Hello my fellow Norn-Queens and Norn-Kings!

Our new codex is out and it's time for the scattered hive minds from across the galaxy to reconvene here and now to sort it all out!

Which hive fleet excites you the most and why? Do you ever plan to switch out the hyper-adaptations for the ones on our 3 tables? Which units really speak out to you?

I for one have been enjoying the Tervigon and gant spam as Leviathan. However I'm finding monster spam even without stampede to do so well. How about you?

Finally someone try and convince me the Shardgullet isn't the best relic we have. 15 damage is crazy.

I've had a blast so far, the codex is obviously incredibly good. The fact is there really isn't any bad units or units I would never take.

I'm most excited for Behemoth and Levithan. I've only played with Levi so far, but I am going to mix it up with some Behemoth.

As for the best relic? Reaper of Obliterax on a Hive Tyrant is just insanely good. My test games with Shardgullet has been... okay. Maybe if Knights really start to become a thing, but honestly they are better dealt with in Melee anyway.

I'm just amazed that my copy of the Tyranid Codex arrived. On a Sunday. Easter Sunday. In a country where it's not on sale yet.

Figure that one out...

The MW output is insane. A monster charges, stratagem, MW. A harpy flies over something, MW. A hive tyrant wounds something in melee with a relic, MW. Maleceptor does his psychic action, and three psychic powers with stratagem, MW. Neurothropes cast with 3D6, a lot of MW. Neurothropes cast (possible super) smite with 3D6 MW, +3MW. Tyranids are able to output 30-40 MW per turn, thats way too much.

The most reliable way to dump mass mortal wounds is to use the Neurothropes Command Phase buff on the Maleceptor I think, so you can reliably get it's 7+ rolls.Then, the Leviathan Psychic power lets you use it's Imperative on itself multiple turns, to keep doing the Action + Psyker powers.

Getting wrecked by coinflip invulns in my last game really made me want to lean in to Mortals harder.

First game playing with the new codex actually in my hand.

Weird thing in case you didn't notice. The flyrant has a save of 3. The walkrant has a save of 2s. The heck?

It also has T7 instead of the T8 Walkrant has. I figure it's meant to differentiate them more, one being the faster mobile tricky version, and the other is a more sturdy beatstick.

It's meant to punish the Flyrant from the time when it was dominant at the start of 8th and you could bring 5 or more of them in a single army.

GW still feels the need to over-balance things that haven't been relevant for whole editions.

Although in fairness that is how it worked in some earlier editions (4th and 5th), where giving a tyrant wings or a 2+ save were mutually exclusive upgrades.
Having to pick between heavy armour or a lighter frame capable of flight makes sense to me.

I think it's more that the Flyrant has the standard Hive Tyrant physiology but the walking dude has been given upgraded armour, skeleton, etc.to make him more durable.

From a game play perspective I'm fine with the slower, cannon-toting walker vs the faster, lighter variant.

(As an aside, I think the double HVC or Stranglethorn Cannon is an intentional loadout.)

But, as Arson Fire says, this isn't a new difference between the two.

If you want to complain about odd stats might I suggest Old One Eye having a lower Strength than a regular Lictor.

But anyway....a sort of question. I drunkenly ordered two harpy kits from GW last week. I'm planning to magnetize but I'm really wondering if I'll ever field two harpies or a harpy and a crone. Have folks played games with them? Are they useful without being oppressive.

Interested to hear folks thoughts on Toxin Sacs. I think for some units the upgrade cost does outweigh the 'more bodies' approach.

For example, on a unit of twenty hormagaunts the cost is two and a half extra models, which isn't going to make a huge difference to the unit's performance.

However, Hormies have A3, low S and Swarming Masses. That's a lot of low quality attacks. Every six rolled means I'm bypassing the 50/50 or 40/60 to wound roll against T3 or T4 targets (common values). Against things with higher Toughness like Orks, other Tyranids and vehicles that's a significant barrier.

So, in isolation, it's a worthwhile trade, but that twenty points could be spent on an upgrade for a Tyrannofex, or something.

As an aside, I am surprised that Toxin Sacs affect vehicles. I get that it could be a mix of acid and venom...but generally 'poison effects' in 40K don't work against vehicles. I can see this being errata-ed.

Harpies are very oppresive. Source: My own thought in the datasheet. And Tactical Tortoise after testing many games in cometetive lists with them.

The heavy venom cannon is very good. 2 of them on a chassie you can not hide from is very cheap. If it gets to far into trouble just do encircle the pray to put it in deep strike.

Their one downside is how fragile they are. It can be midigated by transhuman and zoanthrope buff.

In a cassual game thei either dies fast and throws the game for you. Or they live and they throw the game for your opponent. I would thik twice before putting them in cassual lists, and think twice before not putting at leats one in a competetive list.

You can give a Harpy an upgrade to a 4++ save, that and -1 to hit does help a bit in survival terms.

You can also give it Synapse, which opens up all sorts of fun avenues.

I thought about playing a harpy which can heroically intervene 6". But that would mean you cant give it SYNAPSE, or 4++. Its an AIRCRAFT, and there is nothing in the rules prohibiting that. You could tie up a shooty unit in melee, and they cant attack you, unless they have FLY, and they cant shoot you, unless they have pistols. You cant attack them either, but that doesnt matter much. As an AIRCRAFT you dont need to fallback, just make a normal move and shoot normally.

Just got 6 carnifexes that I'll be magnetizing. I'm torn between making them screamer-killers w/adrenal glands for those 10 s7 attacks, or making them regular fexes with enhanced senses + hvc for a more well rounded build.

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Just got 6 carnifexes that I'll be magnetizing. I'm torn between making them screamer-killers w/adrenal glands for those 10 s7 attacks, or making them regular fexes with enhanced senses + hvc for a more well rounded build.

Screamer Killers do not disappoint. I’ve been regularly playing with three during my test games before the codex dropped and they punch above their points. Back them up with some venomthropes and spore cysts and they shine.I’ve been trying them out with a Tervigon in the list and usually turn two I’m using the +2 move imperative to all out assault with them. Old One Eye is an absolute beast as well.


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 Sasori wrote:
As for the best relic? Reaper of Obliterax on a Hive Tyrant is just insanely good. My test games with Shardgullet has been... okay. Maybe if Knights really start to become a thing, but honestly they are better dealt with in Melee anyway.

I agree with this. The Reaper is amazing even without Stampede. I won’t be surprised if GW bans Stampede from tournament play. Having the new Leviathan Biology mixed with BoB book and Stampede I even admit is a little too good. It will be fun while it lasts.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
It's meant to punish the Flyrant from the time when it was dominant at the start of 8th and you could bring 5 or more of them in a single army.

GW still feels the need to over-balance things that haven't been relevant for whole editions.

It's not "Overbalanced" at all. This actually works out really well, and gives some reason to take the Walkrant. If the Flyrant had T8 and a 2+ save you'd never see one.

and in practice I can say the Flyrant is still absolutely incredible.

And Yeah, Harpies are incredibly good. I expect them to get a point hike at some point. Loading one up with synapse for the Transhuman in levi and the other with the 4++ makes them very survivable.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I'm just amazed that my copy of the Tyranid Codex arrived. On a Sunday. Easter Sunday. In a country where it's not on sale yet.

Figure that one out...

Someone love you.

So I'm going to play a crusade, and we are starting with patrol sized games.

Any suggestions on what to take? I'm really tempted in bringing a harpy just for that experience bonus.

So, I'm not too familiar with Crusade yet, I've only glanced the core rules and read through the tyranid specific rules once over, but, it realls seems like you're encouraged to take different units at different stages of the Planetary consumption phases. Some units flat out don't get experience at certain stages, and some units gain bonus experience. As well, there's tools to take one unit in your list, swap it with another unit, but keep all the experience you had.

And, I'm not sure how to feel about that. Sure, it's fluffy and seems cool, but, not being able to play a list or theme I want because I won't rank certain units up until the middle/end phases doesn't seem great. And it could take 3-6 WINNING games until you're able to get to that tier of consumption, depending on the planet you rolled.

 p5freak wrote:
I thought about playing a harpy which can heroically intervene 6". But that would mean you cant give it SYNAPSE, or 4++. Its an AIRCRAFT, and there is nothing in the rules prohibiting that. You could tie up a shooty unit in melee, and they cant attack you, unless they have FLY, and they cant shoot you, unless they have pistols. You cant attack them either, but that doesnt matter much. As an AIRCRAFT you dont need to fallback, just make a normal move and shoot normally.

That unit can just make a normal move or advance next turn though, as they can ignore aircraft in engagement range when they don't have fly. Which means they can then shoot as normal.

If, when a unit is selected to move in the Movement phase, the only enemy models that are within Engagement Range of it are Aircraft, then it can still make a Normal Move or an Advance (i.e. it does not have to Fall Back or Remain Stationary).

By the way, super busy this week but I'm off next week. I'll actually do a real adult break down of the codex and a ranking system.

Of course if anyone wants to add input into it, let me know. I win most of my games as a nid player but I'm def not a top competitor

Speaking of Heroic Intervention. I'm struggling to find the answers to a few questions on Google.

Mawloc and Terrors from the Deep to pop out over 1" away from an enemy potentially.

Hunt Morphology to Heroically intervene as if it were a character.

Is this allowed? Can you use Heroic Interventions on your own turn? Is there some other rule I'm missing that would prevent this? I'm just working my way back in to 40k after 3-ish years. Lots of rules to re-learn and all that.

 Thadin wrote:
Speaking of Heroic Intervention. I'm struggling to find the answers to a few questions on Google.

Mawloc and Terrors from the Deep to pop out over 1" away from an enemy potentially.

Hunt Morphology to Heroically intervene as if it were a character.

Is this allowed? Can you use Heroic Interventions on your own turn? Is there some other rule I'm missing that would prevent this? I'm just working my way back in to 40k after 3-ish years. Lots of rules to re-learn and all that.

No.

No unit can perform more than one Heroic Intervention in each enemy Charge phase. A unit can never perform a Heroic Intervention in their own Charge phase.

Appreciated, reading is hard apparently.

To that end, how are people feeling on Mawlocs? Terror from the Deep seems easy to play around, but the play-around solution is still disruptive to plans potentially. WITHIN 12" of the marker is a massive footprint for it to pop up in, and the 6" marker mortal wounds could force a castle to move, or discourage someone from moving in to an objective? Use it to get Engage on All fronts?

Also finding that 9" charges haven't been too hard for my list. I've got plenty of Synapse Unit shooting to ping units with Shardlure.

What are the preferred builds right now for the Tyrant, both walker and flyrant? I've heard for the Walker taking both Talons and Sword/Whip so you can swap the talons for the Maw relic and get rerolls to hit and wound. But that seems like a waste of the 2+ BS. And for the Flyrant you have to choose between a gun or some sort of melee weapons (Flyrant Talons are apparently addictional attacks and don't affect your mains ones), so I would think maybe stick with Sword/whip to keep the reroll to hit.

Flyrant with sword relic and Walkrant with either cannon relic seem to be the preferred build.

Not a Flyrant with the Shardgullet? I'd've thought the manoeuvrability afforded by the wings would make him a good spot for that, getting LOS on things easily?

Flyrants want to be charging and killing stuff so they get to abuse overrun.

Fast and mobile firepower is done better and cheaper by the harpy (and with a few defensive buffs are more durable than a flyrant).

You say that as if GW isn't going to nerf the Harpy into oblivion come the next FAQ/update.

They should, it is the most broken unit in the game right now.

But that still leaves us with a few months of Harpy domination.

The most broken unit is the Maleceptor with its 15-20MW output each psychic phase.

The Maleceptor is a short range model and that 15-20 MW requires a combo. On its own only puts 6-9 mortal wounds each phase.

Sure it is strong, but tournament winning lists only have one Maleceptor as their efficiency drops with numbers, and some don't even have them because the harpy is better.

 Tyran wrote:
Flyrant with sword relic and Walkrant with either cannon relic seem to be the preferred build.

Are you still giving a sword whip to the walkrant or leaving him with talons?

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
Flyrant with sword relic and Walkrant with either cannon relic seem to be the preferred build.

Are you still giving a sword whip to the walkrant or leaving him with talons?

Kinda depends on the matchup to be honest.

Talons are great for W2 targets (standard marines), but the sword is better against harder targets.

Although IMHO I prefer the sword.

Is it worth giving the Prime a VC/BS now that it can finally be equipped with one?

Yes, IMHO a Prime should always have a VC

 Ferrum_Sanguinis wrote:
Is it worth giving the Prime a VC/BS now that it can finally be equipped with one?

Unless you accidently build a list that has to shed points somewhere by a little, vc is a really good addition to the prime. Plus if you're like me and probably 90% of the other tyrranid players out there... you probably accidently built a prime with a cannon anyway.

Well. I finally got some time to plow through the new codex. Wow! I am very happy overall.

Some of the lesser known Fleets now look good, and I look forward to trying them out. Early winners: Fly'rant with Reaper my winged assassain returns! Tyrant Guard, bare bones or kitted, make for a solid base for Winged tyrants to over run to, and. or foot tyrants to fire from.

I am very happy to try out a Tervigon and a Brood of 24-30 Termagants to hold the middle, and regen models. Hormagaunts look good again. Both as a screen, and an anti-screen. They can perform missions off in corners when they are shot down in numbers as well.

The new fleets I ma most eager to try are Hydra, putting Regen on the Tervigon. And Gorgon with wound on 4's making Horm-rush a thing!

I think Carnifexen are good units both as beat-stick, and shooty, or a combo of both. Jormangandr Gun-line might be back? (Gun fexen)


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Before this Codex the "way" to win with Nids was to max the secondaries and win on points. I think it may have flipped, and now we need to max the primaries. We look to be super good at holding the center, and that normally gives good primaries. We used to be good at popping out in corners and doing actions.


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So my basic "frame-work" for building a list right now is:

Winged Tyrant, with Reaper (Enraged reserves is points allow) Adrenal

Tervigon: Relic possable based on Fleet....(Psychic Shriek if Hydra)

Troops

Warriors x3-5 a cannon
(Prime with a cannon, no slot required)
Termagants x24-30
Hormagaunts x10

Elites Zoeys x3
Neurothrope ( no slot required)(Warlord)
Venothropes x3


Then most likely for Tourney play a Patrol with a Walk'rant, cannon/ Shardgullet
Tyrant guard (no slot required)

and filler as needed...

for Heavies I think Carnifexen are good, and I still love my Acid Tyrannofex.

Hiveguard got a solid nerf, and so I will likely only think of them with Kronos as the extra range and adaption will help them.

Do biovores create free spore mines?

I believe so.

 CKO wrote:
Do biovores create free spore mines?

One unit in your army can take an action to make some each turn. We no longer get them on a miss. And they are still free.

So the IA Compendium got an FAQ.

Good news? They didn't suddenly make our Hierodules into Lords of War. Was worried about that.

Bad news? The Stonecrusher Carnifex appears to have been completely forgotten:

1. It hasn't gained Core.
2. Doesn't have Death Throes.
3. Doesn't have WS3+.
4. Didn't go up to 9 wounds.
5. Didn't get a 2+ Save.
6. Didn't gain the Armoured Exoskeleton rule.
7. Didn't gain the Blistering Assault rule.
8. Didn't gain any extra attacks when all the other 'Fexes did.
9. Doesn't have the Thornback keyword (or access to it) which it probably should.

Ouch...

New guy looking to start a Tyranid army. Question on the Screamer-killer. They have 4 screamer-killer talons and a base on 10 melee attacks, so does that mean it has 40 attacks? 44 on the turn it charged? Same applies for any other model which has multiple melee weapons too, assuming this is true.

need2thump wrote:
New guy looking to start a Tyranid army. Question on the Screamer-killer. They have 4 screamer-killer talons and a base on 10 melee attacks, so does that mean it has 40 attacks? 44 on the turn it charged? Same applies for any other model which has multiple melee weapons too, assuming this is true.

For the most part you pick one of your melee weapons and make all of your attacks with it. Having multiple different ones just gets you more options.

The big exception to this is some of them tell you to make additional attacks with the weapon. You get those as a bonus on top of your normal attacks. They tell you how many extras you get, not the creatures full A value.

To clarify, "all of your attacks" refers to the number of attacks on the model's Attacks characteristic, along with whatever additional attacks they gain from special rules in their datasheet or weapon profiles.

So, using screamer-killers and a regular carnifex with 4 talons as examples:

A screamer-killer makes 11 attacks on the charge - it has 10 attacks in it's profile, and gets a bonus attack the turn it charges from blistering assault. You resolve these attacks with the profile for screamer-killer talons - technically you're selecting one of the four but they're all identical so it doesn't matter which you use.

A carnifex with 4 talons makes 9 attacks on the charge - it has 4 attacks, gets a bonus attack the turn it charges from blistering assault, and each carnifex scything talon grants an additional attack specifically with that weapon (so an extra 4). Now in this case as with the screamer-killer all attacks are resolved with the same scything talon profile, but it's important to note that the bonus attacks for the talons are specifically only made with the talon profile. If we used a different example, a carnifex with 2 crushing claws and 2 talons, you would make a choice of which weapon to use, and 5 attacks would be made with that profile, but 2 attacks specifically only with the talons.

Lastly, you are allowed to make your attacks with any combination of weapons you like. So once again using our 2 crushing claws, 2 talon carnifex example, you could decide to only make 2 attacks with the claws (or 3 or 4) and the remaining attacks with the talons (and the 2 bonus attacks with the talons as well).

Thanks for the clarification, guess my dreams of running a screamer-killer with 40 attacks was too good to be true

need2thump wrote:
Thanks for the clarification, guess my dreams of running a screamer-killer with 40 attacks was too good to be true

Lucky for you they should do fine with the tons of attacks they actually get.

Might not be the most broken thing in the book, but your opponent will know when he gets charged by one…

So a few thoughts on the new nid dex / FAQ change / upcoming harpy nerf.

The Maley is no longer absolutely bonkers, I'm dissappointed its action economy imperative got hit too.

I *think* it is still good/great with some support. The things it lost are resources you now can spend elsewhere which should always be an important consideration when looking at buffs/nerf. In terms of what it can do, reliably cast two things (with support), each thing dealing a free 3MW within 12". A great centre board tank "distraction carnifex".

Maley + Biovores are a potential power move! The new wording to drones makes exploding them much easier + they still have decent board control.

The harpy may going to get +25-40pts more expensive, if there is a further balance. So optimistically aim to cut 50pts from your list and retain the Big Birds.

Two big birds + biovores double-dropping withn an action + shooting... Welcome to the Spore Fields!

I despise them using FAQs to change rules.

Correct ambiguities, correct mistakes, fix things that are functionally broken.

Do not change rules.

Razerous wrote:
Maley + Biovores are a potential power move! The new wording to drones makes exploding them much easier + they still have decent board control.

what new "wording"? biovores suck now, or am I missing something?

Sporemines (from strat, harpies or biovores) now explode much more easily = if you end your move near an enemy or if an enemy unit ends near you or having moved near you during its movement . Then it's on average a mortal wound per mine.

The biovores themselves causes a MW on 4+ D3 times, per bug. That's okay. The action launches D3 mines per biovore.

Biovores can perform an action and then shoot, with the help of the recently nerfed Malenceptor. That pushes them into decent I think! Edit: Can only double-up once, as the imperative is one-use and biovores are core to benefit from the Hive Nexus ability. Damn!

Deployable board control is great. Even though the mines are pass-throughable during a movement they still have a footprint which you'd have to shoot or charge to remove.

Razerous wrote:
Sporemines (from strat, harpies or biovores) now explode much more easily = if you end your move near an enemy or if an enemy unit ends near you or having moved near you during its movement . Then it's on average a mortal wound per mine.

The biovores themselves causes a MW on 4+ D3 times, per bug. That's okay. The action launches D3 mines per biovore.

Biovores can perform an action and then shoot, with the help of the recently nerfed Malenceptor. That pushes them into decent I think! Edit: Can only double-up once, as the imperative is one-use and biovores are core to benefit from the Hive Nexus ability. Damn!

Deployable board control is great. Even though the mines are pass-throughable during a movement they still have a footprint which you'd have to shoot or charge to remove.

With the new "-1 to hit if you shoot indirect"- rule biovores are even worse than before. And with before, I mean 6 weeks ago. Even when you could combine a spore mine action with shooting it's not that great. Spore mines were better before because the could assault and then explode right away. And even then you would use them primarly for blocking movement.

Harpy's are great because the can simply drop them on a enemy unit and can provide a decent 3+ mortal wounds right away. even when the are not flying over an enemy unit the could just drop 3 mines for free. It is a great bonus but not why you pick harpy's.

In theory you could have a unit of 3 biovores just drop spore mines over objectives or bottlenecks and force the enemy player to take mortal wounds if they want to score. Probably not particularly competitive, but may work.

Also I'm so bothered that their launcher is not blast.

 Tyran wrote:
In theory you could have a unit of 3 biovores just drop spore mines over objectives or bottlenecks and force the enemy player to take mortal wounds if they want to score. Probably not particularly competitive, but may work.

Also I'm so bothered that their launcher is not blast.

Only one biovore unit can do this, right? so not really a lot of mines.

shogun wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
In theory you could have a unit of 3 biovores just drop spore mines over objectives or bottlenecks and force the enemy player to take mortal wounds if they want to score. Probably not particularly competitive, but may work.

Also I'm so bothered that their launcher is not blast.

Only one biovore unit can do this, right? so not really a lot of mines.

it still is 3D3 mines on pretty much anywhere you might want on the table. Although wouldn't recommend taking more than one biovore unit.

Has anyone found a good way to field genestealers in the new book? They make up the bulk of my 'nid collection, but they seem kind of slow and fragile for their cost. Plus, their reduced unit size and move out of the troop slot means I'll struggle to legally field all of mine in a list AND they'll be competing with other elites. :(

Maybe they have a future as mid-field objective minders? Or expensive turn 1 charge gamblers? Or should I invest in the GSC book instead of the new 'nid 'dex?

I was using them as MSU before the new Codex, and I think you still can use then that way (Brood x5-6) put it in a Patrol etc and add in your second Tyrant.

No longer troops though. D:

True,true, But x6 Elite can still do actions like gather data, and are dead killy vs other MSU.


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And...you can put x10 with a Broodlord that takes no slot, and creep them forward for a turn one charge.

pinecone77 wrote:
True,true, But x6 Elite can still do actions like gather data, and are dead killy vs other MSU.


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And...you can put x10 with a Broodlord that takes no slot, and creep them forward for a turn one charge.

Yeah. That's kind of where I landed on them. Either keep them cheap and use them for actions/scoring, or just gamble on getting first turn. Is a bare bones squad cheap enough to be used as a sacrificial action unit though? They're not as cheap as the units I'm used to using in that role with other armies.

I have seen them do well as MSU and they can bully any light weight units them come across. 75 to 90 is not so expensive.

Hey there tyranid players, quick question:

Do Carnifexes in a Crusher Stampede get -2 damage reduction? (-1 from hulking behemoth and -1 for armored exoskeleton)

That seems CRAZY powerful right now...

Crusher Stampede isn't legal in tournaments. And even if it were, Armored Exoskeleton explicitly doesn't stack with other sources of Damage reduction.

The Reaper of Obliterax says “ Each time an attack is made with this weapon is allocated to an enemy model, that model cannot use any rules to ignore the wounds it loses”.

Does that mean the enemy model doesn’t even get a save of any type?

It means they don't get FNP type saves.

Tyranid Warriors - if they have dual bone swords, does that mean they get 5 attacks? 3 base and one for each bone sword. Also, if they are equipped with dual bone swords and 2 scything talon, is the attack profile 7? Bone sword - 3 base + 2 and 2 from the talons?

need2thump wrote:
Tyranid Warriors - if they have dual bone swords, does that mean they get 5 attacks? 3 base and one for each bone sword. Also, if they are equipped with dual bone swords and 2 scything talon, is the attack profile 7? Bone sword - 3 base + 2 and 2 from the talons?

Dual boneswords, unlike the Bonesword and Lashwhip weapons they replace, are not two separate wargear profiles but 1. So you get a single bonus attack for being equipped with Dual boneswords, giving you 4 attacks, 1 of which must be made with the dual boneswords. A Warrior with dual boneswords and 2 scything talons makes 3 attacks +1 with dual boneswords +2 with scything talons (as the talons are separate wargear profiles and thus each grant a bonus attack, unlike the boneswords).

Thanks for the clarification!!

My question is.. would pyrovores be worth it if they went to 40ppm?

And how good, exactly, is a hive tyrant at +20pts?

I'm playing some games over the weekend, and I'm really torn on whether to just bring a Barbed and Scythed Hierodule 'cause they're fun, or spend the points on more rational choices...

Razerous wrote:
And how good, exactly, is a hive tyrant at +20pts?

Doesn't matter. The cost of the Hive Tyrant will continue to rise until people just stop using it, and even then it will probably still go up. We will never stop paying for the effectiveness it had at the start of the previous edition.

And I don't think that quote of mine, funny as it may be, is relevant anymore. We actually have a good Codex now.

I recently played a game and had really hard time against an eldar list. Rough version:

Wraithknight (with wraithcannons),
2 wraithlords (one melee, one shooty)
2 squads of swooping hawks,
3 squads of guardians,
wave serpent
Dire avengers
Far seer, warlocks.
Wraith Knight was horrible, deleting a big monster each turn. It sat behind guardian screens and I couldn't get to it. Generally, prefer swarm tactics, but 100 odd gaunts didn't really make an impact on the game. Also took swarmed, but again, wasn't really able to get it fast enough forwards.
Thoughts or advice would appreciated.

Anybody who has a breakdown of the changes? The points that is.

 Niiai wrote:
Anybody who has a breakdown of the changes? The points that is.

Carnifex +15
Deathleaper +25(!) base
Exocrine +30 base
Harpy +15 base, +10 per HVC (so from 170 to 205 for the standard build)
Hive Tyrant +20 base
Maleceptor +50
OOE +15
Pyrovore +10
Raveners +5
Screamer Killer +15
Swarmlord +20
Thornbacks +15
Warriors +5 (no wargear changes)
Tyrannocyte +10(!)
Tyrannofex no base change, Acid goes from +5 to +20
Winged Hive Tyrant +20 base

Also Hive Crone +10 and Stone Crusher Carnifex +15.

Thanks for the breakdown. That is a lot of increases. But considering how tyranids have dominated the meta according to the results it might not be that bad.

Our artillery pieces all went up it seems. Perhaps hive guards look better now? Or rupture cannon tyranofex.

Did all the HVC increase? Or just the harpy cannons?

Gaunts and parasite of mortrex looks more exciting. And if the FW models where left untouched the Scythed hierodule looks less bad.




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Hive Crone up 10? Did it ever do anything bad?

Boy howdy, it looks like GW did their usual over correction. It will take a while to see if some new builds can keeps us competitive.

So are biovores worth taking at all anymore? I used to bring two almost every game. Now they seem next to useless. Am I missing something?

More than one unit is not great, but one unit of 3 is quite good to put 3D3 spore mines on objectives.

pinecone77 wrote:
Boy howdy, it looks like GW did their usual over correction. It will take a while to see if some new builds can keeps us competitive.

The points changes are annoying. The Maleceptor change was unnecessary given the FAQ nerfs. The Hive Tyrant increase is exactly as I predicted further up the page; it won't be our last increase there. The Carnifex ones I get, but 15 was too much. The Tyranid Warrior one is the worst, as it all but ensures that the only combo worth taking is 2 Swords/Deathspitter. The Harpy 100% needed to go up. The Tyrannocyte one is weird. Increasing Swarmy and One Eye just because they put up Tyrants and 'Fexes was stupid.

But ultimately these changes are minor, because the bigger changes were the three changes we got shafted with in the balance slate.

1. HT always has to be the Warlord. Ok, not the end of the world, except...
2. ... if our Warlord dies we can't use Synaptic Imperatives. This is in the same update that made Necron protocols all-game affairs that can be used from any character.

... and worst of all...

3. Our Adaptive Physiology is no longer adaptive, as we have to choose it when making a list, thereby defeating the entire fething point of the rule.

The first one is annoying. The second one is crippling. That last one is galling.

I agree that was the one "cool thing" I guess innovation and creative spirit are "bad"

 Tyran wrote:
More than one unit is not great, but one unit of 3 is quite good to put 3D3 spore mines on objectives.

I suppose I will need to find another one. I still use the old metal models, and only have two. Actually one of the few metal models I don't feel cheesy using, besides lictors. Just don't like the size difference, but to each their own. Are the spore mines really that useful? it still seems like a waste of points and CP. What am I missing?

 Lord Blackscale wrote:

 Tyran wrote:
More than one unit is not great, but one unit of 3 is quite good to put 3D3 spore mines on objectives.

I suppose I will need to find another one. I still use the old metal models, and only have two. Actually one of the few metal models I don't feel cheesy using, besides lictors. Just don't like the size difference, but to each their own. Are the spore mines really that useful? it still seems like a waste of points and CP. What am I missing?

Free 30-90 points per turn that can be used to block enemy units away from objectives or force them to eat 4-10 mortal wounds. 3 Biovores are basically going to pay for themselves in free models after 3 rounds of seeding.

I'd say a single biovore will also do much the same - its only D3 spores but after a few turns of massing a clump up, you can force area denial as whilst the enemy can move through the spores, they still can't end within 1". And combine that with the potential spores you'll be placing with a harpy or two, a single biovore is probably enough.

Sorry everyone I know I promised a meta list but life has been.... super busy. Havent played competitively since the nerfs.

Whats everyone running now that is performing really well? I know it's not "meta", but I'm glad the tyrgon and gant spam hasn't been touched. It's been so fun/oppressive

If anyone does want to make a meta breakdown I'll copy it onto the OP. If not you'll have to wait until I have time between work and my videos @.@

Kya_Vess wrote:
Sorry everyone I know I promised a meta list but life has been.... super busy. Havent played competitively since the nerfs.

Whats everyone running now that is performing really well? I know it's not "meta", but I'm glad the tyrgon and gant spam hasn't been touched. It's been so fun/oppressive

If anyone does want to make a meta breakdown I'll copy it onto the OP. If not you'll have to wait until I have time between work and my videos @.@

I hope things get straightened out soon! The Hive Mind waits, ever hungering.

Several tourneys have been played and Tyranids are still doing well, though no longer smashing everything they go against. You can check several sources for lists or use You tube. One that really warmed my heart was someone who shared my love for Tervigon with Termigants, the others were pretty much the same as always, just adjusted for points. Shooty Nids seem to be not a thing right now though.

Define shooty nids.

Warriors, harpies tyrannofexes, exocrines and biovores are quite shooty and still have a notable presence on tournaments.

Kronos, Hive Guard, and shooty Tyrants. Now adays its Reaper Tyrant and Warriors, often without a shooter at all.

If you are not putting guns on warriors then you are doing it wrong.

Hive Guard are crap, but you can make pretty much any other shooty nid work.

https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-innovations-in-9th-the-tyranid-is-somehow-still-in-effect-pt-2/

Here are some results from Goonhammer. Very nice variance in lists, and lots of good results! Even a Shooty list,and Jormangandr!

Hi guys, not sure where to post it so i'm going for here.
With our local gaming group, we plan to do a 2V2 tournament. Every player brings 1K, so it's a 2K in total.
of course no buffing each other, and so on
tournamentslogan: go hard and bring beers or go home.

So i was thinking about trying to win through board control and troop spam with tyranids. My buddy can do the same with necron focussed on reanimating his troops, so we have a huge army of respawning/reanimating models.
my initial idea was hive fleet jormungandr (for the dense cover) with exoskeletal reinforcement (ap1 =0), and 2 tervigons and 3 blobs gaunts.
When i get rid of a couple of gaunts per blob, thats 1K. Nice.

Only issue is: No anti tank.
I see 3 options: ignore the anti tank, and ignore the enemy tanks. but if we face a pile of dreadnoughts we will have a hard time.
I can add a tyranofex with rupture cannon, or an exocrine (of course with adaptive biology dermic symbiosis 4+ invul, as this wil be a target priority of the enemy). But adding a big model like this kind of beats the idea of the list with buckets of respawning models, and it gives lascannons targets they will otherwise not have. My tervigons will be "untargettable" early in the game, as i try to keep at least 2 gauntblobs closeby to "look out tervi" them.

The trade for antitank also comes at a cost of +/- a blob gaunts or a tervigon (and 10 gaunt spawn), so a heavy trade.

So what would you guys do, i have a hard time making a decision here:

1)stay with the plan, ignore tanks, and ignore anti tank (with the extra 2x10gaunts, it's 101 gaunts on 1K points)
2) bring a tyranofex, trade for gaunts
3) bring a tyranofex, trade for tervigon
4)bring a exocrine, trade for gaunts
5)bring a exocrine, trade for tervigon

Thanks!

Well, you have a few choices...1) Just swarm the Dreads and hope to spawn faster than he kills. 2) Drop a Tervigon, and bring in a tank killer Or 3) Talk to the necron player they have some good anti tank, might be they can take up the slack?

A Tervigon is still a melee monster, and if properly upgraded with toxins, adrenals, relic, warlord trait and stratagems, it can be a quite scary melee monster.

The maw-claws and heightened senses combo is quite strong on a Tervigon, specially if you manage to feed on enemy units to gain extra attacks.

If you are really scared of tanks, give them crushing claws, but even the talons can do good work against enemy tanks.

But if you feel even that is not enough, bring a Tyrannofex instead of a brood of gaunts.

 Tyran wrote:
A Tervigon is still a melee monster, and if properly upgraded with toxins, adrenals, relic, warlord trait and stratagems, it can be a quite scary melee monster.

The maw-claws and heightened senses combo is quite strong on a Tervigon, specially if you manage to feed on enemy units to gain extra attacks.

If you are really scared of tanks, give them crushing claws, but even the talons can do good work against enemy tanks.

But if you feel even that is not enough, bring a Tyrannofex instead of a brood of gaunts.

I wasn't aware of that tervi combo, thanks! It seems strong indeed. I will do 2 testruns, one without tyrannofex and let the tervigons do the antitank, the other one with tyrannofex. But i think i like the list more without tyrannofex and with more gaunts-tervigon

edit: my all time favourite tank hunters (hive guard).. GW, what have you done to them

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

pinecone77 wrote:
Boy howdy, it looks like GW did their usual over correction. It will take a while to see if some new builds can keeps us competitive.

The points changes are annoying. The Maleceptor change was unnecessary given the FAQ nerfs. The Hive Tyrant increase is exactly as I predicted further up the page; it won't be our last increase there. The Carnifex ones I get, but 15 was too much. The Tyranid Warrior one is the worst, as it all but ensures that the only combo worth taking is 2 Swords/Deathspitter. The Harpy 100% needed to go up. The Tyrannocyte one is weird. Increasing Swarmy and One Eye just because they put up Tyrants and 'Fexes was stupid.

But ultimately these changes are minor, because the bigger changes were the three changes we got shafted with in the balance slate.

1. HT always has to be the Warlord. Ok, not the end of the world, except...
2. ... if our Warlord dies we can't use Synaptic Imperatives. This is in the same update that made Necron protocols all-game affairs that can be used from any character.

... and worst of all...

3. Our Adaptive Physiology is no longer adaptive, as we have to choose it when making a list, thereby defeating the entire fething point of the rule.

The first one is annoying. The second one is crippling. That last one is galling.

Yep, killed the HT of any flavor, IMO. +20 and 3 TG is too much of a tax.

Well...I am hearing rumors of 10th edition. If that is around the corner, who knows what will be the new "meta".

pinecone77 wrote:
Well...I am hearing rumors of 10th edition. If that is around the corner, who knows what will be the new "meta".

There are the rumors that 10th will have Nids in the launch box. If those turn out to be true we will probably get an early codex, which is good for a little bit as we get to play the haves-vs-have nots game while other are waiting. But with codex creep being what it is, will make it a rough second half of the new edition.

Word!

Hey all, I'm playing my first game in almost a year this weekend, 1000 points and I was hoping to get some ideas of what people seem to be having success with at that point level. For reference I don't currently own a Maleceptor, Haruspex, Toxicrene or Tyrranocite and I only have 1 Biovore.

A lot of things really. Most of our codex is if not strong then at least playable.

 Tyran wrote:
A lot of things really. Most of our codex is if not strong then at least playable.

Having read through it I'm definitely getting that vibe. My issue is in determining what to bring at 1000; seems a little tricky to balance synapse and non-synapse stuff at that level

Well, if you don't take a Tyrant, it can be pretty OK. So: Neurothrope, x3 Brood of warriors, and a list just fills. Or if you want to go "Old school" a Big momma bug and a largish Brood of Termagants can be a very solid rock to build around. If you do take a Tyrant, you build the rest to support the Warlord, and you will have few points left.

I mean, a Reaper Flyrant is an insane melee monster that can one-shot Abaddon and fly back into security with Overrun.

But it does require a very smart play.

Also a walkrant is easy to keep alive with a the Tyrant bodyguards.

Well, today is Thanksgiving in the USA. I am grateful that Nids have not been totally boned so far....

Well, Nidvembor is over, and Decadance-vember begains. I hope it goes well for you all. I am now about 75% moved into my new place.

Merry X-mass, the day we are all grateful for Xenos, and all they bring to the galaxy.

Well Ark of Omens leaks aplenty. It looks like it will be a fun way to play, and Nids are not boned out the gate.I does look like if you want to run x2 Tyrants you need a Patrol for the second one. We will just have to see the final form of the new TOE.

Saw some changes to AoO today, and Nids got "de-boned" You don't have to use Tyrant as Warlord, don't have to have Warlord alive to use imperatives, and we can swap our Hive mods from battle to battle again. The last is one long comming. So now that things are better, I predict 10th in less than 3 months so all this means nada!

But it's nice to know, that in the dying days of 9th, GW realised how fething stupid those nerfs were.

10Th is leaking as we speak...Lol

Could you be more cryptic?

Leaks are not confirmed. But if it is leaking that means the Rule Set is just around the corner. So AoO got fixed about 3 months before a new rule set comes out. I saw several items over on Reddit.

Anybody have advice on dealing with World Eaters?

I am trying to shoot as many as possible before they make it into close combat, but even two or three models that pop the fight on death strat can take huge chunks out of things.

 Souleater wrote:
Anybody have advice on dealing with World Eaters?

I am trying to shoot as many as possible before they make it into close combat, but even two or three models that pop the fight on death strat can take huge chunks out of things.

Exocrenes are marine killers. Bring 3 and last samurai your friend's army

Acid spray Tyrannofexes are also amazing against 2W melee infantry.

Use harpy or hive crone to move block them. They cannot charge aircraft, unless they have a unit with FLY.

Will give those a try. Thanks, folks.