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So it's not so much mini news, but it is gaming news.  WotC announced that a new edition of Dungeons and Dragons is being released in May-

www.wizards.com/default.asp

I don't know what I think about it yet.  The current rules are pretty solid.  Hell, 3.5 was pretty unnecessary.  But we'll see.

It seems to be heading down a computer game/streamlined route.
But since it's just a storytelling tool anyway I don't think system matters. It's the setting material that's important in an RPG.

 

There are numerous balancing issues that need to be reworked. Clerics are just way too powerful in the game as is. Fighters become useless, and have very few options. Run up, swing, swing, oh look a critical. Wizards have few spells and get little play early on, then zap zap zap everything gets fried.

What I'm hoping is they do not go to the awful Star Wars Saga rules.

I'm glad I don't suckle at Wizards of the Cost's fetid teat anymore. My bank account thanks me.

My D&D group may not even move to 4th. If we do, I've at least got a few months to sell my books off on ebay.

Shmucks.

I see no big reason to change.
Clerics are silly, as are a lot of other things, but it's really easy to modify them to make them a bit less mental. Take away heavy armour proficiency for example, and clerics are a lot less scary.
Still, I'll be interested in what they bring out with the new edition.
I'm not loyal to any one game system though, I could easily bugger off to Traveller or In Nomine.

Mmmm, lots of cheap 3rd edition books on ebay...

I'm always interested in what WotC does.

I thought 3rd Ed was one of the most impressive improvements to a gaming system I've ever seen.

I'm not sure I get what they're doing with 4th. Trying to have some online aids to speed up gaming mechanics?

I'll have to see it in action. I tend to think that as far as core mechanics go, there's really nothing to improve with d20. It's as much as you need to do everything with nothing extra. It's great. It's all content on top of that.

I've heard that races are going to play a bigger part in the game, with racial bonuses as you advance, not just as you generate your character.

I got this email from my friend in the industry. I hope it is the same on the wotc website. Also, yes there using the new star wars sage rules, Which is a good thing.

Wizards of the Coast is announcing at GenCon today that it will release the 4th Edition of its category-leading Dungeons and Dragon roleplaying game in 2008, the first full new edition in eight years.  The three core books will be released next summer on a monthly schedule:  Player's Handbook in May, Monster Manual in June, and Dungeon Master's Guide in July.  Pricing and page counts of the new products will be consistent with current packaging.  Graphics have been updated, art will be used on the covers, and interior design has been opened up to make the books less intimidating to new players. 

Lead-in products, Wizards Presents:  Classes and Races and Wizards Presents:  Worlds and Monsters, will be released in December.  An April release, Keep of the Shadowfell, will include a set of quickstart rules for 4E. 

 

While there are changes in play (such as incorporating "epic-level play," with 30 levels instead of 20), they are described as "evolutionary" rather than "revolutionary."  Other changes include new power sources, changes in resource management, and new encounter design, and more clearly defined monster roles.  Changes will speed play, make the game easier to learn, and make DM-ing easier.  Concepts for 4th Edition gameplay were tested in the new Star Wars RPG, and the Book of 9 Swords. 

 

What the company does describe as revolutionary is the method of product delivery, which will incorporate online play for the first time. WotC is incorporating online components into the game through a new Website, DnDInsider.com.  Each paper product will include codes to unlock digital versions on the site for a "nominal" activation fee.   Players will also be able to use DnDInsider tools and access regular new content similar to the material that was previously released in Dragon and Dungeon magazines (see "Interview with Liz Schuh" for a monthly fee (as yet undetermined) greater than the old subscription price, but less than a MMORPG subscription.  Magazine-style content will be added to the site three times a week and compiled into digital "issues" monthly. 

Gameplay features on the Web will include a digital D&D game table, and voice chat and text messaging, to allow online players to communicate with each other.  The online play is designed to "supplement, not replace" meatspace play. 

 

The Open Gaming License will continue as it has in the past, allowing the use of the rules in other publishers' games.

 

Work on the new edition began in 2005, with the major work all accomplished in the last year. 

 

D&D products released between now and the launch of 4th Edition will fall into three groups.  Edition-proof products (which are mostly story) will not include mechanics that are edition-specific.  Some products will be "enhanced" to 4th Edition mechanics after release through DnDInsider, and a couple of series will end as 3.5 products. 

 

The setting for the core books are campaign neutral.  Forgotten Realms will be the first campaign setting to be updated (in August 2008).  Other campaign settings will be updated at a rate of one per year.   

 

Marketing support will initially focus on migrating the existing player base, and then move to an acquisition strategy to re-activate lapsed players and acquire new ones. Midnight launch parties will be used to kick off sales of the first new release in May. 

Posted By Da Boss on 08/19/2007 5:20 PM
It seems to be heading down a computer game/streamlined route.
But since it's just a storytelling tool anyway I don't think system matters. It's the setting material that's important in an RPG.

I couldnt agree more.

Thats why 2nd edition is the best.

It has the most (read: the best array of material) for the system.

Darksun, Planescape, etc, the list goes on.

When you consider the old favorite of the Greyhawk setting, there is no substitute for 2nd edition source material.

Risen from the ashes, Menzoberranzan...they just dont make setting ina box like that anymore.

Now its all opensourced stuff that pollutes the market. Diversity is good, but too much can make a person (or game) drown.

4th edition is completly uneccessary.

I was pessimistic about the whole affair until I read the bit on classes, and the implication that stats such as Constition might affect your ability to weild heavy weapons like hammers which take a lot of endurance. Adding more personality to weapons sounds exciting. They've got me listening, at least.

I don't think it works that way.

I agree with you, the Greyhawk stuff was great.  From the Ashes was one of my favorite source books of all time. But the thing is, it's source. It doesn't REALLY matter what edition you're using.

At the time, I had great fun with 2nd Ed. no question. That was the heydey of my DnD playing, actually. But the rules got in the way alot, they were clumsy, arcane, and inflexible, at least as compared to 3e.

So, as far as fun, as far as sourcebooks that really hit home for you, maybe 2nd ed was a better time. I'd wager that had more to do with where you were at in your life, and less to do with the rules themselves. I think if we'd had 3rd edition rules back then, we'd have spent less time arguing, less time trying to figure out how to fudge rules for what we wanted to do, and more time actually playing.



Meh, I dunno. I don't think it pollutes the market. You buy it or you don't, it's not like it gets nearby books all laden with cancer causing chemicals or something.

An argument could be made that it's taking small independants and preventing them from coming up with something new and fresh, because it's easier and safer to piggyback off of the d20 License.

I think that's probably dead wrong, though, because it could also be said that d20 gives small guys the leg up to get purchases right away. I think that point hits home particularly strongly here at Dakka, because Privateer Press got its start doing d20 license stuff. The first product I ever saw of theirs, Monsternomicon is one of my favorites of all time. They started out with the Iron Kingdoms as a DnD world, and produced some really neat books for it. The miniatures stuff was almost an afterthought. If not for the d20 OGL, they might never have even started out.



I agree that there's no need for 4th Ed., but there are lots of reasons. The fact is, 3e has gone as far as it can go. It will always be out there for people to play if people are familliar and don't care to update. But WotC has a ton of production power, and they've turned out all the books possible. I mean, they were turning out 120 page hardcovers on how to run adventures in cold weather, another in hot weather, another in ankle deep water, another when the PCs haven't kept in touch with their mom as much as they should. It's not that 3e needed fixing (which I think 2e fully did), it's just that the community needs some new outlooks on things. Mix things up. Make race matter more. Make stats effect thigns differently. Shake things up and change how people think.

d20 made Iron Kingdoms possible and accessible, though there are possibly things
about it that limit the gameplay.

I don't really feel that a 4th ed is necessary, the game works if you limit the number of source books you pull from. Infact thats it current biggest downfall. Too much other information that just doesn't work with what was already published. I think of each new D&D addition as a push of the reset button. Fortunatly I don't feel the need as of right now to upgrade. I don't get to roll play nearly enough to justify the purchase.

Its a little bit like 40K in that respect.

Posted By Hellfury on 08/19/2007 8:57 PM
When you consider the old favorite of the Greyhawk setting, there is no substitute for 2nd edition source material.

  Yes there is: 1st edition source material. 

  I gotta tell you, streamlined game mechanics and improved layout sound very tasty to me.  I've been running my wife and two small kids on 3.0 for a year or so now, and the slightest delay in a GM ruling while I look something up can be well-nigh catastrophic!

Posted By Pariah Press on 08/19/2007 10:09 PM

Posted By Hellfury on 08/19/2007 8:57 PM
When you consider the old favorite of the Greyhawk setting, there is no substitute for 2nd edition source material.

  Yes there is: 1st edition source material. 

Not a chance. 2nd ed gave Greyhawk more than it ever previously saw, with the exception of Temple of Elemental Evil (hallowed be thy name).

Greyhwak: City of Splendors
Risen from the Ashes
Castle Xagyg
The scarlet brotherhood
The vecna serial
Iuz the Evil
Rod of seven parts.

1st ed was the base, 2nd ed extrapolated on and made it an intelligent, living, breathing beast.

I really dont care what rules or edition the game is in. Great rules are great, but this is roleplaying afterall, officiated by an arbiter who oversees everything that isnt you or your group.

The source material is key. Thats what needs to be made (more source material detailing settings) not another rule set.

Its not to say that the game couldnt be better (as Phryxis said, 2nd ed did need some help) but you can play rock paper scissors and make greyhawk work.

The dm just decides if a troll happens to cut off your roshambo hand while your about to win.... *evil laugh*

It doesnt take a great mind to make great rules. It takes a great mind to create an immersive setting. This is where the money should be invested, not rehashing rules.

Posted By Hellfury on 08/20/2007 12:10 AM
 Temple of Elemental Evil.

  That's all I need, my friend.  That's all I need.

Posted By Green Angel on 08/19/2007 5:26 PM

 

There are numerous balancing issues that need to be reworked. Clerics are just way too powerful in the game as is. Fighters become useless, and have very few options. Run up, swing, swing, oh look a critical. Wizards have few spells and get little play early on, then zap zap zap everything gets fried.

What I'm hoping is they do not go to the awful Star Wars Saga rules.

Gosh!  I remember that was the same with 1st edition AD&D (and "Expert" as well - remember that?) back when I was a mere stripling!  I lost touch with D&D & RPGs in general in the '90's and the whole d20 thing just passed me by.  I'm glad to see that I didn't miss much!

Posted By gpoint on 08/19/2007 8:09 PM

Each paper product will include codes to unlock digital versions on the site for a "nominal" activation fee.   Players will also be able to use DnDInsider tools and access regular new content similar to the material that was previously released in Dragon and Dungeon magazines (see "Interview with Liz Schuh" for a monthly fee (as yet undetermined) greater than the old subscription price, but less than a MMORPG subscription.

Anyone else bothered by this?

Posted By Green Angel on 08/19/2007 5:26 PM

 

There are numerous balancing issues that need to be reworked. Clerics are just way too powerful in the game as is. Fighters become useless, and have very few options. Run up, swing, swing, oh look a critical. Wizards have few spells and get little play early on, then zap zap zap everything gets fried.

I've never played 3rd edition but I played AD&D a lot, this seem to be how it's supposed to be, not a bug in the 3rd edition.

Criticals for Fighters eh? well they sound more interesting than they used to be. Does the Thief/Bard class still top out at around 9th level?

Posted By Master_Forcide on 08/20/2007 4:09 AM

Posted By gpoint on 08/19/2007 8:09 PM

Each paper product will include codes to unlock digital versions on the site for a "nominal" activation fee.   Players will also be able to use DnDInsider tools and access regular new content similar to the material that was previously released in Dragon and Dungeon magazines (see "Interview with Liz Schuh" for a monthly fee (as yet undetermined) greater than the old subscription price, but less than a MMORPG subscription.

Anyone else bothered by this?

Not in the slightest. It's not mandatory, it's a sexy extra option.

My every-other-Sunday group full of well-employed adults is drooling. We'll still continue meeting in meatspace, but we're planning to use laptops so we can still use the online tools. Think about having a map on which each player can actually only see what their character can see. In differing light conditions the humans and nonhumans actually see more or less of the map, and the DM doesn't have to say "everyone else close your eyes" while he shows the mage who case See Invisible where the bad guy is. And the scout who peeked around the corner down the hall is actually the only one who gets to see down there, as opposed to the DM just drawing it for everyone out in the open.

This is going to be sweet.

They're stripping out 3rd edition content now. They used to have art from all the 3rd ed books on line and now there's just 1 measly little book up.

Are there any plans to bring back Darksun? that was far and away my favorite setting.

I haven't heard of any, but the 3rd ed rules are easily robust enough (and psionics much better developed) to handle the campaign setting. The one thing the DM might need to do is create a prestige class for the Defiler to represent its faster caster progression.

I remember the old Darksun CRPG. That was fun.

i still love 2nd edition with those option books they made. and god did we hate darksun! a desert world with wooden weapons in abundance..?....where do all these trees come from?? ya know eventually all those 'dead trees' wouldve been used up...i think we tried playing it 3-4 times then gave up on it..and the books were hoorible! but anyway 2nd edition was soo cool and i remember late 90's there was a greyhawk resurgance, people looking for greyhawk stuff and finding them at crazy igor's, online and at I-CON. the slavers series was the best bunch of modules to play.

they had trees! just not a lot of them. The little crazy canibal halfling guys lived in a giant forest.

I can't believe i remember that.

But yeah, it was different, i liked it myself although i could see how some people wouldn't. Our group played alot of campaigns in that setting. It was always so cool when someone actually got a steel sword or weapon. Plus your character was so much more bad ass.

Different strokes I guess.

When we played Darksun most stuff was made out of rock and bone. Not so much wood. I loved that setting. There have been a few Dragon articles and things, but a new campaign setting book would be really cool even if they don't continue to support it with random supplements.

I like that they mentioned the Book of the Nine Swords as essentially playtesting a mechanic for 4th edition. It's my favorite supplement to 3.5, and it goes a long way to giving warriors as many options and abilities as spellcasters.

The subscription for online content just sounds like WotC is trying to get monthly subscription fees from people to try and get a piece of the MMORPG action. I don't know if I game consistently enough to make that worthwhile.

And what is meatspace? It sounds like either what you look for in the fridge when you get home from the grocery store or like an elemental plane of flesh or something. Slaanesh's personal part of the warp could be meatspace, or Nurgle's could be rottenmeatspace.

Meatspace is classic Cyberpunk jargon. Meat vs machine. Meatspace vs. cyberspace.