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So there are 16 armies presently:

01) Black Templars
02) Blood Angels
03) Chaos Space Marines
04) Chaos Daemons
05) Dark Angels
06) Dark Eldar
07) Eldar
08) Grey Knights
09) Imperial Guard
10) Necrons
11) Orks
12) Sisters of Battle
13) Space Marines
14) Space Wolves
15) Tau
16) Tyranids

Which of these would you rate as the being in the top 50%

G

you forgot orks, which, from what im told, are THE army right now.

Thanks Dave I went back and edited the OP.


My 1st choice would be Orks... no surprises there... I would pick Chaos Daemons for my 2nd choice and then CSM due to lash spam.


Here are the armies I would place in the lower half:

Dark Angels, Dark Eldar, Grey Knights, IG, Necrons, Space Marines, Space Wolves, Tau, Tyranids


So that leaves Black Templars, Blood Angels, Eldar and Sisters of Battle. My rankings are based upon various observations.

G

Hmm...good question. I'll assume you mean most competitive army (even if only one core build from the codex is competitive).

I'd say that something like:

Orks
Chaos
Eldar
Daemons
Sisters of Battle
Blood Angels
Black Templar
Tyranids



are the 8 top 50%. Daemonhunters LR spam may put it above Tyranids if only due to some dodgy rules (better psy hood, ignoring eternal warrior).

I'm not sure if half/half is really a good enough breakdown though - I think Orks, Chaos Lash/oblit spam, and Daemons are a cut above, and *maybe* the eldar bike council will move it up there but I have no idea, I've never had a chance to play it/play against it. Being in the top half but below those other codexes isn't necessarily a great consolation prize for some armies.

Yes I meant the most competitive armies even if there is only one good build. I have been playing BA for around 4-5 years now so I obviously have a bias.

G

Yeah, I play against tyranids a lot so I have a bias...though admittedly they haven't been winning very much in 5e so maybe I should move them out. I still think they have viable builds, they just aren't able to run roughshod over people in the same way as in 5e (and I see them losing to daemons and orks a lot which of course doesn't tell me anything)

Top 3 armies:
- Orks
- Chaos Marines
- Chaos Daemons

There is a post at TacoBell of Lost Souls debating this:
http://belloflostsouls.blogspot.com/2009/03/40k-editorial-rating-armies.html

It is easy to say what the strongest armies are, and most people know what the weakest armies are. The problem is there is a “muddled middle” that could win.

The Best:
01) Orks. This army is so good that a noob can win with them. Lots of good units and choices that there are many ways to make a winning army.

02) Chaos Space Marines. What breaks this army is the Lash of Submission. If that was taken out of the codex they would be good, but not great. With the Lash they still have good troops, versatile oblits and good HQ selections.

03) Chaos Daemons. I was on the fence about this army, but I will put them in the top. They have Bloodcrushers, Soulgrinders and HQs that are very good, and powerful. Their downside is that they are very random. They do better in the US system that rewards massacres because when they do win, they win big.


The Middle
04) Eldar.I need to see if the UK results can be duplicated in the US before I put them into the top tier, but they have the making for a top tier army. They have very durable troops in Wraithguard and Pathfinders, and they can buy 5 Dire Avengers to make Falcons scoring. A lot of people thought that the fact that Falcons can now be penetrated means that they can be killed easier but the changes in the damage chart and the fact that they can be obscured by terrain seems to have made them even more durable. Add to this the Seer Council which is one of 5th editions best units.

05) Sisters of Battle.SoB got a good boost from 5th, but still have trouble tangling with the top tier lists. They shoot well, but in 5th edition the best armies are all assault armies, and that is where they are vulnerable.

06a) Black Templars
06b) Blood Angels
06c) Space Marines.
06d) Space Wolves
06e) Dark Angels
All of the SM/MEQs are about the same. Black Templars are the best of the bunch, but they are all pretty close. They have some good choices and have a lot of customization possibilities, but I think the reason why they do not do so well is that they are seen as a newbie army, and the best players shy away from them. Another up-side to them is that meta game that said that you have to kill MEQs seems like it is slowly going away.

11) Dark Eldar.Win big, lose big army. They can be very deadly in a good player’s hand.

12) Tyranids. Another victim of 5th edition. Their main source of anti-tank (venom cannon) was neutered as well as rending, but you still have to respect this army.

The Worst
13) Tau.The players that did will with Tau in 4th edition are not doing as well in 5th, and a lot of them abandoned them. They do better in the UK system that rewards wins, rather than the US system that rewards big wins.

14) Grey Knights.This army has no decent anti-tank, and the only build that has a chance of winning is by spamming Land Raiders. I think that as the meta-game changes, and people bring more AV14, they will take more anti-AV14 weapons.

15) Necrons.Talking about 5th edition killing an army! Now that glancing no longer can kill a vehicle they have a lot of trouble against armor. They are now easily wiped out in assault etc.

16) Imperial Guard. Kill points are an auto-lose for this army, and with 5th edition came some bad changes like assault armies can now run and get to you even faster so they have less rounds of shooting, and that there is no longer any entanglement from a blown-up transport. Luck for them there will be a new codex for them so this might change.

Green Blow Fly wrote:So there are 16 armies presently:

01) Black Templars
02) Blood Angels
03) Chaos Space Marines
04) Chaos Daemons
05) Dark Angels
06) Dark Eldar
07) Eldar
08) Grey Knights
09) Imperial Guard
10) Necrons
11) Orks
12) Sisters of Battle
13) Space Marines
14) Space Wolves
15) Tau
16) Tyranids

Which of these would you rate as the being in the top 50%

G

Technically Grey Knights are Daemonhunters and Sisters of Battle are Witch Hunters, but I get the idea.

Very excellent ranking Alan... my only point of contention is that I would put BA/BT above the other loyalist power armor armies, probably above eldar too. Eldar are still strong but you have to know what you are doing.

I would rank daemons at number one because they can beat the top two armies BUT as you said there is the randomness and so far no one has won a big event yet with them. They are a very new army so seeing some vets such as yourself rank them that high is very encouraging to say the least.

The BoLS ranking was very poor in my opinion and came across as very rushed. IG in the top 5... No way.

My top 8

1) Orks
2) Chaos
3) Spacemarines
4) witchhunters
5) Blood Angels
6) daemons
7) Black templars
8) Space wolves

My list is a little weird compaired to everyone else's but this is what I see near my area

I may be the only one ranking space marines this high... but when used right their codex is strong.

I wouldn't be surprised if Space Marines jump up a few spots after we see the adepticon results. I don't think that the codex had been out long enough at Baltimore, and there are some power builds in there - whether it be Sternguards & Cantor, TH/SS spam, or something else entirely.

There is no doubt that Space Marines have underperformed.

I think there are a couple of reasons for it.

1. The army is seen to be a newbie army so some players stay away from it.
2. The very good players seem to take the proven top tier armies that they know that they can win with.
3. A lot of SM armies seem like they are a mis-mash of random units that do not go well together.
4. People gear up to beat MEQs.

It will be interesting to see what happens when some good players get their hands on them and see what armies they can make. My last 2 losses were to very good players that played Ultramarines and Black Templars.

5. Many SM armies are fluffy so unaffective in some ways.

Redbeard wrote: Sternguards & Cantor, TH/SS spam, or something else entirely.

by something else entirely, you mean nothing else right? i kid..

Actually, I've been theorizing that a demi-company (3 tactical, 1 assault, 1 devastator, 1 or 2 HQ's, and 1 heavy-hitter a la sternguard or TH/SS Terminators) would be a very competitive force.

A guy i run with has a list with 2 tact squads in rhinos, sniper scouts with camo cloaks, master of the forge with conversion beamer, thunderfire cannon, and 5 drop podding dreadnoughts, 2 with multimelta/sb 2 with twin linked heavy flamer/heavy flamer, and one ironclad.

he does very well

06a) Black Templars
06b) Blood Angels
06c) Dark Angels
06d) Space Wolves
06f) Space Marines. All of the SM/MEQs are about the same. Black Templars are the best of the bunch, but they are all pretty close. They have some good choices and have a lot of customization possibilities, but I think the reason why they do not do so well is that they are seen as a newbie army, and the best players shy away from them. Another up-side to them is that meta game that said that you have to kill MEQs seems like it is slowly going away

blackmoor, you cant really throw all in the same here as not all chapter function the same.
all have different play styles and work better in different situations.
for example; BA kick ass in combat compared to basic marines.
DA speak for themselves here with the raven / death.


allthough, this may be biased due to my love for BA



1: orks without a doubt.
2: daemons.
3: blood angels.
4: chaos SM.
5: wolves.
6: eldar.
7: greys.
8: marines (vanilla)


prolly missed things out, but yea

This is what I believe to be rankings

1. orks
2. daemons
3. chaos
4. sisters
5. space marines
6. eldar
7. black templars
8. blood angels

9. tyranids
10. dark eldar
11. tau
12. space puppies
13. grey knights
14. imperial guard
15. necrons
16. dark angels

At least that's what I think they are.

IMO top 8:

Orks
Chaos
Daemons
Eldar
BA
Templars
Bugs
Space Marines

I agree with Blackmoor in that there are really 3 tiers rather than two.

In no particular order among the tiers:

orks
daemons
chaos
--------------------------
tyranids
sisters
space marines
eldar
black templars
blood angels
dark eldar
space wolves
-------------------------
tau
grey knights
imperial guard
necrons
dark angels

I'd actually put the 'nids toward the high end of the second tier since even with a balanced list they can still outshoot most dedicated shooty armies.

From my experiences

T 1
1) Orks
2) Chaos
3) Deamons

T 2
4) Nidz
5/6) BT & BA
7) Eldar
8/9) SW & Marines
10) Sisters
11) DA (Deathraven or Deathwing only otherwise T 3)

T 3
12) Dark Eldar
13) Guard (potentail T 2 if new dex is good, but definatly not T 1 until I see it)
14) Tau
15) Grey Knights
16) Necrons

My top list:
Orks
CSM
SM
Daemons
Nidzilla
Eldar
BT
Sisters

Wuesi you are always laughing! Good on you mate.



G

yermom wrote:This is what I believe to be rankings

1. orks
2. daemons
3. chaos
4. sisters
5. space marines
6. eldar
7. black templars
8. blood angels

9. tyranids
10. dark eldar
11. tau
12. space puppies
13. grey knights
14. imperial guard
15. necrons
16. dark angels

At least that's what I think they are.

Whoa! Freaky. What is the math on someone having the exact same rankings out of 16 armies. This is exactly my list.

No matter how many times a thread comes along with this topic, it is enjoyable and fun for me to participate in.

The top 3 are Orks, Eldar and Chaos. Nothing else comes remotely close.

The last game at table 1 of the GT was Eldar (me) fighting Eldar (Ugo). Ugo won and I dropped to fourth, but until that point I was the only player on 5 wins. Ugo was the only player to go undefeated (he did 5 wins and a draw). 2 & 3 were chaos.

torgoch you are a mad genius!!!

G(enius )

torgoch how do you account for the poor showing for Chaos daemons?

G

I wonder if 1500 hurts Daemons, similarly to how you think that 1750 hurts seer council eldar. For example, just looking at it real quick it seems pretty hard to put together a 1500 fateweaver/bloodcrusher list that I'd feel happy with over 6 games. You'd either not have enough BCs or not enough troops or not enough anti-tank. But I haven't actually tried it so I can't say.

There were only like 14 Daemon armies there in general - they are pretty evenly distributed based on that number. But people weren't bringing a lot of them, for whatever reasons.

Shep wrote:

yermom wrote:This is what I believe to be rankings

1. orks
2. daemons
3. chaos
4. sisters
5. space marines
6. eldar
7. black templars
8. blood angels

9. tyranids
10. dark eldar
11. tau
12. space puppies
13. grey knights
14. imperial guard
15. necrons
16. dark angels

At least that's what I think they are.

Whoa! Freaky. What is the math on someone having the exact same rankings out of 16 armies. This is exactly my list.

No matter how many times a thread comes along with this topic, it is enjoyable and fun for me to participate in.

Well the math says not good but, great minds do tend to think alike