new technologies, Primarchs back from the dead - all bets are off the table!
Kid_Kyoto wrote: One question if something totally new is introduced is the question why we haven't heard from them yet.
The Necrons get around this by 'awakening'. The Tau get around this by being the new kids on the block.
If a new race is a galaxy-wide threat then why haven't they been mentioned yet?
So how about this (and it would work for the Hurd), they're from the future. They're fleeing a future so catastrophic that the days of Warhammer 40,000 seem a calm oasis before the true storm began.
Grimdark!
That would definitly be a pretty cool thing lore wise.
Years ago (2008ish?) we had a thread on Dakka for what would the game Warhammer 50k be like.
So stealing from that...
Warhammer 42k -
(General) Well between the nids and Chaos we're pretty boned.
(Inquisitor takes a hit of the bong) Hey, what if like we got the Nids to eat the Eye of Terror!
(Passing Eldar dude) Are you people insane!?
Warhammer 45k
(Admiral) Well they they go, the Hive Fleet is vanishing into the Eye of Terror.
(Inquisitor) I see nothing that can possibly go wrong with this.
(Eldar dude) I'll just be over here working on the time portholes.
Warhammer 46k
(Ad Mech Dude) Huh, unholy, insane abominations of daemon and nid seem to be emerging from the Eye of Terror and destroying all in their path.
(Inquisitor) Who could have foreseen this!
(Eldar Dude repeatedly beats head against wall)
Warhammer 40k (Tau-Eldar nano warithbone hybrid things emerge from time porthole) We have come to warn you about-
(Imperium) Fire at will!
To tie into the Rak'Gol as well, not just more xenos, but Chaos xenos (of which the Rak'Gol are suspected to be, though no 100% confirmation is given). Give us some real weird stuff, like a race of molluscs or cephalopods. What would the latter pile high in the name of Khorne for example? These are the oddball questions that 40k of the past would throw at you for "your guys" and make you wonder about these truly alien cultures. The race like the Saruthi in the first Eisenhorn book are a good example of some ultra weird Chaos xenos and just how they perceive time.
Barkes wrote: I don't really think there is any reason to add new factions, let alone the time it would take to flesh out every aspect of it.
True. Warehouse space is limited anyway.
Necrons started out with like, 3 units. Knights with 1 or 2. It can be done.
I'm telling you Enslavers, floating brain things (1 kit), and psy zombies (1 kit). 2 kits and you have an army.
The psy zombies would be human, but include some ork/tau/whatever heads.
If it works, then expand with smaller brains and bigger brains, and psyker pawns, and elemental like constructs. But for starters, floating brains and their psy zombie hoards.
Enslavers? What do they look like? Like Beholders from D&D?
I read people want true robots. Good idea. First we squat the Necrons in order to get rid of the abysmal take on Tomb Kings in space. But worry not, people will still be able to use those models because their rules will be found in the "Legends" section. Sounds familiar, doesn´t it?
After the Newcrons are gone artists may run wild with concepts for robot frames which are NOT humanoid or resemble any kind of animal species from Earth.
Or how about a proper Cyborg race? I am thinking of a horrible amalgam of man and machine out of the sick mind of Giger. That sort of thing. It will cause nightmares for Little Timmy. Forget all about the bland Imperial servitor models or the Mechanicus guys who wear cloaks. Just naked skin and metal. Oh, and one last thing. When you are doing these new cyber-zombies don´t model them with stupid grinning faces like they botched the new version of the plague zombies. Shudder!
To tie into the Rak'Gol as well, not just more xenos, but Chaos xenos (of which the Rak'Gol are suspected to be, though no 100% confirmation is given). Give us some real weird stuff, like a race of molluscs or cephalopods. What would the latter pile high in the name of Khorne for example? These are the oddball questions that 40k of the past would throw at you for "your guys" and make you wonder about these truly alien cultures. The race like the Saruthi in the first Eisenhorn book are a good example of some ultra weird Chaos xenos and just how they perceive time.
Dude! I just had to jump on here and comment on those amazing conversions you did! I'm sure that the future race of space-giants will absolutely thank you for your service :-)
Strg Alt wrote: Enslavers? What do they look like? Like Beholders from D&D?
They actually show in up in Rogue Trader as a floating Lovecratian horror.
And then again in the 3rd edition rulebook.
Personally, I rather imagine them looking like Grells, the floating brains in D&D, created by none other than GW founder Sir Ian Livingstone.
Maybe crossed with Starro the Conqueror from DC comics, dropping some face-hugger mind slugs to control their psy zombies. That gives the psy zombies a neat visual and clearly marking them.
So Enslavers have various psy attacks, and can drop lil-slaveys on people's heads to create new zombies, while the zombie hoards stomp around zapping people with their own psy attacks or just ripping them up with their psy-fuel strength. Done. Army in 2 boxes.
A bit off-topic, but: There's something super captivating and unnerving about having the most basic necron warrior listed as "unknown" in the core rulebook.
It would be great if they retained that sense of menace today, but alas, the ultramarines must have punched one too many c'tan.
A bit off-topic, but: There's something super captivating and unnerving about having the most basic necron warrior listed as "unknown" in the core rulebook.
It would be great if they retained that sense of menace today, but alas, the ultramarines must have punched one too many c'tan.
There's a lot to be said about less polished art, 3rd edition had some great examples that made it feel like not even the Imperium knows what's going on.
There was also a faded pic of old style marine armor with a caption like "M32 Engraving of historic Space Marine".
Strg Alt wrote: When you are doing these new cyber-zombies don´t model them with stupid grinning faces like they botched the new version of the plague zombies. Shudder!
The Poxwalkers aren't botched - the grins are a side-effect of the specific disease they're infected with.
Strg Alt wrote: When you are doing these new cyber-zombies don´t model them with stupid grinning faces like they botched the new version of the plague zombies. Shudder!
The Poxwalkers aren't botched - the grins are a side-effect of the specific disease they're infected with.
That´s a half-assed reason people pulled out of their butts to make the models suitable for Little Timmy. Up to now I have never seen a Romero-Zombie wear a stupid grin on his face.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Hmm, those Enslavers need a reimagining. They resemble too much Beholders from D&D.
Strg Alt wrote: That´s a half-assed reason people pulled out of their butts to make the models suitable for Little Timmy. Up to now I have never seen a Romero-Zombie wear a stupid grin on his face.
Yeah because there's nothing horrifying about your former comrades rising from the dead with a massive grin plastered over their ruined faces. Nope, not at all. I'm sure it also has absolutely nothing to with the fact that Nurglites are portrayed as jolly and happy consistently throughout their background.
Nurgle and humor have been paired from the beginning. Part of the horror of Nurgle isn't just the pox and mutations, it's the insanity the makes you like it. Nurgle is after all the daemon lord of hope as well as disease.
So yeah happy smiley zombies and Lord Fester or whatever his name is, is part of the whole deal.
Eldar exodites. They already have a notable presence in the lore, and spaces elves riding dinosaurs is even more metal than space robots (which are already covered by Necrons/admech robots).
Gert wrote: The robot army niche is filled by the Necrons. Only those within the courts of the Necron nobility have any semblance of the people they were prior to the Bio-transference.
All the Canoptek constructs and anything lower than a Lychguard/Praetorian are mindless machines slaved to the will of an Overlord and even then an Overlord can call on Command Protocols at any point to turn anything under them into a puppet of their will.
Really is that how the 9th edition of everyone's fav murder bots are set up?
Don't have any of the 9th edition codexs so I'm not all that up to date on the current factions of WH40k.
flamingkillamajig wrote: different xenos species all fighting together alongside humans is very unique.
Well the Elder have *allied* with humanity before on very rare occasions if I remember rightly but those alliances where to the Elder benefit and maybe to humanity detriment and I'm not sure if the Tau and humanity allied to fight a greater menace but given the possibility of a galactic extinction event/menace I'm sure the humans, Elder, Tau and maybe the Orks would work together to save themselves from such a threat/menace.
To tie into the Rak'Gol as well, not just more xenos, but Chaos xenos (of which the Rak'Gol are suspected to be, though no 100% confirmation is given). Give us some real weird stuff, like a race of molluscs or cephalopods. What would the latter pile high in the name of Khorne for example? These are the oddball questions that 40k of the past would throw at you for "your guys" and make you wonder about these truly alien cultures. The race like the Saruthi in the first Eisenhorn book are a good example of some ultra weird Chaos xenos and just how they perceive time.
Dude! I just had to jump on here and comment on those amazing conversions you did! I'm sure that the future race of space-giants will absolutely thank you for your service :-)
Cheers! Got some Umbra as well, made from several AOS endless spells.
@KK- You missed a couple more recent Enslaver pics.
There's this one, from the 3rd ed Creature Feature (the UK version, we never got the make your own beasties article like the US did).
This one, which is from (I believe) one of the Dark Heresy books. I based my conversion on both of those artworks. The colour scheme being inspired by that one.
Finally there's this one from that Liber Xenologis book that came out last(?) year.
@KK- You missed a couple more recent Enslaver pics.
There's this one, from the 3rd ed Creature Feature (the UK version, we never got the make your own beasties article like the US did).
This one, which is from (I believe) one of the Dark Heresy books. I based my conversion on both of those artworks. The colour scheme being inspired by that one.
Finally there's this one from that Liber Xenologis book that came out last(?) year.
Those sort of reminds me of the meatloaf I tried to make once.
Then let us earnestly pray to the RDGs that it will happen because I would love to see these brain munching warp spawned horrors come back to make everyone *happy*
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Nurgle and humor have been paired from the beginning. Part of the horror of Nurgle isn't just the pox and mutations, it's the insanity the makes you like it. Nurgle is after all the daemon lord of hope as well as disease.
So yeah happy smiley zombies and Lord Fester or whatever his name is, is part of the whole deal.
Nope, they haven´t. Retcon came along at some time in history and decreed that stupid grin on those models. I still own old Nurgling models from 3rd which don´t smile and my plague zombies are represented by non-GW minis. Wacky Nurgle models are as awful as Mutilators.
iGuy91 wrote: Gonna be that guy here. To each their own but...
GW needs to look inward, refreshing model ranges, and updating their extremely old models with modern sculpts. There is real money to be made here. Admittedly, they're doing this now, but very slowly, and alongside yet even more new models with new kits.
GW needs to publish the modern rules to play their current armies, and adequately support these rules with regular FAQ, and additional mission content to keep the game fresh.
GW has not shown itself to be capable of supporting the current width and scope of the game in a competent manner.
We have armies in every shape and size, and the better argument in my mind, would be rolling some of the extremely niche units and rosters into more mainline rosters to bring the current birds nest of tiny niche factions back into the fold.
We do *not* need, or have room for another faction in 40k at this point.
this is the boring answer that i 100% agree with. (i would love for more cyber-body horror a la arco-flagellants and servitor type units to be added to already established lines)
but in a fantasy where we could have more factions, i would love to see dark mech. i would also love space skaven, maybe they can have some of those tarellian dog-soldiers too. a space skaven/gnollish army.
i would love for a coalition of alien races banding together out of desperation just for a chance of survival to exist. i would be okay if tau aux expanded and filled this role, but really i would like a dogs of war/mercenary force - a bunch of grizzled and ideologically opposed races having to, again, come together out of necessity for survival not because they want to or like each other. through this necessary combination of arms they sort of lose their own identity/culture.
some proper vampire representation.
i also think that new factions don't have to actually be galaxy spanning. they could have a rather small, modest holding out in the styx. ignored by the major players for any number of reason, from perceived as a non-threat (we'll take care of them later) to not perceived at all (the galaxy is a big place).
The xenos from the regicide or w.e they were called were the coolest thing to come out of 40k. Grim dark, Mechanical, cyborg bugs. Like if you mixed the tyranids and dark mechanicum.
Nope, they haven´t. Retcon came along at some time in history and decreed that stupid grin on those models. I still own old Nurgling models from 3rd which don´t smile and my plague zombies are represented by non-GW minis. Wacky Nurgle models are as awful as Mutilators.
Ah, well, 3rd edition, yes. That would seem to settle things. Except well...
Realms of Chaos 2 - Lost and the Damned (1990)
Aw look at those happy guys
Gimme a big smile papa!
Who's a happy Daemon Prince of rot and decay?
You are! Yes you are!
In all seriousness the Realms of Chaos books were full of accounts of Nurgle being the chaos dude with the sense of humor. His plague beasts running up to folks and giving them a big lick, his followers dancing as they died, nurglings playing pranks and jokes... Obviously your Nurgle guys can be as grimdark as you'd like but happy Nurgle is a thing too.
Thank you for proving my point. Those depictions of demons from old art can´t be described as being goofy or wacky. Having an opened mouth doesn´t qualify for expressing a forced silly smile as we have to endure nowadays whenever we lay eyes on a modern Nurgling.
One last thing: Not being over the top in regards to silliness doesn´t attribute to being automatically grimdark.
Strg Alt wrote: Thank you for proving my point. Those depictions of demons from old art can´t be described as being goofy or wacky. Having an opened mouth doesn´t qualify for expressing a forced silly smile as we have to endure nowadays whenever we lay eyes on a modern Nurgling.
One last thing: Not being over the top in regards to silliness doesn´t attribute to being automatically grimdark.
I'd agree with you on the last two, they just seem to have their mouths open, but the first two are clearly smiling with big wide grins under that mess of fleshy mass.
At the end of the day it doesn't really matter when it started. Personally I find the dopy grins really unnerving, same way I like things like Made In Abyss where the cutesy art style belies the existential horror and dread of the subject matter. You don't have to agree obviously, everyone has their own tastes, but we already have Romero zombies if we want that, not everything needs to be exactly the same because it worked really well before. I like that they put a different spin on them and I find both versions creepy and unnerving, just in different ways.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: Nurgle and humor have been paired from the beginning. Part of the horror of Nurgle isn't just the pox and mutations, it's the insanity the makes you like it. Nurgle is after all the daemon lord of hope as well as disease.
So yeah happy smiley zombies and Lord Fester or whatever his name is, is part of the whole deal.
Nope, they haven´t. Retcon came along at some time in history and decreed that stupid grin on those models. I still own old Nurgling models from 3rd which don´t smile and my plague zombies are represented by non-GW minis. Wacky Nurgle models are as awful as Mutilators.
No, you're wrong. You're just as wrong as when I pointed out this fact to you THREE YEARS AGO. I suggest you stop tilting at that particlur windmill...
Strg Alt wrote: When you are doing these new cyber-zombies don´t model them with stupid grinning faces like they botched the new version of the plague zombies. Shudder!
The Poxwalkers aren't botched - the grins are a side-effect of the specific disease they're infected with.
That´s a half-assed reason people pulled out of their butts to make the models suitable for Little Timmy. Up to now I have never seen a Romero-Zombie wear a stupid grin on his face.
Good job the Poxwalkers aren't regular Romero-esque zombies, then, isn't it? For the most recent interpretation of that trope, try the Deadwalker Zombies from AOS, which don't feature the manic grin of the Poxwalker.
As the unit they were when introduced - and pointedly not a generic Plague Zombie - they're victims of a specific disease, the Walking Pox, and the rictus grin is a side effect of that infection. That you don't like it means sweet FA - it is an established element of Poxwalkers, just like the jolliness is of Nurgle himself, and the boisterousness of Beasts of Nurgle.
As for the men of iron you can bring them back by having them return to the home galaxy after they fled to once the war turned against with all sorts of new weapons, tech and a host of cyborg slave that they turned other organic life forms into if they reached another galaxy as the war was coming to a close.
Men of Iron would be too big a threat to bring in. They were War in Heaven Necrons levels of strength. Star destroying weapons, world consumers, gravity weapons, and self-replicating nanite swarms that would cover entire planets.
People keep forgetting that the Cybernetic Revolt almost ended the galaxy, not just Mankind. It wasn't some small isolated incident and the Imperium doesn't have the technology to stop a proper return of the Men of Iron like the Golden Age Humans did even if the other races of the galaxy helped like they did during the Cybernetic Revolt.
What's more, the Men of Iron weren't just machines. They were fully functioning true A.I. that could make their own choices and had their own emotions. If the Necrons hacked their central command processes they could come closer to their original height of power. The Chaos Gods could corrupt the Men of Iron and finally gain dominion over the galaxy. Adding them in either ends the galaxy or just brings more stalemates.
Kargan3033 wrote: As for the men of iron you can bring them back by having them return to the home galaxy after they fled to once the war turned against with all sorts of new weapons, tech and a host of cyborg slave that they turned other organic life forms into if they reached another galaxy as the war was coming to a close.
I think the Men of Iron would just be too redundant, another robot threat from the past.
It could be done well, maybe they're nanotech grey goo monsters instead of shiny metal dudes, but then we're into a whole new concept.
I would like zombies though. If not Enslavers with legions of psy zombies, how about Necron Zombie makers? Semi cyber dues ala the Borg.
Strg Alt wrote: When you are doing these new cyber-zombies don´t model them with stupid grinning faces like they botched the new version of the plague zombies. Shudder!
The Poxwalkers aren't botched - the grins are a side-effect of the specific disease they're infected with.
That´s a half-assed reason people pulled out of their butts to make the models suitable for Little Timmy. Up to now I have never seen a Romero-Zombie wear a stupid grin on his face.
Good job the Poxwalkers aren't regular Romero-esque zombies, then, isn't it? For the most recent interpretation of that trope, try the Deadwalker Zombies from AOS, which don't feature the manic grin of the Poxwalker.
As the unit they were when introduced - and pointedly not a generic Plague Zombie - they're victims of a specific disease, the Walking Pox, and the rictus grin is a side effect of that infection. That you don't like it means sweet FA - it is an established element of Poxwalkers, just like the jolliness is of Nurgle himself, and the boisterousness of Beasts of Nurgle.
True. No GENERIC plague zombies allowed anymore because in the Age of IP we can´t have that. Unit needs to be linked directly to GW. Final nail in the coffin is the stupid name of Poxwalkers implemented by GW lawyers like they did in the whole AoS segment. Groan!
New AoS zombies look promising. One question though: Why do they need to have roots puncturing their bodies?
Strg Alt wrote: One question though: Why do they need to have roots puncturing their bodies?
Corpses provide the nutrients for plants to grow. Only natural that some zombies would end up with roots growing through their bodies.
The stakes are because the people of the Mortal Realms know necromancy is a common thing and it's an attempt to prevent the zombies from rising from their graves in a more literal sense by weighing them down.
That's where we get "wooden stakes kill vampires" from. Originally wooden stakes were literally used to nail them to their graves so they couldn't get back up (but notably they'd still be alive). Stories also included placing a sickle around their neck so if they tried to sit up they'd decapitate themselves (although one wonders, if that's an option why not just decapitate them in the first place).
The stakes actually killing them was a development of that initial take.
Almost endless niches, but warehouse space, need for kits and art, and slots in the codex treadmill are considerable bottlenecks.
Instead of new factions, one-off kits, small kill teams, Necromunda miniatures, mercenary rules and the like would be a good way to further explore the vast setting. Rogue Trader style.
GW have long fought against the inescapable army book straitjacket and codex treadmill. Dreadfleet, Space Hulk, Specialist games and so on are all proof of this.
This is why it seems so bizarre not to use the Tau as a way into that. You don't even have to add lots of units just enough to keep things interesting.
Strg Alt wrote: One question though: Why do they need to have roots puncturing their bodies?
Corpses provide the nutrients for plants to grow. Only natural that some zombies would end up with roots growing through their bodies.
The stakes are because the people of the Mortal Realms know necromancy is a common thing and it's an attempt to prevent the zombies from rising from their graves in a more literal sense by weighing them down.
Looked them up a few minutes ago. They are looking good but the roots are going to snap easily. You need to have to be truly cautious with them. Reminds me of vintage Catachan radios. Also the price is...ridiculous! 20 zombies cost 42,50 Euro. 100 zombies from ZOMBIES!!! board game have cost me 10 Euro.
Gert wrote: Men of Iron would be too big a threat to bring in. They were War in Heaven Necrons levels of strength. Star destroying weapons, world consumers, gravity weapons, and self-replicating nanite swarms that would cover entire planets.
People keep forgetting that the Cybernetic Revolt almost ended the galaxy, not just Mankind.
I don't think that's accurate. Prior to the fall of the Eldar empire they were the dominant force in the galaxy.
A bit off-topic, but: There's something super captivating and unnerving about having the most basic necron warrior listed as "unknown" in the core rulebook.
It would be great if they retained that sense of menace today, but alas, the ultramarines must have punched one too many c'tan.
Yes, also retaining that sense of menace would detract from the hyperprotagonization of the Astartes, and they don't want that.
Hecaton wrote: I don't think that's accurate. Prior to the fall of the Eldar empire they were the dominant force in the galaxy.
Dominant doesn't mean they ruled the galaxy though.
The Aeldari empire did control a large portion of the galaxy but they were xenophobic and isolationist. They kept to their Paradise worlds and their culture evolved into the decadence and hedonism that caused the Fall.
Humanity was able to expand into a large empire of its own and while they did engage in conflict with both the Aeldari and Orks, it didn't stop their Golden Age from lasting from M.1 until M.25/26. Humanity wasn't some backwater feral empire, it was at the zenith of its scientific discoveries and the first Psykers were starting to emerge. The Cybernetic Revolt ended the Human Golden Age and was the first domino to fall in the series of events that threw the Human race into the Age of Strife. The Aeldari weren't sending massed armies out into the galaxy for conquest or to keep the lesser (read as all non-Aeldari) races in line because it wasn't their problem. The Old Ones were gone, the old enemy was hibernating and the Aeldari could live long lives of pleasure and joy without a care in the world. Who cares if some upstart race has built cybernetic organisms with free thought. Unless they came near the borders of the Aeldari empire they weren't a problem.
Squats. But not, because GW would have to give them an atrocious name like Halfstra Bearditarium or Vulkan He'short or something. The models would look amazing but be posed so dynamically that you couldn't make them look like they weren't falling over or dancing to a nursery rhyme even with all the greenstuff and sliced thumbs in the world. In short, they'd fit right in to the modern 40k experience. Oh and for good measure Primaris Marines would not be able to ride in a Leviathan because reasons.
Always thought 40k could do with a Predator influenced species. Fights for the thrill of the hunt, in small very elite groups using advanced technology... but sadly ai think the scale of the game has grown beyond that idea being feasible. The game is no longer a platoon level game, and with Custodies being a thing now it would step on their very small elite force too much.
Given how the lore has been fleshed out so well for all of the factions I think the only real places left that would work with the current game would be to reintroduce Squats, and to make a Lizardmen/Old Ones remnants faction.
To be honest I'm a bit wary of them introducing any new factions. Adding more is not necessarily good.
Re-introducing the Squats however is more than fine; the idea of Deep Rock Galactic space miners burrowing into planets, fighting Orks and Genestealers, is great in the context of the setting. They should say that the mysterious Squat-like Demiurge were Squats all along.
If they absolutely had to introduce another race, the Hrud as a companion of the Skaven seem okay. They should leave the Slann alone, as degenerated primitives with clubs on a couple of planets, and not fall into the temptation of having ancient races return, which would probably break the setting's coherency.
As for the Squats, I always felt the Tau took the Squats' place. The shooty and durable army, not a perfect match but role-wise pretty close. No psychics/magic but fantastic tech.
How the Legions of Voltage will work is still an open question. Adeptus Mech kind of took the Steampunk niche that Epic Squats had, and Tau have the near future high tech niche so...
Kid_Kyoto wrote: As for the Squats, I always felt the Tau took the Squats' place. The shooty and durable army, not a perfect match but role-wise pretty close. No psychics/magic but fantastic tech.
Ah, so we have another reason to think that the Tau should be removed from the game with extreme prejudice...
And on the WHFB vs. 40k comparison chart someone was posting above, Beastmen = Beastmen - we've got Tzanngors in play at present, there's a generic Beastman in Necromunda, and I think there were some other Chaos ones in BSF, if I'm not mistaken. Whether we see the return of Pestigors, Slaangors (especially with their size change in AOS) and Khorngors (sp?) down the line is another thing entirely.
). With drones, tanks and all kinds of unconventional robot forms you could easily fill up an entire army roster with all kinds of cool robots. And lore wise it could fit neatly into the machine spirit parts and be a grim reminder to the Imperium about what happens when you make calculators too smart.
I am totally on the Enslaver train, choo-choo! 1 kit of a giant floating brain monster, 1 kit of mind slaved zombies, codex of psychic nastiness and endless mind-slave hordes and you've got a party. If you thought the Lords of Chaos were bad news, wait till you see the Lords of Order!
