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After getting my ass handed to me in sling yet again,
I have decided to officially retire my Eldar army.
From numerous disasters with them,I think they are
too 'specialist' an army to be effective in the 40k
universe.Guardians are hamstrung from poor shooting
range.Why so high armour saves?They are supposed to
be agile,so why the hell are they so easy to kill?
They should be really difficult to hit!The Eldar weapons
are supposed to be really advanced,but on the battlefield,
This is not reflected.In world war 2 Sherman tanks were
nicknamed Ronsons,because one strike and they went up in
flames!The Eldar are just like this!Too much fluff and
no punch.No wonder they are on the edge of extinction,
They are crap!

I

I can't help but feel that you just don't have a handle on playing Eldar. I know, at least in 40K4, that Mechanized Eldar were an extremely tough army to beat, and I don't think 5th has done much to harm that other than the Vehicle Squadron rules.

So what do you run & how do you run it?

(Might also be better off posting this in the 40K Tactics forum.

Use Tactics.

Seriously, Eldar aren't the powerhouse they were in 4th edition, but unless you play nothing but POD lists or Nob bikers you should be able to hang tough.

I think we'd be able to help you more if you posted a list. I mean, just from what you've described, you seem to think that guardians should ever be shooting with their shuricats, which almost never happens. They shoot with their weapons platform from cover. Eldar tanks are also generally fairly durable, especially when fully loaded with spirit stones, holo fields, and vectored engines.

You can't expect any of your units to win a battle of attrition, but you should have the speed and maneuverability to set up mulit-charges, or bring down one part of the enemy through shooting at a time.

Slipstream wrote:Whiny whiningness

Learn 2 play.

I don't think the Eldar are anywhere near to being hopeless, yet. But the day is rapidly approaching to where they will be in desperate need of an update.

In truth 5th ed really nerfed the Eldar more than most people realize simply because they were that overpowered for the most of 4th and even after getting a codex that softened them somewhat they were really good.

5th ed hurt the Eldar with:

First) Coversaves cut the effectiveness of the much depended upon heavy support in half.

Second) The run rule made the very fast Eldar not so fast any more.

Third)Their tanks lost a lot of mobile firepower survivability. In the 4th ed they moved 12" got to shoot and all shots against them were glancing. Now if they want protection they can't shoot.

Fourth)Each new Codex seems to be an uberdex that are hammering nails into the Eldar coffin.

Fifth) The back to back nerfings of first their last codex and now 5th edition has taken a toll that we are just beginning to see. It was like only 2-2&1/2 years ago the we were dealing with the Crystal Targeting matrix and Craftworld uberbuilds. So in our minds the Eldar are still super strong because of what we remember due to that we haven't played them as much under the new 5thed.

I have a thread called, "How would you change the eldar for 5th ed?" where we are discussing this. The eldar are still good but becoming very limited in builds.

@OP, Let us know if you want to get rid of the army, though.

eldar are cool though cause they got the blue lasers that go pew pew...

.Guardians are hamstrung from poor shooting
range.Why so high armour saves?They are supposed to
be agile,so why the hell are they so easy to kill?

Guardians are Poets and Philosophers.
They are not meant to go to battle.

It was 1000pts against IG
1)Avatar
2)2 11 man guardian squads,bright lance and starcannon
warlock each
3)6 Dire avengers
4)10 harlequins
5)Fire prism
6)support battery vibro cannons (2)
Started well Prism took out Leman russ,but guard turn
cuased havoc.Mortar platoon took out nearly all Harlequins
in cover Prism tank destroyed en route to attack in cover
mortars.Bad dice rolls made Avatar useless.
Ig tanks decimated rest of forces (chimeras with multilaser
and flamers)
The point i was trying to make about guardians was that
they have guns so they should be able to shoot at distance!
Otherwise they are just close combat troops with the wrong
weapons.If they are just there to support the weapons platform
that makes them useless!How can they protect if they are being easily
picked off at distance?

Well you're playing a list which really isn't going to do well against guard. Where are multiple bladestprming avengers of just outflanking war walkers with scatter lasers?

yes, eldar are a specialist army, thats what makes them so strong, they are nowhere near weak when used well by someone who knows the field and what each unit can do in any situation.
they have serious anti-tank and infantry firepower, amazing mobility, a giant bloody molten beast, and some of the best psykers in 40k.
not to mention the amount of use that can be made from council / jetbike combo's.
you have some great CC troop choices (scorps, bans, harlies)
amazing shooting units (spys, reaps, drags)

and who doesent like mass skimmers with great firepower?

if used right eldar are tough to say the least, i rather play an ok ork player than a good eldar player.

my fav cobbler is cherry! I love pie!

robertsjf wrote:my fav cobbler is cherry! I love pie!

My favorite Cobbler is the guy who works in the orthotics shop in Ochsner next to my father's podiatry department.

Mostly because they let me use their vacuum press when I'm making armor...

I'll give you $20 bucks for them.

mattyboy22 wrote:I'll give you $20 bucks for them.

$40 here!

You've said it yourself: you're relying on guardians, and the fact that they have 12" guns really hampers them. When even Orks can outshoot your guardians because of both more effective shooting (point for point) at longer range, you're using a very very suboptimal unit. I've been having a lot of fun with my new Eldar army, and I even use a squad of Storm Guardians, which a lot of people think are even less optimal than regular guardians.

But, I also don't think that the rumored guardsman being 1/2 the cost of a Guardian helps to make them even more obsolete.

Try using a Farseer. I find that the powers Doom and Fortune are especially important for tying an Eldar army together.

Huh? How are you using Eldar and not wiping the walls with the enemy? I've experienced some of my most humiliating losses against them. Tip #1, stop using Guardians. #2, use more Dire Avengers. Bladestorm is your friend. I hate Eldar so much...

I lost with Orks yesterday. They must be crap.

lord_blackfang wrote:I lost with Orks yesterday. They must be crap.

With Orks, it's more random because of the massive number of dice you have to roll, especially against space marines, since they don't get an armor save against bolters. Unless you play the dreaded Nob bikers. I don't have that kind of money so I'm doomed I guess.

You should have been around for the eldar nerf goin from 2nd ed. to 3rd...

well...they really needed it then.

The rules change and the eldar are one of the if not the most adaptable army to the battlefield. Adapt and overcome my friend.

warpcrafter wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:I lost with Orks yesterday. They must be crap.

With Orks, it's more random because of the massive number of dice you have to roll, especially against space marines, since they don't get an armor save against bolters. Unless you play the dreaded Nob bikers. I don't have that kind of money so I'm doomed I guess.

Somebody didn't get the sarcasm... Anyways "massive number of dice" means you're going to be rolling closer to the statistical mean, so that's actually in their favor.

willydstyle wrote:

warpcrafter wrote:

lord_blackfang wrote:I lost with Orks yesterday. They must be crap.

With Orks, it's more random because of the massive number of dice you have to roll, especially against space marines, since they don't get an armor save against bolters. Unless you play the dreaded Nob bikers. I don't have that kind of money so I'm doomed I guess.

Somebody didn't get the sarcasm... Anyways "massive number of dice" means you're going to be rolling closer to the statistical mean, so that's actually in their favor.

The whole text on a computer screen thing totally kills sarcasm. Of course, I'm not all that good at getting the spoken variety either, unless it's really obvious, and even then I usually ignore it, because like violence, it's an option of last resort.

Violence is what makes the world go 'round.

Striking Scorpions are good against Guard. High I, improved WS, decent S, excellent Armour, buckets of attacks.

Guard DO NOT like HTH combat.

Guard are also probably the worst army for Harlequins. Sure they will carve up whichever unit they engage in short order, but are then left facing a lot of the recently deceased buddies with guns that aren't too bothered by the fixed save. Zappy death is sure to follow as a form of divine retribution. Harlequins ideally need a high point cost unit to go up against, as the sheer amount of rending and their high I really comes into it's own then. Guard have no such units.

I'll second the calls for more Dire Avengers. They are so superior to Guardians it's not funny. Only take Guardians if you think you will need the additional Heavy Weapons. A single multiwound Bright Lance is well worth considering, as you can plonk it in cover, hopefully on a nearby objective, and take shots of opportunity.

Avatar. Again, Guard are his nightmare as the amount of damage he can do is severely limited by their cheap as chips nature.

Now, your Fireprism isn't a bad choice here, but I don't think I would ever field just one. The temptation of souping up it's shot, and in doing so keeping one of them out of sight is very strong. Not always practical, but I'd prefer to keep that option open.

Dire Avengers with bladestorm and Eldrad with Doom. With the way 5th ed rules work now, Wave Serpents and their "Energy Prow" are pretty darn durable these days. Couple that with the defensive weapon drop to S4, and Falcons just don't really have their place anymore.

Fireprisms are just as survivable with a holofield, have longer range, and BS4, and Wave Serpents negate Meltas (which will surely be in range as you're dropping troops off).

Loading up a bunch of Dire Avengers in Wave serpents and rushing the guard lines (Move 24", stay in your vehicle until your turn) and then have some Striking Scorpions outflank (or hell even ride in their own Wave Serpent) and then Bladestorm and Multi-Charge everybody should have you win the day.

If you want tough.. get 10 wraithguard with a farseer, 3x5man pathfinder teams. 2x5man wraithguard + warlock (with destructor) in wave serpents. 1500pts of hardy dardy death. Perhaps a cheap squad of shadowseer harlequins (these guys really are hard to hit!) as a cover for the foot wraithguard instead of a pathfinder squad.

There you go. A hardy hardy army. Everything either have 3+/5+ rerollable saves, 2+, or is untargetable past 24". Or mechanised.

Personally... I think if you want to play a really tough to kill army... why play Eldar? The nice thing about Eldar is that they offer an alternative to the T4 3+ and/or 2+ universe that exists every where else.

I have a lot more fun with a "glass" eldar army because I get to apply a bit more strategy and tactics to succeed.

Learn2Troll.

Seriously? You should be shot, dragged through the streets of Dakkaville and your corpse hung and displayed before its citizens.

Eldar are fine. They have a handful of really good, viable and competitive lists. Yours, of which, isn't one of them. Look at some of the Mech lists for the Eldar some of the War Walker spam lists, buy some new models and get back out there.

Only Dark Angel players are allowed to be so moody.

Try this...
http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/227419.page

1)Avatar
2)2 11 man guardian squads,bright lance and starcannon
warlock each
3)6 Dire avengers
4)10 harlequins
5)Fire prism
6)support battery vibro cannons (2)

This list is not good vs. IG as Eldar can hardly outshoot Guard.

I'd take 6 Pathfinders, two DA units in Serpents, a Farseer with doom, and fill the rest with HS tanks like naked Prisms.