Mentlegen324 wrote: 2nd one seems like Arbites to me. Similar to the classic Enforcer models even with the bigger left shoulder pad with the Aquila on it.
So Arbites killteam, Drukhari killteam and Snikrot, possibly with more Kommandos. We have an orky grenade in the Rumour Engine, could be for someone that goes with snikrot, maybe a grot or something, hand looks too small for a proper ork:
Kanluwen wrote: Arbites in 40k would just be so dang weird. I hope it's Rogue Trader or Inquisition instead.
Arbites and Drukhari models are likely Kill Team - they mushed KT and 40K together in the article.
Still don't make sense. Not with the Gallowdark season.
Curveball:
It's a Scions Kill-Team, with an upgrade frame adding additional stuff?
The helmet silhoutte is pretty distinctly in the Arbites style, with the flanged neck guard and the raised emblem on the forehead. Also the model has a riot shield and possibly shock maul, a typical armament for Arbites. It might be something else, like navy bosuns/proctors etc., but that is a remote possibility.
Kanluwen wrote: Arbites in 40k would just be so dang weird. I hope it's Rogue Trader or Inquisition instead.
Arbites and Drukhari models are likely Kill Team - they mushed KT and 40K together in the article.
Still don't make sense. Not with the Gallowdark season.
Curveball:
It's a Scions Kill-Team, with an upgrade frame adding additional stuff?
Gallowdark is only two more boxes in the first half of the year, though. Did I miss anything in the article saying this preview is only for that? If not, the first box of the new Kill Team season that starts in summer might be Arbites vs someone who disrespects the law (heresy!).
Kanluwen wrote: Arbites in 40k would just be so dang weird. I hope it's Rogue Trader or Inquisition instead.
Arbites and Drukhari models are likely Kill Team - they mushed KT and 40K together in the article.
Still don't make sense. Not with the Gallowdark season.
Curveball:
It's a Scions Kill-Team, with an upgrade frame adding additional stuff?
Gallowdark is only two more boxes in the first half of the year, though. Did I miss anything in the article saying this preview is only for that? If not, the first box of the new Kill Team season that starts in summer might be Arbites vs someone who disrespects the law (heresy!).
Arbites do have spaceships by the way, they are in charge of imperial customs cutters and stuff like that, so them doing boarding actions in search of smugglers and contraband is not that far fetched. Besides that, there is obviously a huge demand for Arbites not only for Necromunda, but also for 40k, they have to be one of the most popular factions that do not have any official models on offer at the moment. So doing a box of them for KT to gauge interest and get some sculpst out there has to be pretty high on the priority list.
Kanluwen wrote: Arbites in 40k would just be so dang weird. I hope it's Rogue Trader or Inquisition instead.
Arbites and Drukhari models are likely Kill Team - they mushed KT and 40K together in the article.
Still don't make sense. Not with the Gallowdark season.
Curveball:
It's a Scions Kill-Team, with an upgrade frame adding additional stuff?
Gallowdark is only two more boxes in the first half of the year, though. Did I miss anything in the article saying this preview is only for that? If not, the first box of the new Kill Team season that starts in summer might be Arbites vs someone who disrespects the law (heresy!).
Don’t forget this season of 40K is all about boarding actions. They are basically making 40K into killteam for the first 6 months of 2023 at least mission and campaign wise. But we do need an agents of the imperium codex with hq based inquisitorial teams. So I can see arbites being pull into inquisitor and maybe rogue trader retinues.
Kanluwen wrote: Arbites in 40k would just be so dang weird. I hope it's Rogue Trader or Inquisition instead.
Arbites and Drukhari models are likely Kill Team - they mushed KT and 40K together in the article.
Still don't make sense. Not with the Gallowdark season.
Curveball:
It's a Scions Kill-Team, with an upgrade frame adding additional stuff?
Gallowdark is only two more boxes in the first half of the year, though. Did I miss anything in the article saying this preview is only for that? If not, the first box of the new Kill Team season that starts in summer might be Arbites vs someone who disrespects the law (heresy!).
Don’t forget this season of 40K is all about boarding actions. They are basically making 40K into killteam for the first 6 months of 2023 at least mission and campaign wise. But we do need an agents of the imperium codex with hq based inquisitorial teams. So I can see arbites being pull into inquisitor and maybe rogue trader retinues.
AFAIK it's not Gallowdark for the entire season, the season name is 'Into the Dark', with the quarterly boxes being Gallowdark, Shadowvaults, Soulshackle and Gallowfall.
Kanluwen wrote: Arbites in 40k would just be so dang weird. I hope it's Rogue Trader or Inquisition instead.
Arbites and Drukhari models are likely Kill Team - they mushed KT and 40K together in the article.
Still don't make sense. Not with the Gallowdark season.
Curveball:
It's a Scions Kill-Team, with an upgrade frame adding additional stuff?
Gallowdark is only two more boxes in the first half of the year, though. Did I miss anything in the article saying this preview is only for that? If not, the first box of the new Kill Team season that starts in summer might be Arbites vs someone who disrespects the law (heresy!).
Arbites do have spaceships by the way, they are in charge of imperial customs cutters and stuff like that, so them doing boarding actions in search of smugglers and contraband is not that far fetched. Besides that, there is obviously a huge demand for Arbites not only for Necromunda, but also for 40k, they have to be one of the most popular factions that do not have any official models on offer at the moment. So doing a box of them for KT to gauge interest and get some sculpst out there has to be pretty high on the priority list.
Something about the idea that a customs cutter of all things would try to stop a space hulk is hugely amusing to me. Daemons and heretics plotting sinister things? Fine. Alien invasion? Sure, go right ahead. Avoiding import tax? Now that is taking things too far!
I'm not opposed to Arbites showing up on the Gallowdark, mind. Frankly, as long as I finally get Arbites models I don't care about the context one bit. If they're in the next boxed set and I can get my hands on them earlier, so much the better.
Geifer wrote: Sure looks like Arbites. I hope that's it and GW finally decided to do the right thing.
I'd rather Scions get a Kill-Team, finally, than throwing yet another homeless Imperial faction into the mix.
Gallowdark is only two more boxes in the first half of the year, though. Did I miss anything in the article saying this preview is only for that? If not, the first box of the new Kill Team season that starts in summer might be Arbites vs someone who disrespects the law (heresy!).
It's not flatout saying "THIS IS JUST FOR GALLOWDARK SEASON!!!!", but this is what the article says:
Speaking of space hulks… Kill Team! Now that the Shadowvaults have been cracked wide open, it’s time to speculate about Soulshackle – the mysterious next expansion set. We know quite a few factions who’d love to get their hands on some tasty mortal souls, but how many of them have experience fighting in the bowels of a space hulk?
Tsagualsa wrote:Arbites do have spaceships by the way, they are in charge of imperial customs cutters and stuff like that, so them doing boarding actions in search of smugglers and contraband is not that far fetched. Besides that, there is obviously a huge demand for Arbites not only for Necromunda, but also for 40k, they have to be one of the most popular factions that do not have any official models on offer at the moment. So doing a box of them for KT to gauge interest and get some sculpst out there has to be pretty high on the priority list.
Arbites have customs cutters and the like but the Gallowdark has been a pretty continual narrative. Shadowvaults' Kasrkin kill-team were the remnants of an Inquisitorial ship that got stuck into the space hulk. They went much more active than they had been when they heard the vox-chatter from the Naval Breacher Teams.
The helmet silhoutte is pretty distinctly in the Arbites style, with the flanged neck guard and the raised emblem on the forehead.
The "flanged neckguard" is also present on the Skitarii Vanguard. Does that mean that the Skitarii Vanguard are Arbites?
The supposed "raised emblem on the forehead" isn't. It fades as the model rotates, making it evident that it is part of the maul or pauldron.
Also the model has a riot shield and possibly shock maul, a typical armament for Arbites. It might be something else, like navy bosuns/proctors etc., but that is a remote possibility.
You know that Kill Team does not translate 1:1 into 40k proper, right?
Kasrkin don't get a scanner or a medic in 40k--yet they're big parts of the KT roster.
H.B.M.C. wrote: You're really trying so hard to pretend it's something other than an Arbite.
It's obviously a Tempestus Scion with a torch that just looks like a maul, getting attacked by a bat that perches on his shoulder and looks suspiciously like the classic aquila pauldron, that has a helm he borrowed from a Skitarii and a very large scale unfolded map in the other hand that just looks like a riot shield! Everything else is wishful thinking!
Kill Team, like War Cry, is the natural home for “they exist in 40K, they’re hella cool, but can’t quite carry an army on their own, because of their established background”.
"And that's how I ended up spending a whack of cash on Orks" is my weak defence when the Long Haired Admiral wants to know why I've restarted an army I previously sold on.
Yup, clearly arbites.
I will only say its a good thing if they acompany an inquisitor (and a "real" inquisitor like Greyfax, not som bogus xeno lover like Kyria Draxus).
That stuff is probably just meant to tide us over till the end of April and Warhammer Fest 2023, where they'll be almost guaranteed to do the big reveals for 2023.
It's going to be tougher if Dark Eldar only get an upgrade sprue. You could get Mandrake arms on your Warrior or Wych body, possibly a pair of legs if they go almost all out like with Necrons, but at the end of the day two thirds or more of the plastic parts come from a unified kit and the rest is what they can cram on the upgrade sprue. There's only so much room for exotic stuff if they go that way. And realistically, that's how it's been for most Kill Team boxes.
Fayric wrote: Yup, clearly arbites.
I will only say its a good thing if they acompany an inquisitor (and a "real" inquisitor like Greyfax, not som bogus xeno lover like Kyria Draxus).
Guilliman's girlfriend is and Eldar witch. Think of what kind of example that sets for the underlings. These are strange times.
I've always hoped that GW would take some of the 4th Ed Marine concept art and apply it to the Primaris line. When the rumours of "Primaris Missile Marines" first came up, I'd hoped that they'd go in this direction:
... and less "missiles on the end of a stick".
Yes, it's a silhouette - we get that - but it doesn't offer much promise.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've always hoped that GW would take some of the 4th Ed Marine concept art and apply it to the Primaris line. When the rumours of "Primaris Missile Marines" first came up, I'd hoped that they'd go in this direction:
Spoiler:
... and less "missiles on the end of a stick".
Yes, it's a silhouette - we get that - but it doesn't offer much promise.
Rocket on a stick works for Orks. Primaris already looted an Ork buggy. Stands to reason they wouldn't stop there.
Honestly? I had totally forgotten about the missile Marine rumor and all I saw in the silhouette was a Marine with a net gun...
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've always hoped that GW would take some of the 4th Ed Marine concept art and apply it to the Primaris line. When the rumours of "Primaris Missile Marines" first came up, I'd hoped that they'd go in this direction:
Spoiler:
... and less "missiles on the end of a stick".
Yes, it's a silhouette - we get that - but it doesn't offer much promise.
Rocket on a stick works for Orks. Primaris already looted an Ork buggy. Stands to reason they wouldn't stop there.
Honestly? I had totally forgotten about the missile Marine rumor and all I saw in the silhouette was a Marine with a net gun...
Belt-fed net gun!
It looks like it is some sort of bolter-based main body with something like mini hunter-killers attached to it. The round things that are sort of protruding from it remind me of sensor coverings for e.g. heat-seeking missiles that get flipped open shortly before firing.
H.B.M.C. wrote: I've always hoped that GW would take some of the 4th Ed Marine concept art and apply it to the Primaris line. When the rumours of "Primaris Missile Marines" first came up, I'd hoped that they'd go in this direction:
... and less "missiles on the end of a stick".
Yes, it's a silhouette - we get that - but it doesn't offer much promise.
I’d love to hear the reason these sketches seemingly progressed no further.
I mean, the Missile Launcher kind of did, after a fashion as we can see design elements of the Centurion suits. But why didn’t they pursue this type of design in the end?
Not in a “you’re gonna have to defend that decision” neckbeard way. I just think it would be an interesting insight into the design process from an angle we don’t often see.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
xttz wrote: So up until Summer 2023, our 40k releases are looking like:
Imperial Guard
World Eaters
AoO themed books and new character models for Vashtorr, Azreal, Farsight, Snikrot. Possibly others like Dante
At least two new Kill Teams, and two other existing kits with upgrade sprues added.
Likely a generic space marines boxed set just before 10E
Which interestingly does suggest the recent “obviously a new Votann model” may turn out to be an Anniversary type model.
I mean, the Missile Launcher kind of did, after a fashion as we can see design elements of the Centurion suits. But why didn’t they pursue this type of design in the end?
The Frag Launchers on the Aggressors share a lot of the same design cues as the Missile Launchers. Also, the super chunky Havoc Lascannon takes a lot of cues from this art.
I suppose the KT box could also be Inquisition (including an Arbite) vs. Dark Eldar. We saw bits in the rumor engine a while ago that looked like a vat-soldier (or something) from the old Inquisitor rulebook.
Navy boarding team - didn't they recently show off some?
Guard Boarding team - there are so very many Guard regiments using so many different kinds of equipment its such a shame we see so few variants.
I mean, the Missile Launcher kind of did, after a fashion as we can see design elements of the Centurion suits. But why didn’t they pursue this type of design in the end?
The Frag Launchers on the Aggressors share a lot of the same design cues as the Missile Launchers. Also, the super chunky Havoc Lascannon takes a lot of cues from this art.
Paragon boss Sister has missile launchers of similar design as well. Normal Paragons as well, albeit with different weaponry.
I think the design from the sketches may have ended up too blocky for the generally rounded Marine power armor and was not pursued any further in that particular shape because of it . But the basic idea did persist.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I mean, the Missile Launcher kind of did, after a fashion as we can see design elements of the Centurion suits. But why didn’t they pursue this type of design in the end?
Not in a “you’re gonna have to defend that decision” neckbeard way. I just think it would be an interesting insight into the design process from an angle we don’t often see.
Back when they started with the range refresh for 3rd edition and plastic kits for essentially all the marine troops, they had this huge overarching vision of the whole marine - and by a lesser degree also the chaos marine - range being almost totally interchangeable between the different kits, characters etc., with a steady supply of customization kits from FW not only for the classic legions, but also custom chapters like Red Scorpions and so on. It was a totally different desing philosophy from today - don't forget that these sketches will have their 20th anniversary next year, and were made at a point in time when the studio designed the 4th edition marines codex.
Of course not - these are models which are joining the range, not leaving it...
Can't say I'm massively enthused about any of those stills, with the exception of there being possible Arbites.
I hope that's Farsight, rather than a random melee Tau suit, but the sword looks weird compared to his usual one. Spiky Eldar with Birb could be interesting if it isn't just a Kabalite - as noted, a Beastmaster would be more useful, especially if it came with other plastic beasts.
When I first saw that Farsight I assumed it was going to be sort of more relaxed theming where he's holding his sword in something like a classic samurai sword drawing/sheathing pose or just a surveying the battlefield sort of thing, but looking at it again though he's aiming his plasma gun in one arm and holding the sword in a very action-focused position with the other. Bit of a shame as the former would have been a nice change from all the over-the-top action poses all the time.
Of course not - these are models which are joining the range, not leaving it...
Can't say I'm massively enthused about any of those stills, with the exception of there being possible Arbites.
I hope that's Farsight, rather than a random melee Tau suit, but the sword looks weird compared to his usual one. Spiky Eldar with Birb could be interesting if it isn't just a Kabalite - as noted, a Beastmaster would be more useful, especially if it came with other plastic beasts.
I have a feeling we're seeing him from behind and that the way the sword, flowing ribbons on the end of the sword, and "wings" on his arms/shield interact because of shadow silhouette are what's making it look weird and not Farsight-y.
Mentlegen324 wrote: When I first saw that Farsight I assumed it was going to be sort of more relaxed theming where he's holding his sword in something like a classic samurai sword drawing/sheathing pose or just a surveying the battlefield sort of thing, but looking at it again though he's aiming his plasma gun in one arm and holding the sword in a very action-focused position with the other. Bit of a shame as the former would have been a nice change from all the over-the-top action poses all the time.
I got that first impression as well but I believe he might indeed be "drawing" that sword, either from some sort of sheath or just through the air across his mid-section. In any case, this being a Tau suit, the kit is likely modular enough to change his pose without much hassle.
Much like like this image here only with the sword across his body:
xttz wrote: So up until Summer 2023, our 40k releases are looking like:
Imperial Guard
World Eaters
AoO themed books and new character models for Vashtorr, Azreal, Farsight, Snikrot. Possibly others like Dante
At least two new Kill Teams, and two other existing kits with upgrade sprues added.
Likely a generic space marines boxed set just before 10E
Which interestingly does suggest the recent “obviously a new Votann model” may turn out to be an Anniversary type model.
Honestly after seeing this the 4/5 Votann rumours seem more likely to be larger release than one off character or killteam as it would seem they aren't coming in the next 3-6 months and a single character/killteam would be the only thing to fit in there.Theres too many different bits for it to be just one model.
I'm not 100% convinced it's Arbites, but hey, it would make sense. The Drukhari are likely getting an upgrade sprue to their kit, so then the other side of that would be the full-new Arbites.
I personally would prefer an Inquisitorial retinue of some sort, but it's all good. Will be very interested to see what the Terrain looks like. Will it be more of the same walls and doors we already have, or will we see a divergence?
I'm not 100% convinced it's Arbites, but hey, it would make sense. The Drukhari are likely getting an upgrade sprue to their kit, so then the other side of that would be the full-new Arbites.
I personally would prefer an Inquisitorial retinue of some sort, but it's all good. Will be very interested to see what the Terrain looks like. Will it be more of the same walls and doors we already have, or will we see a divergence?
Why do you not think it's Arbites? It's noticably different from the Necromunda Enforcers and has features similar to the classic models, specifically the larger shoulder pad with Aquila.
Also, not so sure it’s just an upgrade frame for Kabalite warriors really.
The legs don’t seem to match ones from the existing box, so could be a new kit entirely (good way to get a new version out for them).
We are perhaps getting to the point where they’d decided KT, and it’s post unit releases, is popular enough that it can have two new units at a time now.
It’s been doing well long enough now that it could finally be at the point to release that, as lead time would have taken a little while anyway.
I'm not 100% convinced it's Arbites, but hey, it would make sense. The Drukhari are likely getting an upgrade sprue to their kit, so then the other side of that would be the full-new Arbites.
I personally would prefer an Inquisitorial retinue of some sort, but it's all good. Will be very interested to see what the Terrain looks like. Will it be more of the same walls and doors we already have, or will we see a divergence?
Why do you not think it's Arbites? It's noticably different from the Necromunda Enforcers and has features similar to the classic models, specifically the larger shoulder pad with Aquila.
Eh... Maybe it's just me being in denial. I'd much rather see them turn out to be redesigned Crusaders (which I know they don't match) or Inquisitorial Acolytes.
Coming out with Arbites will make a lot of nostalgia-goggle players very happy, but do nothing to fill out gaping holes in some of the armies that are out there, so it irks the pragmatic side of my brain.
drbored wrote: Coming out with Arbites will make a lot of nostalgia-goggle players very happy, but do nothing to fill out gaping holes in some of the armies that are out there, so it irks the pragmatic side of my brain.
Kill-Team is it's own game. It doesn't have to include kits that fill the holes of existing armies for a different game. Each Kill-Team has to service itself and itself only.
If arbites come out, it'll be the first 40k setting kit I've purchased since BSF.
(At least if they have the same proportions are the Cadians. I'm not at all a fan of how clucnky the navy breech team looks, even though the design -save for the boots- is pretty great)
Danny76 wrote: Also, not so sure it’s just an upgrade frame for Kabalite warriors really.
The legs don’t seem to match ones from the existing box, so could be a new kit entirely (good way to get a new version out for them).
We are perhaps getting to the point where they’d decided KT, and it’s post unit releases, is popular enough that it can have two new units at a time now.
It’s been doing well long enough now that it could finally be at the point to release that, as lead time would have taken a little while anyway.
Do Kabalites need a new kit? They hold up very well. The Pathfinder upgrade had an extra set of legs too so if these don’t match that doesn’t necessarily mean much.
Danny76 wrote: Also, not so sure it’s just an upgrade frame for Kabalite warriors really.
The legs don’t seem to match ones from the existing box, so could be a new kit entirely (good way to get a new version out for them).
We are perhaps getting to the point where they’d decided KT, and it’s post unit releases, is popular enough that it can have two new units at a time now.
It’s been doing well long enough now that it could finally be at the point to release that, as lead time would have taken a little while anyway.
Do Kabalites need a new kit? They hold up very well. The Pathfinder upgrade had an extra set of legs too so if these don’t match that doesn’t necessarily mean much.
The Kabalites themselves are fine. The Drukhari lineup on the other hand had a lot of stuff that is still only available in finecast and went last chance to buy some time ago, among them the court of the Archon and beast models. It's not totally unreasonable that the killteam at least throws a bone or two in that direction. A Sslyth and maybe one or two of the smaller beasts would certainly be possible even if the main body of the team was Kabalites.
Danny76 wrote: Also, not so sure it’s just an upgrade frame for Kabalite warriors really.
The legs don’t seem to match ones from the existing box, so could be a new kit entirely (good way to get a new version out for them).
We are perhaps getting to the point where they’d decided KT, and it’s post unit releases, is popular enough that it can have two new units at a time now.
It’s been doing well long enough now that it could finally be at the point to release that, as lead time would have taken a little while anyway.
Do Kabalites need a new kit? They hold up very well. The Pathfinder upgrade had an extra set of legs too so if these don’t match that doesn’t necessarily mean much.
Are Trueborn still a option for DEldar or did they get pulled for having no actual models? Could be a way of reintegrating them.
It's noticably different from the Necromunda Enforcers and has features similar to the classic models, specifically the larger shoulder pad with Aquila.
There is no such thing as an GW Adeptus Arbite with a aquila shoulder pad.
Four generations exist:
1. Slim Arbites with verically padded shoulder pads
2. Classic Jes Godwin Arbites with winged fist on big right shoulder pad (but aquila on helmets)
3. Necromunda Enforcers winged skull on right shoulder pad
4a. Misspelled Palantine Enforcers with horizontally padded shoulder pads
4b. Misspelled Palantine Subjugators with padded shoulder pads
It's noticably different from the Necromunda Enforcers and has features similar to the classic models, specifically the larger shoulder pad with Aquila.
There is no such thing as an GW Adeptus Arbite with a aquila shoulder pad.
Four generations exist:
1. Slim Arbites with verically padded shoulder pads
2. Classic Jes Godwin Arbites with winged fist on big right shoulder pad (but aquila on helmets)
3. Necromunda Enforcers winged skull on right shoulder pad
4a. Misspelled Palantine Enforcers with horizontally padded shoulder pads
4b. Misspelled Palantine Subjugators with padded shoulder pads
The point is still the same even if I got the specifics of what the logo on their shoulder pad is slightly wrong. Both the classic arbites and classic enforcer models have their right shoulder pad larger than the left one and with a winged logo on it, just like this silhouette does.
Arbitrator wrote: Are Trueborn still a option for DEldar or did they get pulled for having no actual models? Could be a way of reintegrating them.
Trueborn are a unit upgrade for Kabalites if you have a Master Archon. You pay 1 Power/15 Pts for the Master and gain access to a special ability, relic, and warlord trait while also getting an allowance of one unit of Trueborn for 1 Power per 5/2 Pts per model. Trueborn get 2+ BS, +1 Ld, and ignore all modifiers to hit and to BS for ranged attacks.
You can do something similar for Cults and Covens.
Gert wrote: I have a feeling the KT unit will be painfully similar to the Corsairs.
I'm hoping not, but I think you are probably right.
My hope is that they do a lot with the upgrade sprue. They could probably fit a few smaller creatures like a Khymera and or a Razorwing Flock on it and parts to make a Kabalite a Beastmaster. Because otherwise I think you are correct and they will pretty much just be Corsairs 2.0.
Not sure if anyone else has caught it, but the "shackle" part of the next box seems to be a callout to the (I believe mentioned as Officio Prefectus?) Imperium penal ship, the Boneshackle.
If it is Prefectus, Scions decked out as "enforcers" would not be out of place.
Kanluwen wrote: Not sure if anyone else has caught it, but the "shackle" part of the next box seems to be a callout to the (I believe mentioned as Officio Prefectus?) Imperium penal ship, the Boneshackle.
If it is Prefectus, Scions decked out as "enforcers" would not be out of place.
Or it's just a callout to space cops shackling people.
Kanluwen wrote: Not sure if anyone else has caught it, but the "shackle" part of the next box seems to be a callout to the (I believe mentioned as Officio Prefectus?) Imperium penal ship, the Boneshackle.
If it is Prefectus, Scions decked out as "enforcers" would not be out of place.
But why tease a silhouette of a scion kitted up in unrecognisable gear and armour? It dont even have the backpack every scion carry. Might as well say its Alpha Legion posing as scions, in arbites gear, if you like to make up fluff and backstory for a silhouette.
Kanluwen wrote: Not sure if anyone else has caught it, but the "shackle" part of the next box seems to be a callout to the (I believe mentioned as Officio Prefectus?) Imperium penal ship, the Boneshackle.
If it is Prefectus, Scions decked out as "enforcers" would not be out of place.
Or it's just a callout to space cops shackling people.
Or the old piece of dark Eldar gear called soul-trap/soul-shackle. But that would be too logical
Fayric wrote: But why tease a silhouette of a scion kitted up in unrecognisable gear and armour? It dont even have the backpack every scion carry. Might as well say its Alpha Legion posing as scions, in arbites gear, if you like to make up fluff and backstory for a silhouette.
It's K, he sees scions everywhere. I especially liked when he insisted for multiple pages that rumor engine pic showing new Sister walkers (with obviously feminine legs and fleurs) is new Tempestus, case closed, everyone else is wrong
Spiky Corsairs doesn't sound terrible to me, to be honest. The thing with Dark Eldar is that they just need a substantial range update when their (preferably next) codex drops. One Kill Team isn't going to make up for all the lost characters, resin model still in the range or over ten years with nothing to show than a new plastic Archon and Succubus.
Kill Team isn't the place to modernize a range like that. Sisters with their extensive two waves of new plastic models getting one more kit via Kill Team? Sure, that works. But a single Kill Team kit simply can't make up for all the neglect Dark Eldar have suffered. It's far better for the Kill Team to be its own, hopefully enticing thing than trying to fit fifteen different things on a tiny sprue and not really getting anything of value out of it. Just ask yourself, how far is your Beastmaster unit going to get with one Razorwing base's worth of critters if they come on an upgrade sprue whose price is tied to ten dudes unrelated to that unit? That's not a satisfactory update to the army or a workable solution, really.
Kanluwen wrote: Not sure if anyone else has caught it, but the "shackle" part of the next box seems to be a callout to the (I believe mentioned as Officio Prefectus?) Imperium penal ship, the Boneshackle.
If it is Prefectus, Scions decked out as "enforcers" would not be out of place.
But why tease a silhouette of a scion kitted up in unrecognisable gear and armour? It dont even have the backpack every scion carry. Might as well say its Alpha Legion posing as scions, in arbites gear, if you like to make up fluff and backstory for a silhouette.
I mean, it is Alpha Legion posing as Scions in Arbites gear. What else would it be?
Kanluwen wrote: Not sure if anyone else has caught it, but the "shackle" part of the next box seems to be a callout to the (I believe mentioned as Officio Prefectus?) Imperium penal ship, the Boneshackle.
If it is Prefectus, Scions decked out as "enforcers" would not be out of place.
Or it's just a callout to space cops shackling people.
Or it might be about the penal ship, but still feature Arbites. If the ship has crashed into the hulk, the convicts might be loose, therefore the Arbites must board the ship to ensure that justice is served. The kaballites are just there to grab some depraved souls to torture.
Kanluwen wrote: Not sure if anyone else has caught it, but the "shackle" part of the next box seems to be a callout to the (I believe mentioned as Officio Prefectus?) Imperium penal ship, the Boneshackle.
If it is Prefectus, Scions decked out as "enforcers" would not be out of place.
But why tease a silhouette of a scion kitted up in unrecognisable gear and armour? It dont even have the backpack every scion carry. Might as well say its Alpha Legion posing as scions, in arbites gear, if you like to make up fluff and backstory for a silhouette.
Are 'Scions decked out as enforcers' even a thing anywhere in the background? To the point that you'd do them instead of actually existing enforcers that have been in the fluff for the better part of 30 years? Naval provosts and such exist, but they're Navy, not Scions - and we had both a Navy and a 'Stormtrooper' killteam already in this season.
Geifer wrote: Spiky Corsairs doesn't sound terrible to me, to be honest. The thing with Dark Eldar is that they just need a substantial range update when their (preferably next) codex drops. One Kill Team isn't going to make up for all the lost characters, resin model still in the range or over ten years with nothing to show than a new plastic Archon and Succubus.
Kill Team isn't the place to modernize a range like that. Sisters with their extensive two waves of new plastic models getting one more kit via Kill Team? Sure, that works. But a single Kill Team kit simply can't make up for all the neglect Dark Eldar have suffered. It's far better for the Kill Team to be its own, hopefully enticing thing than trying to fit fifteen different things on a tiny sprue and not really getting anything of value out of it. Just ask yourself, how far is your Beastmaster unit going to get with one Razorwing base's worth of critters if they come on an upgrade sprue whose price is tied to ten dudes unrelated to that unit? That's not a satisfactory update to the army or a workable solution, really.
I definitely agree that Kill Team shouldn't be the place to update the Dark Eldar, they need several new kits for all the resin stuff that still exists and could do with with their range expanded by a couple new kits. At least their core troop models still hold up well I suppose.
That said I do hope they do add a couple beasts or something unique onto the upgrade sprue. Not for people to army build for 40k, but to give the kill team a bit more to differentiate them from Corsairs. As a pretty big fan of Dark Eldar, I would be pretty bummed if the upgrade sprue just goes and turns one guy into the obligatory two pistol guy, one the double melee weapon guy, one the guy with the net etc. As someone who only plays Kill Team, I don't want the Dark Eldar to just be a reskinned Corsair team. Especially if they are package with Arbites, who I am having a hard time seeing how GW will differentiate from Navy Breachers (Carapace, Shotguns, Shields, Robot team members, etc).
Geifer wrote: Spiky Corsairs doesn't sound terrible to me, to be honest. The thing with Dark Eldar is that they just need a substantial range update when their (preferably next) codex drops. One Kill Team isn't going to make up for all the lost characters, resin model still in the range or over ten years with nothing to show than a new plastic Archon and Succubus.
Kill Team isn't the place to modernize a range like that. Sisters with their extensive two waves of new plastic models getting one more kit via Kill Team? Sure, that works. But a single Kill Team kit simply can't make up for all the neglect Dark Eldar have suffered. It's far better for the Kill Team to be its own, hopefully enticing thing than trying to fit fifteen different things on a tiny sprue and not really getting anything of value out of it. Just ask yourself, how far is your Beastmaster unit going to get with one Razorwing base's worth of critters if they come on an upgrade sprue whose price is tied to ten dudes unrelated to that unit? That's not a satisfactory update to the army or a workable solution, really.
I definitely agree that Kill Team shouldn't be the place to update the Dark Eldar, they need several new kits for all the resin stuff that still exists and could do with with their range expanded by a couple new kits. At least their core troop models still hold up well I suppose.
That said I do hope they do add a couple beasts or something unique onto the upgrade sprue. Not for people to army build for 40k, but to give the kill team a bit more to differentiate them from Corsairs. As a pretty big fan of Dark Eldar, I would be pretty bummed if the upgrade sprue just goes and turns one guy into the obligatory two pistol guy, one the double melee weapon guy, one the guy with the net etc. As someone who only plays Kill Team, I don't want the Dark Eldar to just be a reskinned Corsair team. Especially if they are package with Arbites, who I am having a hard time seeing how GW will differentiate from Navy Breachers (Carapace, Shotguns, Shields, Robot team members, etc).
Besides Grotesques, the Dark Eldar models that need plasticized are all oddball ones- beastmaster + 3 different critters and 3 different retinue members for the court of the archon.
Geifer wrote: Spiky Corsairs doesn't sound terrible to me, to be honest. The thing with Dark Eldar is that they just need a substantial range update when their (preferably next) codex drops. One Kill Team isn't going to make up for all the lost characters, resin model still in the range or over ten years with nothing to show than a new plastic Archon and Succubus.
Kill Team isn't the place to modernize a range like that. Sisters with their extensive two waves of new plastic models getting one more kit via Kill Team? Sure, that works. But a single Kill Team kit simply can't make up for all the neglect Dark Eldar have suffered. It's far better for the Kill Team to be its own, hopefully enticing thing than trying to fit fifteen different things on a tiny sprue and not really getting anything of value out of it. Just ask yourself, how far is your Beastmaster unit going to get with one Razorwing base's worth of critters if they come on an upgrade sprue whose price is tied to ten dudes unrelated to that unit? That's not a satisfactory update to the army or a workable solution, really.
I definitely agree that Kill Team shouldn't be the place to update the Dark Eldar, they need several new kits for all the resin stuff that still exists and could do with with their range expanded by a couple new kits. At least their core troop models still hold up well I suppose.
That said I do hope they do add a couple beasts or something unique onto the upgrade sprue. Not for people to army build for 40k, but to give the kill team a bit more to differentiate them from Corsairs. As a pretty big fan of Dark Eldar, I would be pretty bummed if the upgrade sprue just goes and turns one guy into the obligatory two pistol guy, one the double melee weapon guy, one the guy with the net etc. As someone who only plays Kill Team, I don't want the Dark Eldar to just be a reskinned Corsair team. Especially if they are package with Arbites, who I am having a hard time seeing how GW will differentiate from Navy Breachers (Carapace, Shotguns, Shields, Robot team members, etc).
Besides Grotesques, the Dark Eldar models that need plasticized are all oddball ones- beastmaster + 3 different critters and 3 different retinue members for the court of the archon.
Are 'Scions decked out as enforcers' even a thing anywhere in the background?
Not as of yet, but Scions being given specialized equipment for missions at hand is.
Scions operating as bodyguards for high-ranking officers is.
Seeing as the only mention of the Boneshackle is that it's a prison barge. We don't know who owned it or what was on it.
To the point that you'd do them instead of actually existing enforcers that have been in the fluff for the better part of 30 years?
Scions exist and are a military organization directly tied to the Officio Prefectus(aka: Commissariat).
Arbites exist and are a paramilitary organization directly tied to the enforcement of law.
Naval provosts and such exist, but they're Navy, not Scions - and we had both a Navy and a 'Stormtrooper' killteam already in this season.
We had a Cadian kill-team and a Navy kill-team.
Let's be real here. Shields alone does not equate to Arbites. The Breacher Team was rumored as Arbites as well.
I definitely agree that Kill Team shouldn't be the place to update the Dark Eldar, they need several new kits for all the resin stuff that still exists and could do with with their range expanded by a couple new kits. At least their core troop models still hold up well I suppose.
That said I do hope they do add a couple beasts or something unique onto the upgrade sprue. Not for people to army build for 40k, but to give the kill team a bit more to differentiate them from Corsairs. As a pretty big fan of Dark Eldar, I would be pretty bummed if the upgrade sprue just goes and turns one guy into the obligatory two pistol guy, one the double melee weapon guy, one the guy with the net etc. As someone who only plays Kill Team, I don't want the Dark Eldar to just be a reskinned Corsair team.
That's actually why I'm thinking that it's the Drukhari with the "new kit" for the box. Giving a low-ish model count KT of Trueborn, something that's like a 5 Drukhari squad with some weird hunting beasts
The guy looks like he's got a Shardcarbine which feels appropriate.
Especially if they are package with Arbites, who I am having a hard time seeing how GW will differentiate from Navy Breachers (Carapace, Shotguns, Shields, Robot team members, etc).
Another reason why I've been thinking it's Scions. They're extremely lackluster with their Command Squad options now and a KT sprue would be a good way to add some extra flavor to them. Plus as a 5 model set, there's some extra gubbins that could be added like servo-skulls or the like.
Helmets aren't exactly unheard of on the extra sprues. Pathfinders got a Breacher helmet for their grenadier, Krieg got a Grenadier styled gas-mask for their demoman on their upgrade frame.
Necrons literally just got a new character on their upgrade frame.
I'd like it if the DE Killteam is an actual kit for Trueborn. I'd like it even more if they got the option for Shardcarbines again. That way my heavily converted squad could be legal again.
Are 'Scions decked out as enforcers' even a thing anywhere in the background?
Not as of yet, but Scions being given specialized equipment for missions at hand is.
Scions operating as bodyguards for high-ranking officers is.
Seeing as the only mention of the Boneshackle is that it's a prison barge. We don't know who owned it or what was on it.
To the point that you'd do them instead of actually existing enforcers that have been in the fluff for the better part of 30 years?
Scions exist and are a military organization directly tied to the Officio Prefectus(aka: Commissariat).
Arbites exist and are a paramilitary organization directly tied to the enforcement of law.
It seems quite odd that you think that the Adeptus Arbites, who do have their own ships, would be out of place to be on a Prison Ship, but the Imperium's Elite soldiers who are part of the Ordo Tempestus (Not the Officio Prefectus, unless I've just missed something. Neither the wiki or lexicanum says they're directly connected) and who we haven't seen in anything relating to a context of a Prison Ship, and also have them just happen to be wearing gear reiminscent of Arbites/Enforcers rather than their usual Scion gear somehow wouldn't be out of place.
It seems quite odd that you think that the Adeptus Arbites, who do have their own ships, would be out of place to be on a Prison Ship, but the Imperium's Elite soldiers who are part of the Ordo Tempestus (Not the Officio Prefectus, unless I've just missed something. Neither the wiki or lexicanum says they're directly connected) and who we haven't seen in anything relating to a context of a Prison Ship, and also have them just happen to be wearing gear reiminscent of Arbites/Enforcers rather than their usual Scion gear somehow wouldn't be out of place.
Do we really need to critique other people's guesses? I also think this is almost certainly Adeptus Arbites, but others think differently. Some of those alternative predictions seem absolutely bonkers to me – but that's fine. I really enjoy seeing how people react to rumours and previews (I lurked here for years without ever posting simply for that reason – it's fun seeing what others think) but the arguing over guesses that will be confirmed or disproved in due course just kills these threads.
People are doing different things when they make these kinds of predictions – some are analysing, some are wishlisting, some are throwing out their own ideas about what would be cool; some are making predictions based on factors beyond the rumour or preview, like what GW has done (or said) in the past, and others aren't really making a prediction at all but rather expressing scepticism based on those same kinds of things. These are all fine opinions to express; multiple, conflicting ones can exist without it being an invitation to debate, surely?
I think it's Arbites. But just pretend I turned up and said I think it's Fishmen. You'd laugh and move on. Works the rest of the time, too.
(Edited after I messed up the quote tags. And then again when I put this note in the wrong place.)
It seems quite odd that you think that the Adeptus Arbites, who do have their own ships, would be out of place to be on a Prison Ship,
They have their own ships used for boarding and customs operations.
That doesn't mean they have their own prison barges. Nor do, as far as I can tell, they seem to be the ones in charge of military justice or abhuman elements of the Guard.
but the Imperium's Elite soldiers who are part of the Ordo Tempestus (Not the Officio Prefectus, unless I've just missed something. Neither the wiki or lexicanum says they're directly connected)
Lexicanum directs you to C: Militarum Tempestus if you read the "Ordo Tempestus" bit.
Here's why:
C: Militarum Tempestus wrote:
The Ordo Tempestus is amongst the most rigidly codified of all Imperial organizations, for its men form the backbone of the Astra Militarum. Though the organization is technically a sub-faction governed by the Adeptus Administratum, it enjoys a far greater amount of autonomy than the regiments that often fight alongside it. The ordo's ranks are primarily comprised of Commissars and Tempestus Scions, though they have often included specialist factions mysteriously absent from Imperial records. In every theater of war across the galaxy, the ordo's men work alongside the incalculable might of the Astra Militarum, their elite training complementing the sheer manpower of the Imperial Guard.
If the ordo provides the rigid skeleton of discipline that holds the Astra Militarum together, it is the Commissars who are the minds of the operations. The Officio Prefectus governs and controls the regiments of Tempestus Scions and Imperial Guardsmen alike, ensuring that their military force is put to the right use in the Emperor's name.
Lexicanum's "Scions" article is...lacking, at best. It seems to still conflate all the "elite/carapace guardsmen" variants with Scions and just call it a day. They have Catachan Devils, Krieg Grenadiers(which was, per Dead Man Walking and some of the DKoK lore in the Vraks books, a volunteer/suicide run rather than an "elite" organization), and Planetary Defence Force Kill Teams in the same breath.
and who we haven't seen in anything relating to a context of a Prison Ship,
C: Militarum Tempestus has them mind-scrubbing failed candidates and sending them to the Mechanicus as "cargo". They have ships for conveyance.
As an aside: I understand it's a 6E book. I also understand that they just haven't published anything big about the Scions.
and also have them just happen to be wearing gear reiminscent of Arbites/Enforcers rather than their usual Scion gear somehow wouldn't be out of place.
It's an outline of a relatively common helmet design, not a signature item. As mentioned before the Skitarii Vanguard have the sallet helms. The Indigan Praefects(a Guard Regiment specializing in hunting beasts and Tyrannic beasts, commonly shown in art as having the Skitarii helmet with GSC styled "combat suits" plus Scion chestplates) also have that design of helmet.
Hell, it looks like Ursula Creed is even rocking one:
Spoiler:
I could jump up and down screaming about the antennae that can be seen at 0:51 seconds in the teaser being a Guard/Scion style rather than anything else we've seen from the Imperium--but that doesn't mean that it's 100% those things.
Sunny Side Up wrote: I don't think there is a Palanite Enforcer Kill Team yet, curiously enough.
Because Palanite Enforcers are a Necromundan thing. I don't mean as a game element, their fluff is that they're Necromunda's local police force to enforce Helmawr's laws and thus have no reason to leave the planet.
It seems quite odd that you think that the Adeptus Arbites, who do have their own ships, would be out of place to be on a Prison Ship,
They have their own ships used for boarding and customs operations.
That doesn't mean they have their own prison barges. Nor do, as far as I can tell, they seem to be the ones in charge of military justice or abhuman elements of the Guard.
but the Imperium's Elite soldiers who are part of the Ordo Tempestus (Not the Officio Prefectus, unless I've just missed something. Neither the wiki or lexicanum says they're directly connected)
Lexicanum directs you to C: Militarum Tempestus if you read the "Ordo Tempestus" bit.
Here's why:
C: Militarum Tempestus wrote:
The Ordo Tempestus is amongst the most rigidly codified of all Imperial organizations, for its men form the backbone of the Astra Militarum. Though the organization is technically a sub-faction governed by the Adeptus Administratum, it enjoys a far greater amount of autonomy than the regiments that often fight alongside it. The ordo's ranks are primarily comprised of Commissars and Tempestus Scions, though they have often included specialist factions mysteriously absent from Imperial records. In every theater of war across the galaxy, the ordo's men work alongside the incalculable might of the Astra Militarum, their elite training complementing the sheer manpower of the Imperial Guard.
If the ordo provides the rigid skeleton of discipline that holds the Astra Militarum together, it is the Commissars who are the minds of the operations. The Officio Prefectus governs and controls the regiments of Tempestus Scions and Imperial Guardsmen alike, ensuring that their military force is put to the right use in the Emperor's name.
I don't think the line of "The Officio Prefectus governs and controls the regiments of Tempestus Scions and Imperial Guardsmen alike" is meant as they're directly connected and under the direct control of them. Commissars are attached to regiments to ensure order, direct/encourage/disciping men when needed, and help maintain control. That's their job, governing and controlling the regiments they serve with, not a "Scions and Guardsman are part of the Officio Prefectus" like you're implying.
Lexicanum's "Scions" article is...lacking, at best. It seems to still conflate all the "elite/carapace guardsmen" variants with Scions and just call it a day. They have Catachan Devils, Krieg Grenadiers(which was, per Dead Man Walking and some of the DKoK lore in the Vraks books, a volunteer/suicide run rather than an "elite" organization), and Planetary Defence Force Kill Teams in the same breath.
It even says within the article why they're included, because they're regimental equivalents to scion/stormtroopers. Elite troops who are a regiments equivalent to the elite troops of scions/stormtroopers.
and also have them just happen to be wearing gear reiminscent of Arbites/Enforcers rather than their usual Scion gear somehow wouldn't be out of place.
It's an outline of a relatively common helmet design, not a signature item. As mentioned before the Skitarii Vanguard have the sallet helms. The Indigan Praefects(a Guard Regiment specializing in hunting beasts and Tyrannic beasts, commonly shown in art as having the Skitarii helmet with GSC styled "combat suits" plus Scion chestplates) also have that design of helmet.
Hell, it looks like Ursula Creed is even rocking one:
Spoiler:
We aren't talking about just the helmet style, though.
I could jump up and down screaming about the antennae that can be seen at 0:51 seconds in the teaser being a Guard/Scion style rather than anything else we've seen from the Imperium--but that doesn't mean that it's 100% those things.
It's an antennae. Just how different can they be? And what ordinary human Imperial units have a been shown with a vastly different style to that?
I don't think the line of "The Officio Prefectus governs and controls the regiments of Tempestus Scions and Imperial Guardsmen alike" is meant as they're directly connected and under the direct control of them. Commissars are attached to regiments to ensure order, direct/encourage/disciping men when needed, and help maintain control. That's their job, governing and controlling the regiments they serve with, not a "Scions and Guardsman are part of the Officio Prefectus" like you're implying.
Sure, let's pretend that there was not a whole other bit about the Ordo Tempestus being made up of Scions and Commissars...which is what you were arguing against in the first place
Lexicanum's "Scions" article is...lacking, at best. It seems to still conflate all the "elite/carapace guardsmen" variants with Scions and just call it a day. They have Catachan Devils, Krieg Grenadiers(which was, per Dead Man Walking and some of the DKoK lore in the Vraks books, a volunteer/suicide run rather than an "elite" organization), and Planetary Defence Force Kill Teams in the same breath.
It even says within the article why they're included, because they're regimental equivalents to scion/stormtroopers. Elite troops who are a regiments equivalent to the elite troops of scions/stormtroopers.
And like I said, that's conflating all the elite/carapace guardsmen variants.
Scions are specialized troops used for high-risk missions that some of the aforementioned variants aren't used for.
Grenadiers aren't specialized troops. They're standard Korpsmen put into carapace armor, given a Hellgun, and sent into the field to probably die.
Kasrkin are close-ish to Scions and they've been flanderizing them a bit more into the Scion role.
Catachan Devils aren't anything like Scions, and that's not even touching the different equipment.
We aren't talking about just the helmet style, though.
That's literally why some people have argued is the reason why they're insisting it's Arbites.
I could jump up and down screaming about the antennae that can be seen at 0:51 seconds in the teaser being a Guard/Scion style rather than anything else we've seen from the Imperium--but that doesn't mean that it's 100% those things.
It's an antennae. Just how different can they be? And what ordinary human Imperial units have a been shown with a vastly different style to that?
There's a distinctive style used for the Kasrkin and the new Cadian Officer from the command squad.
Spoiler:
The Scions have a bulkier antennae, mounted directly to their armored "hump":
Spoiler:
Additionally worth mentioning that it's not beyond the pale there could be a different backplate intended to have a powerpack for a refractor field...seeing as how that's what the 'antennae' on that officer is mounted on and the hellgun powerpacks is what it is mounted on for the Kasrkin.
And all of that isn't even getting into vox-casters.
[quote/]Man I really want to see an Arbites but I just don't see an Arbites, can anyone help me see an Arbites?
I will say this, the kneepad is rounded with a raised rounded edge.
the Karskin pads are squared off, especialy at the top ad bottom.
this also appears to be the case with the shoulder pad.
For the helmet, at the front it stops and drops down. where Ursalas helmet cuts back towards the forehead. It also may go down further to the neck. But I admit there isn't an angle to verify. Finally, the top of the helmet sees to curve more with the head and is in proportion to not have a raised ridge.
I dunno if that's an Arbites. The "mace" doesn't look like a mace to me.
It looks more like a plasma gun that's being held near the base of the grip, like it's being passed to someone.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I dunno if that's an Arbites. The "mace" doesn't look like a mace to me.
It looks more like a plasma gun that's being held near the base of the grip, like it's being passed to someone.
Maybe a quartermaster model or something?
If you look at it in the original video the very slight rotation gives you more angles of the whole model, you can pretty clearly see that it's some sort of riot shield in one hand and a club/mace/maul in the other.
CthuluIsSpy wrote: I dunno if that's an Arbites. The "mace" doesn't look like a mace to me.
It looks more like a plasma gun that's being held near the base of the grip, like it's being passed to someone.
Maybe a quartermaster model or something?
If you look at it in the original video the very slight rotation gives you more angles of the whole model, you can pretty clearly see that it's some sort of riot shield in one hand and a club/mace/maul in the other.
Oh yeah I see it now. It does look a bit like a shield.
So it could be arbites, or it could be some sort of new guard model that's meant to be used in boarding actions, to go with that ship combat set they're pushing.
So that'd be the third brand new IG release baked into KT21? I dunno, sounds a bit of a stretch to think it'd be another guard kit, especially right after Shadowvaults (Kasrkin).
OTOH, If Soulshackle comes out the same time as the new Astra Militarum wave and the Shadowvaults Kasrkin available separately, maybe, just maybe it could make sense.
Me, I still think it's Arbites, based on Valrak's intel (which he claims as "confirmed" already)
tauist wrote: So that'd be the third brand new IG release baked into KT21? I dunno, sounds a bit of a stretch to think it'd be another guard kit, especially right after Shadowvaults (Kasrkin).
OTOH, If Soulshackle comes out the same time as the new Astra Militarum wave and the Shadowvaults Kasrkin available separately, maybe, just maybe it could make sense.
Me, I still think it's Arbites, based on Valrak's intel (which he claims as "confirmed" already)
Krieg, Traitor Guard, Breachers, Karskin.
If you really wanted to push it, you could argue the Sisters have a kind of Guardy look to them running around without power armour and equipped with autoguns.
tauist wrote: So that'd be the third brand new IG release baked into KT21? I dunno, sounds a bit of a stretch to think it'd be another guard kit, especially right after Shadowvaults (Kasrkin).
OTOH, If Soulshackle comes out the same time as the new Astra Militarum wave and the Shadowvaults Kasrkin available separately, maybe, just maybe it could make sense.
Me, I still think it's Arbites, based on Valrak's intel (which he claims as "confirmed" already)
Krieg, Traitor Guard, Breachers, Karskin.
If you really wanted to push it, you could argue the Sisters have a kind of Guardy look to them running around without power armour and equipped with autoguns.
Every other kit being some sort of Imperial is pretty much par of the course nowadays, as Imperials are the 'protagonist' faction. I guess we can be thankful that it's a wider variety of Imperials instead of all marines all the time.
That should be on the right pauldron usually, but i guess 'Aquila towards enemy' trumps that.
I think we might be seeing him from the back, since if that's the front he has a weapon in his left hand and as we all know in the Grim Darkness of the Far Future sinisters are heretics.
That should be on the right pauldron usually, but i guess 'Aquila towards enemy' trumps that.
I think we might be seeing him from the back, since if that's the front he has a weapon in his left hand and as we all know in the Grim Darkness of the Far Future sinisters are heretics.
Imho in the video it does not look that way, but judging from the stills you could be right. It could also be some sort of weird illusion where your mind fills gaps in what you actually see in weird ways, like that ballerina thing that changes directions if you will it to
tauist wrote: So that'd be the third brand new IG release baked into KT21? I dunno, sounds a bit of a stretch to think it'd be another guard kit, especially right after Shadowvaults (Kasrkin).
OTOH, If Soulshackle comes out the same time as the new Astra Militarum wave and the Shadowvaults Kasrkin available separately, maybe, just maybe it could make sense.
Something that does not really get discussed often enough IMO is that the Octarius book isn't a "Krieg Kill-Team". It was a Veteran Kill-Team. There was art for the new Cadians in there, art that ties in to the new Tallarn key-art from the Guard 'dex, and new Catachan art alongside of the Death Korps stuff.
On the flipside of things, the Kasrkin list is Cadian. Any other list would likely be subfaction specific--and Scions are a big subfaction.
Me, I still think it's Arbites, based on Valrak's intel (which he claims as "confirmed" already)
The terrain box is £130... that's... a AUD$320 box. Or maybe even AUD$350, given it's the same as the Marine ones and the recent Marine ones were three-fifty each.
Skip...
tauist wrote: So that'd be the third brand new IG release baked into KT21?
It's not an IG release in the same way as (bafflingly) the Traitor Guard weren't a Codex CSM release.
The Breachers aren't an IG release, right? They're not in the new Guard 'Dex.
It's 2 killl team sets worth of terrain + some new accessories. As per GW overpriced terrain which is baffling as they basically could have the high detail plastic terrain market cornered if they wanted.
tauist wrote: So that'd be the third brand new IG release baked into KT21?
It's not an IG release in the same way as (bafflingly) the Traitor Guard weren't a Codex CSM release.
The Breachers aren't an IG release, right? They're not in the new Guard 'Dex.
I was referring to DKoK (KT21S1-Octarius), Kasrkin (KT21S2-Shadowvaults) & now this new one making the third.. I don't count Traitor Guard as guard, nor Breachers which are Imperial Navy.
130£ is around 150€ right? Offers significant savings over buying two KT21S2 boxes, but then that's always the case with multiples of duplicate sprues. I bet Soulshackle will also cost 130£ when it releases..
Dudeface wrote: It's 2 killl team sets worth of terrain + some new accessories.
What extra accessories? The picture - granted, it's only one picture - doesn't even show the original accessories. This just looks to have walls/hatches.
Do we have other pics for this?
tauist wrote: I was referring to DKoK (KT21S1-Octarius), Kasrkin (KT21S2-Shadowvaults) & now this new one making the third.. I don't count Traitor Guard as guard, nor Breachers which are Imperial Navy.
Then why would you count Arbites? They're not Guard either.
tauist wrote: I was referring to DKoK (KT21S1-Octarius), Kasrkin (KT21S2-Shadowvaults) & now this new one making the third.. I don't count Traitor Guard as guard, nor Breachers which are Imperial Navy.
Then why would you count Arbites? They're not Guard either.
No, I was not talking about Arbites, I was argumenting against the next Imperial KillTeam being Scions or Breacher guardsmen. I do think it's going to be Arbites and not related to Guard. English is not my native language, so it's possible my wording was vague.
tauist wrote: 130£ is around 150€ right? Offers significant savings over buying two KT21S2 boxes, but then that's always the case with multiples of duplicate sprues. I bet Soulshackle will also cost 130£ when it releases..
The 130 pound Marine battleforces are 170€, so that's what we may expect the terrain box to be. Could also end up being 175€ because consistency is for the weak.
tauist wrote: 130£ is around 150€ right? Offers significant savings over buying two KT21S2 boxes, but then that's always the case with multiples of duplicate sprues. I bet Soulshackle will also cost 130£ when it releases..
The 130 pound Marine battleforces are 170€, so that's what we may expect the terrain box to be. Could also end up being 175€ because consistency is for the weak.
Rather than speculate why not just look seeing price is public knowledge available from GW's site for about 25h and spare?
Dudeface wrote: It's 2 killl team sets worth of terrain + some new accessories.
What extra accessories? The picture - granted, it's only one picture - doesn't even show the original accessories. This just looks to have walls/hatches.
Do we have other pics for this?
tauist wrote: I was referring to DKoK (KT21S1-Octarius), Kasrkin (KT21S2-Shadowvaults) & now this new one making the third.. I don't count Traitor Guard as guard, nor Breachers which are Imperial Navy.
Then why would you count Arbites? They're not Guard either.
Well I did have a pick and it turns out it's simply a sprue I didn't recognise, it's the broken machinery etc in the into the dark set:
The boarding actions terrain set was always going to be the same price-ish as the Battlezone: Fronteris – Nachmund set. I'm actually very surprised it's £5 cheaper.
But given GW repacked that set and you got more stuff for a fiver more (unless you really cared about the cardboard base) they've shot their load there and I can't see myself picking it up unless I see it on mega sale.
yeah, the Corsairs KT kit is a triple build, you can make any combination of Specialists, troopers with pistols & power weapons, or troopers with shuricats. Real dope kit
I mean you know they won't though right? We've had the two full kits released already with the Navy and Kroot. Every other release is going to be one new kit and an upgrade sprue, just like the other KT boxes after the first box.
Octarius and Into the Dark were both two full new KT kits (the Death Korps Vets, Kommandos, Navy Breachers, and Kroot Band). Chalnath, Moroch, and Nachmund were all one full kit (Sororitas Novitiates, the Blooded, and Corsairs) and one upgraded version of a previous kit (Pathfinders, Infiltrators, and Chaos Space Marines).
zamerion wrote: So adeptus arbites menciones in the article..
It's not in the article, but in the linked PDF, under 'Agents of the Imperium':
When mustering your Boarding Patrol, select one of the
following: Acolyte units; Navis Imperialis Troops units;
Adeptus Arbites Troops units. The selected units from
your army gain the Objective Secured ability (see the
Warhammer 40,000 Core Book).
As of now, no such unit exists, so it has to come in the immediate future.
Glad to see Arbites. Not sure why people were expecting differently. Local Necromunda group is looking forwards to them as well.
Agreed on Drukhari. Proper Trueborn would be nice. I could see it being a mixed sprue as well like Necrons got, with parts to make a warrior into a beastmaster and then a few beast models.
Maybe the 3rd box this year - presuming the first two will be the continuation of the space hulk based ones. Can't begin to figure out a justification for Arbites being on board when Navy Breachers and Karskin have already been/are aboard.
Glad to see Arbites. Not sure why people were expecting differently.
Not "expecting", just speculating. I would literally rather have seen anything other than yet-another-orphanable-imperium faction. It's also going to take a lot to differentiate the Arbites from the Breachers.
Local Necromunda group is looking forwards to them as well.
This is the other reason I didn't want to see them. Necromunda has the Enforcers, they don't need the Arbites running around too.
Agreed on Drukhari. Proper Trueborn would be nice. I could see it being a mixed sprue as well like Necrons got, with parts to make a warrior into a beastmaster and then a few beast models.
I would rather it be, if it has to be an upgrade frame, akin to the Tau Pathfinder one.
Glad to see Arbites. Not sure why people were expecting differently. Local Necromunda group is looking forwards to them as well.
Agreed on Drukhari. Proper Trueborn would be nice. I could see it being a mixed sprue as well like Necrons got, with parts to make a warrior into a beastmaster and then a few beast models.
There is another hint towards that - that Boarding Action pdf includes a special rule that allows Drukhari boarding parties to include Beasts even though they can not include a Beastmaster. Imho that means that we either get a 'beastmaster light' in the killteam, or new-ish beasts as accessories with the team, or even both. Otherwise there's no real reason to specifically include an exception for models that are currently unavailable outside of the secondary market.
Glad to see Arbites. Not sure why people were expecting differently. Local Necromunda group is looking forwards to them as well.
Agreed on Drukhari. Proper Trueborn would be nice. I could see it being a mixed sprue as well like Necrons got, with parts to make a warrior into a beastmaster and then a few beast models.
Perhaps, but a bit strange there's no mention of these options and upgrades in the Dark Eldar section. Not even an apprentice Beast master (they are specifically banned)
Adeptus Arbites would be a pervasive and highly militarized faction throughout Imperial space. There's no reason why they wouldn't be on hand to counter a threat to the Imperium.
People have confused Arbites with local planetary police since they showed up in 2nd edition.
Yeah, the Arbites are like the FBI or FSB. They're a big step above your local law enforcement and if the Arbites get involved, you know you've messed up. Obviously not quite the same but similar in that a local police officer deals with local crimes like theft or assault, and the federal agent deals with organised crime or terrorism. If an Imperial citizen steals some bread they deal with the Enforcers, if an Imperial citizen starts an anti-Imperial cult they deal with the Arbites.
Gert wrote: I mean you know they won't though right? We've had the two full kits released already with the Navy and Kroot. Every other release is going to be one new kit and an upgrade sprue, just like the other KT boxes after the first box.
Octarius and Into the Dark were both two full new KT kits (the Death Korps Vets, Kommandos, Navy Breachers, and Kroot Band). Chalnath, Moroch, and Nachmund were all one full kit (Sororitas Novitiates, the Blooded, and Corsairs) and one upgraded version of a previous kit (Pathfinders, Infiltrators, and Chaos Space Marines).
Unless the cycle changes at some point because Kill Team sells well enough that they decide to do two.
Somewhat just depends whether they think a kit needs new stuff in it or a whole new one etc.
I think it’s likely it’s 1 and 1 upgraded. But you never know..
Kanluwen wrote: Shame about the Arbites.
Hopefully Drukhari get an actual new kit.
Glad to see Arbites. Not sure why people were expecting differently.
It's also going to take a lot to differentiate the Arbites from the Breachers.
How is it? Lore wise and model wise there's a lot of difference between Arbites and the Navy Breachers.
Well… on the one hand, Arbites use a lot of shotguns and carry big shields sometimes but on the other hand, they could get their executioner shells back, those were always fun. And I feel like the composition could be quite different too. Plus much different specialty gear (a D.O.G instead of the C.A.T. perhaps) and tactical organisation.
Kill Team is on a small enough scale that you can actually get a pretty different force just by changing their global rule.
As for the dark Eldar, a Trueborn squad/kit upgrade seems most likely since you have regular and voidscarred corsairs in the Craftworld book now.
It's noticably different from the Necromunda Enforcers and has features similar to the classic models, specifically the larger shoulder pad with Aquila.
There is no such thing as an GW Adeptus Arbite with a aquila shoulder pad.
Four generations exist:
1. Slim Arbites with verically padded shoulder pads
2. Classic Jes Godwin Arbites with winged fist on big right shoulder pad (but aquila on helmets)
3. Necromunda Enforcers winged skull on right shoulder pad
4a. Misspelled Palantine Enforcers with horizontally padded shoulder pads
4b. Misspelled Palantine Subjugators with padded shoulder pads
Did GW not make the 54mm Inquisitor game? I believe that Arbite had an aquila shoulder pad or one on it.
I'm excited my Inquistor Arbite will have smaller friends.
Danny76 wrote: Unless the cycle changes at some point because Kill Team sells well enough that they decide to do two.
Somewhat just depends whether they think a kit needs new stuff in it or a whole new one etc.
I think it’s likely it’s 1 and 1 upgraded. But you never know..
Yes, if things change in the future I'm sure GW will change what the boxes are.
But we aren't there yet and that isn't the formula for KT right now. The first box of a given line is two new kits to get people interested and buying in, then subsequent boxes give people just enough brand new kits to keep them interested while throwing in upgrades to (relatively) older kits to try and squeeze cash out of those. People like to have their units with fancy parts, so GW provides units with fancy parts through Kill Teams, meaning to get said parts people pay £30-40 instead of £10-15.
Heck just look at the Legionaries. Updating a core kit for CSM that was only three years old by adding two things to bring the kit in line with the old profile but then also adding four more upgrades alongside aesthetic gubbins was a genius move to get people to rebuy the core of their army.
Mr_Rose wrote: As for the dark Eldar, a Trueborn squad/kit upgrade seems most likely since you have regular and voidscarred corsairs in the Craftworld book now.
I think it'll be something not quite Trueborn. Similar in that they will be "Kabalites but special" but not actually Trueborn since they technically already exist. The name will be suitably OTT of course.
Tsagualsa wrote: As of now, no such unit exists, so it has to come in the immediate future.
Well immediate could be over half a year from now but yeah pretty much confirms.
Right, immediate in the sense of ''In this book's design window'' - a good guess would be ''in the Kill Team expansion called Soulshackle'', i.e. Q1 or Q2 2023.
tauist wrote: Of course we need Arbites, for GTA style escalation:
1. Enforcers
2. Arbites
3. PDF / AM 4. Astartes
5. WASTED
endlesswaltz123 wrote: The next space hulk based kill team?[...]Can't begin to figure out a justification for Arbites being on board when Navy Breachers and Karskin have already been/are aboard.
The first Kill Team box of the season (Into The Dark) includes a lot of pointed descriptions of some of the ships that make up the Space Hulk Gallowdark. A penal ship is prominently mentioned. Perhaps it's coincidence or wishful thinking that the Penal ship is called the Boneshackle, and the rumoured boxed set is called Soulshackle, but personally I don't think you need wear a tinfoil hat to make the connection.
Perhaps the Arbites are invaders looking to recapture a particularly dangerous criminal from the long-lost Penal ship, or perhaps they're the pre-existing garrison of the Penal ship, looking to herd their charges towards one of the boarders' ships and escape. That's perhaps as much justification as we might expect for GW to allow them to bring back a fan-favourite.
It seems fairly likely that the Arbites are making a return, and I for one am interested to see them. In an era of half a dozen or so slightly different underhive gangs (for Necromunda) or Chaos thugs (Warcry), I don't see a big problem in having lots of subtly different 'Imperial Agents' like Breachers, Arbites, Enforcers etc. I quite like the fact GW seems to be embracing small one-off releases just because they're cool – like the Ambull or Zoat – to fill in some of the gaps in the lore.
Besides, now the Palanite Palatine Enforcers exist, there's space for the Arbites to be considerably more elite or specialised, and perhaps hark back to their Judge Dredd roots. Things like Executioner rounds and the scary top-level actual 'Judges' mentioned in earlier editions would be cool.
It seems fairly likely that the Arbites are making a return, and I for one am interested to see them. In an era of half a dozen or so slightly different underhive gangs (for Necromunda) or Chaos thugs (Warcry), I don't see a big problem in having lots of subtly different 'Imperial Agents' like Breachers, Arbites, Enforcers etc. I quite like the fact GW seems to be embracing small one-off releases just because they're cool – like the Ambull or Zoat – to fill in some of the gaps in the lore.
Besides, now the Palanite Palatine Enforcers exist, there's space for the Arbites to be considerably more elite or specialised, and perhaps hark back to their Judge Dredd roots. Things like Executioner rounds and the scary top-level actual 'Judges' mentioned in earlier editions would be cool.
Killteam Arbites can also have some of the funky stuff from older editions that has no real place on the larger 40k battlefield anymore - webguns, fun grenades like choke or even hallucinogenics, special equipment like shock shields, mancatchers etc.
As for Necromunda, the 'real' Arbites and the Plantain Boys are not necessarily on the same side. Usually, the Arbites only care for capital 'i' Imperial Law and leave the local stuff to gubernatorial enforcers, which can easily lead to 'corrupt cop' scenarios if e.g. the Arbites catch wind of the trade in illicit substances like Spook, or Xeno Artifacts, both venues the noble houses of Necromunda are very much complicit in.
I’ve said this elsewhere but tbh as long as the models are good I don’t really care about whatever fluff contrivance has the Arbites involved. The models will long outlive this box set and the Gallowdark theme.
Tsagualsa wrote: As of now, no such unit exists, so it has to come in the immediate future.
Well immediate could be over half a year from now but yeah pretty much confirms.
Right, immediate in the sense of ''In this book's design window'' - a good guess would be ''in the Kill Team expansion called Soulshackle'', i.e. Q1 or Q2 2023.
tauist wrote: Of course we need Arbites, for GTA style escalation:
1. Enforcers
2. Arbites
3. PDF / AM 4. Astartes
5. WASTED
5. REDACTED
And for when you really done goofed :
6. EXTERMINATUS
Imagine getting such a high notoriety rating that the entire world you're on gets nuked
Tsagualsa wrote: As of now, no such unit exists, so it has to come in the immediate future.
Well immediate could be over half a year from now but yeah pretty much confirms.
Right, immediate in the sense of ''In this book's design window'' - a good guess would be ''in the Kill Team expansion called Soulshackle'', i.e. Q1 or Q2 2023.
tauist wrote: Of course we need Arbites, for GTA style escalation:
1. Enforcers
2. Arbites
3. PDF / AM 4. Astartes
5. WASTED
5. REDACTED
And for when you really done goofed :
6. EXTERMINATUS
Imagine getting such a high notoriety rating that the entire world you're on gets nuked
Oh but if 5 = REDACTED, this is the highest notoriety ranking anyone (aside from the Inquisition) can logically know about
Yeah, but that just means your existence is kept hidden from the public, to prevent anyone else from getting any ideas.
It does not necessarily involve planetary destruction.
Y'know what's totally wild? We're getting so many kits that would make fantastic tie-ins to an Inquisitorial warband...
Arbites, Navy Militia, Kasrkin, Krieg, the new Cadians with their upgrade pack... even things like kroot and corsairs
All we need are some death cult assassins, crusaders and preachers and we'd be all set. I can only pray that we get some new Inquisitor sets for SOMETHING and then people will be spoiled with the number of kits they can pick and build from to create a super flavorful team of misfits.
Seeing how GW seems to be supporting Kill Team and introducing game formats that support small bands of models instead of full blown armies, I wouldn't surprised if they did release some inquisitorial kill team / Boarding action list.
Well let’s see…. We have Deathwatch Captain Artemis and Damien 1427 rescaled for 40k from the original Inquisitor range. Would it be too far fetched to imagine other crossovers that could find a place as Inquisitors and henchmen?
It would help if Artemis was currently available, admittedly - didn't they cycle him out in the "range refresh" thing, despite him being fairly new and in plastic?
He was in the Deathwatch Start Collecting and is unbelievably cheap to buy secondhand as a result of that.
The day the rotation got announced I checked my most used second hand place and it was about 8 pages with 20 Artemises (Artemi?) per page.
Dread Master wrote: Well let’s see…. We have Deathwatch Captain Artemis and Damien 1427 rescaled for 40k from the original Inquisitor range. Would it be too far fetched to imagine other crossovers that could find a place as Inquisitors and henchmen?
