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It’s the helmet though that’s very Arbites though. As opposed to particularly shields or mauls or anything.

Helmets aren't exactly unheard of on the extra sprues. Pathfinders got a Breacher helmet for their grenadier, Krieg got a Grenadier styled gas-mask for their demoman on their upgrade frame.

Necrons literally just got a new character on their upgrade frame.

I'd like it if the DE Killteam is an actual kit for Trueborn. I'd like it even more if they got the option for Shardcarbines again. That way my heavily converted squad could be legal again.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

Are 'Scions decked out as enforcers' even a thing anywhere in the background?

Not as of yet, but Scions being given specialized equipment for missions at hand is.
Scions operating as bodyguards for high-ranking officers is.

Seeing as the only mention of the Boneshackle is that it's a prison barge. We don't know who owned it or what was on it.

To the point that you'd do them instead of actually existing enforcers that have been in the fluff for the better part of 30 years?

Scions exist and are a military organization directly tied to the Officio Prefectus(aka: Commissariat).
Arbites exist and are a paramilitary organization directly tied to the enforcement of law.

It seems quite odd that you think that the Adeptus Arbites, who do have their own ships, would be out of place to be on a Prison Ship, but the Imperium's Elite soldiers who are part of the Ordo Tempestus (Not the Officio Prefectus, unless I've just missed something. Neither the wiki or lexicanum says they're directly connected) and who we haven't seen in anything relating to a context of a Prison Ship, and also have them just happen to be wearing gear reiminscent of Arbites/Enforcers rather than their usual Scion gear somehow wouldn't be out of place.

No, you see that would be far too obvious.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

It seems quite odd that you think that the Adeptus Arbites, who do have their own ships, would be out of place to be on a Prison Ship, but the Imperium's Elite soldiers who are part of the Ordo Tempestus (Not the Officio Prefectus, unless I've just missed something. Neither the wiki or lexicanum says they're directly connected) and who we haven't seen in anything relating to a context of a Prison Ship, and also have them just happen to be wearing gear reiminscent of Arbites/Enforcers rather than their usual Scion gear somehow wouldn't be out of place.

Do we really need to critique other people's guesses? I also think this is almost certainly Adeptus Arbites, but others think differently. Some of those alternative predictions seem absolutely bonkers to me – but that's fine. I really enjoy seeing how people react to rumours and previews (I lurked here for years without ever posting simply for that reason – it's fun seeing what others think) but the arguing over guesses that will be confirmed or disproved in due course just kills these threads.

People are doing different things when they make these kinds of predictions – some are analysing, some are wishlisting, some are throwing out their own ideas about what would be cool; some are making predictions based on factors beyond the rumour or preview, like what GW has done (or said) in the past, and others aren't really making a prediction at all but rather expressing scepticism based on those same kinds of things. These are all fine opinions to express; multiple, conflicting ones can exist without it being an invitation to debate, surely?

I think it's Arbites. But just pretend I turned up and said I think it's Fishmen. You'd laugh and move on. Works the rest of the time, too.

(Edited after I messed up the quote tags. And then again when I put this note in the wrong place.)

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

It seems quite odd that you think that the Adeptus Arbites, who do have their own ships, would be out of place to be on a Prison Ship,

They have their own ships used for boarding and customs operations.

That doesn't mean they have their own prison barges. Nor do, as far as I can tell, they seem to be the ones in charge of military justice or abhuman elements of the Guard.

but the Imperium's Elite soldiers who are part of the Ordo Tempestus (Not the Officio Prefectus, unless I've just missed something. Neither the wiki or lexicanum says they're directly connected)

Lexicanum directs you to C: Militarum Tempestus if you read the "Ordo Tempestus" bit.

Here's why:

C: Militarum Tempestus wrote:
The Ordo Tempestus is amongst the most rigidly codified of all Imperial organizations, for its men form the backbone of the Astra Militarum. Though the organization is technically a sub-faction governed by the Adeptus Administratum, it enjoys a far greater amount of autonomy than the regiments that often fight alongside it. The ordo's ranks are primarily comprised of Commissars and Tempestus Scions, though they have often included specialist factions mysteriously absent from Imperial records. In every theater of war across the galaxy, the ordo's men work alongside the incalculable might of the Astra Militarum, their elite training complementing the sheer manpower of the Imperial Guard.

If the ordo provides the rigid skeleton of discipline that holds the Astra Militarum together, it is the Commissars who are the minds of the operations. The Officio Prefectus governs and controls the regiments of Tempestus Scions and Imperial Guardsmen alike, ensuring that their military force is put to the right use in the Emperor's name.

Lexicanum's "Scions" article is...lacking, at best. It seems to still conflate all the "elite/carapace guardsmen" variants with Scions and just call it a day. They have Catachan Devils, Krieg Grenadiers(which was, per Dead Man Walking and some of the DKoK lore in the Vraks books, a volunteer/suicide run rather than an "elite" organization), and Planetary Defence Force Kill Teams in the same breath.

and who we haven't seen in anything relating to a context of a Prison Ship,

C: Militarum Tempestus has them mind-scrubbing failed candidates and sending them to the Mechanicus as "cargo". They have ships for conveyance.


As an aside: I understand it's a 6E book. I also understand that they just haven't published anything big about the Scions.

and also have them just happen to be wearing gear reiminscent of Arbites/Enforcers rather than their usual Scion gear somehow wouldn't be out of place.

It's an outline of a relatively common helmet design, not a signature item. As mentioned before the Skitarii Vanguard have the sallet helms. The Indigan Praefects(a Guard Regiment specializing in hunting beasts and Tyrannic beasts, commonly shown in art as having the Skitarii helmet with GSC styled "combat suits" plus Scion chestplates) also have that design of helmet.

Hell, it looks like Ursula Creed is even rocking one:


I could jump up and down screaming about the antennae that can be seen at 0:51 seconds in the teaser being a Guard/Scion style rather than anything else we've seen from the Imperium--but that doesn't mean that it's 100% those things.

Kanluwen, sorry, but it is going to be new arbites for KT.

You mean like how the Navy Breachers were?
Or the Palanite Enforcers?

I don't think there is a Palanite Enforcer Kill Team yet, curiously enough.

Sunny Side Up wrote:
I don't think there is a Palanite Enforcer Kill Team yet, curiously enough.

Because Palanite Enforcers are a Necromundan thing. I don't mean as a game element, their fluff is that they're Necromunda's local police force to enforce Helmawr's laws and thus have no reason to leave the planet.

 Kanluwen wrote:
snip

I've created a thread for the lore discussion on this, to prevent it clogging up the thread. Plus, it is interesting in its own right.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/808269.page

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

It seems quite odd that you think that the Adeptus Arbites, who do have their own ships, would be out of place to be on a Prison Ship,

They have their own ships used for boarding and customs operations.

That doesn't mean they have their own prison barges. Nor do, as far as I can tell, they seem to be the ones in charge of military justice or abhuman elements of the Guard.

but the Imperium's Elite soldiers who are part of the Ordo Tempestus (Not the Officio Prefectus, unless I've just missed something. Neither the wiki or lexicanum says they're directly connected)

Lexicanum directs you to C: Militarum Tempestus if you read the "Ordo Tempestus" bit.

Here's why:

C: Militarum Tempestus wrote:
The Ordo Tempestus is amongst the most rigidly codified of all Imperial organizations, for its men form the backbone of the Astra Militarum. Though the organization is technically a sub-faction governed by the Adeptus Administratum, it enjoys a far greater amount of autonomy than the regiments that often fight alongside it. The ordo's ranks are primarily comprised of Commissars and Tempestus Scions, though they have often included specialist factions mysteriously absent from Imperial records. In every theater of war across the galaxy, the ordo's men work alongside the incalculable might of the Astra Militarum, their elite training complementing the sheer manpower of the Imperial Guard.

If the ordo provides the rigid skeleton of discipline that holds the Astra Militarum together, it is the Commissars who are the minds of the operations. The Officio Prefectus governs and controls the regiments of Tempestus Scions and Imperial Guardsmen alike, ensuring that their military force is put to the right use in the Emperor's name.

I don't think the line of "The Officio Prefectus governs and controls the regiments of Tempestus Scions and Imperial Guardsmen alike" is meant as they're directly connected and under the direct control of them. Commissars are attached to regiments to ensure order, direct/encourage/disciping men when needed, and help maintain control. That's their job, governing and controlling the regiments they serve with, not a "Scions and Guardsman are part of the Officio Prefectus" like you're implying.

Lexicanum's "Scions" article is...lacking, at best. It seems to still conflate all the "elite/carapace guardsmen" variants with Scions and just call it a day. They have Catachan Devils, Krieg Grenadiers(which was, per Dead Man Walking and some of the DKoK lore in the Vraks books, a volunteer/suicide run rather than an "elite" organization), and Planetary Defence Force Kill Teams in the same breath.

It even says within the article why they're included, because they're regimental equivalents to scion/stormtroopers. Elite troops who are a regiments equivalent to the elite troops of scions/stormtroopers.

and also have them just happen to be wearing gear reiminscent of Arbites/Enforcers rather than their usual Scion gear somehow wouldn't be out of place.

It's an outline of a relatively common helmet design, not a signature item. As mentioned before the Skitarii Vanguard have the sallet helms. The Indigan Praefects(a Guard Regiment specializing in hunting beasts and Tyrannic beasts, commonly shown in art as having the Skitarii helmet with GSC styled "combat suits" plus Scion chestplates) also have that design of helmet.

Hell, it looks like Ursula Creed is even rocking one:

Spoiler:

We aren't talking about just the helmet style, though.

I could jump up and down screaming about the antennae that can be seen at 0:51 seconds in the teaser being a Guard/Scion style rather than anything else we've seen from the Imperium--but that doesn't mean that it's 100% those things.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

I don't think the line of "The Officio Prefectus governs and controls the regiments of Tempestus Scions and Imperial Guardsmen alike" is meant as they're directly connected and under the direct control of them. Commissars are attached to regiments to ensure order, direct/encourage/disciping men when needed, and help maintain control. That's their job, governing and controlling the regiments they serve with, not a "Scions and Guardsman are part of the Officio Prefectus" like you're implying.

Sure, let's pretend that there was not a whole other bit about the Ordo Tempestus being made up of Scions and Commissars...which is what you were arguing against in the first place

Lexicanum's "Scions" article is...lacking, at best. It seems to still conflate all the "elite/carapace guardsmen" variants with Scions and just call it a day. They have Catachan Devils, Krieg Grenadiers(which was, per Dead Man Walking and some of the DKoK lore in the Vraks books, a volunteer/suicide run rather than an "elite" organization), and Planetary Defence Force Kill Teams in the same breath.

It even says within the article why they're included, because they're regimental equivalents to scion/stormtroopers. Elite troops who are a regiments equivalent to the elite troops of scions/stormtroopers.

And like I said, that's conflating all the elite/carapace guardsmen variants.

Scions are specialized troops used for high-risk missions that some of the aforementioned variants aren't used for.
Grenadiers aren't specialized troops. They're standard Korpsmen put into carapace armor, given a Hellgun, and sent into the field to probably die.
Kasrkin are close-ish to Scions and they've been flanderizing them a bit more into the Scion role.
Catachan Devils aren't anything like Scions, and that's not even touching the different equipment.

We aren't talking about just the helmet style, though.

That's literally why some people have argued is the reason why they're insisting it's Arbites.

I could jump up and down screaming about the antennae that can be seen at 0:51 seconds in the teaser being a Guard/Scion style rather than anything else we've seen from the Imperium--but that doesn't mean that it's 100% those things.

It's an antennae. Just how different can they be? And what ordinary human Imperial units have a been shown with a vastly different style to that?

Man I really want to see an Arbites but I just don't see an Arbites, can anyone help me see an Arbites?

[quote/]Man I really want to see an Arbites but I just don't see an Arbites, can anyone help me see an Arbites?

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Man I really want to see an Arbites but I just don't see an Arbites, can anyone help me see an Arbites?

Me am help gud:

Y'know that actually does help I can sort of see it now.

Shield in the right hand, maul in the left, antenna in the back.

I swear for a while all I could see was a rifle slung on his back and holding some sort of oval shaped thing (a baguette maybe) in his hand.

I so want this to be true.

Also the Aquila on the left Pauldron.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also the Aquila on the left Pauldron.

That should be on the right pauldron usually, but i guess 'Aquila towards enemy' trumps that.

The shape of the pauldron is identical to this model https://www.instagram.com/p/B4hMDKJHjCL/

Which I think is a conversion and I dunno where its pauldrons come from, but it still seemed significant.

Hopefully we will get a new cyber mastiff model with these Arbites.

Arbites.

Enforcers.

AM Boarding troops for ship to ship actions.

I dunno if that's an Arbites. The "mace" doesn't look like a mace to me.
It looks more like a plasma gun that's being held near the base of the grip, like it's being passed to someone.

Maybe a quartermaster model or something?

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I dunno if that's an Arbites. The "mace" doesn't look like a mace to me.
It looks more like a plasma gun that's being held near the base of the grip, like it's being passed to someone.

Maybe a quartermaster model or something?

If you look at it in the original video the very slight rotation gives you more angles of the whole model, you can pretty clearly see that it's some sort of riot shield in one hand and a club/mace/maul in the other.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 CthuluIsSpy wrote:
I dunno if that's an Arbites. The "mace" doesn't look like a mace to me.
It looks more like a plasma gun that's being held near the base of the grip, like it's being passed to someone.

Maybe a quartermaster model or something?

If you look at it in the original video the very slight rotation gives you more angles of the whole model, you can pretty clearly see that it's some sort of riot shield in one hand and a club/mace/maul in the other.

Oh yeah I see it now. It does look a bit like a shield.
So it could be arbites, or it could be some sort of new guard model that's meant to be used in boarding actions, to go with that ship combat set they're pushing.

So that'd be the third brand new IG release baked into KT21? I dunno, sounds a bit of a stretch to think it'd be another guard kit, especially right after Shadowvaults (Kasrkin).

OTOH, If Soulshackle comes out the same time as the new Astra Militarum wave and the Shadowvaults Kasrkin available separately, maybe, just maybe it could make sense.

Me, I still think it's Arbites, based on Valrak's intel (which he claims as "confirmed" already)

 tauist wrote:
So that'd be the third brand new IG release baked into KT21? I dunno, sounds a bit of a stretch to think it'd be another guard kit, especially right after Shadowvaults (Kasrkin).

OTOH, If Soulshackle comes out the same time as the new Astra Militarum wave and the Shadowvaults Kasrkin available separately, maybe, just maybe it could make sense.

Me, I still think it's Arbites, based on Valrak's intel (which he claims as "confirmed" already)

Krieg, Traitor Guard, Breachers, Karskin.

If you really wanted to push it, you could argue the Sisters have a kind of Guardy look to them running around without power armour and equipped with autoguns.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 tauist wrote:
So that'd be the third brand new IG release baked into KT21? I dunno, sounds a bit of a stretch to think it'd be another guard kit, especially right after Shadowvaults (Kasrkin).

OTOH, If Soulshackle comes out the same time as the new Astra Militarum wave and the Shadowvaults Kasrkin available separately, maybe, just maybe it could make sense.

Me, I still think it's Arbites, based on Valrak's intel (which he claims as "confirmed" already)

Krieg, Traitor Guard, Breachers, Karskin.

If you really wanted to push it, you could argue the Sisters have a kind of Guardy look to them running around without power armour and equipped with autoguns.

Every other kit being some sort of Imperial is pretty much par of the course nowadays, as Imperials are the 'protagonist' faction. I guess we can be thankful that it's a wider variety of Imperials instead of all marines all the time.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also the Aquila on the left Pauldron.

That should be on the right pauldron usually, but i guess 'Aquila towards enemy' trumps that.

I think we might be seeing him from the back, since if that's the front he has a weapon in his left hand and as we all know in the Grim Darkness of the Far Future sinisters are heretics.