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I was on Stelek's blog the other day and someone posted a Vulkan list with 3 Vindi's and Stelek remarked that he didn't think they were the best bargain now due to the lack of AP1, the large amount of cover saves and that the Whirlwind was the better buy. Which are all good points.

As a player who has just come into possession of 3 Vindi's I wondered what others thought about their effectiveness in 4th Edition. Three S10 AP 2 pie plates always seem useful to me, especially with the large amount of MeQ armies that may be out there with the new codex.

As an aside, I respect Stelek's advice so, lets not make this thread about him, if we could.

thanks in advance

I had a 2000 pt Chaos list in which I spammed possessed vindicators. Yes, cover was a factor. No I was not sorry.

And remember, the only whirlwind that ignores cover only has S4 and AP 5. That works against some armies, but not all, and only when they're actually getting a cover save. And it's only even wounding on 3+ instead of 2+. I guess in 5th I'd think about mixing it up.

Rmeju

I do not have my books as I am at school , but I believe that Ordance template Cover saves are not taken from POV of the Vehicle, but from point of impact with Area Terrain allowed.

This may be just be for Ordance Barrage weapons, I will have to go home in check ; Basically you do not actually check for cover from the firing vehicle but instead from the model itself which would disallow cover saves from units and intervening terrain. Terrain the model was actually in such as a bunker would be applied.

It totally depends on what you expect to be playing and what the rest of your list is like. If you're playing Marines, would you rather have Whirlwinds or Vindicators? How about Orks?

I think it's a tactic, but I also think you shouldn't rely on them for all your anti-tank or anti-infantry ability. Vindicators are really there to deal with elite troops with good armor saves. They can be used to deal with vehicles, but I'd still include some meltas or lascannons in the list.

I'm not putting down the Whirlwind, I think it's great in the new codex. But it's now a lot harder to hide and has AV 11. There's a reason it's a lot cheaper than the vindicator.

Hollismason wrote:I do not have my books as I am at school , but I believe that Ordance template Cover saves are not taken from POV of the Vehicle, but from point of impact with Area Terrain allowed.

This may be just be for Ordance Barrage weapons, I will have to go home in check ; Basically you do not actually check for cover from the firing vehicle but instead from the model itself which would disallow cover saves from units and intervening terrain. Terrain the model was actually in such as a bunker would be applied.

That is only from Ordnance Barrage so the Vindicator unfortunately does not benefit.

I think you can run a 3 Vindicator list but you have to give your opponent more armored targets to worry about than the Vindicators or they are simply going to take all the anti-tank fire your opponent can bring to bear. The problem with Vindicators is that from the flank or in assault they are no more survivable than Rhinos.

I would have a few squads in Rhinos to rush with alongside the Vindicators so that the opponent has to make some choices.

I think a set up as the following in 2000 points would be pretty decent.

Khan on bike


Terms Assault terms w/ lightning Claws+ Redeemer , 465

Terms , Assault cannon 30+ Redeemer xtra armour495


Troops
5 Man Bike w/ Melta Guns 160

5 Man as above , 160

5 Man Tactical w/ Razorback
Heavy support
Vindicator 130
Vindicator 130
Vindicator 130

The vindicators can start in reserve. Everything else has outflank

Now that Land Raiders can be bought as a transport for Terminators.

I'm dreaming up a 3 vindicator 3 Land Raider list (thanks to some Inquisitor allies). Throw in some mystics on the two Inquistitors and you have a very effective anti drop/Deamon army.

Kymera wrote:
That is only from Ordnance Barrage so the Vindicator unfortunately does not benefit.

According to the summery page it is. YMMV on what gets ignored vs what doesn't.

I think I would play a 3 vindicator with Tigurius as he allows them to go in reserve and reroll. I dunno how you would work that into 2000 points though.


3 Vindicators and 3 ironclads drop poding would be pretty nifty.

Three Vindis with two LR Redeemers on the flanks are hard as hell to kill. If a squad wants to assault the tanks they will have to bunch up, which with the redeemers there is suicide. I think vindicators are a fantastic choice, they simply fill a different niche than the easily killed and marginally effective whirlwind, of which the anti cover shot is only really useful a third the time its used. Vindi's are all about killing MEQ's and other vehicles, as well as soaking fire and being terrifying. Whirlwinds are annoying and cheap.

Yeah the only problem I have with that is you set up only the vindicators on the board, I dunno if I would want to do that I would just leave them in reserve.


I don't know I think it is definitely viable fun army but I dont think it would win any tourneys. Just a fun army.


Here is a slightly altered list


Khan on bike 205

Terminator 5 man lightning claw ( Thunder Hammer Stormshield cant decide 200 ; Redeemer with MultiMelta Xtra Armor, 265

Terminator 5 Man with Assault Cannon 230 ; Redeemer as above 265

Leaving us with 795

Vindicator 115
Vindicator 115
Vindicator 115


Troops
5 Man Bike with 2 meltas 160 points
5 Man Bike with 2 Meltas 160 points
5 Man Bike with 2 Meltas 160 points


Gives you 1,980 points


So for firepower you have 6 Melta Guns, 2 Multi Meltas, 3 Assault Cannons, 3 Str 10 ordanance, 5 Tanks, Everything but the vindicators Out flanks

Kymera wrote:
That is only from Ordnance Barrage so the Vindicator unfortunately does not benefit.

The summary lists the demolisher as Ordnance 1, barrage.

My personal thoughts were running another Stelek inspired list of
Kantor with ass. cannon razor
3x Sternguard with various toys and ass. cannon razors
2x Tac squads in Rhinos
3x Vindi's

that's 9 armored vehicles with the ass cannon razors to protect flanks and generally harass.

Vindicators are great, if you don't have Demolishers.

I'm not a fan of fully spamming 3 of anything, but multple Vindis, heck even single vindis, are great!

The biggest argument I've been hearing against them is the constant wailing moan of "4+ cover saves everywhere!" like we just shouldn't bother. Well guess what dumb-ass, wounding on a 2+ and forcing your opponent onto a 4+ cover save is still better than letting them get a 3+ or 2+ armor save. I still have yet to see these horde armies getting 4+ cover saves all over the place or tables carpeted with terrain.

3 Vindis work well and not bad with any armored list.

Play an old fashioned rhino rush with 3 vindicators...

1st Turn full speed and pop your smoke. Let them target what they will... Rhinos or Vindicators. Just make sure there is equal or better poison in the rhinos. Two Landraiders are the best cover but even a rhino to the right and a rhino to the left makes that vindicator AV 13 and no shot on the vindicators flanks.

Blew up the vindicators? Fine here comes the sterngard out of the rhinos or the assault squad with 2 meltas or the tacticals. If you like
dreadnoughts... run them behind the vindicators... set them up with MM and heavy flamers or Assault Cannons and heavy flamers.
One turn of running and cover, and you should be able to deliver them into range to get the points back.

Vary it... move up 12", pop the smoke and drop a devastator out of the back of your rhino next door.... if he doesn't slaughter the rhino, the rhino moves out of the way and low and behold your 4 multi-meltas (or whatever) have the perfect shot at him.

My rule is 1 vehicle is a trick, 2 is a commitment, 3 is a force to be dealt with. So you paid 30 points more for that vindicator instead of a whirlwind, you got +2 AV where it counts and a better all-purpose pie plate.

DAaddict wrote:3 Vindis work well and not bad with any armored list.

Play an old fashioned rhino rush with 3 vindicators...

1st Turn full speed and pop your smoke. Let them target what they will... Rhinos or Vindicators. Just make sure there is equal or better poison in the rhinos. Two Landraiders are the best cover but even a rhino to the right and a rhino to the left makes that vindicator AV 13 and no shot on the vindicators flanks.

Blew up the vindicators? Fine here comes the sterngard out of the rhinos or the assault squad with 2 meltas or the tacticals. If you like
dreadnoughts... run them behind the vindicators... set them up with MM and heavy flamers or Assault Cannons and heavy flamers.
One turn of running and cover, and you should be able to deliver them into range to get the points back.

Vary it... move up 12", pop the smoke and drop a devastator out of the back of your rhino next door.... if he doesn't slaughter the rhino, the rhino moves out of the way and low and behold your 4 multi-meltas (or whatever) have the perfect shot at him.

My rule is 1 vehicle is a trick, 2 is a commitment, 3 is a force to be dealt with. So you paid 30 points more for that vindicator instead of a whirlwind, you got +2 AV where it counts and a better all-purpose pie plate.

Damn son, that is one convincing argument....well put

HQ Vulcan
Elite Dreadnought with MM & Hvy Flamer
Elite Dreadnought with MM & Hvy Flamer
Elite 10 Sternguard w Combi-Melta/Flamer in Rhino
Troop 10 Tacs w Flamer & MM in Rhino
Troop 10 Tacs w Flamer & MM in Rhino
Troop 10 Tacs w Flamer & MM in Rhino
Troop 10 Tacs w Flamer & MM in Rhino
Heavy Vindicator
Heavy Vindicator
Heavy Vindicator

1940

60 random points for buffing your sergeants... PWs for 4 of them?

Let em pick their poison... shoot the vindicators and the rhinos park and 5 TL MM pop out of the top. Charge em and take 3 pie plates and 4+ TL flamers. Hoards? Templates for everyone. Enemy over-anti armored his list? I think you have enough MM love to drop them. Plaguebearer demons? Hmm deepstriking within 24" I think you will like my template love.

Vindicators need to be deployed en masse to be of value themselves, unless you are defnding with lots of cover to hide behind.

The value of a single Vindicator is to pop smoke or use advancing cover while rushing forward, with everything else. Your opponent has litle choice but to fire at the Vindicator first letting your assault wave reach the enemy more or less intact.

Now your enemy could ignore the Vindicator, but they wont make that mistake more than once.

Vindicators (with upgrade) ignore difficult terrain ... tank charging 12" through a building and then firing off the cannon makes these guys a pain

Vindicators cannot move 12 and fire a gun, they can only move 6.

If you're taking vindis I'd take LRs for mobile cover

Tri: I think you mean ruins. A Vindicator would need to ram through a building, which would prevent it from firing. Fun though.

The only problem with taking LR as mobile cover is that you have to use of Elite slots for terminators which doesn't really fit the army.

2 Landraiders as dedicated transports are 450 minimum, so you have already used nearly 1000 points to get a shield for 3 Vehicles.


I think the best possible combination would be a Landraider and two Vindicators advancing.

1. If you focus fire on the Landraider then you are ignoring the Vindicators.

2. You focus on a vindicator then you are ignoring whatever is in the Landraider.

3. By placing two vindicators in a V pattern behind the landraid you can get good cover proper placement of this and theyll always have to shoot at the front armour.

4. The landraider is large enough that if you place two vindicators on the side of it and turn it you can effectively block off LOS to the vindicators.

5. This option would possibly only use 2 Heavy, 1 Elite Slot.

The summary lists the demolisher as Ordnance 1, barrage.

Then again the demolisher lacks the barrage tag in the Vindicator section of the codex. Considering that and the fact no other demolisher is barrage is a good indication it is a typo. I'd rule against barrage if I was a TO and I would err on the side of the less advantageous stat if I used a vindi. Each their own.

A cheesy way round having to purchase Terminator squads to unlock LR transports would be to go with Inquisitor allies. A cheap as chips Inquisitor with two Mystics (useful if your opponent tries to DS near the Vindicators) and a Hood works out as a 62 point premium over the Land Raider.

You could fit two such LR combos (although one would have to be the slightly more expensive Inquisitor Lord), three Vindicators, one basic Master of the Forge (chose him over a basic SM Captain as the Master of the Forge gets two PFs, twin linked plasma pistol, a flamer and can shoot two different weapons per turn for the same points) and Two ten man Tactical in Rhinos for 1500 points, cheesy but effective I think.

At 2000 points I'd add in plenty of Plasma for the Inquisitors, another Tactical squad or a Sternguard Squad.

I have but one problem with vindicators, if you get a weapon destroyed then there goes the whole tank

Three Vindies support each other, they block each others side armour value on the inside, which should be 13 anyway from the background the model and how they are used.

You would profit from a Land Raider on ther outside but a Razorback would also do.


However I still prefer a single Vindicator in amongst other vehicles, you can make it difficult to kill, and impossible to ignore.

Three vindicators are nasty! A bit too nasty, to my liking...

Swordbreaker wrote:I'm not a fan of fully spamming 3 of anything, but multple Vindis, heck even single vindis, are great!

The biggest argument I've been hearing against them is the constant wailing moan of "4+ cover saves everywhere!" like we just shouldn't bother. Well guess what dumb-ass, wounding on a 2+ and forcing your opponent onto a 4+ cover save is still better than letting them get a 3+ or 2+ armor save. I still have yet to see these horde armies getting 4+ cover saves all over the place or tables carpeted with terrain.

Indeed.

I think 1 isn't much of a threat.

2 is.

However unless they are actually IN cover, you can deny cover saves pretty easily by firing them while stationary.

Friend of mine runs dual LR and dual vindis, plus 3 tacticals in rhinos.

It's beatable, but it's a serious pain in the ass.

Someday he'll even play me with it.

Shiny new army + me = no way, it seems.