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So has anyone else downloaded the demo for halo wars off the 360 and been disappointed? This game is so lame it's such an obvious attempt to cash in on the franchise it offends me.

It reminds me of warcraft orcs against humans.

Daggermaw wrote:So has anyone else downloaded the demo for halo wars off the 360 and been disappointed? This game is so lame it's such an obvious attempt to cash in on the franchise it offends me.

It reminds me of warcraft orcs against humans.

Umm... you do know that this is just what the original Halo was supposed to be, right? Also, they've been saying since before Halo 2 that they still wanted to do Halo as an RTS to return it to its roots. So not really an "obvious attempt to cash in on the franchise", just a very positive reinforcement for the change into a FPS for Halo.

Umm... you do know that this is just what the original Halo was supposed to be, right? Also, they've been saying since before Halo 2 that they still wanted to do Halo as an RTS to return it to its roots. So not really an "obvious attempt to cash in on the franchise", just a very positive reinforcement for the change into a FPS for Halo.

Yeah that's great, but so what. I've wanted to make a 1964 triumph bonnewille chopper for years but i made a 2002 honda shadow bobber instead. They might have wanted to make an RTS the whole time, but this game is crap. If it wasn't an obvious attempt at cashing in on the franchise it might be a game worth playing. As it is it's a game you can tell it has little input from Bungie and I find it kind of telling that it's ensemble studios last game.

yeah soon as I heard they were trying to do an RTS on a console I said, "well thats the end of that company." Halo's roots are actually from a game called Marathon, MS mad them turnit all cartoony to fit a teen market once they bought out bungie. They did want to make an RTS version of Marathon since they had previously wrtten an RTS engine which they used for Myth and it sold relitively well at the time, but MS got to them first and needed a good shooter so a cartoony remake of Marathon was the call.

I suspect Bungie lost interest in FPS games years ago and only kept going because MS wanted to squeeze another one out of them.

It's a hell of a job to keep remaking the same game again and again for over 10 years with changes and improvements each sequel.

Remembera that Ensemble and MS, NOT Bungie, are developing Halo Wars. Bungie weren't let in on the deal so they started work on Halo 3: ODST, which *is* an FPS, albiet a stealthy one.

Cheese Elemental wrote:Remembera that Ensemble and MS, NOT Bungie, are developing Halo Wars. Bungie weren't let in on the deal so they started work on Halo 3: ODST, which *is* an FPS, albiet a stealthy one.

I know, it's amazing how many people just hear Halo, and assume Bungie. I was never expecting much from Halo Wars, but apparently it's been met with pretty good reception from all the people that have never played a PC RTS. I was stunned by how many people on the Bungie forum are like 'OMG, the cutscenes look so much better than Halo 3's!!11!1!one!'. I'd rather have the mythic pack that comes with it.

Anyone who had played a proper pc strategy will realise how bad halo wars is. the only people who are going to buy it are halo fan boys just becasue it is an other halo game. as a reault, any one who can play a strategy game who buys halo wars and plays it online, will find them selves up against a bunch of idioctic 8 year old kids who think they are playing an other mindless fps.

Halo=Yawn

I sense a lot of negativity here.

Admittedly, I am a fan of Halo. I am also not massively experienced with the RTS genre.
I downloaded the demo, and decided it was good enough that I would buy it.

I have also yet to see anyone here give a proper argument as to why it's bad. All I hear is "omg this sucks", "not on a pc", etc.

Obviously this game is not going to swing many hardcore PC RTSers around. After all, mouse+keyboard > all, amirite lololol?

As for the "cashing in on a franchise" argument - what else could it be doing? Halo is now a franchise. This is not under any doubt. And a company with a franchise will seek to make money from that franchise - this is what companies do. I seriously doubt that if Halo Wars had been released before the FPS's - ie, if it was not part of a franchise - it would get any less ire than it currently is.

Hughpower - that's a pretty weak argument. For one, you suggest that all fans of the Halo series are 8 year olds - this is obviously untrue. Halo wars is rated 16+ anyway (not that this ever stopped anyone, I know, but the point still stands). The RTS genre is not (in my albeit limited estimation) one that lends itself very well to your average underage noob halo player - strategy, thinking, being the key. You're quite likely to be playing against someone who knows what they're doing.

Though of couse if the game did become accessible to morons very quickly, I suspect that might be a winning result for the control scheme (which I found worked well - the only option I was left wanting for was an "add to selection" button).

For me personally, the game appears to fit my criteria for a game I want to buy. It has an intriguing story (halo universe, don't buy it if you don't like it, natch) and gameplay that's accessible and enjoyable. It looks nice. And as a bonus it's got the mythic map pack about 5-8 weeks early.

I'd be interested to hear specific reasons why this game, in your opinions, is so bad - and no, "it's not on a PC" or "it's Halo" don't count. Be more specific.

I would say, I'm pretty much an eternal fan of Halo, for all of its shortcomings. I played Halo CE for an age and a half, it was my first ever real video game. Honestly, this is a pretty bad show. It's like an RTS kindergarten educational game for the Xbox 360 "HOORAH ALEINSLOL" demographic.

I'm a fan of simplicity, but after living off Company of Heroes and Supreme Commander, this seems paper thin. Two buttons to control a Unit? Two? Wow. And the huge gaping lack of a cover system really threw it off for me: it seems like an obvious staple for any self respecting RTS to have some vestige of realism thesedays.

Maybe I am looking down from the high benchmark of CoH whereby you have squads of men who will cover each other, seek cover intelligently, whereby cover means life or death. But whatever, this is where the games industry, and specifically the RTS genre has come over the past few years. If Microsoft don't want to live up to it, fine. Just expect a few less fans to what is now wholly becoming overplayed, overburnt franchise.

$.02

~sA

There's cover in the sense that there are structures like sniper towers and sandbags that you can garrison units inside.

I played the demo yesterday.

I am a Halo fan, I must say - although will readily admit that, though the original Halo rocked my socks off, H2 was a disappointment and H3 is somewhere 'twixt the two. I like the visuals, the story will probably be of interest and some of the new units are funky.

When it comes down to it, I will probably buy it because I have a craving for a good RTS: However, my laptop is held together with duct tape and hope, so I just don't have the option right now of getting hold of a PC FPS.

I enjoyed the demo. It may be a little simple for a lot of you guys, but it was fun for me. And isn't that the point? Fun?

I enjoyed the demo for the continuation of the Halo universe.

That said I was pretty unimpressed with the overall game. The controls were clunky in places, the units poorly balanced, and the general game play left me feeling like there was a lot to be desired. The player controlled camera was a joke! It barely scrolls out at all (anyone who is familiar with SupCom will abhor this!) and the only other option is to rotate it in circles, the designers could have completely removed that feature and used that stick for a useful function, like picking specific special powers out of a mixed group of units. I can't tell you the # of times my scorpion tanks used anti-personnel rounds against a building because I had commanded my infantry to use their grenades or rockets! Then, next thing I know all my Warthogs are clustered around the building ramming it like cripple during the running of the bulls!

Also, why is there no option to select just a single unit type? Or only units on the screen? Holding A only extends the selection bubble so far and the select all button selects EVERYTHING YOU HAVE EVERYWHERE!!

I also had some issues with the visuals. The cut scenes were gorgeous! But the game looked really bad on my tv. I have a 10yr old television and with the lower resolution most of the units were just little blobs, not to mention the powers symbols and fluff writing were hard to read. Hooked up to a 1080i TV or my computer monitor it looked just fine, but the lack of readability on a lower res screen was frustrating since most games can make themselves at least passable on older televisions. It felt like I was trying to play Dead Rising all over again!

Ok deadnote, you win. i was just complaining about the people who played it in my earlier post, and i cant really think of any proper reasons why i didnt enjoy it. i just didnt. I will admit though, for a consle rts , the controles were pretty good, and i found it easier to play than comnand and conqer 3.

Kroeger wrote:I enjoyed the demo for the continuation of the Halo universe.

That said I was pretty unimpressed with the overall game. The controls were clunky in places, the units poorly balanced, and the general game play left me feeling like there was a lot to be desired. The player controlled camera was a joke! It barely scrolls out at all (anyone who is familiar with SupCom will abhor this!) and the only other option is to rotate it in circles, the designers could have completely removed that feature and used that stick for a useful function, like picking specific special powers out of a mixed group of units. I can't tell you the # of times my scorpion tanks used anti-personnel rounds against a building because I had commanded my infantry to use their grenades or rockets! Then, next thing I know all my Warthogs are clustered around the building ramming it like cripple during the running of the bulls!

Also, why is there no option to select just a single unit type? Or only units on the screen? Holding A only extends the selection bubble so far and the select all button selects EVERYTHING YOU HAVE EVERYWHERE!!

I also had some issues with the visuals. The cut scenes were gorgeous! But the game looked really bad on my tv. I have a 10yr old television and with the lower resolution most of the units were just little blobs, not to mention the powers symbols and fluff writing were hard to read. Hooked up to a 1080i TV or my computer monitor it looked just fine, but the lack of readability on a lower res screen was frustrating since most games can make themselves at least passable on older televisions. It felt like I was trying to play Dead Rising all over again!

You can select just a single unit type, by double pressing A fast.
And yeah, having your ODSTs open up with rockets on buildings, and then realizing your Scorpions in the unit area just opened up with their Canister Rounds was...well, silly.

But then I started realizing that you could cycle specific unit types and that Scorpions weren't nearly as fun as Cobras with Spartans driving them set as a defensive line with Hornet spotters, and no infantry just waiting for the Covenant to charge so I could drop a ton of ODSTs right on top of them.

Graphics kinda blow, I have problems with rts's that aren't on a computer, but pretty nice game play I will admit.

I'd consider myself a Halo fan, so I was probably going to get this game if it was half-way decent, which the demo does seem to suggest to me.

The problems I have with it are the problems I have with RTS in general and why I don't tend to play them (besides the fact that I own a mac). It just seems to me that the majority of the 'strategy' in the game is how you build your bases and units and not so much you actually employ the units you make. I mean, obviously if you manage your units well together you will have an advantage, but it seems like the 'meat' of most RTS games is really how you choose to build your units and bases, which doesn't particularly interest me.

Beyond that, I've never liked the frantic nature of RTS games. Trying to manage what you're producing at the same time you try to command your forces just always frustrated rather than compelled me. While I'm sure generals to tend to worry about supply lines and reinforcement orders, I sure hope they don't have to do it while they're commanding a battle! If these games were about giving your units specific orders that they then carried out to completion, I probably wouldn't mind having to worry about managing units and bases at the same time, but the idea that I have to micro-manage a battle in order to maximize my troop's abilities, while at the same time I have to make sure I keep producing more units and researching other tech. . .that just seems like a chore to me. I want to focus on the strategies involved in battle.

From what I've heard about Company of Heroes, it sounds more of what I would like in a RTS. I haven't gotten to play it because I don't have a PC but it sounds awesome that DOW II has also gone down this path and supposedly focuses on battle strategy rather than base and tech building.

So what I'm trying to say is that while Halo Wars seems to be a very good console port of a traditional RTS game, especially since it is a universe I love, I really was hoping for a more innovative take on the genre, and this game is not that.


But I have enjoyed the demo enough to see what the game is like in full.

I have downloaded it, but haven't played it yet. The controls should be better than most RTS ported to the console because it is made for the 360.

As for gameplay, you can only get so much from a demo. If the demo is half enjoyable I might pick it up, because running around as a group of cloaked Elites with Energy Swords would just be FUN.

Yak: You're looking for RTT games, not RTS. I too dislike RTS games for the same reasons. You've played COH, but I'd suggest playing the Total War series, Nexus: The Jupiter Incident, and World in Conflict. WIC is pretty much COH set in the '90s had the USSR not collapsed and doesn't feature the crappy base-building economy stuff that RTSs have.

As for the demo, it's OK. I was hoping it was much more like an RTT myself cuz that's Halo never had bases or anything stupid like that. As it is though, it does feel like your guys are all individual FPS maggots playing with each other so it's cool. I'm looking for the DLC that allows them to hurl slurs at each other for the full experience.

stonefox wrote:Yak: You're looking for RTT games, not RTS. I too dislike RTS games for the same reasons. You've played COH, but I'd suggest playing the Total War series, Nexus: The Jupiter Incident, and World in Conflict. WIC is pretty much COH set in the '90s had the USSR not collapsed and doesn't feature the crappy base-building economy stuff that RTSs have.

As for the demo, it's OK. I was hoping it was much more like an RTT myself cuz that's Halo never had bases or anything stupid like that. As it is though, it does feel like your guys are all individual FPS maggots playing with each other so it's cool. I'm looking for the DLC that allows them to hurl slurs at each other for the full experience.

It's funny you mention RTT, as Bungie was the producer of arguably the best RTT ever, Myth. I was hoping they'd make Halo Wars more like Myth, but apparently not.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is the definition of 'RTT'?

Real-Time Tactical?

Real Time Tactics. Instead of just having to worry about the fights and your supplies at the same time, you're taken to just a battle and you mostly command the troops in hopefully realistic tactical situations. Things like your towns and supplies take place out of the battle so you can have a bit more control as a commander. It emphasizes using the terrain and troop formations to get the greatest advantage as well.

To add to Stonefox's point on the Total War series being completely awesome if you're looking for RTT, preorder the new Empire: Total War and get Rome Gold for free.

To me personally Halo Wars came off as having minor flaws in the controls from time to time that seemed to prevent it from flowing very smoothly. I'm not entirely sold on trying to finagle the 360 controller for an RTS, might miss the mouse and keyboard too much. At times it seemed somewhat poorly paced. That could have been just how I was playing at the time though. Seems to be worth at least a rental so far.

Kanluwen wrote:

You can select just a single unit type, by double pressing A fast.
And yeah, having your ODSTs open up with rockets on buildings, and then realizing your Scorpions in the unit area just opened up with their Canister Rounds was...well, silly.

But then I started realizing that you could cycle specific unit types and that Scorpions weren't nearly as fun as Cobras with Spartans driving them set as a defensive line with Hornet spotters, and no infantry just waiting for the Covenant to charge so I could drop a ton of ODSTs right on top of them.

I know about double clicking units, the problem is you then lose the selection of all your other units. There is no way to tell parts of your army to go places without painstakingly selecting the different units and sending each group to their objective. I wish there was a way to make forces you could hot key. That would go a long way towards soothing my irritation. it would also to have a menu of all the special powers your selected units have. That way instead of the crappy camera controls you could access specific unit powers without losing control of the majority of your troops.

I really liked the method DoW had, you see all your forces icons in the box in the center of the taskbar, you can highlight units and activate their special abilities while still maintaining control over your whole army.

I've never played an RTS on a console... wait, no, I played Warcraft II on PS1. Regardless, the thought of console players stuck without hotkeys fills me with mirth.

The first time I played an RTS was on playstation: Command & Conquer. My bros and I loved that game even without all the pleasantries of keyboard+mouse play.

I just love all the PC game purists who detest RTSs/RTTs when they use controllers. I guess it'll take time, just like FPS games.

I'm not saying it's like taking a sledgehammer to a nail... or perhaps I am. The 'precision' argument. I don't have a problem with FPS on consoles - I can do it, but I don't see the point when it comes to RTS/RTT.

Warcraft II and C&C are relatively simple games, and I'm not bagging them on that point, I'm just saying... complex micro-sim is just a different nail altogether. One might compare it to hammering a screw - it works, sort of, but it's just not the same. Use the right bloody tool for the job.

Has anyone here played Supreme Commander on 360? I'm interested in hearing how THAT one works out.

So far Halo Wars sounds a bit more RTT, but I haven't played or seen it yet.

The FPS genre was getting stale

GearBoxClock wrote:The FPS genre was getting stale

Bioshock, CoD 4, and Fallout 3 would like to have a word with you...

GearBoxClock wrote:The FPS genre was getting stale

What...? The FPS genre is thriving right now. It's the core of XBL.