Would you rehire some of the old guard? Have Mat Ward right a new Codex? Would you dig put all the FW units that were put out to pasture and bring them back into the fold... and I don't mean through the Legends rules?
Me, all I need is to make three announcements, and then leave the company to try and implement my madness.
First, True Scale Grey Knights.
Second Imperial Knights/Chaos Knights:Combat Patrol
Finally a plastic Warhound Titan.
That should keep the 40k studio guys on their toes for a while.
Second Imperial Knights/Chaos Knights:Combat Patrol
Finally a plastic Warhound Titan.
So, what exactly would you put in this Knights combat Patrol the match it's value to the others?
I'd like to request the Reaver as well, that's always been my favourite Titan.
As for what I would do, first I'd give the Kroot their own codex and expand there range, there is so much untapped design space in the Kroot. I'd have them be able to ally into Tau Imperial Agents style and expand on the Tau's auxiliary range, some Jokero, Nicusar, Vespid, Demiurg, and Gue'Vesa models. They've got plenty of units for the mecha style army, lets see some more Covenant themed Tau.
For me the biggest thing that the 40K setting is missing is Epic 40K. We don’t need every single kit that is currently available in 28mm but a functioning and supported Epic 40K would be great.
Of course this would be a challenge to support alongside Legion Imperialis. Since I’m only in charge for a day I’ll let others worry about that though.
deprioritise space marines and assign equal weight to all factions and put a concerted effort into advertising all of them in positive ways that make people more inclined to play them.
If you are going to present yourself to your consumers as providing a game with a range of factions of equal footing, then you should damn well actually sell that.
Not this weasely system we currently have where from the outside the orks and tau look like they're equivalent to marines, but when you get into the game you realise they're just there for marine fans to kill, miniscule fiction, no line of ork heroes, no special one off ork boardgames, no 'how many tau ethereal models are they going to make' range, no merch.
Nothing at all to suggest this supposedly equal faction in the setting is anything other than an NPC and chosing them as your faction is just giving marine players something to shoot at. You have no autonomy in the setting, just NPC cannon fodder,
GW have literally two product lines in 40k - platinum membership space marines where every whim, desire and need is catered to with far more merch, options and releases than you could ever collect and dirt membership which is every xenos army where you sit outside their door begging for scraps while you watch the marine fat cats walk past with their billionth lieutenant, trillionth novel and merch forever laughing at how much they enjoy the game. I literally stopped playing space marines because of how gross the whole thing made me feel.
Oh I forgot one thing. I'd announce that the Emperor would be released for 30k... and then give him lore accurate superpowers and make special rules for him for Epic 40k, Li, and Titanicus.
Lathe Biosas wrote: Oh, I'd put 3 Armigers: 1 helverin 2 warglaives... under 500 points
Two problems with this though. 1 The armiger sprue is designed as a pair, you can't part it out. 2. The cost of 1.5 kits or Armigers is already less than a Combat Patrol.
Now you could solve this by doing 4 Armigers, but then, why would anyone buy the solo kits. I guess 2 of each could work. That's probably the best route. However, then the problem is it's not balanced for the Combat Patrol game mode.
I would make a whole slew of new product announcements - new games, new models coming for existing ranges, re-release of all classic rulebooks, revile the Pan Fo, a return of the original Skullz program, a worldwide GT taking place on a cruise ship over the course of 18 months... none of which would actually happen, because I'm only there for a day.
I would implement a policy that the three year edition cycle begins when the last dex of the edition hits the shelf, not when the launchbox hits the shelf.
This would extend editions by 2.5-3 years.
That or create a living edition with digital updates that come at a reasonable pace. Part of me prefers this option... But 10th isn't my favourite edition, so I think there is still a point to edition change. I just think that three years is a really feel-bad experience for the last folks in line to get their dexes.
Having said that, if 11th is actually a 10.5 (as 9th was actually 8.5), it does soften the blow a bit.
"Hence forth, the squad level Warhammer 40,000 shall produce rules, including unit stats, at the unit level rather than the model level." I'll be at Bugmans if you need me for anything else.
StudentOfEtherium wrote: canonize female space marines. specifically establish that they always existed, and that the lore of the last 40 years was incorrect
i assume it'll take a few hours, so once that's done, i stop for lunch
when i get back, GSC superheavy based on this thing
plastic kit, of course
if i have any time in the day left after that, i'll bring back the wolf head HHSW upgrade kit
Okay, I gotta ask, is the female Space Marine idea because you actually think it's a good idea, or because you want to kick back and watch the impending community shitstorm while laughing maniacally?
Also, that looks like exactly the kind of excavation equipment that the Imperium would make and the GSC would take over. It's amazing and now I want one.
Okay, I gotta ask, is the female Space Marine idea because you actually think it's a good idea, or because you want to kick back and watch the impending community shitstorm while laughing maniacally?
canonize female space marines. specifically establish that they always existed, and that the lore of the last 40 years was incorrect
i assume it'll take a few hours, so once that's done, i stop for lunch
when i get back, GSC superheavy based on this thing
plastic kit, of course
if i have any time in the day left after that, i'll bring back the wolf head HHSW upgrade kit
Okay, I gotta ask, is the female Space Marine idea because you actually think it's a good idea, or because you want to kick back and watch the impending community shitstorm while laughing maniacally?
75% because i actually want it, 25% because it would make people mad
I'd also like to retcon in female marines, but in the most obnoxiously hamfisted manner.
They were always 50% female. The astartesification process just makes them all turn out the same. Meaning half of your forces were female all this time, you just didn't realise! And they were actually calling eachother b'rother, which is high gothic for sibling.
I'd introduce a boob-plate redemptor kit, and an upgrade kit that turns Guilliman into Guilliwoman. Then I'd ask Jeeves to pull up the company limo, since that torches-and-pitchforks mob is getting awfully close...
Without burning down the company as if Heath Ledger's Joker was at the helm, there is an easier female Space Marine Retcon, that people would accept.
Remember the two space marine legions struck from the history books?
Make one of them have a female primarch and dump them in the Pacificus region where not much happens.
Now you can come up with a nifty reason for her return and maybe have a new faction of the Imperium, maybe a new civil war to further break down the Imperium.
There are countless, but fun, and not universe destroying ideas that could be unleashed.
Lathe Biosas wrote: Without burning down the company as if Heath Ledger's Joker was at the helm, there is an easier female Space Marine Retcon, that people would accept.
Remember the two space marine legions struck from the history books?
Make one of them have a female primarch and dump them in the Pacificus region where not much happens.
Now you can come up with a nifty reason for her return and maybe have a new faction of the Imperium, maybe a new civil war to further break down the Imperium.
There are countless, but fun, and not universe destroying ideas that could be unleashed.
Why would the introduction or retconning in of female Marines burn the company down?
Because the flames that erupted after one Custodes female was introduced, make me fear the backlash of thousands of basement dwellers whose cry of terror would rival those of Alderaan when the Death Star came to town.
Lathe Biosas wrote: Because the flames that erupted after one Custodes female was introduced, make me fear the backlash of thousands of basement dwellers whose cry of terror would rival those of Alderaan when the Death Star came to town.
I don't much mind if people who are afraid of women's cooties decide not to play.
Lathe Biosas wrote: Without burning down the company as if Heath Ledger's Joker was at the helm, there is an easier female Space Marine Retcon, that people would accept.
Remember the two space marine legions struck from the history books?
Make one of them have a female primarch and dump them in the Pacificus region where not much happens.
Now you can come up with a nifty reason for her return and maybe have a new faction of the Imperium, maybe a new civil war to further break down the Imperium.
There are countless, but fun, and not universe destroying ideas that could be unleashed.
Yeah, no, the people who raged about the women in custodes wouldn't accept that either.
The irony is that genetically its easier to make the organs usable by all humans than try to chemically restrict them to only one (I assume) chromosome.
Human organs are cross sex transplanted now, there's nothing intrinsic to their makeup that make them incompatable from a sex/hormone/gene perspective.
The emperor hated girl cooties and spent 50% of his actual development time trying to build chemical locks on his organs so they didn't (somehow) work inside humans that, again I assume, lack a Y chromosome - and the SRY gene that is 90% of what makes things genetically male - which can actually transpose onto other chromosomes during division so you can have XX people with the 'male' SRY gene anyway...
So all Cawl had to do, was put gene regulators into the organs that suppress these weirdly specific anti non-Y chromsome gene codes...
You have to twist the genetics in crazy loops to make organ transplant compatibility reliant on sex determining genes. All humans generate varying levels of androgens and gynogens(?), testosterone is an integral hormone in the menstrual cycle (peaking at ovulation) so it's a real cirque de soliel of 40k apologising to come out claiming with a straight face that the space marine organs just can't work in women.
Modern organ transplants require only a few things to determine compatibility:
HLA match - determine how many of the 6 key antigens that interfere with organ transplants you have
Blood Type - must have compatible blood type (doesn't have to match, there's a matrix)
Crossmatch - they mix both people's blood together to see if they Fight! Pretty crude but it's effective.
This is probs skewing too far off topic, but as someone who encourages diversity and representation and cheered femstodes and fembretonnian knights and femcast eternals, etc im also ok with astartes staying male (though id welcome transtartes - anyone can be a space marine, but the geneseed makes you male-ish as you surrender your humanity anyway in the process), for the same reason that im ok with sisters of battle staying female. If you have a lore based reason for it, then that artistic choice is valid. I dont necessarily need to like it or agree with it to respect it.
chaos0xomega wrote: This is probs skewing too far off topic, but as someone who encourages diversity and representation and cheered femstodes and fembretonnian knights and femcast eternals, etc im also ok with astartes staying male (though id welcome transtartes - anyone can be a space marine, but the geneseed makes you male-ish as you surrender your humanity anyway in the process), for the same reason that im ok with sisters of battle staying female. If you have a lore based reason for it, then that artistic choice is valid. I dont necessarily need to like it or agree with it to respect it.
I have more respect for the lore restriction on sisters than marines. one is a cultural/political choice that can be revoked at any time, the other is pseudo biology that's so obviously designed to be exclusionary and *shrugs* what can we do when it's the genes that say no? The marine one abrogates creator responsibility by erroneously laying it on nature.
Make one of them have a female primarch and dump them in the Pacificus region where not much happens.
Now you can come up with a nifty reason for her return and maybe have a new faction of the Imperium, maybe a new civil war to further break down the Imperium.
There are countless, but fun, and not universe destroying ideas that could be unleashed.
Any solution that involves fleshing out the Lost Legions is not a good solution, sorry. That's one mystery that GWreally need to leave alone... but whatever else happens, they're not going to magically reappear from anywhere. That's one thing the Horus Heresy did make clear.
And 'female marines, because female primarch' would be a lazy and disappointing road for them to take, given that the whole 'only works with male hormones' thing never actually made any sense to begin with due to their being no such thing as 'male hormones'.
Given a day to implement it, the easiest and best approach is to have a Chapter try the Marine-creation process on some female recruits out of desperation following some major battle losses, have it work unexpectedly well, and reveal that the whole thing about it only working on men was just the personal preference of the Emperor rather than an actual limitation of the process. Some Chapters would start recruiting women to widen their recruit pool, others would refuse because the Emperor said 'no'... and as a nice side effect, those gamers who want them could use them, and those who don't could not.
And yes, parts of the the internet that pretend to be invested in the hobby would melt down for a while, and then, like with the female custodes thing, they would eventually move on to the next thing that acting outraged about might generate engagement.
Rules/codexes are free and updated online. Print copies still exist for collectors. This will lower cost of entry for new players, and remove a barrier for older players wanting to branch out to something new.
NMNR goes out the window. Go back to an armory wargear upgrade system (and more modular points). Let people kitbash Their Dudes. Promote the modeling side of the hobby.
Work on making more options in kits, and make it so kits within a range can swap parts.
Focus on updateing old kit instead of new ones. Finish the purge of finecast.
Maybe it could be a Fabius bile, dark mechanicum thing.
Have female Chaos Astartes...it seems odd that Chaos is primarily an all noys club... besides the daemonettes.... and the sinister "She Who Thirsts" Slaneesh.
Lathe Biosas wrote: Would you dig put all the FW units that were put out to pasture and bring them back into the fold... and I don't mean through the Legends rules?
Rolling made to orders on the discontinued lines.
And then i'd fire myself with a golden parachute large enough to buy a couple of the models without remortgaging my house.
Oh, and if I wanted to break the internet and have the community break out the pitchforks and torches, I would simply make two online announcements and then slip quietly out the back door.
1. Why, yes, Sigmar is a missing Primarch.
2. Starting tomorrow, Mat Ward will be in charge of all 40k Lore and Codexes.
Lathe Biosas wrote: Oh, and if I wanted to break the internet and have the community break out the pitchforks and torches, I would simply make two online announcements and then slip quietly out the back door.
1. Why, yes, Sigmar is a missing Primarch.
2. Starting tomorrow, Mat Ward will be in charge of all 40k Lore and Codexes.
Let the Galaxy Burn
Sigmar being a Primarch wouldn't be particularly controversial, since it's something that was widely discussed as a possibility for decades before GW finally gave it a definitive 'nope'. It was never a good source of outrage bait because it made sense and wouldn't necessarily actually have any particular impact on either setting.
As for Matt Ward... I doubt most people currently in the hobby even know who he is. But his 'dial it all up to 11' codex style would honestly seem to fit right in with current 40K.
"They were there all along" is a fine enough answer for me. I can call a sister my brother just fine. Since they've actually made a stink of it not working in the past though, I'm fine with the "desperate attempt" angle if that's what's needed to make it happen.
The 'they were there all along' approach was an acceptable way if introducing things back when the setting was a bit more fixed in time, as it was the only way that you could introduce something new without advancing the clock, and when most of the fluff was still not so fleshed out.
People have always disliked it, though, and the more developed the background gets, the more nonsensical it is to present something as having always been there despite never having been mentioned before.
chaos0xomega wrote: This is probs skewing too far off topic, but as someone who encourages diversity and representation and cheered femstodes and fembretonnian knights and femcast eternals, etc im also ok with astartes staying male (though id welcome transtartes - anyone can be a space marine, but the geneseed makes you male-ish as you surrender your humanity anyway in the process), for the same reason that im ok with sisters of battle staying female. If you have a lore based reason for it, then that artistic choice is valid. I dont necessarily need to like it or agree with it to respect it.
I have more respect for the lore restriction on sisters than marines. one is a cultural/political choice that can be revoked at any time, the other is pseudo biology that's so obviously designed to be exclusionary and *shrugs* what can we do when it's the genes that say no? The marine one abrogates creator responsibility by erroneously laying it on nature.
"Warp magic from the emperors bargain with the chaos gods prevents the gene seed from successfully implanting in women, as the pact meant that the Emperor could only ever create sons"
There, pseudoscience handwaved away - honestlybthe pseudoscience was a failed attempt at lore justifucation to try to placate both halves of the community which backfired. Shouldve just stuck with "attempts at producing marines from female stocks have failed for reasons unknown to the adeptus mechanicus, through some inexplicable biological mechanism, female candidates have a 100% rejection rate of the implanted organs. Belisarius Cawl has continued experimentation to try to identify the means by which chances of success may be improved, but thus far the effort has been fruitless."
chaos0xomega wrote: This is probs skewing too far off topic, but as someone who encourages diversity and representation and cheered femstodes and fembretonnian knights and femcast eternals, etc im also ok with astartes staying male (though id welcome transtartes - anyone can be a space marine, but the geneseed makes you male-ish as you surrender your humanity anyway in the process), for the same reason that im ok with sisters of battle staying female. If you have a lore based reason for it, then that artistic choice is valid. I dont necessarily need to like it or agree with it to respect it.
I have more respect for the lore restriction on sisters than marines. one is a cultural/political choice that can be revoked at any time, the other is pseudo biology that's so obviously designed to be exclusionary and *shrugs* what can we do when it's the genes that say no? The marine one abrogates creator responsibility by erroneously laying it on nature.
"Warp magic from the emperors bargain with the chaos gods prevents the gene seed from successfully implanting in women, as the pact meant that the Emperor could only ever create sons"
There, pseudoscience handwaved away - honestlybthe pseudoscience was a failed attempt at lore justifucation to try to placate both halves of the community which backfired. Shouldve just stuck with "attempts at producing marines from female stocks have failed for reasons unknown to the adeptus mechanicus, through some inexplicable biological mechanism, female candidates have a 100% rejection rate of the implanted organs. Belisarius Cawl has continued experimentation to try to identify the means by which chances of success may be improved, but thus far the effort has been fruitless."
Sure, but that's not what they did. And the geneseed isn't particularly warpy anyway. No more than twins are naturally soul bound warpy - sharing genes seems to allow some psychic connection without the need for geneseed.
But they've now clarified (because unlike marines none of the language around custodes creation said that being a man was necessary for it to work, only that that's who they recruited) that the custodes genetics aren't sex linked, so the idea that the most exclusive and hard to make gene monsters can be girls but marines still can't just looks more silly....
There, pseudoscience handwaved away - honestlybthe pseudoscience was a failed attempt at lore justifucation to try to placate both halves of the community which backfired.
The pseudoscience wasn't intended to placate anyone, as it was from a time before there was multiple halves of the community. It was an in-universe explanation for the models all being male, which was driven by sales in a market where the vast majority of their customers were adolescent males and the few existing female models were terrible.
Leman Russ returns with a new Space Wolves unit: Valkeryies... no not the IG planes.
Everyone loves Cool Space Viking Women.
I mean, yes, female Space Wolves would be great... but that only 'solves' the problem for the Wolves, not other Chapters, and, frankly, Russ should never return. The whole 'The hero strides off into the sunset, vowing to return in his followers' hour of greatest need!' trope works best when the hero never returns. That keeps them as a symbol of hope, while also being a secret tragedy (because, in reality, they just didn't come back because they're dead...)
As soon as they come back, they become a harbinger of the story's end instead, because their return 'at the hour of greatest need' suggests that this, right now is the worst it will ever get. There's nowhere to go from here.
chaos0xomega wrote: This is probs skewing too far off topic, but as someone who encourages diversity and representation and cheered femstodes and fembretonnian knights and femcast eternals, etc im also ok with astartes staying male (though id welcome transtartes - anyone can be a space marine, but the geneseed makes you male-ish as you surrender your humanity anyway in the process), for the same reason that im ok with sisters of battle staying female. If you have a lore based reason for it, then that artistic choice is valid. I dont necessarily need to like it or agree with it to respect it.
I have more respect for the lore restriction on sisters than marines. one is a cultural/political choice that can be revoked at any time, the other is pseudo biology that's so obviously designed to be exclusionary and *shrugs* what can we do when it's the genes that say no? The marine one abrogates creator responsibility by erroneously laying it on nature.
"Warp magic from the emperors bargain with the chaos gods prevents the gene seed from successfully implanting in women, as the pact meant that the Emperor could only ever create sons"
There, pseudoscience handwaved away - honestlybthe pseudoscience was a failed attempt at lore justifucation to try to placate both halves of the community which backfired. Shouldve just stuck with "attempts at producing marines from female stocks have failed for reasons unknown to the adeptus mechanicus, through some inexplicable biological mechanism, female candidates have a 100% rejection rate of the implanted organs. Belisarius Cawl has continued experimentation to try to identify the means by which chances of success may be improved, but thus far the effort has been fruitless."
An excellent justification. I was thinking that myself.
Altenative pseudoscience: The Emperor was in a big rush and is a lazy son of a . Instead of taking the time and effort have the Astartes Geneseed insinuate itself into a X chromosome, it merely attaches itself to the much shorter Y chromosome. From there, it generates the changes to the body that turns a male into an Astartes. BTW, Astartes don't have a sex and have AX chromosomes. They are simply Astartes and are incapable of sexual reproduction. A genetic dead-end that can only reproduce via surgical transplantation of the scarce geneseed. They just all refer to themselves as male since that was what they were before being converted.
It's always been amusing the blood angels geneseed calls out how good it is in turning malnourished mutants that fall over from a stiff breeze into ubermensch adonis's and yet, somehow it's girls becoming marines that's just too far...
The power fantasy is literally 'get roided, be gods', which would apply to any body it happened to, especially the blood angels.
i've definitely heard the idea that the space marine making process forcibly transitions any girls picked into men. would be in line with the imperium, sure, but i'm not sure it's the trans representation anyone really wants out of 40k
i've had the opposite idea myself, tho. if space marines really need to be AMAB individuals, then what's stopping them from transitioning. there's all the indoctrination, sure, but space marines still have personalities. i see no reason why that wouldn't happen
D) set up real bargain boxes (feth off push together bs, save that trash for launch boxes and promotional gak) at the 50% savings, and the 150$ price points (this may make the number of models per box smaller, I don't care - 150$ is much more approachable on literally every level for the consumer).
E) mandate "your guy" design going forward vs the current stupid ass "get your (required) primarch here." People's "stand ins" should be leading their armies (instead of named characters), and armies should actually feel different instead of 30 armies that all have the same two named feth-wads as HQ.
F) Female space marines would be a thing on the spot, I dont care the in-universe reason, but I would be sure to have a nice and clear public announcement that anyone that has a problem with that is no longer welcome anywhere in the GW ecosystem.
G) if I have time, I would mandate a freeze on SM model range additions, and put all that effort into reworking the factions to actually feel like supported factions instead of NPCs. I'd start by rolling together codex's - SM would be one codex, Eldar would be one codex, chaos SM/deamons would be one codex, genestealers and tyranids would be one codex, IA can stay it's own codex but needs to be binned and rewritten to not suck (add grey knights to this one). Suspect I would add a Admech + IK + guard codex to that, but I would have to look those over more to be sure before I would say so. Then I would have them sit down and determine which books are too skinny, and plan out waves for bunch of new (or old, if applicable) releases to compensate. Before anyone rages, I am *not* saying "make these factions the *same*, I am saying "enough with the bloat to sell paper" ex. blood angels would still have blood angels units, they would just be keyworded to "blood angels" - things like IK (which could be still taken alone) should have an additional keyword so they can be taken together in real TAC lists with AdMech and Guard sort of thing.
H) oh right, and failcast can be binned too, those models deserve better.
If I only have a day, price slashes! Back to 2000 prices, $30 for 20 models and such! Characters no more than $10.
If it's more 'what would you put in motion that would be carried out' then Imperial Guard, so, so much Imperial Guard. I realize it might be the #2 faction after marines but there's so much more to do.
(and obviously we're renaming them the Imperial Guard dang it)
First off do several regiments, aim for a 1 sprue per regiment ala the Necromunda Gangs. Each regiment would have two builds, a standard squad - 10 rifles, sarge, special and heavy weapon (did I mention we're going back to points for wargear? we're going back to points for wargear!). And the box will have one of each special and heavy.
Then a second, regiment specific, build. Catachans get Catachan Devils (flamers, poison knives, infiltrate), Tallarn get Desert Raiders/Sappers (demo charges, melta guns, infiltrate), Mordians get Honor Guard (pistols and power weapons) you get the idea. Enough extra heads to kit out the various tank and command squad bodies.
Secondly, Lost and the Damned, Chaos Cults, Traitor Guard, it is LONG PAST time. I know WGA have it covered, but there's always room for more.
Third new kits:
plastic Thunderbolt/Lightning/Avenger kit (I believe it can be done, look at the fantastic Dakkajet kit!).
Plastic Conscripts, 30 to a box, monopose, good diversity of body types, ages, genders. Make them look like a bunch of civilians/reservists/rear echelon types who've been issued their one-size-fits all coveralls, their caps and their las guns about a half hour ago and sent to the front.
A jeep
A troop truck, especially if it looks like a de-Orked Ork Trukk. Alternately a troop trailer for the jeep (q.v.)
The return of the Necromunda Spiders, ala the regiment kits above. Make them the new poster boys!
Finally, the return of multipart, modular character kits. Things like the Marine Captain that let you make your own commander would be mandatory for all factions. Several heads, lots of body options, every legal weapon, all on a sprue for $15-20.
I think this modest plan can be done with no more than 20 or 30 new kits, easily knocked off in an afternoon.
insaniak wrote: I would make a whole slew of new product announcements - new games, new models coming for existing ranges, re-release of all classic rulebooks, revile the Pan Fo, a return of the original Skullz program, a worldwide GT taking place on a cruise ship over the course of 18 months... none of which would actually happen, because I'm only there for a day.
I support all of these. I will buy my tickets now.
F) Female space marines would be a thing on the spot, I dont care the in-universe reason, but I would be sure to have a nice and clear public announcement that anyone that has a problem with that is no longer welcome anywhere in the GW ecosystem.
G) if I have time, I would mandate a freeze on SM model range additions, and put all that effort into reworking the factions ~~
So how exactly do your F & G combine???
Seems like anyone who'd have a problem with F wouldn't really have anything to worry about....
StudentOfEtherium wrote: i've definitely heard the idea that the space marine making process forcibly transitions any girls picked into men. would be in line with the imperium, sure, but i'm not sure it's the trans representation anyone really wants out of 40k
I 100% support this.
But personally I kind of like the idea that the Emperor and the Imperium he created are sexist SOBs and could not (and still cannot) imagine the idea of women super soldiers. They're basically like the 40s comic writers who decided the Wonder Woman (a literal champion of the Greek gods) would be the Justice Society SECRETARY and not a full member. Unlike say Wildcat who was a dude with a good right hook and a leather suit.
I realize this sort of sexism hits a bit too close to home, unlike the Gothic evils of Inquisitions, Crusades, lobotomized cyborg slaves and Exterminus, but I mean the Imperial are not the good guys.
F) Female space marines would be a thing on the spot, I dont care the in-universe reason, but I would be sure to have a nice and clear public announcement that anyone that has a problem with that is no longer welcome anywhere in the GW ecosystem.
G) if I have time, I would mandate a freeze on SM model range additions, and put all that effort into reworking the factions ~~
So how exactly do your F & G combine???
Seems like anyone who'd have a problem with F wouldn't really have anything to worry about....
Also, why bother with F if G kicks in? I thought the unbalance between SMs and SOBs as far as gendered factions went was that one is the flagship faction and the other isn't. If the SMs take a backseat and *really* become one faction amongst them, there's little reasons to want to remove the bit about them being male only.
insaniak wrote: I mean, yes, female Space Wolves would be great... but that only 'solves' the problem for the Wolves, not other Chapters, and, frankly, Russ should never return. The whole 'The hero strides off into the sunset, vowing to return in his followers' hour of greatest need!' trope works best when the hero never returns. That keeps them as a symbol of hope, while also being a secret tragedy (because, in reality, they just didn't come back because they're dead...)
I'll admit, I cheered a bit when Sigmar returned during the End Times. Before, y'know, GW confirmed they were nuking the game/setting...
That said, I'd rather not see Russ return, but that's mostly because I'm a Thousand Sons fangirl.
Kid_Kyoto wrote: First off do several regiments, aim for a 1 sprue per regiment ala the Necromunda Gangs. Each regiment would have two builds, a standard squad - 10 rifles, sarge, special and heavy weapon (did I mention we're going back to points for wargear? we're going back to points for wargear!). And the box will have one of each special and heavy.
Then a second, regiment specific, build. Catachans get Catachan Devils (flamers, poison knives, infiltrate), Tallarn get Desert Raiders/Sappers (demo charges, melta guns, infiltrate), Mordians get Honor Guard (pistols and power weapons) you get the idea. Enough extra heads to kit out the various tank and command squad bodies.
Once you go and broaden Guard to more than a few regiments it's probably a good idea to move the special and heavy weapons to an upgrade kit because they'll just be the same across regiments anyway. This way you can use the saved sprue space to put extra arms in regimental style on regiment sprues to get the look right. That should work well enough for most regiments that have bare hands or wear thin gloves. Might get the look wrong on Valhallans if you want thick mittens, though. Provide several special weapons per upgrade kit in different poses and include aligning arms in regimental kits so that every squad's plasma gun won't have the same arm pose. And of course make shoulder joints so arms are freely swappable among models again.
Which ties in with my suggestion for what I'd do if I was afforded only limited means of changing GW's various policies. I'd make it so each faction gets at least two upgrade sprues with alternative bits and decorations that can be applied to other kits to customize models. Not limit it to Marines or the small upgrade sprues most chapters get, but more along the lines of recent Marine upgrades or the Cadian upgrade sprue. My preferred change would be for GW to go back to making models as cross-compatible as possible across each range, but if I only get to change so much, that would be on the top of my list of things that can be done that won't really be intrusive or disruptive but provide notable improvement in variety.
The pseudoscience wasn't intended to placate anyone, as it was from a time before there was multiple halves of the community. It was an in-universe explanation for the models all being male, which was driven by sales in a market where the vast majority of their customers were adolescent males and the few existing female models were terrible.
It's hard to understate how much hair being difficult to do in HIPS has to do with it
Have a meeting, schedule another meeting after a month when the team has had time to think on the subjects of the meeting and the new or old lead has found their footing. I would hope to learn a tonne while in charge.
Change charge, pile-in rules and consolidation rules to no further from the nearest enemy model and no going through enemies unless you fly. Fly works on terrain. Make aircraft pivot before moving instead of after, subtract 12" from ranged attacks targeting aircraft, units with FLY are excempt.
vict0988 wrote: Have a meeting, schedule another meeting after a month when the team has had time to think on the subjects of the meeting and the new or old lead has found their footing. I would hope to learn a tonne while in charge.
Very ambitious for only getting to be in charge for 1 day....
Remove all the Primaris stuff in favour of really flavourful true scale Marines.
Somehow make the game accessible to the pocket money of kids and teens again. Wargaming in general seems to be mainly the preserve of 30 year olds with disposable money. Without newbloods, playing the game (any wargame) the future is uncertain.
vict0988 wrote: Have a meeting, schedule another meeting after a month when the team has had time to think on the subjects of the meeting and the new or old lead has found their footing. I would hope to learn a tonne while in charge.
Very ambitious for only getting to be in charge for 1 day....
Not learn a tonne of useful stuff, just things I'd be curious about that they don't shout from the rooftops. What is their release plan and how is it decided. How are codexes tested and balanced now and in the past. How random is it that 40k winrates are in such a good place right now, is this something we can expect going forward in future editions. Obviously I'm not going to learn how to run a company and I wouldn't be part of that meeting a month into the future, on the other hand I doubt I'd be able to fix how pre-release testing is done or anything on that scale in a day.
Once you go and broaden Guard to more than a few regiments it's probably a good idea to move the special and heavy weapons to an upgrade kit because they'll just be the same across regiments anyway. This way you can use the saved sprue space to put extra arms in regimental style on regiment sprues to get the look right. That should work well enough for most regiments that have bare hands or wear thin gloves. Might get the look wrong on Valhallans if you want thick mittens, though. Provide several special weapons per upgrade kit in different poses and include aligning arms in regimental kits so that every squad's plasma gun won't have the same arm pose. And of course make shoulder joints so arms are freely swappable among models again.
Which ties in with my suggestion for what I'd do if I was afforded only limited means of changing GW's various policies. I'd make it so each faction gets at least two upgrade sprues with alternative bits and decorations that can be applied to other kits to customize models. Not limit it to Marines or the small upgrade sprues most chapters get, but more along the lines of recent Marine upgrades or the Cadian upgrade sprue. My preferred change would be for GW to go back to making models as cross-compatible as possible across each range, but if I only get to change so much, that would be on the top of my list of things that can be done that won't really be intrusive or disruptive but provide notable improvement in variety.
Oh yes, there'd be an all-purpose sprue with 5 heavy weapons, 5 specials and some Sarge bits. Models would be like the Catachans where the hands are molded to the arms, not the guns, so any model can take any gun. And it would be in every infantry squad for free of course.
Oh and textured bases too!
vict0988 wrote:I can't believe I forgot upgrade costs, I don't play much 40k.
Introduce "Warhammer 40,000 The Old World", a game which has rules based on an amalgation of the first three 40K editions, emphasis on 2nd edition and its game size. Then I could finally ignore current 40K forever and just stay stuck on the 90s flavour of 40K.
Ah yes, also bring all the rules of past editions of all GW games available again (digitally). Included in the WH+ subscription of course. Old models would not be reintroduced, but their trading and collecting would be encouraged and featured in White Dwarf. Nostalghia and second hand trading is in vogue, is it not?
"the first three editions" feels like a difficult thing to make work, considering Rogue Trader, 2nd edition, and 3rd edition each had completely different sets of rules
StudentOfEtherium wrote: "the first three editions" feels like a difficult thing to make work, considering Rogue Trader, 2nd edition, and 3rd edition each had completely different sets of rules
1st and 2nd edition really werent that different from each other. Third edition is the one that takes off a lot from the first two, which would be the most difficult one to take inspiration from, I was thinking 3rd ed rules could try to be used to fill the pain points of 2nd edition (like HtH combat taking ages)
I bring up all 3 editions because somehow, a lot of peoples nostalgic feelings towards early 40K editions almost always end up naming one of these three editions.
I dont really see such a task as an impossibility. It would take heaps of experience from playing all three editions, and an ample amount of good judgement/taste. Get Rick Priestley to spar with the development and to bless the result if it turns out to his satisfaction.
Nevelon wrote: Rules/codexes are free and updated online. Print copies still exist for collectors. This will lower cost of entry for new players, and remove a barrier for older players wanting to branch out to something new.
NMNR goes out the window. Go back to an armory wargear upgrade system (and more modular points). Let people kitbash Their Dudes. Promote the modeling side of the hobby.
Work on making more options in kits, and make it so kits within a range can swap parts.
Focus on updateing old kit instead of new ones. Finish the purge of finecast.
My first thoughts exactly. Goes along with "put all legends including Forgeworld into the codizes/ online rules".
In charge of 40k for a day? I'd take all the units from every codex/army list from RT, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th edition. Combine all units where needed, and having an ultimate army list for each faction, bring back stat differences for leaders/veterans and whatnot, so you'd have like.. ws5 bs5 space marine veterans again, t5 space marine heroes again, etc.
Then I'd release a "Codex army lists" book that has the army list for each faction again, but only having generic space marine, generic chaos marine, etc, instead of basically douplicate army lists for different chapters or chaos gods.
I'd especially make sure to bring back 2nd edition weapon options for orks, so they could have shootas OR bolt guns for their units, that sort of thing.
I would make sure to start from the RT point formula for units, but properly weight the points for different stats based on statistical analysis of results, like toughness would be weighted more than strength, bs would be weighted more than ws, that sort of thing.
Then I'd release a rulebook for this custom edition of 40k, I'd try to streamline the rules and special rules to get rid of as many re-rolls as possible, and include d12's to exist for leadership rolls instead of 2d6, and replace invulnerable saves and cover saves with special modifiers to armor saves and special armor that lets you roll d12 for armor saves instead of d6. This edition would have 2nd edition style AP for modifying armor, and cover would help ignore some AP to preserve a unit's armor save, etc.
I would be tempted to allow units that exist in 6th edition and beyond to be included in these army lists, but they'd be properly scaled/pointed for their stats, and wouldn't automatically be better than older units because point for point they'd be balanced against older units.
I'd also streamline unit entries, like... instead of tactical squad and veteran squad for marines, it would just be tactical squad, with option to upgrade the squad to veterans. Then like.. assault squad with option to get upgraded to veterans, etc.
BanjoJohn wrote: In charge of 40k for a day? I'd take all the units from every codex/army list from RT, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th edition. Combine all units where needed, and having an ultimate army list for each faction, bring back stat differences for leaders/veterans and whatnot, so you'd have like.. ws5 bs5 space marine veterans again, t5 space marine heroes again, etc.
Then I'd release a "Codex army lists" book that has the army list for each faction again, but only having generic space marine, generic chaos marine, etc, instead of basically douplicate army lists for different chapters or chaos gods.
I'd especially make sure to bring back 2nd edition weapon options for orks, so they could have shootas OR bolt guns for their units, that sort of thing.
I would make sure to start from the RT point formula for units, but properly weight the points for different stats based on statistical analysis of results, like toughness would be weighted more than strength, bs would be weighted more than ws, that sort of thing.
Then I'd release a rulebook for this custom edition of 40k, I'd try to streamline the rules and special rules to get rid of as many re-rolls as possible, and include d12's to exist for leadership rolls instead of 2d6, and replace invulnerable saves and cover saves with special modifiers to armor saves and special armor that lets you roll d12 for armor saves instead of d6. This edition would have 2nd edition style AP for modifying armor, and cover would help ignore some AP to preserve a unit's armor save, etc.
I would be tempted to allow units that exist in 6th edition and beyond to be included in these army lists, but they'd be properly scaled/pointed for their stats, and wouldn't automatically be better than older units because point for point they'd be balanced against older units.
I'd also streamline unit entries, like... instead of tactical squad and veteran squad for marines, it would just be tactical squad, with option to upgrade the squad to veterans. Then like.. assault squad with option to get upgraded to veterans, etc.
Gibblets wrote: Find the file that contains the info for the competitive game and delete it. Not recycle bin, Melt the hard drive it's stored on... with a blow torch.
Because they’re having fun WRONG, don’t you see? /s
The original Ash Waste Nomads for Necromunda (Tallarn Models), Tim Huckleberry's 3rd ed. GSC list and the Covert X campaign... Some of the best work to ever come out of the studio. I used to have 10 or so issues, but now only one (Covert X) remains.
Also silly as the competitive community produces so much information GW already has no idea what to do with it. And it is all over the internet, good luck trying to melt that.
Also silly as the competitive community produces so much information GW already has no idea what to do with it. And it is all over the internet, good luck trying to melt that.
And, used wisely, that info is objectively good for the game.
A particular list showing up with alarming frequency on the top tables? Something clearly isn’t quite right there. And the other data gathered can help understand that (wonky, ambiguous rule wording? Unforeseen interaction with objective scoring? Just way too hard and way too cheap? Other? All?) and so address it via FAQ, Errata etc.
I’ll leave others to comment on whether GW has used it wisely of course.
So this would be impossible to do in a day, but were I in charge of GW, at this point I would just soft reboot 40K.
All the accumulated lore has become more of an hindrance than an asset. Broad strokes will remain the same, but we will just blatantly change stuff that needs changing and do not care if it contradicts what has come before. This is a new version.
In many ways I would return 40K lore to what it was in Rogue Trader and and in the early editions. This is mostly about depiction, but we can makes some concrete lore changes to support this as well.
Imperium is not a good thing, and it will be depicted that way. Primarchs are gone, and space marines are de-emphasised. They also return to be gritty penal legionaries that are feared and hated, instead of venerated shiny semi-divine knights. And this actually allows them to be heroic on occasion, without seeming too much like fascist propaganda, as they too are just one lowly cog in a terrible machine. And female space marines have always existed of course.
Same logic with the rest of the Imperium. Top tiers that are more in charge are just outright evil stupid and corrupt. Little or no redeeming features, we want the satire to be so clear that even Americans understand it. There can be some heroism and other redeeming qualities on lower tiers.
And while we are at it, let's introduce a human (though they can have xenos allies) mercenary/rebel faction. They're a massive underdog, but this allows them to actually be "good guys" without it becoming problematic.
As for other factions, make chaos more relatable. Like not good by any means, but more like it was in Fantasy. Like if you don't look at Imperium and think that chaos actually has a point, then we're doing this wrong. Others are probably mostly fine, though the Eldar situation could probably use a rewrite, it has become unnecessarily convoluted with the Ynnari and all.
F) Female space marines would be a thing on the spot, I dont care the in-universe reason, but I would be sure to have a nice and clear public announcement that anyone that has a problem with that is no longer welcome anywhere in the GW ecosystem.
G) if I have time, I would mandate a freeze on SM model range additions, and put all that effort into reworking the factions ~~
So how exactly do your F & G combine???
Seems like anyone who'd have a problem with F wouldn't really have anything to worry about....
Also, why bother with F if G kicks in? I thought the unbalance between SMs and SOBs as far as gendered factions went was that one is the flagship faction and the other isn't. If the SMs take a backseat and *really* become one faction amongst them, there's little reasons to want to remove the bit about them being male only.
do....do your models have to have boobs to be women or
I see a lot of good ideas, but there is an outlet available.
Russ and the End Times.
You could use this to clean house, remove the models, storyline that don't work, and blame the cosmic restart on anything from Tzeentchy tomfoolery to the nuttiness of Orkameides... anything is possible.
When it's over, just like Valhalla isn't truly the end, you can start a new age. Put Magnus on the throne, play with a lot of the "future lore" and enjoy the experience which is Warhammer.
The whole FSM is mostly a byproduct of the heavily SM centric lore and game.
No, it's a byproduct of being a game from the 80s that was supposed to be a parody of horrible people doing horrible things. I accept that GW can't sell that idea in this day in age, and therefore, the stupid gak like "no girls allowed" (which makes no sense and never has lore-wise) needs to go. Sidelining SM to give some TLC to everyone thats currently being neglected does not change this need whatsoever. And before we get into the loop about "Male SOB," no, I don't care if the SOB has dudes.
Gender never should have mattered in an all-out war grimdark setting, just as something as inane as eye or hair color does not. I promote my FSM point to letter C.
Crimson wrote: Primarchs are gone, and space marines are de-emphasised. They also return to be gritty penal legionaries that are feared and hated, instead of venerated shiny semi-divine knights. And this actually allows them to be heroic on occasion, without seeming too much like fascist propaganda, as they too are just one lowly cog in a terrible machine. And female space marines have always existed of course.
While I understand the sentiment behind it, I think as a goal 'de-emphasising' the space marines is going to be like nailing jelly to a tree. They're always going to be the most popular faction in the game, and the background should lean into that... The problem with the current background is that having the marines as a precious and limited resource doesn't jibe with the tabletop, where they're everywhere. So yes, return marines to their roots, but have them be the primary military arm of the Imperium. That explains why they are everywhere, and also lessens their hero status and that of the Imperium, by presenting an organisation that uses criminals as their representatives to the wider galaxy, and is structured in a way that produces a lot of them...
Guard become more of a planetary or system-wide set-up, basically replacing the current PDF, but capable of being co-opted by sector Warmasters and deployed around the galaxy when necessary to bolster other Imperial forces (also feeding into the Marine forces as this would be widely unpopular, leading to desertion and mutiny, leading to conscription into the Marines).
The whole FSM is mostly a byproduct of the heavily SM centric lore and game.
No, it's a byproduct of being a game from the 80s that was supposed to be a parody of horrible people doing horrible things. I accept that GW can't sell that idea in this day in age, and therefore, the stupid gak like "no girls allowed" (which makes no sense and never has lore-wise) needs to go.
The lack of female space marines was never anything to do with the setting being about horrible people doing horrible things. It was sales driven, by GW taking people not wanting some truly awful models as a sign that the predominantly male customer base didn't want female models at all.
Crimson wrote: Primarchs are gone, and space marines are de-emphasised. They also return to be gritty penal legionaries that are feared and hated, instead of venerated shiny semi-divine knights. And this actually allows them to be heroic on occasion, without seeming too much like fascist propaganda, as they too are just one lowly cog in a terrible machine. And female space marines have always existed of course.
While I understand the sentiment behind it, I think as a goal 'de-emphasising' the space marines is going to be like nailing jelly to a tree. They're always going to be the most popular faction in the game, and the background should lean into that... The problem with the current background is that having the marines as a precious and limited resource doesn't jibe with the tabletop, where they're everywhere. So yes, return marines to their roots, but have them be the primary military arm of the Imperium. That explains why they are everywhere, and also lessens their hero status and that of the Imperium, by presenting an organisation that uses criminals as their representatives to the wider galaxy, and is structured in a way that produces a lot of them...
Guard become more of a planetary or system-wide set-up, basically replacing the current PDF, but capable of being co-opted by sector Warmasters and deployed around the galaxy when necessary to bolster other Imperial forces (also feeding into the Marine forces as this would be widely unpopular, leading to desertion and mutiny, leading to conscription into the Marines).
I really like this idea. 30k fluff made them out to be the main thing as well. It's also inefficient to ferry around cannon fodder on space ships, using regular ships to mobilize a billion souls on a Hive World to war, makes total sense, relatively cheap compared to even getting a hundred thousand soldiers from another world.
F) Female space marines would be a thing on the spot, I dont care the in-universe reason, but I would be sure to have a nice and clear public announcement that anyone that has a problem with that is no longer welcome anywhere in the GW ecosystem.
I got a problem with that statement and I'm unpleasantly surprised it did not get more backlash so far.
"Female Space Marines will be ruled out categorically. This will never change in the future and everybody who got a problem with that is no longer welcome anywhere in the GW ecosystem."
Do you get how silly this reads? Broadly speaking, I would oppose the introduction of FSM into the setting, but I got no problem with people who think otherwise or bring FSM models to a game.
Your statement is needlessly antagonistic and won't do anything to reconcile the two groups. You know, not everybody is against FSM because they want to keep girls out of the game or other misogynistic reasons.
F) Female space marines would be a thing on the spot, I dont care the in-universe reason, but I would be sure to have a nice and clear public announcement that anyone that has a problem with that is no longer welcome anywhere in the GW ecosystem.
I got a problem with that statement and I'm unpleasantly surprised it did not get more backlash so far.
"Female Space Marines will be ruled out categorically. This will never change in the future and everybody who got a problem with that is no longer welcome anywhere in the GW ecosystem."
Do you get how silly this reads? Broadly speaking, I would oppose the introduction of FSM into the setting, but I got no problem with people who think otherwise or bring FSM models to a game.
Your statement is needlessly antagonistic and won't do anything to reconcile the two groups. You know, not everybody is against FSM because they want to keep girls out of the game or other misogynistic reasons.
Trying to use a false equivalence is not going to support your argument.
Youre trying to say that a position of inclusion is just as bad as one of exclusion which is ridiculous and few people should take seriously. We live under rules that make it illegal to exclude people as part of our social contract, people are included every day that weren't 40 years ago.
You can make absolutely any argument you want to justify deliberate exclusion that doesn't invoke conscious and deliberate misogyny, but it's ultimate outcome is exclusion. Women were excluded from riding trains when they first appeared, not because men hated them and didn't want them to have access to trains, but because they believed through a culture of systemic unconscious sexism that women were inferior and trains would be dangerous to their delicate constitutions.
Plenty of exclusionary practice has been performed from a perception of benevolence, which is why your intentions don't matter, because it's not you that has to suffer the consequences of said exclusions. Doing it with a smile is irrelevant.
But nobody gets excluded from playing Warhammer right now?
If people would only play the game if they see themselves represented, then no man would play Sororitas and nobody would play Demons and Xenos.
I find it highly ironic that you accuse me of having a position of exclusion while defending a statement that literally calls for people to be excluded as inclusive at the same time.
Crimson wrote: Primarchs are gone, and space marines are de-emphasised. They also return to be gritty penal legionaries that are feared and hated, instead of venerated shiny semi-divine knights. And this actually allows them to be heroic on occasion, without seeming too much like fascist propaganda, as they too are just one lowly cog in a terrible machine. And female space marines have always existed of course.
While I understand the sentiment behind it, I think as a goal 'de-emphasising' the space marines is going to be like nailing jelly to a tree. They're always going to be the most popular faction in the game, and the background should lean into that... The problem with the current background is that having the marines as a precious and limited resource doesn't jibe with the tabletop, where they're everywhere. So yes, return marines to their roots, but have them be the primary military arm of the Imperium. That explains why they are everywhere, and also lessens their hero status and that of the Imperium, by presenting an organisation that uses criminals as their representatives to the wider galaxy, and is structured in a way that produces a lot of them...
Guard become more of a planetary or system-wide set-up, basically replacing the current PDF, but capable of being co-opted by sector Warmasters and deployed around the galaxy when necessary to bolster other Imperial forces (also feeding into the Marine forces as this would be widely unpopular, leading to desertion and mutiny, leading to conscription into the Marines).
Good point actually. I wouldn't go as far as making them so common that they displace IG to PDF status, but they could cease to be this ultra rare super special thing they currently are.
And while we are it, lets increase the chapter sizes at least tenfold. Thousand marines is just laughable number. And no, do not increase the amount of ships they have, just increase their carrying capacities as the current ones make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Increase both Chapter sizes but also Chapter numbers.
I wouldn't be surprised if we put all Space Marine players that play a custom Chapter together in the world we would run out of spaces for custom Chapters.
F) Female space marines would be a thing on the spot, I dont care the in-universe reason, but I would be sure to have a nice and clear public announcement that anyone that has a problem with that is no longer welcome anywhere in the GW ecosystem.
I got a problem with that statement and I'm unpleasantly surprised it did not get more backlash so far.
"Female Space Marines will be ruled out categorically. This will never change in the future and everybody who got a problem with that is no longer welcome anywhere in the GW ecosystem."
Do you get how silly this reads? Broadly speaking, I would oppose the introduction of FSM into the setting, but I got no problem with people who think otherwise or bring FSM models to a game.
Your statement is needlessly antagonistic and won't do anything to reconcile the two groups. You know, not everybody is against FSM because they want to keep girls out of the game or other misogynistic reasons.
Trying to use a false equivalence is not going to support your argument.
Youre trying to say that a position of inclusion is just as bad as one of exclusion which is ridiculous and few people should take seriously. We live under rules that make it illegal to exclude people as part of our social contract, people are included every day that weren't 40 years ago.
You can make absolutely any argument you want to justify deliberate exclusion that doesn't invoke conscious and deliberate misogyny, but it's ultimate outcome is exclusion. Women were excluded from riding trains when they first appeared, not because men hated them and didn't want them to have access to trains, but because they believed through a culture of systemic unconscious sexism that women were inferior and trains would be dangerous to their delicate constitutions.
Plenty of exclusionary practice has been performed from a perception of benevolence, which is why your intentions don't matter, because it's not you that has to suffer the consequences of said exclusions. Doing it with a smile is irrelevant.
You could extend the same thing to every other group. Why can't Space Marines accept crippled dwarfs? Because it makes no sense for a superhuman martial brotherhood in a fascist space empire to do so. You cannot have a cohesive setting without exclusion, that means excluding melee units from Tau, excluding women from the hyper-masculine Space Marines, excluding breathing units from the Necrons, excluding Psykers from World Eaters. If you include everything in every faction you don't have distinct factions which makes the setting and game far less interesting.
Trying to shove in representation everywhere isn't as good a stance as wanting different factions to be distinct, it's much worse, completely without merit. That's not to say that Femarines is an idea without merit (it being biologically impossible is silly), but saying that these kinds of ideas should always be implemented and never criticized is wrong. I'm okay with there being female Space Marines, like a couple of dozen across the galaxy, write a book series about one of them, let people make custom chapters that only have women, but Space Wolves should not canonically be 1/2 or even 1/9 women. Equating this belief with racism, misogyny or being a Tau player and wanting me to leave the hobby for it is also wrong and is not as good a stance as saying that we can all have different opinions on the merits of including Femarines.
Most women are far more delicate than most men. You can invoke whatever you want but there are biological differences between men and women and the fantasy of Space Marines builds on these differences to make something super manly. Even if you had Space Marines that were technically female the difference would be almost irrelevant because Space Marines are biologically and socially engineered to be as manly as possible. As much value as it brings socially to show girlpower with Femarines, as much benefit I say it has to uphold the lore the game has had for over a decade that Space Marines are men and it fits the aesthetic appeal of the manly faction to be purely male. Art matters too, you can't have Mona Lisa if every painting has to include every gender and ethnicity.
Excluding women from sitting on trains is not the same thing as representation. I welcome women to the hobby, even if they have bad taste and want Femarines or play Tau. Excluding exclusionary people is still exclusion, you just have to accept that sometimes exclusion is good, like when you're excluding Nazis or people that demand everything be rainbow coloured or people that call you names if you disagree with them.
I'd organise a massive raid of concept art and republish the old art books and then have a bunch of new ones put into publication with loads of awesome art and concept art.
I'd also make it policy that art/concept art books must be put on regular production cycles not "one and done" .
I'd also ban ALL double page spread artwork across the entire company. (I mean I'd make that a freaking law for ANY firm publishing art - I loath opening up an artbook and there's an amazing bit of art with the entire focal point of the middle utterly ruined because its going into the middle of the page - unless you crack the spine and break the book)
I'd organise a massive raid of concept art and republish the old art books and then have a bunch of new ones put into publication with loads of awesome art and concept art.
I'd also make it policy that art/concept art books must be put on regular production cycles not "one and done" .
I'd also ban ALL double page spread artwork across the entire company. (I mean I'd make that a freaking law for ANY firm publishing art - I loath opening up an artbook and there's an amazing bit of art with the entire focal point of the middle utterly ruined because its going into the middle of the page - unless you crack the spine and break the book)
I think that's a great idea, but I'd release books in paperback so more people could afford them, not just the 100£ special hardbacks.
F) Female space marines would be a thing on the spot, I dont care the in-universe reason, but I would be sure to have a nice and clear public announcement that anyone that has a problem with that is no longer welcome anywhere in the GW ecosystem.
I got a problem with that statement and I'm unpleasantly surprised it did not get more backlash so far.
"Female Space Marines will be ruled out categorically. This will never change in the future and everybody who got a problem with that is no longer welcome anywhere in the GW ecosystem."
Do you get how silly this reads? Broadly speaking, I would oppose the introduction of FSM into the setting, but I got no problem with people who think otherwise or bring FSM models to a game.
Your statement is needlessly antagonistic and won't do anything to reconcile the two groups. You know, not everybody is against FSM because they want to keep girls out of the game or other misogynistic reasons.
Trying to use a false equivalence is not going to support your argument.
Youre trying to say that a position of inclusion is just as bad as one of exclusion which is ridiculous and few people should take seriously. We live under rules that make it illegal to exclude people as part of our social contract, people are included every day that weren't 40 years ago.
You can make absolutely any argument you want to justify deliberate exclusion that doesn't invoke conscious and deliberate misogyny, but it's ultimate outcome is exclusion. Women were excluded from riding trains when they first appeared, not because men hated them and didn't want them to have access to trains, but because they believed through a culture of systemic unconscious sexism that women were inferior and trains would be dangerous to their delicate constitutions.
Plenty of exclusionary practice has been performed from a perception of benevolence, which is why your intentions don't matter, because it's not you that has to suffer the consequences of said exclusions. Doing it with a smile is irrelevant.
You could extend the same thing to every other group. Why can't Space Marines accept crippled dwarfs? Because it makes no sense for a superhuman martial brotherhood in a fascist space empire to do so. You cannot have a cohesive setting without exclusion, that means excluding melee units from Tau, excluding women from the hyper-masculine Space Marines, excluding breathing units from the Necrons, excluding Psykers from World Eaters. If you include everything in every faction you don't have distinct factions which makes the setting and game far less interesting.
Trying to shove in representation everywhere isn't as good a stance as wanting different factions to be distinct, it's much worse, completely without merit. That's not to say that Femarines is an idea without merit (it being biologically impossible is silly), but saying that these kinds of ideas should always be implemented and never criticized is wrong. I'm okay with there being female Space Marines, like a couple of dozen across the galaxy, write a book series about one of them, let people make custom chapters that only have women, but Space Wolves should not canonically be 1/2 or even 1/9 women. Equating this belief with racism, misogyny or being a Tau player and wanting me to leave the hobby for it is also wrong and is not as good a stance as saying that we can all have different opinions on the merits of including Femarines.
Most women are far more delicate than most men. You can invoke whatever you want but there are biological differences between men and women and the fantasy of Space Marines builds on these differences to make something super manly. Even if you had Space Marines that were technically female the difference would be almost irrelevant because Space Marines are biologically and socially engineered to be as manly as possible. As much value as it brings socially to show girlpower with Femarines, as much benefit I say it has to uphold the lore the game has had for over a decade that Space Marines are men and it fits the aesthetic appeal of the manly faction to be purely male. Art matters too, you can't have Mona Lisa if every painting has to include every gender and ethnicity.
Excluding women from sitting on trains is not the same thing as representation. I welcome women to the hobby, even if they have bad taste and want Femarines or play Tau. Excluding exclusionary people is still exclusion, you just have to accept that sometimes exclusion is good, like when you're excluding Nazis or people that demand everything be rainbow coloured or people that call you names if you disagree with them.
Blood Angels (one of the biggest Marine subfactions) takes cripples for their initiates.
And I'd like to point out that your exclusions are either something that's not inherent or even real (melee units and pyskers) or so broad as to encompass literally every human (breathing units). Except for women.
vipoid wrote: Out of curiosity, for those arguing for female Space Marines, are you also in favour of male Sisters of Battle and male Daughters of Khaine?
If those were flagship factions that would get about as much attention than the rest of the factions combined, then I definitely would.
vipoid wrote: Out of curiosity, for those arguing for female Space Marines, are you also in favour of male Sisters of Battle and male Daughters of Khaine?
I don't know enough about Daughters of Khaine or Sigmar in general to have input.
For Misters of Battle? I don't think it's needed, but if that's the requirement for female Marines, then sure.
There's a big difference between not excluding a historically and, to a sad extent presently, discriminated against half of the population in the flagship faction; and including men in a non-flagship faction.
There's a big difference between not excluding a historically and, to a sad extent presently, discriminated against half of the population in the flagship faction; and including men in a non-flagship faction.
I find this a baffling argument. And I say this as someone with no horse in this race.
You clearly don't care about factions in 40k or AoS being female-only, yet somehow a faction being male-only is an absolute travesty.
I've seen people say that this is a holdover from the 80s, but if anything I would have thought it would be a holdover from the entirety of human history, where (barring some very rare exceptions) armies were exclusively male.
The fact that Space Marines are hyper-masculine (or at least a 12-year-old's idea of hyper-masculine) to a cartoonish degree would also seem to lend itself to them being all-male, irrespective of any lore regarding the creation process.
Moreover, you seem to be equating having a male-only faction in a completely fictional, sci-fi army to real-world discrimination, which is absolute nonsense.
Not only that, but "not sending women into an eternal meat-grinder to witness and commit untold atrocities, with the only end being an agonising death at the hands of any one of the nightmarish creatures they fight" is somehow equated to discriminating against women.
There's a big difference between not excluding a historically and, to a sad extent presently, discriminated against half of the population in the flagship faction; and including men in a non-flagship faction.
I find this a baffling argument. And I say this as someone with no horse in this race.
You clearly don't care about factions in 40k or AoS being female-only, yet somehow a faction being male-only is an absolute travesty.
I've seen people say that this is a holdover from the 80s, but if anything I would have thought it would be a holdover from the entirety of human history, where (barring some very rare exceptions) armies were exclusively male.
The fact that Space Marines are hyper-masculine (or at least a 12-year-old's idea of hyper-masculine) to a cartoonish degree would also seem to lend itself to them being all-male, irrespective of any lore regarding the creation process.
Moreover, you seem to be equating having a male-only faction in a completely fictional, sci-fi army to real-world discrimination, which is absolute nonsense.
Not only that, but "not sending women into an eternal meat-grinder to witness and commit untold atrocities, with the only end being an agonising death at the hands of any one of the nightmarish creatures they fight" is somehow equated to discriminating against women.
The single biggest 40k faction excluding half the population, in a way that impacts the real world by people using it as an excuse to be actually exclusive and discriminatory towards women is different from a much smaller faction being women-only.
Including female Marines wouldn't make the Imperium a better place-if anything, it shows they literally do not care. Doesn't matter who you are, you're getting surgeries, genemodding, and then being sent to war.
But it could very well make the actual hobby a better place.
JNAProductions wrote: The single biggest 40k faction excluding half the population, in a way that impacts the real world by people using it as an excuse to be actually exclusive and discriminatory towards women is different from a much smaller faction being women-only.
I honestly have no clue what you are talking about with this.
Yeah I was hoping it wouldn't turn into this after the first few mentions.
. . .
I like Tyranid Warriors! I like that they're (or at least used to be beforethe various scale inflations) on a different scale than the baseline unit of all other races.
JNAProductions wrote: The single biggest 40k faction excluding half the population, in a way that impacts the real world by people using it as an excuse to be actually exclusive and discriminatory towards women is different from a much smaller faction being women-only.
I honestly have no clue what you are talking about with this.
i'm a woman who always feels at least somewhat alienated in the hobby because of the FSM issue. am i not in the real world?
JNAProductions wrote: Blood Angels (one of the biggest Marine subfactions) takes cripples for their initiates.
And I'd like to point out that your exclusions are either something that's not inherent or even real (melee units and pyskers) or so broad as to encompass literally every human (breathing units). Except for women.
Do you have a source for that claim? I'd take anything, Youtube video, Lexicanum, something you remember reading in an old Codex or White Dwarf. The only thing I could find was an old Reddit thread were one aspirant had been accepted despite being crippled or something like that.
I am not sure why the realness is relevant. But Space Marines with dwarfism would also be counter to the idea of them being 8 foot tall macho killing machines assuming dwarf Marines were 5 feet tall. The Imperium might even kill people with dwarfism or those born crippled, I don't know. I wouldn't want migrant child Space Marines either. Like Benny the migrant Blooddrinker who managed to get through his process in record time so he's 12 years old and a Space Marine Captain, he also crossed some kind of border on Baal and got separated from his family. Women don't make great special forces operatives, maybe I will be proven wrong like all the bigots who thought women couldn't be scientists, doctors, lawyers, you name it but right now my view of the evidence available to me says women Space Marines don't make sense from a logical or artistic point of view, it only makes sense from a progressive political point of view. I don't want Warhammer to be a space for pushing progressive politics, if you just wanted more female players you could make a new cute faction and make Sororitas the postergirls for 40k, instead of inserting in token roid girls into Space Marines.
JNAProductions wrote: The single biggest 40k faction excluding half the population, in a way that impacts the real world by people using it as an excuse to be actually exclusive and discriminatory towards women is different from a much smaller faction being women-only.
I honestly have no clue what you are talking about with this.
i'm a woman who always feels at least somewhat alienated in the hobby because of the FSM issue. am i not in the real world?
Has someone discriminated against you or excluded you because of the lack of FSM? Or do you just not feel welcome because of a lack of FSM? I get that the hobby might feel unwelcoming and there are certainly gits out there who won't welcome you because of your gender, but I don't think FSM would change those people's stance on you being welcome or not.
I am not sure why the realness is relevant. But Space Marines with dwarfism would also be counter to the idea of them being 8 foot tall macho killing machines assuming dwarf Marines were 5 feet tall.
Seems fine to me, then people could use their old minimarine models to represent them!
The Imperium might even kill people with dwarfism or those born crippled, I don't know. I wouldn't want migrant child Space Marines either. Like Benny the migrant Blooddrinker who managed to get through his process in record time so he's 12 years old and a Space Marine Captain, he also crossed some kind of border on Baal and got separated from his family. Women don't make great special forces operatives, maybe I will be proven wrong like all the bigots who thought women couldn't be scientists, doctors, lawyers, you name it but right now my view of the evidence available to me says women Space Marines don't make sense from a logical or artistic point of view, it only makes sense from a progressive political point of view. I don't want Warhammer to be a space for pushing progressive politics, if you just wanted more female players you could make a new cute faction and make Sororitas the postergirls for 40k, instead of inserting in token roid girls into Space Marines.
Mate. They use chainsaws as weapons. It is made up and never made any sense. If the writer says that female marines work, then that doesn't lessen the sensemakery of the setting one bit.
JNAProductions wrote: The single biggest 40k faction excluding half the population, in a way that impacts the real world by people using it as an excuse to be actually exclusive and discriminatory towards women is different from a much smaller faction being women-only.
I honestly have no clue what you are talking about with this.
i'm a woman who always feels at least somewhat alienated in the hobby because of the FSM issue. am i not in the real world?
Notwithstanding the fact that that wasn't actually the claim being made in the post you quoted, could you explain why you feel alienated?
Tyran wrote: Once upon a time I wanted FSM as I used to be amongst the dumbasses that tried to frame the Emperor, the Great Crusade and early IoM as justified.
Nowadays I just accept the Emperor was misogynistic (and an idiot), makes the hyper masculine boys only SM easier to accept.
That doesn't really jive with the setting, though.
The Imperium of Man has tons of issues. But modern-day bigotries don't number among them.
They are callous, brutal, stagnant... But they aren't (as a whole) sexist or racist or anything like that.
Tyran wrote: Once upon a time I wanted FSM as I used to be amongst the dumbasses that tried to frame the Emperor, the Great Crusade and early IoM as justified.
Nowadays I just accept the Emperor was misogynistic (and an idiot), makes the hyper masculine boys only SM easier to accept.
That doesn't really jive with the setting, though.
The Imperium of Man has tons of issues. But modern-day bigotries don't number among them.
They are callous, brutal, stagnant... But they aren't (as a whole) sexist or racist or anything like that.
"Excuse me, sir - we may be murderous, fanatical, xenophobic, genocidal maniacs, but we're not racist."
JNAProductions wrote: That doesn't really jive with the setting, though. The Imperium of Man has tons of issues. But modern-day bigotries don't number among them.
They are callous, brutal, stagnant... But they aren't (as a whole) sexist or racist or anything like that.
My point isn't that the IoM is sexist.
My point is that the Emperor was sexist. The non-sexist nature of the IoM is a happy accident, just like how its theocratic nature is a blatant deviation from the Emperor's blatant radical and violent atheism.
And that's probably more than enough of the same arguments over female space marines. Take it somewhere else and let's get this thread back on topic, hmm?
And while we are it, lets increase the chapter sizes at least tenfold. Thousand marines is just laughable number. And no, do not increase the amount of ships they have, just increase their carrying capacities as the current ones make absolutely no sense whatsoever.
Is the thousand marine cap even still a thing? I mean, it was always somewhat malleable, but the addition of Primaris Marines would seem to have stretched things somewhat.
But yes, Chapters should have always been considerably more than a thousand. That number was supposed to represent their super-elite status, but on a galactic scale it really just makes them seem largely insignificant, and makes Chapters far too vulnerable from casualties in protracted or particularly brutal conflicts.
But yes, Chapters should have always been considerably more than a thousand. That number was supposed to represent their super-elite status, but on a galactic scale it really just makes them seem largely insignificant, and makes Chapters far too vulnerable from casualties in protracted or particularly brutal conflicts.
I honestly think that was kind of the point, both in-universe and out. In universe because of the breaking up the legions into smaller, less threatening bands. And out-of-universe because the galaxy IS really big, and the sandbox allowed for world-thratening dramatic events to take place using smallish forces, but the galactic narrative would grind on with hardly a notice.
Honestly I think if you want Xenos and old style marines forget 30K think 20K or rather think Grand Cruade.
THAT would be WAY more fun. You get LOADS of marines and Primarchs to play with and you get ALL the myriad of species of Xenos that got wiped out.
Now granted you know most of those Xenos will die off or at least be pushed into the fringes of space (hint hint fringes of space and hiding means they could return in 40K). but it gives you so much creative freedom on the Xenos side of things. You can go utterly Age of Sigmar levels of wild faction creation because you've the whole populated Galaxy to suddenly play with.
Sure you know the grand narrative is that the Imperium, broadly, wins. You know that the Abominable Intelligence machines will rise up and cause trouble; that the Primarchs will eventually half fall to Chaos along with their Legions.
However in the here and now you've a brutal struggle as the Imperium stretches its wings and charges forth whilst brave Xenos fight to the bitter end. Eldar and Orks are steadfast going to survive; others will get beaten down ;but there's so many stories you can build into that.
Overread wrote: Honestly I think if you want Xenos and old style marines forget 30K think 20K or rather think Grand Cruade.
THAT would be WAY more fun. You get LOADS of marines and Primarchs to play with and you get ALL the myriad of species of Xenos that got wiped out.
Now granted you know most of those Xenos will die off or at least be pushed into the fringes of space (hint hint fringes of space and hiding means they could return in 40K). but it gives you so much creative freedom on the Xenos side of things. You can go utterly Age of Sigmar levels of wild faction creation because you've the whole populated Galaxy to suddenly play with.
Sure you know the grand narrative is that the Imperium, broadly, wins. You know that the Abominable Intelligence machines will rise up and cause trouble; that the Primarchs will eventually half fall to Chaos along with their Legions.
However in the here and now you've a brutal struggle as the Imperium stretches its wings and charges forth whilst brave Xenos fight to the bitter end. Eldar and Orks are steadfast going to survive; others will get beaten down ;but there's so many stories you can build into that.
That's a much better idea! I'm putting you in charge of Game Design on my imaginary staff!
Something that I would love to do, is the Ages of the Eldar.
There's 60 million years between the eldar fall and the war in heaven. So much would have happened during those years, galactic shaking events on a scale the imperium has never seen. It would be amazing to see what was happening then.
Imagine Ascendant Eldar vs Prime Krorks having DBZ wars across the stars.
I would love to see the era of decline, as the eldar have everything and start to fall. The kind of tech they would use to have fun with - teleporting force field safari suits to go hunting humans for fun, diving into suns and surfing the plasma waves.
The eldar robot armies that formed an unending wall around all their holdings so they could ignore what everyone else was doing and concentrate on their debauchery.
I envisage massive robots like the titans and larger, with warp engines built in powering automatic wraithbone factories that just channel warp and build new robots in unending waves upon waves.
Basically Master Mould from Xmen, they just iron giant fly around to different worlds, land and start pumping out unending waves of robots that use warp cannons and void spinner wraithbone parasites to annihilate everyone.
IMO the only reason humanity exists is because the eldar's ability to scour a planet was so thorough and continuous that they keep the orks in check for millions of years.
And the orks, well their tech tends to mirror who they are fighting, currently it's all imperial and looted imperial. But when they are looting ascended eldar tech and haven't degenerated as much, well it would look spectacular.
chaos0xomega wrote: Huh? Werent the Krork created to help the Eldar fight the Necrons?
the old ones made them both to fight the necrons, not to create peaceful empires. Do you think they would be friends for 60 million years and then poof! orks who fight everyone?
Everything that is an ork came from the krork. So unless for some reason krork don't reproduce by spores, have inherent psychic gestalt fields that generate violent frenzies or genetic knowledge on how to do things, they would be a hyper violent apex predator in the galaxy with no enemy to fight and the ability to spawn feral populations on any planet their spores appeared.
How long do you think it would take for them to try and fight anyone else that was left? The way orks are genetically encoded to need to fight, it's a fair assumption that the krork were a shake and bake, fire and forget eternal war weapon, that just keeps fighting. I'm sure the old ones had some kind of kill switch to stop them once they'd done their jobs, but they all died and the krork spread across the galaxy unchecked, except for the other ascendant species at the time, the eldar.
Even if you go with a generous friendly period, a 'golden age' of hand holding after the war in heaven, for a mind boggling 30 million years, you've still got 30 million more for violent warfare. I find it hard to believe that the 40kgalaxy (of all galaxies) only saw massive scale warfare 60 million years ago and for the last 30,000 in the current timeline. 6000 imperium lifespans exist in the gap and I can't take the notion seriously that no all out wars that didn't include humans, old ones or necrons occurred. It's a very biased approach that only the cool wars worth covering occurred with the imperium involved.
Also given that the war in heaven was original the eldar's war with their gods, and not the necrons, only retconned and stolen from their mythology, the eldar have been at war plenty of times in their long history.
Krork aren’t necessarily Ork, particularly given the millions of years between the time of Old Ones and C’Tan, and now.
Krorks may be an ancestral species to modern Orks, but really, we’ve never had a firm description of the Krork culture or physiology to the best of my knowledge.
The similarity of the words are of course a sneaky suggestion, but carries no more weight in terms of evidence than claiming Which? Magazine is a monthly tome of consumer spells and rituals.
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote: Krork aren’t necessarily Ork, particularly given the millions of years between the time of Old Ones and C’Tan, and now.
Krorks may be an ancestral species to modern Orks, but really, we’ve never had a firm description of the Krork culture or physiology to the best of my knowledge.
The similarity of the words are of course a sneaky suggestion, but carries no more weight in terms of evidence than claiming Which? Magazine is a monthly tome of consumer spells and rituals.
the krork being the ancestors of the orks is a classic GW 'warhammer mystery in nothing but name' so I don't really entertain any of that. Virtually no rumour GW ever published in their background ever turned out to be wrong. They've spent the last decade mining all those explicit mysteries into tangible truths.
So yeah, the krork are the brain boyz and somehow they genetically degenerated into the orks. Probably because the old ones were pumping out species to fight for them very fast and weren't trying to QC what they made. They needed an endlessly reproducing meat shield that could fight forever, they didn't care whether they were genetically stable or not, because they probably weren't supposed to survive the war anyway.
Only the eldar seem to have been a creation with deliberate longevity.
I always saw Orks as a "balancer" force. That is Orks don't want to just win in a fight. They want a brawl. A drawn out battle with lots of fighting which is tooth and nail bitingly close to who might win or lose.
Their whole society and structure needs challenge to fight against to maintain numbers and order. Without it they fight with themselves.
I figure the Krork were similar. Bio-engineered to rise to any challenge that the Old Ones put them against. BUT with the limit that the Orks wouldn't go beyond that challenge. They'd win and then if there was nothing else they baiscally internalise and start shutting down their advanced weapons. You can't have a good scrap if you win in 1second with a doomsday weapon.
Just the ideal bioweapon to throw at your foes and which, importantly, won't come out stronger and then come after you! Just isolate them and wait for them to settle down.
So perhaps the only difference is that the Galaxy was way more dangerous in the time of Krorks. Then when there was nothing else they devolved and weakened into what we consider Orks. Without the guidance of the Old Ones to direct them and focus their efforts; with the influence of Gork and Mork in the Warp; you've got yourself a "balancing" faction that will always rise to the challenge, but which lacks the grand view to really conquer the Galaxy.
At least unless things get so risky and so dangerous that one Ork arises to lead a Waaagh that's greater than any before and can sustain its momentum at the grand scale.
What likely happened is that the Aeldari kicked the Krork's colective butt so hard, exterminated them so brutally that natural presure favored smaller more primitive "orks" that could survive just by being ignored.
That is my supposition. The eldar had the grand strategy, warp magic and technology to keep the krork in check.
If you look at the background of the voidspinner superheavy, the weaver fires monofilament with wraithbone parasites designed to strip a planet down to the rock, sterilising all organic life ready for regrowing as a maiden world.
That kind of device would be able ot root out ork spores, because the parasites are seeking out and destroying each tiny bit of organic life they can find, so no spore would be safe.
Which is why I would argue the majority of modern 40k's species even exist - the eldar kept the krorks/orks contained and prevented their spores from colonising and destroying ecosystems across the galaxy.
If spores landed on earth anytime between 60 million years ago and now, humanity's ancestors would have been killed or eaten before they ever developed fire.
The combination of eldar psychic engines which draw limitless warp energy to power themselves indefinitely, and wraithbone, which itself is made from warp energy solidified, you have a tech base that can exceed the rate of ork spore production. Just set up an autonomous robot factory that sucks warp energy in one end and spits endless swarms of uber robots out the other.
That would keep the galaxy stable, orks pushed back and potentially contained and allow other species to evolve and flourish. And of course allow the eldar time to ignore everyone else and get their freak on...
Orks is Orks is Orks. And if there’s a whopper of a fight in the offing, they’ll find their way to it.
Ullanor essentially shattered the Orks as a galactic scale threat, for a time.
Had things gone differently, it’s quite possible The Imperium would’ve had the resources and time to basically run suppression against any other Orky forces before they could become a major issue.
And it does make sense that the pre-Fall Eldar were doing just that. Keeping their numbers down to a manageable level, never really letting the Boyz achieve the critical mass required for a proper Waaaagh! to gather steam.
But going back to the Krork? I’m still not satisfied Krork and Ork are one and the same. Related? Sure, I can buy that. But in the same way as Homo Sapien Sapien and Australopithecus are related, but entirely separate species.
Now that could just be evolution having its way, or it could be the result of someone, even the Krork themselves, giving it a helping hand which went a bit wrong.
Gork and Mork could also have had a hand in things in the Warp.
We know that the 4 Major Chaos Gods basically don't want any faction to win so that they sustain themselves on a never ending bounty of emotional energy and souls. Perhaps Gork and Mork did the same way back then - weakening elements of the Krork to create the Orks. It might even have been some kind of twisting element that made them more receptive to sending energies to Gork and Mork in the Warp.
Basically Orks never actually conquering everything is perfect for Chaos Gods. It creates that never-ending stream of power for them.
While I see the appeal of a War in Heaven game, I'd want to go the other way, Unification Wars!
Keeping in mind that Earth is literally the only planet any of us give a darn about, I'd commission a Unification Wars skirmish game.
One faction would be Thunder Warriors of course, brutal and savage Legions. Then others... based on national cliches and Warhammer fluff. So gas-masked cowboys on cyber horses from the 'Merican Wastes, jumping and leaping kung-fu warrior monks from Jong-Kuo, diesel punk tanks rolling out of Aleman, you get the idea.
Let's fight over the scraps of our once great homeworld! Mud covered men in mud colored uniforms fighting in the mud!
You know, I had another idea. If I was in charge of GW/40k for a day. I'd make people scan in good copies of every edition of white dwarf, and then sell collection PDF's of all the old issues. LIke "White dwarf 1992" "White dwarf 1993", etc. They could be like $5 each for the whole year of old white dwarfs. Probably take it all the way from the start of WD up to maybe... 2 years? Or do they sell pdfs of the new ones now? If they do sell PDFs now then I would do this old scan/sell thing up to the modern era.
I have decided: if i were in charge of GW for a day, Id cut a licensing deal for Denis Villeneuves Dune universe and release a game built on the MESBG engine.
I’d introduce a full werewolf faction for AOS. Why they’ve not done this yet I have no idea. There are some designs that are reminiscent of werewolves of course (Vargsykr etc) but no genuine Big Bads…
chaos0xomega wrote: I have decided: if i were in charge of GW for a day, Id cut a licensing deal for Denis Villeneuves Dune universe and release a game built on the MESBG engine.
I'd add alternating activations to the game to make the core gameplay more interesting and less "fething around on my phone for 20+minutes while my opponent does their thing"
VladimirHerzog wrote: I'd add alternating activations to the game to make the core gameplay more interesting and less "fething around on my phone for 20+minutes while my opponent does their thing"
I like the BattleTech everyone shoots at once thing.
VladimirHerzog wrote: I'd add alternating activations to the game to make the core gameplay more interesting and less "fething around on my phone for 20+minutes while my opponent does their thing"
Not gonna lie, the point where my opponent pulls out a phone during my turn is about where I pack up and go find an opponent who's actually interested in the game.
If you're not interested in social interaction while playing, at the very least watching what your opponent is doing so that you keep up with what's going on and don't need prompting when it's time to take a save or a LD test is just common courtesy.
VladimirHerzog wrote: I'd add alternating activations to the game to make the core gameplay more interesting and less "fething around on my phone for 20+minutes while my opponent does their thing"
Not gonna lie, the point where my opponent pulls out a phone during my turn is about where I pack up and go find an opponent who's actually interested in the game.
If you're not interested in social interaction while playing, at the very least watching what your opponent is doing so that you keep up with what's going on and don't need prompting when it's time to take a save or a LD test is just common courtesy.
See this?
THIS.
Also, if you’re gonna go alternating activation? Go the Epic route, and have me define, via “secret” orders what my forces can and can’t do. Because anyone can set a trap, but the true skill is in spotting and avoiding the trap, before you’ve even set it. And secret order assignation gets you really good at that.
Certainly better than the “oh hey wow, I didn’t think of that, but if I react *right now* I should be good, because that’s what makes a good tactical game, right. Right?”
VladimirHerzog wrote: I'd add alternating activations to the game to make the core gameplay more interesting and less "fething around on my phone for 20+minutes while my opponent does their thing"
Not gonna lie, the point where my opponent pulls out a phone during my turn is about where I pack up and go find an opponent who's actually interested in the game.
If you're not interested in social interaction while playing, at the very least watching what your opponent is doing so that you keep up with what's going on and don't need prompting when it's time to take a save or a LD test is just common courtesy.
I'm sorry but when a game is structured in a way that basically forces solitaire play, its boring. I much prefer the games with AA where we both are actively participating in the game. This kind of gameplay doenst even HAVE downtimes where picking up your phone is possible...
And AA games go much faster than IGOUGO, so playing a game doesnt take up half your day either, leaving more room to chill with the gang before/after the game
. Instead of taking the time and effort have the Astartes Geneseed insinuate itself into a X chromosome, it merely attaches itself to the much shorter Y chromosome. From there, it generates the changes to the body that turns a male into an Astartes. 
plastic Thunderbolt/Lightning/Avenger kit (I believe it can be done, look at the fantastic Dakkajet kit!).
