I don't think this has had it's own thread yet. From WarCom:

T’au Empire Forge World Kits

While customers in selected regions* are picking up their new T’au Empire goodies on the Games Workshop webstore, they will also be able to grab some advanced Forge World kits in the same order! You can add the destructive firepower of the massive KX139 Ta’unar Supremacy Armour, bring death from above with the AX 1-0 Tigershark, and recruit additional battlesuits in the form of the XV107 and XV109 variants at the same time as you buy your new codex.

* These products will not be available through games-workshop.com in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, or China.

Given the limited number of kits and geographic availability, I'm not sure what they'll learn from it...

This is actually interesting, and I have never really understood why this wasn't the case anyway.

I am hoping this means that generic GW vouchers can now be used for FW stuff.

Frankly it'll be nice to have an option just to save on the postage. I've not looked in a while, but forgeworld had a shipping price of 10% of your order total unless the order was £500+.

StraightSilver wrote:
I have never really understood why this wasn't the case anyway.

The two 'reasons' I keep hearing are that GW stores don't want to deal with miscasts, and they might have to offer the FW kits to 3rd party sellers (under monopoly laws or something).

beast_gts wrote:

StraightSilver wrote:
I have never really understood why this wasn't the case anyway.

The two 'reasons' I keep hearing are that GW stores don't want to deal with miscasts, and they might have to offer the FW kits to 3rd party sellers (under monopoly laws or something).

Ah, that actually makes sense tbh.

The Black Adder wrote:
forgeworld had a shipping price of 10% of your order total unless the order was £500+.

Currently it's:
Standard - FREE over £75 or £3.50 for orders totalling less than £75.
Tracked - FREE over £250 or £6 for orders totalling less than £250.

I welcome the promotion of more FW stuff - and the chance that it means FW will survive, expand and stick around. As amazing as GW plastics are, resin still has the edge in fine detail and in certain sculpt shapes and such which are near impossible in plastics (or require insanely creative cutting or lots of parts).

beast_gts wrote:

The Black Adder wrote:
forgeworld had a shipping price of 10% of your order total unless the order was £500+.

Currently it's:
Standard - FREE over £75 or £3.50 for orders totalling less than £75.
Tracked - FREE over £250 or £6 for orders totalling less than £250.

Btw, there is absolutely no difference with the postage methods. Only difference: In the first case you don't always get a functioning tracking button, but instead have to manually look it up at UPS with the code that you have under your order history. It's meaningless anyway though. I ordered 3 times in the last 18 months and every time the item arrived before the tracking updated to dispatched based on their Lyon dispatch location. (I guess they bulk transport everything to a EU entity before individual shipping) and everytime it took them far longer than the estimate they supplied.

beast_gts wrote:

The Black Adder wrote:
forgeworld had a shipping price of 10% of your order total unless the order was £500+.

Currently it's:
Standard - FREE over £75 or £3.50 for orders totalling less than £75.
Tracked - FREE over £250 or £6 for orders totalling less than £250.

Huh - it's been a while since I checked their shipping, so I had the 10% thing stuck in my brain.

Might get a small(ish) order placed this week, then.

beast_gts wrote:

The Black Adder wrote:
forgeworld had a shipping price of 10% of your order total unless the order was £500+.

Currently it's:
Standard - FREE over £75 or £3.50 for orders totalling less than £75.
Tracked - FREE over £250 or £6 for orders totalling less than £250.

Thanks. They seem much more reasonable. I guess they've been that way for a while. It's been ages since I ordered anything from them.

It's still a good move to reorganize and merge the sites, if that's the way this is heading - they'll just need to clearly mark the resin products for people who don't like dealing with that material.

The Black Adder wrote:
Frankly it'll be nice to have an option just to save on the postage. I've not looked in a while, but forgeworld had a shipping price of 10% of your order total unless the order was £500+.

ATM it's 90€ so it's def gone down waaaay much. Less than 25€ GW has but with price of FW kits 90€ comes up REAL fast. If you are under 90€ it's flat 10€ fee.

You REALLY haven't looked at it for a while

Of course it's possible shipping gets priced FW style if order contains FW items...but even then FW tau kit+Tau GW stuff=90€ should be reached pretty fast so likely wouldn't be issue anyway

If you buy at your local GW store, anything you order that comes to them has free shipping. If FW models bought from the GW site also get shipped free to them, that would be pretty nice.

beast_gts wrote:

StraightSilver wrote:
I have never really understood why this wasn't the case anyway.

The two 'reasons' I keep hearing are that GW stores don't want to deal with miscasts, and they might have to offer the FW kits to 3rd party sellers (under monopoly laws or something).

I can completely understand why this would be the case - at the moment, I order anything from the GW site and for the vast majority have a high quality plastic kit that fits together nicely, and comes in a nice box.

It won't be the case for many of us that are experienced modellers, but little Timmy receiving his twisted piece of miscast resin, in a clear plastic bag and white box, for an exorbitant sum of money, won't provide quite the same customer experience.

 GaroRobe wrote:
If you buy at your local GW store, anything you order that comes to them has free shipping. If FW models bought from the GW site also get shipped free to them, that would be pretty nice.

Yeah that's what I've done in the past. A few less deliveries is better for the environment too. I'll be happy of I can get forgeworld in the same way.

This sounds good I guess, though being in Australia I don't really care since FW stuff comes from the UK anyway and takes weeks to arrive and I typically buy enough to get in the "free shipping" category.

I kinda prefer it just to have it show up at my door instead of having to drive to the local shop and some indeterminate time in the future.

And, as always with GW, I worry this will come with a price rise.

 GaroRobe wrote:
If you buy at your local GW store, anything you order that comes to them has free shipping. If FW models bought from the GW site also get shipped free to them, that would be pretty nice.

Who buys FW in small enough lots to not get free shipping?





Automatically Appended Next Post:

The Black Adder wrote:
Yeah that's what I've done in the past. A few less deliveries is better for the environment too. I'll be happy of I can get forgeworld in the same way.

I probably burn more fuel getting to my local GW than the delivery truck burns getting from the depot to my house via all the other destinations on its route that day.

I wonder if this will help them realize that FW kits might sell more if more readily accessible. In that case they might also start to either: give more manpower to FW to keep kits in stock, or to start porting over the better selling kits to plastic quicker. Then FW could become more of a testbed of new ideas. Create a new type of Space Marine unit, and if it is well accepted then they can turn it into plastic and more sales. If it turns out to be a dud (Looking at the Centurions ), then they stay resin and left in certain warzones, campaigns. Transitions to plastic helped sell the Valkyrie and other units.

So this won't exist in their 2nd, 3rd, and 4th largest markets?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


Who buys FW in small enough lots to not get free shipping?

Dread weapons are what 14e piece? If you just need 4 that's about half way.

 Theophony wrote:
I wonder if this will help them realize that FW kits might sell more if more readily accessible. In that case they might also start to either: give more manpower to FW to keep kits in stock, or to start porting over the better selling kits to plastic quicker. Then FW could become more of a testbed of new ideas. Create a new type of Space Marine unit, and if it is well accepted then they can turn it into plastic and more sales. If it turns out to be a dud (Looking at the Centurions ), then they stay resin and left in certain warzones, campaigns. Transitions to plastic helped sell the Valkyrie and other units.

Porting FW models to plastic looses so much detail, that this is not a direction I would want for FW kits. Just compare FW Trygon to a plastic one. Flat plates of Imperial vehicles are easy, but the power of FW is in the freedom of sculpting that is possible only with resin medium.

It's worth mentioning that this is just a small range of items that are being listed.

I wouldn't be shocked if they make it so the "Most Popular" items get to be made available on the GW site.

If GW wants to sell me FW stuff, they need to lower prices and improve the material.

 Theophony wrote:
I wonder if this will help them realize that FW kits might sell more if more readily accessible. In that case they might also start to either: give more manpower to FW to keep kits in stock, or to start porting over the better selling kits to plastic quicker. Then FW could become more of a testbed of new ideas. Create a new type of Space Marine unit, and if it is well accepted then they can turn it into plastic and more sales. If it turns out to be a dud (Looking at the Centurions ), then they stay resin and left in certain warzones, campaigns. Transitions to plastic helped sell the Valkyrie and other units.

I doubt it, anyone who is going to pay premium prices for resin models already knows where to find Forge World.

 Londinium wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
I wonder if this will help them realize that FW kits might sell more if more readily accessible. In that case they might also start to either: give more manpower to FW to keep kits in stock, or to start porting over the better selling kits to plastic quicker. Then FW could become more of a testbed of new ideas. Create a new type of Space Marine unit, and if it is well accepted then they can turn it into plastic and more sales. If it turns out to be a dud (Looking at the Centurions ), then they stay resin and left in certain warzones, campaigns. Transitions to plastic helped sell the Valkyrie and other units.

I doubt it, anyone who is going to pay premium prices for resin models already knows where to find Forge World.

Yes and no - I know a LOT of newer people have no real clue about FW and even think its a separate firm entirely (not just in a legal sense).

Heck the community pages hardly mention it, I recall seeing a whole article on exalted greater demons and they didn't mention nor show any of the FW ones. Meanwhile the AoS line is almost entirely gutted of models with some of those that remain being Gloomspite who I recall were one of the few who actually got a lot of their stuff shown off (esp the Colossal Squig) on the social pages. So I'd wager there's a good number who don't really have a clue FW is there and that they can buy from there and use them in their GW store (3rd party models are great options, but not legal at your local GW store). Also there are some who like to support their local store and until this scheme comes in, the GW store lcoal wouldn't get any sales metrics from FW purchases. You could spend £1000s and your local store wouldn't get any of it recorded as a sale.

Huh, neat that they are doing it, but no real interest either (even outside of not playing Tau).

I personally lost all interest in Forge World when they switched to regional pricing, claiming it will make shipping cheaper yay! Then it turned out they dropped free shipping threshold a tiny amount and increased the price on each and every kit by the GW arbitrary conversion rate. The entire site was a hell of a lot cheaper to shop from overall before that change.

nou wrote:
Porting FW models to plastic looses so much detail

Yup, you lose 2 cm thick cloaks, ugly, misshapen bits, warping, bubbles, plastic bag arriving with most of thin bits broken and all the other "detail"

Just compare this excellent, lots of detail, best sculpt, totally not lump of gak FW Varag making razorgors look good:



With this terrible, no detail, vastly better sculpt, detail and cast GW Varag released to fix FW terribad design right afterwards:


Just look at it, face of plastic Varag has more detail than the ""detailed"" FW abomination and on top of it, it dares to be cheaper. And that's just one example out of dozens, particularly handy because it's the same character from the same time period.

Or look at all the ""detail"" in this upside-down FW gak lumpy SW bolter where the sculptor put iron sights at the bottom and bayonet mount at the top:



DETAIL!

 Irbis wrote:

nou wrote:
Porting FW models to plastic looses so much detail

Yup, you lose 2 cm thick cloaks, ugly, misshapen bits, warping, bubbles, plastic bag arriving with most of thin bits broken and all the other "detail"

Just compare this excellent, lots of detail, best sculpt, totally not lump of gak FW Varag making razorgors look good:

Spoiler:

With this terrible, no detail, vastly better sculpt, detail and cast GW Varag released to fix FW terribad design right afterwards:

Spoiler:

Just look at it, face of plastic Varag has more detail than the ""detailed"" FW abomination and on top of it, it dares to be cheaper. And that's just one example out of dozens, particularly handy because it's the same character from the same time period.

Or look at all the ""detail"" in this upside-down FW gak lumpy SW bolter where the sculptor put iron sights at the bottom and bayonet mount at the top:



DETAIL!

Excuse me, 2cm cloaks? That is a vast overstatement, they're only 1.5cm at best! So much better and more detailed than GW's pathetic cloak-thick cloaks!

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

nou wrote:
Porting FW models to plastic looses so much detail

Yup, you lose 2 cm thick cloaks, ugly, misshapen bits, warping, bubbles, plastic bag arriving with most of thin bits broken and all the other "detail"

Just compare this excellent, lots of detail, best sculpt, totally not lump of gak FW Varag making razorgors look good:

Spoiler:

With this terrible, no detail, vastly better sculpt, detail and cast GW Varag released to fix FW terribad design right afterwards:

Spoiler:

Just look at it, face of plastic Varag has more detail than the ""detailed"" FW abomination and on top of it, it dares to be cheaper. And that's just one example out of dozens, particularly handy because it's the same character from the same time period.

Or look at all the ""detail"" in this upside-down FW gak lumpy SW bolter where the sculptor put iron sights at the bottom and bayonet mount at the top:



DETAIL!

Excuse me, 2cm cloaks? That is a vast overstatement, they're only 1.5cm at best! So much better and more detailed than GW's pathetic cloak-thick cloaks!

We've been here already:
There is more to cloaks than just edge thickness, Sigvald's cape is merely wrinkled because guess what, plastic mould limitations. And as I see you still don't understand what comes from medium limitation and what comes from monoblock casting limitations...

And please, do show me where all the surface detail on plastic Tyranids is:

The last one is a direct change of medium without major resculpt, just with all the detail impossible in plastic gone.

nou wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

nou wrote:
Porting FW models to plastic looses so much detail

Yup, you lose 2 cm thick cloaks, ugly, misshapen bits, warping, bubbles, plastic bag arriving with most of thin bits broken and all the other "detail"

Just compare this excellent, lots of detail, best sculpt, totally not lump of gak FW Varag making razorgors look good:

Spoiler:

With this terrible, no detail, vastly better sculpt, detail and cast GW Varag released to fix FW terribad design right afterwards:

Spoiler:

Just look at it, face of plastic Varag has more detail than the ""detailed"" FW abomination and on top of it, it dares to be cheaper. And that's just one example out of dozens, particularly handy because it's the same character from the same time period.

Or look at all the ""detail"" in this upside-down FW gak lumpy SW bolter where the sculptor put iron sights at the bottom and bayonet mount at the top:



DETAIL!

Excuse me, 2cm cloaks? That is a vast overstatement, they're only 1.5cm at best! So much better and more detailed than GW's pathetic cloak-thick cloaks!

We've been here already:
There is more to cloaks than just edge thickness, Sigvald's cape is merely wrinkled because guess what, plastic mould limitations. And as I see you still don't understand what comes from medium limitation and what comes from monoblock casting limitations...

And please, do show me where all the surface detail on plastic Tyranids is:

The last one is a direct change of medium without major resculpt, just with all the detail impossible in plastic gone.

Except you can perfectly get those details in plastic, and GW simply chose not to do them for whatever reason in that particular resculpt? Just look at the (plastic) Exocrine. It has all the surface detailing you could get in FW resin. Even recessed details inside the vents, just in a diffrent style than the FW ones.

And Sigvald's cape is not "merely wrinkled", it's very dynamically billowing (and it also has embossed details). But if you really want an example of a cape folding on itself like the FW clump for some reason, here, Light of Eltharion and his cape. Also GW plastic. And it even has the funky little tassels at the end, that would arrive horribly mangled and miscast from FW 9 times out of 10.

And this is how a multipart resin mini can look like. Wait, I must have photoshopped those 2cm of cape out of it and photoshopped in the crown and ribbons, because those are clearly impossible in resin.



This is a photo of the prototype, but I actually have this mini in a production version and it is 100% awesome, as it benefits from both great detail density of resin and multipart casting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And no, Exocrine has nowhere near the level of surface detail Dimacheron or Malanthrope has, have you ever seen those in person? They are standing less than a meter from me as I write those words, all three of them, two detailed FW models and an Exocrine flat as hell in comparison.

And Eltharion still has a cape wrinkles limited by the medium, sorry, it could have way more natural looking cape when done in resin.

nou wrote:
And this is how a multipart resin mini can look like. Wait, I must have photoshopped those 2cm of cape out of it and photoshopped in the crown and ribbons, because those are clearly impossible in resin.



This is a photo of the prototype, but I actually have this mini in a production version and it is 100% awesome, as it benefits from both great detail density of resin and multipart casting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And no, Exocrine has nowhere near the level of surface detail Dimacheron or Malanthrope has, have you ever seen those in person? They are standing less than a meter from me as I write those words.

And Eltharion still has a cape wrinkles limited by the medium, sorry, it could have way more natural looking cape when done in resin.

What model is that, out of interest?

 vipoid wrote:

nou wrote:
And this is how a multipart resin mini can look like. Wait, I must have photoshopped those 2cm of cape out of it and photoshopped in the crown and ribbons, because those are clearly impossible in resin.



This is a photo of the prototype, but I actually have this mini in a production version and it is 100% awesome, as it benefits from both great detail density of resin and multipart casting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And no, Exocrine has nowhere near the level of surface detail Dimacheron or Malanthrope has, have you ever seen those in person? They are standing less than a meter from me as I write those words.

And Eltharion still has a cape wrinkles limited by the medium, sorry, it could have way more natural looking cape when done in resin.

What model is that, out of interest?

"The Old One" by Ghost Miniatures. This guy understands Jess Goodwin's Eldar better than current GW does, apparently.

nou wrote:
And this is how a multipart resin mini can look like. Wait, I must have photoshopped those 2cm of cape out of it and photoshopped in the crown and ribbons, because those are clearly impossible in resin.



This is a photo of the prototype, but I actually have this mini in a production version and it is 100% awesome, as it benefits from both great detail density of resin and multipart casting.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And no, Exocrine has nowhere near the level of surface detail Dimacheron or Malanthrope has, have you ever seen those in person? They are standing less than a meter from me as I write those words, all three of them, two detailed FW models and an Exocrine flat as hell in comparison.

And Eltharion still has a cape wrinkles limited by the medium, sorry, it could have way more natural looking cape when done in resin.

Yes clearly, a solid hunk of gak is clearly obviously more natural than a flowing cape.

Also that's obviosly not FW, aka not going for the lowest common denominator, and might even have a concept of such a thing as "quality control"! Clearly, not applicable to discussion about FW compared to GW.

nou wrote:

"The Old One" by Ghost Miniatures. This guy understands Jess Goodwin's Eldar better than current GW does, apparently.

Ah, thank you. It's a really lovely model.

nou wrote:

"The Old One" by Ghost Miniatures. This guy understands Jess Goodwin's Eldar better than current GW does, apparently.

That's a bold claim, considering it's Goodwin's own design work.

Could we at least agree that porting some FW kits over to plastic would be great for Tau specifically? I've wanted plastic Tetras since the minute I learned they existed, and the XV9s are the most beautiful suits the army has.

Look at the cloak on this guy in 360. It's like 1.5mm thick https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Imperial-Fists-Tor-Garadon-2020 you can get it thinner in resin, that's not disputable. Strange thing to focus on though. Cape thickness. Like that's the benchmark of plastic vs resin, rather than, idk, something like this guy's face (literally impossible in plastic. Not even close)

(unfortunately not available on FW right now where the large images of bare resin show true details of the miniature)

JWBS wrote:
Look at the cloak on this guy in 360. It's like 1.5mm thick https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Imperial-Fists-Tor-Garadon-2020 you can get it thinner in resin, that's not disputable. Strange thing to focus on though. Cape thickness. Like that's the benchmark of plastic vs resin, rather than, idk, something like this guy's face (literally impossible in plastic. Not even close)

(unfortunately not available on FW right now where the large images of bare resin show true details of the miniature)

I understand you perfectly and pretty much anyone in this hobby with a focus on painting and showpieces knows that resin is way better for sharp and fine details than plastic is.

This cloak conundrum is a continuation of from another thread, when I commented on new Rangers cloaks and Skitarii cloaks suffering from plastic limitations and thus being too plain for my taste and old Rangers had way better fabric rendition. And then it went just as you see above.

Of course resin can sometimes have better details than plastic in certain situation - as long, of course, as the mold is brand new, there isn't any egregious flashing or bubbling on the area, and the mold didn't slip because the underpaid intern had a coughing fit due to advanced resin dust poisoning.

Because otherwise, the quality of the detail only depends on how good you're at greenstuffing.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Of course resin can sometimes have better details than plastic in certain situation - as long, of course, as the mold is brand new, there isn't any egregious flashing or bubbling on the area, and the mold didn't slip because the underpaid intern had a coughing fit due to advanced resin dust poisoning.

Because otherwise, the quality of the detail only depends on how good you're at greenstuffing.

The condition of the model you end up being sent seems besides the point as to whether the medium of plastic or resin allows for better details in the first place.

Yeah, those are criticisms of FW/GW quality control/production methods, not of the ultimate quality of resin Vs plastic as a medium for miniatures.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Yeah, those are criticisms of FW/GW quality control/production methods, not of the ultimate quality of resin Vs plastic as a medium for miniatures.

Seems like a pretty relevant criticism, though. What use is it to say resin is capable of better detail if the figures they sell are all a mess?

Well, there are those of us that live outside of the GW ecosystem when it is *only* a criticism of FW, and not in the least applicable to many other manufacturers, it has little relevance on the properties on the medium and everything to do with the shortcomings of one company.

Somewhat related - TTCombat had 'issues' with their resin casting last year, so overhauled their processes and documented it here.

 Londinium wrote:
anyone who is going to pay premium prices for resin models already knows where to find Forge World.

Not always - some stores had people coming in looking for Volkite Contemptors. They knew it existed, but not that it was a FW model.

 Azreal13 wrote:
Well, there are those of us that live outside of the GW ecosystem when it is *only* a criticism of FW, and not in the least applicable to many other manufacturers, it has little relevance on the properties on the medium and everything to do with the shortcomings of one company.

But the subject of the discussion is literally wheather or not GW's models are inferior when it comes to details and sculpting and quality when compared to FW models, and thus, if models moving from FW to GW being a chage for the worst. Making making the discussion about FW's quality control very relevant.

But separate.

There no question that a good FW cast (and they do exist) will trounce a plastic cast, because the material is inherently superior. Or shall we choose to compare a poor resin cast to a plastic one where the mould slipped and there's flash and stepping everywhere? Because only apples to apples is fair.

Your odds of getting one of those is a different matter, but has no bearing on the material properties.

There is a fun argument to be made regarding which is superior:

- you can take plastic sprue and directly recast it in resin with all the detail of the sprue present.

- you cannot take a resin mini and convert it for the plastic process without cutting it to gazilion pieces and removing all the detail that is impossible to reproduce with a rigid mould that allows only one release direction.

I don't need superglue to put plastic minis together.

Plastic wins.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't need superglue to put together plastic minis.

Plastic wins.

Same... exactly this. I have tried resin before, and I swore never to buy another resin model again after that. Plastic is so much better. With the technology these days, you can have great sculpts from plastic models, so I fail to understand why there is still this attachment to resin.

I will never ever buy Forgeworld if it is in resin. I would rather use a sub par GW unit.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I don't need superglue to put plastic minis together.

Plastic wins.

I can't be the only one that prefers working with super glue. I use Gorilla brand gel super glue and it's never given me an issue if I'm careful with it. It's also easier to add third party resin bits to plastic minis, even metal mini kitbashing is good to go.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
so I fail to understand why there is still this attachment to resin.

I look at my FW DKoK, then I look at my GW DKoK, and I still have an attachment to resin

Well, my experience ...

GW plastic kits ... always fit. little to no filing needed, no cleaning needed either. You dab a little bit of glue and put the two pieces together which fit perfectly, you don't even need to use much strength, you can then literally move on to the next step already and glue/cut out other pieces. Its done, and it will stay done. Made a mistake, easy to remedy.

Resin kit.... need to clean, need to file bits and edges off, the two pieces might not even fit together properly. Apply super glue, make a mess, get your fingers stuck to something. Especially because you have to press those two pieces together together and literally hold it there for like at least a minute or two. (I have ever held two pieces together for 5 minutes and they still fall apart the minute I let go)...

Yeah... my experience between the two are wildly different. Big plastic model kit like a chaos knight or a lord of skulls ... I love it! Resin kit .... urggh, just put me out of my misery. The only upside to resin is there are usually less parts in a kit. But that is only because if a resin kit came with like 100 resin parts, I would literally scream and throw it out of the window. Like imagine having to hold two parts together for even 2 minutes for the superglue to stick. a 100 part resin kit would require me to hold parts together for 200 minutes... and that's just hold two parts together portion only...

And don't get me wrong. I actually love putting together a plastic kit. But I need to be doing something (be it cutting off pieces from the sprue, referring to the instructions, fitting the pieces together, etc). Just staring blankly into space waiting for superglue to glue together two pieces is not fun. Plastic kits need none of that.

Your experience sounds like you've mostly bought cheap gak super glue...

 Azreal13 wrote:
Your experience sounds like you've mostly bought cheap gak super glue...

I don't know if it was cheap super glue. But it was strong enough to glue my fingers to the resin kit before, and that experience in itself was an alarming and distressing one which I would not want to repeat either. Like I held two pieces of resin together for two minutes, and when I let go, the two resin pieces didn't glue together, but instead, my finger got glued to one of the pieces instead... lol

Well frankly, you've still got a problem if that's the way you apply glue, as while poly cement won't stick to you, if you're applying adhesive and handling parts that way, you're going to end up with fingerprints all over a plastic model.

But, like all things hobby, it's a skill which improves with practice, if you just throw your hands up at the first hurdle because you're not immediately brilliant at it, then you won't improve.

YMMV whether that matters, but improving my skills is an important part of the hobby.

So I am supposed to use twizers? Or wear gloves? I think I will just stick to plastic kits. Thanks. lol

I have put together plastic battleships, gundam models, thousands of points in GW plastic kits and enjoyed all of that. In comparison, I can probably count on one hand the number of resin kits I put together and I always hated it. So I will stick to plastic.

nou wrote:

 Theophony wrote:
I wonder if this will help them realize that FW kits might sell more if more readily accessible. In that case they might also start to either: give more manpower to FW to keep kits in stock, or to start porting over the better selling kits to plastic quicker. Then FW could become more of a testbed of new ideas. Create a new type of Space Marine unit, and if it is well accepted then they can turn it into plastic and more sales. If it turns out to be a dud (Looking at the Centurions ), then they stay resin and left in certain warzones, campaigns. Transitions to plastic helped sell the Valkyrie and other units.

Porting FW models to plastic looses so much detail, that this is not a direction I would want for FW kits. Just compare FW Trygon to a plastic one. Flat plates of Imperial vehicles are easy, but the power of FW is in the freedom of sculpting that is possible only with resin medium.

I needed a good laugh today.

Try and compare anything in the FW catalog with anything GW proper has released in the last five years.

Resin has, objetively, much more capability of doing 3D in miniature form and finer detail.

Those traits will be much more valuable to people that wants top end miniatures for painting, displaying, etc...

I have a couple of resin miniatures specially for special characters, greater demons, etc... because I want them to stand out with a ton of detail.

But as a gamer what I want most of the time is miniatures I like with an aesthetic I like. And most of GW offerings (Or other plastics manufacturers like victrix, etc...) are absolutely lovely for my liking. I can take a Wargames Atlantic Ramjauger or a Victrix Viking or a Space Marine and like how it looks.

And for building, painting, how sturdy they are, etc... plastic is a much superior medium to Resin.

When people complains about resin as it is the worst thing ever, in my opinion,they are quite hyperbolic. Is a little more of work and is more frail, thats true. And if you are doing a full army in resin with 100 or more models it is really a pain in the arse.

But the same goes at the inverse. Some resin lovers complaint about plastic like we are looking at 90's old school heroquest skeletons when modern plastic kits are absolutely fantastic even when having less detail than resin counterpats. The Trygon for example is an extremely lovely model and even with the loss of detail looks great. And as a gamer I value more the virtues that having that big of a model in plastic gives me, over some objetive detail loss that doesn't put the model near the line of me not liking it anymore.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
So I am supposed to use twizers? Or wear gloves? I think I will just stick to plastic kits. Thanks. lol

I have put together plastic battleships, gundam models, thousands of points in GW plastic kits and enjoyed all of that. In comparison, I can probably count on one hand the number of resin kits I put together and I always hated it. So I will stick to plastic.

That's probably your problem, not enough practice

If the resin model is good quality (no mould slippages or excessive flash) then I don't find it takes much longer to construct an average resin model vs an average plastic one.

The problems do compound as the models get bigger, so building a Manta or a Thunderhawk or a Warlord, sure, that's going to be a bit more challenging, but if we're just talking your average infantrymen in resin vs plastic, I can deal with the resin easily enough. But it is definitely a different workflow.

If your issue is glue not drying, it means the gap is too big and the parts don't mate properly. Superglue only cures quickly in a very thin film, that's why you can glue your hands together easy, your soft skin presses the glue into a thin film so it dries pretty much instantly. For some parts, that might just mean shaving the joint faces a bit to increase the area which forms a gap-free mating surface to achieve that thin film, or you do the old greenstuff - superglue sandwich trick. You can also breathe on the superglue with the most humid breath you can muster, as moisture/humidity accelerates the curing.

As for gluing your hands together, I dunno, don't hold so close to the join and if you figure out the gap problem it'll probably be less of an issue. Can't say I've ever had a problem gluing my hands together while building resin models (now, metal models as a kid, yeah, I did end up part of the model a few times ).

If forgeworld switches over to plastic, I would consider buying some forgeworld even if its more expensive. But it of course depends on whether I like the model kit itself as well.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
If forgeworld switches over to plastic, I would consider buying some forgeworld even if its more expensive. But it of course depends on whether I like the model kit itself as well.

FW isn't going to start producing plastic unless they basically just kill FW. The advantage of resin is that you can have a small operation of enthusiasts without the outlay, lead times, etc of plastic models, which is the basic MO of FW.

Granted, I don't think FW has produced as much nice stuff in the past few years as they used to. Not long ago I'd struggle to find a model on the FW website that I didn't want, now I could skip most of them.

Why can't Forgeworld just use full 3D printing if its just a small operation of enthusiasts? I honestly think plastic is a far superior technology than resin. Not sure why it is necessary to stay in resin at all really.

This is about adopting new technology really. For mass retail, plastic is the way to go. And I would think that as a business, you always want to sell as many models as possible.

Even if its considered a "premium" sculpt for forgeworld. Then I still consider using 3D printing to do it far superior to using resin for the models.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Why can't Forgeworld just use full 3D printing if its just a small operation of enthusiasts? I honestly think plastic is a far superior technology than resin. Not sure why it is necessary to stay in resin at all really.

This is about adopting new technology really. For mass retail, plastic is the way to go. And I would think that as a business, you always want to sell as many models as possible.

FW isn't mass retail, only when something looks like it's going to be popular enough to port over to plastic does it happen. Technology has improved but it's still a much bigger investment. That's why resin is still so popular amongst smaller manufacturers (and FW is the small enthusiast wing of GW).

Even if its considered a "premium" sculpt for forgeworld. Then I still consider using 3D printing to do it far superior to using resin for the models.

Good 3D printers (not the cheap consumer variety) are still expensive and a hell of a lot slower than producing resin models. Some studios 3D print their masters externally and then cast in resin anyway because it's so much faster. That's increasingly true of the larger models that FW is renowned for.

I also don't think 3D printing is superior to resin casting, based on what I've seen at least.

Also, I'm not convinced 3D printed models will be good long term, people talk a lot about "over curing" UV resin, which makes me worried in 5 or 10 years time the resin will have degraded and just snap.

FW have actually started using 3D printed masters, and it's to the detriment of the model, I made a post over on the Specialist Games forum bitching about poor quality Arvus Lighters that were clearly recast off 3D printed masters, complete with unnecessary supports and ridge lines / striations.

I've had a few models (not FW) that have had 3D printing artefacts visible too. Only layer lines, nothing physical that should have been removed prior to casting.

They entirely disappeared once the models were primed (and with a light, airbrush primer too, nothing thick) and I felt it was more testament to the fidelity of the cast rather than a problem. If there'd been left over support material I daresay I may have felt differently.

But to suggest FW switch to 3D I think shows an underestimation of exactly the volume of models they're selling, even as the "boutique" element of GW, and how massively complex that would be in comparison to the casting they do now.

It would just be nice if they invested some of the premium they charge over even other boutique resin casters in refining the process.

 Azreal13 wrote:
I've had a few models (not FW) that have had 3D printing artefacts visible too. Only layer lines, nothing physical that should have been removed prior to casting.

They entirely disappeared once the models were primed (and with a light, airbrush primer too, nothing thick) and I felt it was more testament to the fidelity of the cast rather than a problem. If there'd been left over support material I daresay I may have felt differently.

I'm hoping they go away, I'll probably get a chance to prime them this weekend and see, but the texture is noticeable when I run my finger over it. It's not as bad as when I print something on my own printer at home, but not a hell of a lot better. We'll see, maybe I'm bitching about nothing. But it does remind me of the recent criticisms of the poor quality Necrons in the new Aeronautica Imperialis kits and made me think is it poor quality because they're being limited by their 3D printers rather than their sculptors.

But to suggest FW switch to 3D I think shows an underestimation of exactly the volume of models they're selling, even as the "boutique" element of GW, and how massively complex that would be in comparison to the casting they do now.

It would just be nice if they invested some of the premium they charge over even other boutique resin casters in refining the process.

Yeah, I imagine FW currently lie part way between "3D printing is too slow" and "mass produced plastic is too expensive". I believe FW have only shifted a few hundred Mantas, compare that to companies like Tamiya or Airfix who make large aircraft models but have a handful of models in every hobby store in every city in nearly every country.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
If forgeworld switches over to plastic, I would consider buying some forgeworld even if its more expensive. But it of course depends on whether I like the model kit itself as well.

Seeing　point of fw is do kits that wouldn't be profitable in plastic...you expect gw to set division intentionally to lose money? Looooool!


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Why can't Forgeworld just use full 3D printing if its just a small operation of enthusiasts? I honestly think plastic is a far superior technology than resin. Not sure why it is necessary to stay in resin at all really.

This is about adopting new technology really. For mass retail, plastic is the way to go. And I would think that as a business, you always want to sell as many models as possible.

Even if its considered a "premium" sculpt for forgeworld. Then I still consider using 3D printing to do it far superior to using resin for the models.

Details for one. Every material has it'# strong and weak points.

Btw gw's plastic obsession is why we have 30e charactei models for simple humans with less room for details, no options and monopose.

For the record I prefer plastic, for all the reasons one might think. Back in the day I was willing to go to the extra lengths to make resin work, but these days I generally want minimum frustration in what's supposed to be a relaxing hobby. I still generally put a lot of effort into my painting (which can be frustrating) but I've crossed the line of tolerating it in cleaning / building minis.

JWBS wrote:
For the record I prefer plastic, for all the reasons one might think. Back in the day I was willing to go to the extra lengths to make resin work, but these days I generally want minimum frustration in what's supposed to be a relaxing hobby. I still generally put a lot of effort into my painting (which can be frustrating) but I've crossed the line of tolerating it in cleaning / building minis.

In the end I prefer plastic too, but the difference to me isn't massive (barring miscasts) and I'm more the willing to put up with resin if the end result is a crispier detailed model, especially if we're talking about elite troops, characters and display models.

JWBS wrote:
For the record I prefer plastic, for all the reasons one might think. Back in the day I was willing to go to the extra lengths to make resin work, but these days I generally want minimum frustration in what's supposed to be a relaxing hobby. I still generally put a lot of effort into my painting (which can be frustrating) but I've crossed the line of tolerating it in cleaning / building minis.

Ah yes. Having another glue on shelf is sooooooooooooo stressfull

I take that over bazillion tiny pieces in weird shapes you need to glue to get what resin gets in one piece with better details.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
If forgeworld switches over to plastic, I would consider buying some forgeworld even if its more expensive. But it of course depends on whether I like the model kit itself as well.

100% agree. The most disappointing thing about FW reveals is learning they are from Forgeworld and therefore useless for kitbashing and insanely overpriced. Resin is an easy miss for me. Plastic is just a better medium all around.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

JWBS wrote:
For the record I prefer plastic, for all the reasons one might think. Back in the day I was willing to go to the extra lengths to make resin work, but these days I generally want minimum frustration in what's supposed to be a relaxing hobby. I still generally put a lot of effort into my painting (which can be frustrating) but I've crossed the line of tolerating it in cleaning / building minis.

Amen to that.

Eldenfirefly wrote:
Well, my experience ...

GW plastic kits ... always fit. little to no filing needed, no cleaning needed either.

I have assembled SM Land Speeders, you know

 Scottywan82 wrote:
100% agree. The most disappointing thing about FW reveals is learning they are from Forgeworld and therefore useless for kitbashing and insanely overpriced. Resin is an easy miss for me. Plastic is just a better medium all around.

Depends on the kit you're looking at, especially if it doesn't require a GW plastic kit as part of it - and especially if you're only comparing to GW prices, as opposed to other companies on the market.

Most of the human-scale single characters for the likes of Blood Bowl or Necromunda are around the same price point as a GW character clampack these days - when he goes up for pre-order, plastic Darkstrider is likely to be between £20 and £25, for example. A model you're only going to need one of in your collection. Individual human-size Star Players for Blood Bowl range from £19 to £21 at the moment. Necromunda Hired Guns have a little more variation, but the most expensive individual human-scale one looks to be £24, so still cheaper than Jain Zar.

Despite things moving from metal (or Finecast) to plastic, the prices of kits have kept rising, to the point where you can't really call a Forge World kit "insanely overpriced" without doing the same to the GW kits...

Prices regardless of material are a bit silly with the £20 mark for one 32mm for champs and stuff.

GW doesn't want to deal with the wave of returns due to miscasts probably because theres plenty of that in FW.

I mean in my small experience I got like 1 plastic sprue miscast in 2 decades of shopping, while on FW, which I now refuse to buy, theres always been something there to fix with sculpting.

Miscasts are only a problem with really old kits. I've bought some HH and Lotr models recently and they easily beat GW plastics concerning detail and are on par with Artel W and Wargame Exklusive, which I see as the best models available currently.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Miscasts are only a problem with really old kits. I've bought some HH and Lotr models recently and they easily beat GW plastics concerning detail and are on par with Artel W and Wargame Exklusive, which I see as the best models available currently.

Not always - there was a thread recently (that I now can't find) about mold issues with the new AT Armigers.

(And the preview model of the AT Dire Wolf has a few issues, but it might be a prototype- )

beast_gts wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Miscasts are only a problem with really old kits. I've bought some HH and Lotr models recently and they easily beat GW plastics concerning detail and are on par with Artel W and Wargame Exklusive, which I see as the best models available currently.

Not always - there was a thread recently (that I now can't find) about mold issues with the new AT Armigers.

Might be singular issues, just because most "easy to build" models from GW suck and need serious work I wouldn't say all of GWs plastics are crap. But it shouldn't happen in either case for the leading manufacturer with premium prices.

beast_gts wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Miscasts are only a problem with really old kits. I've bought some HH and Lotr models recently and they easily beat GW plastics concerning detail and are on par with Artel W and Wargame Exklusive, which I see as the best models available currently.

Not always - there was a thread recently (that I now can't find) about mold issues with the new AT Armigers.

(And the preview model of the AT Dire Wolf has a few issues, but it might be a prototype

Spoiler:

A prototype would have very diffrent looking issues, given how GW and FW almost universally 3D print their prototypes and master. This seems to be just bog-standard FW quality control.

 NAVARRO wrote:
Prices regardless of material are a bit silly with the £20 mark for one 32mm for champs and stuff.

I'd hope my last paragraph addressed that, but, for the sake of being clear - I don't disagree.

 Dysartes wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
Prices regardless of material are a bit silly with the £20 mark for one 32mm for champs and stuff.

I'd hope my last paragraph addressed that, but, for the sake of being clear - I don't disagree.

Yes sorry my comment was more like an attachment to what you said which I agree with.
Long is the time material would determine the price. Either resin production became cheap or the plastics got a lot more expensive.

To reply to the comment that the FW resins are good now and the past is long gone... Its great to know that but I keep hearing really mixed reviews...

tneva82 wrote:

JWBS wrote:
For the record I prefer plastic, for all the reasons one might think. Back in the day I was willing to go to the extra lengths to make resin work, but these days I generally want minimum frustration in what's supposed to be a relaxing hobby. I still generally put a lot of effort into my painting (which can be frustrating) but I've crossed the line of tolerating it in cleaning / building minis.

Ah yes. Having another glue on shelf is sooooooooooooo stressfull

I take that over bazillion tiny pieces in weird shapes you need to glue to get what resin gets in one piece with better details.

I think it really just depends on the kit.


Regarding FW quality, the last few things I ordered have been excellent. I know that bad QC happens and have experienced it, but overall I think there's a fair amount of hyperbole about their quality or lack thereof.

I just remember getting one of the Razorback expansion kits some years ago. literally two components, a gun barrel and mount, and the mount was bent at about 45 degrees.
I keep imagining whoever was working on that just shrugging and putting it into the plastic bag.

I also remember that it had cost marginally less than a Hasegawa plastic kit, that had over 200 pieces, inc. metal etched parts, and went together with the precision of a swiss watch. Beautiful. And it had been imported all of the way from Japan to the UK.

Really shows the power of market forces and competition in improving quality and driving down prices, and what happens when that isn't present.

 Pacific wrote:
I also remember that it had cost marginally less than a Hasegawa plastic kit, that had over 200 pieces, inc. metal etched parts, and went together with the precision of a swiss watch. Beautiful. And it had been imported all of the way from Japan to the UK.

Really shows the power of market forces and competition in improving quality and driving down prices, and what happens when that isn't present.

I don't really see the two as comparable though. The Hasegawa kit is likely sold in great quantities, probably more than most of GW's more large expensive kits let alone FW's kits. FW is more comparable to the resin upgrade kits you might get from Eduard, or the seatbelt kits from HGW. They can also feel like you're paying a lot for not much.

Not to excuse FW's terrible quality control of course, but it's not just competition and market forces that drive the prices, it's a completely different business model.

Why are they not comparable? Both are modelling kits and facets of a similar hobby. I agree you might be able to make a case for volumes of sale, but a lot of the plastic kits are relatively niche and difficult to obtain - certainly in someone like Hasegawa's case, a lot of the time you are relying on imports and really have to know what you are after. Looking at GW's profits recently and the amount of ubiquity they seem to be obtaining I wouldn't be surprised if they were pretty close in sales volume.

The point I was trying to make was that if I had bought a Hasegawa kit and it was a heap of excrement - poor fitting, innacurate, expensive, because it is the model of an aircraft or tank (and I guess in the public domain) I can probably go to 3 or 4 other kit producers and find one that is better. This is almost certainly what happened in the 70s and 80s, where the introduction of the Japanese kit builders forced the likes of Airfix and Heller to get their act together and improve quality, or go out of the kit making business altogether - more modern releases by Airfix in particular are excellent and that's a direct result of that competition, and all of it means a better experience for consumers.

In FW's case only they can make a Space Marine Land Raider so there is very little impetus at all to provide it at a reasonable cost or ensure that is of good quality, because if I'm a customer and I want those things, it's their way or the highway. Or, the counterfeit way, and as much as I don't agree with it, FW's prices (and quality control) have left the door wide open for both re-casters and 3D printing - that guys producing stuff in their garage and in tiny volumes can make money and still undercut FW by some margin shows what the markup must be on the official products.

Anyway just my thoughts, I don't think there is any way to look at FW prices as being grossly over-inflated for what you are getting, even amongst regular GW offerings, which definitely says something. It feels like FW is in that space held by Airfix in the 80s of being able to release something that's a heap of gak with a cm gap between the wing and fuselage and that's fine, because the mugs can't go anywhere else to get it.

Slow news day information that is logistics level exciting.

 Pacific wrote:
Why are they not comparable? Both are modelling kits and facets of a similar hobby. I agree you might be able to make a case for volumes of sale, but a lot of the plastic kits are relatively niche and difficult to obtain - certainly in someone like Hasegawa's case, a lot of the time you are relying on imports and really have to know what you are after. Looking at GW's profits recently and the amount of ubiquity they seem to be obtaining I wouldn't be surprised if they were pretty close in sales volume.

Sorry I was talking on a per-kit basis. GW is huge, but they also put out dozens of new kits each year, and we're talking specifically about FW here anyway which is a much smaller wing of GW but they still get out quite a few sets each year.

The likes of Hasegawa and Tamiya and whatnot, they put out a small number of kits each year, but each kit they put a lot of work into, they then mass produce a huge number of that one kit in a single hit, then sell a couple of copies of that single kit to thousands of hobby stores across the globe where they sit on shelves if they're not popular or sell out quickly if they are popular. If they were popular, maybe in 1 or 5 or 10 years time they do another big production run. I dunno which Hasegawa kit you're talking about specifically, Hasegawa is pretty widely available over here but OOP kits can obviously be hard to find.

FW on the other hand, design dozens of kits in a year, they make a few copies of each one by hand, they sell them direct to the public (i.e. they're carrying the burden of unsold product, not 3rd party stores), when they sell out they make a handful more, maybe after a while the master gets damaged and they repair it. FW aren't trying to get a few kits out to a worldwide distribution network of hobby stores, they're trying to produce a diverse range of continuously available models sourced directly from the manufacturer.

It'd be like comparing a Chevy to some custom built Hot Rod, the latter is always going to look like a worser deal due to the different business models.

This is almost certainly what happened in the 70s and 80s, where the introduction of the Japanese kit builders forced the likes of Airfix and Heller to get their act together and improve quality, or go out of the kit making business altogether - more modern releases by Airfix in particular are excellent and that's a direct result of that competition, and all of it means a better experience for consumers.

FWIW, GW have massively improved their production quality of plastic kits over the past 20 years also.

In FW's case only they can make a Space Marine Land Raider so there is very little impetus at all to provide it at a reasonable cost or ensure that is of good quality, because if I'm a customer and I want those things, it's their way or the highway. Or, the counterfeit way, and as much as I don't agree with it, FW's prices (and quality control) have left the door wide open for both re-casters and 3D printing - that guys producing stuff in their garage and in tiny volumes can make money and still undercut FW by some margin shows what the markup must be on the official products.

And garage operations have far less overheads. They aren't paying the designers, they aren't paying for a warehouse, they aren't paying for additional staff to do the casting until their business gets big enough to warrant it. Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if most of them aren't paying taxes on their sales Even then, they come and go.

It feels like FW is in that space held by Airfix in the 80s of being able to release something that's a heap of gak with a cm gap between the wing and fuselage and that's fine, because the mugs can't go anywhere else to get it.

At this point I think anyone who buys FW still knows what they're getting themselves in for. If people keep buying it, it says to me the people who buy FW are less concerned about such issues than regular wargamers.

Anyway just my thoughts, I don't think there is any way to look at FW prices as being grossly over-inflated for what you are getting, even amongst regular GW offerings, which definitely says something.

I'm certainly not going to say FW is anything other than overpriced with poor quality control. I just don't see the benefit in comparing apples with oranges. It's just building a straw man for others to break down when we start comparing FW to Airfix or Tamiya or Hasegawa. It's like comparing Mazda to Morgan, sure, they're technically both "car manufacturers", but there's limited value in making more than a surface level a comparison.

Well, they're up. They're same price as from FW, and have a few "warnings" on them:

Resin kit – to be undertaken by confident and experienced Warhammer hobbyists only

This modelling kit is not a toy – it is a collectible item and construction should only be undertaken by expert Warhammer hobbyists aged 15 years and over.

T’au Tiger Shark AX-1-0, XV107 R'varna Battlesuit & XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit

KX139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour - Body, Fusion Eradicator, Tri-axis Ion Cannon, Pulse Ordnance Multi-driver & Nexus Missile System.

beast_gts wrote:
Well, they're up. They're same price as from FW, and have a few "warnings" on them:

Resin kit – to be undertaken by confident and experienced Warhammer hobbyists only

This modelling kit is not a toy – it is a collectible item and construction should only be undertaken by expert Warhammer hobbyists aged 15 years and over.

T’au Tiger Shark AX-1-0, XV107 R'varna Battlesuit & XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit

KX139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour - Body, Fusion Eradicator, Tri-axis Ion Cannon, Pulse Ordnance Multi-driver & Nexus Missile System.

Only on the UK store though? Couldn't find the same items on the Oz or US stores.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Well, they're up. They're same price as from FW, and have a few "warnings" on them:

Resin kit – to be undertaken by confident and experienced Warhammer hobbyists only

This modelling kit is not a toy – it is a collectible item and construction should only be undertaken by expert Warhammer hobbyists aged 15 years and over.

T’au Tiger Shark AX-1-0, XV107 R'varna Battlesuit & XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit

KX139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour - Body, Fusion Eradicator, Tri-axis Ion Cannon, Pulse Ordnance Multi-driver & Nexus Missile System.

Only on the UK store though? Couldn't find the same items on the Oz or US stores.

From the Startpost

* These products will not be available through games-workshop.com in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, or China.

RazorEdge wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Well, they're up. They're same price as from FW, and have a few "warnings" on them:

Resin kit – to be undertaken by confident and experienced Warhammer hobbyists only

This modelling kit is not a toy – it is a collectible item and construction should only be undertaken by expert Warhammer hobbyists aged 15 years and over.

T’au Tiger Shark AX-1-0, XV107 R'varna Battlesuit & XV109 Y'vahra Battlesuit

KX139 Ta'unar Supremacy Armour - Body, Fusion Eradicator, Tri-axis Ion Cannon, Pulse Ordnance Multi-driver & Nexus Missile System.

Only on the UK store though? Couldn't find the same items on the Oz or US stores.

From the Startpost

* These products will not be available through games-workshop.com in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, or China.

Must have missed that when I skimmed over it. If that's the case, is buying direct from FW a problem in the UK anyway? I imagine they'd have reasonably quick shipping within the UK.

Free shipping treshoid lower at gw site and gw site vouchers can be used

It seems a little strange how the descriptions say:

This modelling kit is not a toy – it is a collectible item and construction should only be undertaken by expert Warhammer hobbyists aged 15 years and over.

The wording of this sort of implies they consider their normal GW kits "toys"?

I wouldn't read too much into it.


Seriously I wouldn't, one part of it is just your standard company age rating suggestion. Chances are there's a warning small parts somewhere and other things.


And freaking yes GW stuff is toys. Even most collectable things are just toys.

 Overread wrote:
I wouldn't read too much into it.


Seriously I wouldn't, one part of it is just your standard company age rating suggestion. Chances are there's a warning small parts somewhere and other things.


And freaking yes GW stuff is toys. Even most collectable things are just toys.

I've not really seen model kits referred to as toys before, outside of something like Revell's "build and play" stuff.

RazorEdge wrote:

From the Startpost

* These products will not be available through games-workshop.com in the USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, or China.

Yeah, they apparently had to add the caveat...but they didn't add it until Wednesday it looks like. Buncha gits.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

 Overread wrote:
I wouldn't read too much into it.


Seriously I wouldn't, one part of it is just your standard company age rating suggestion. Chances are there's a warning small parts somewhere and other things.


And freaking yes GW stuff is toys. Even most collectable things are just toys.

I've not really seen model kits referred to as toys before, outside of something like Revell's "build and play" stuff.

Someone clearly does since model kits from various companies were offered in ToysRUs and still are in the toy sections of Walmarts and Targets.

I believe it’s a legal thing here in the UK; toys have a lot of very stringent regulations to make sure they’re not a choking hazard, poisonous, flammable, etc. You can sidestep all of those by putting “not a toy” on your product.

tneva82 wrote:

JWBS wrote:
For the record I prefer plastic, for all the reasons one might think. Back in the day I was willing to go to the extra lengths to make resin work, but these days I generally want minimum frustration in what's supposed to be a relaxing hobby. I still generally put a lot of effort into my painting (which can be frustrating) but I've crossed the line of tolerating it in cleaning / building minis.

Ah yes. Having another glue on shelf is sooooooooooooo stressfull

I take that over bazillion tiny pieces in weird shapes you need to glue to get what resin gets in one piece with better details.

This is a good point, the new plastics are terrible to build! A bazillion tiny pieces that you can't just figure out what order or where they go without following the instructions. Resin minis are more like old times plastics most of the time, you glue an arm, a weapon, a backpack and you are done. None of this 3B is part of the middle finger of the left hand crap.

 Illumini wrote:

This is a good point, the new plastics are terrible to build! A bazillion tiny pieces that you can't just figure out what order or where they go without following the instructions. Resin minis are more like old times plastics most of the time, you glue an arm, a weapon, a backpack and you are done. None of this 3B is part of the middle finger of the left hand crap.

Seconded, I built the Necron Psychomancer a couple of weeks back and it was nightmare, so many tiny components that needed to be fitted just right, with very limited locking points to let you feel when the part was in the right place, and sometimes sprue attachment points on the joins, which means they are nicely hidden but you have to get the join filed to exactly the right shape to get it to fit cleanly (too little off and it doesn't sit flush, too much of and you lose what little locking there was and potentially end up with a gap). Plus the long multipart tentacles that were built in sections and which both had to eventually end up lined up perfectly where they joined up again! I don't think you'd have a chance without the instructions.

Compared to a FW Warlord Titan, which obviously took work due to the size and the need to pin/clean-up, but really obvious how pieces went together and I reckon you could build it easily enough without the instructions and just a picture of the finished model (A.K.A. an old style forgeworld instruction sheet), only tricky bit would probably be working out which pistons were which!

 Illumini wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

JWBS wrote:
For the record I prefer plastic, for all the reasons one might think. Back in the day I was willing to go to the extra lengths to make resin work, but these days I generally want minimum frustration in what's supposed to be a relaxing hobby. I still generally put a lot of effort into my painting (which can be frustrating) but I've crossed the line of tolerating it in cleaning / building minis.

Ah yes. Having another glue on shelf is sooooooooooooo stressfull

I take that over bazillion tiny pieces in weird shapes you need to glue to get what resin gets in one piece with better details.

This is a good point, the new plastics are terrible to build! A bazillion tiny pieces that you can't just figure out what order or where they go without following the instructions. Resin minis are more like old times plastics most of the time, you glue an arm, a weapon, a backpack and you are done. None of this 3B is part of the middle finger of the left hand crap.

yes, I guess if the hand has fingers at all! (or webbed fingers is another one)

I got the Warpath starter a while ago and that was probably one of the nicest designed plastic kits I have seen from GW. All of the bits fit together beautifully, and you had very specific instructions included. Think this would definitely have appealed to the Boardgamegeek crowd as I think even someone with no experience at all of kit building would have been able to assemble with little trouble. The downside, obviously you don't have the range of options, can't pose the miniatures etc.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
Miscasts are only a problem with really old kits. I've bought some HH and Lotr models recently and they easily beat GW plastics concerning detail and are on par with Artel W and Wargame Exklusive, which I see as the best models available currently.

Sure, just old...

Like the Dire Wolf.

Take a look at the AT armigers people has gotten on the AT threads, and get back to us.