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Here's the top 30 for the GT

1: Eldar
2: CSM
3: CSM
4: Eldar
5: Orks
6: CSM
7: Nid's
8: Orks
9: Witchunters
10: Orks
11: Orks
12: Orks
13: Orks
14: CSM
15: Eldar
16: Eldar
17: Orks (This was 2 Warbosses and 2 Units of Nob Bikers only)
18: Orks
19: Eldar
20: Space Marines
21: Tau
22: Orks
23: Imperial Guard
24: Witchunters
25: Space Wolves
26: Eldar
27: Eldar
28: Eldar
29: Orks
30: Orks

Notice that Orks + Eldar are 19 of the top 30 (almost 2/3 of the top placers).

Green Blow Fly wrote:torgoch how do you account for the poor showing for Chaos daemons?

G

I don't really know much about chaos daemons to be honest. There was a Ku'gath list that did pretty well I think, but in general they don't seem to have anything that can stand up to a seer council or nob biker charge, and look horribly vulnerable to having their assault units simply lashed away from a chaos army.

lambadomy wrote:I wonder if 1500 hurts Daemons, similarly to how you think that 1750 hurts seer council eldar. For example, just looking at it real quick it seems pretty hard to put together a 1500 fateweaver/bloodcrusher list that I'd feel happy with over 6 games. You'd either not have enough BCs or not enough troops or not enough anti-tank. But I haven't actually tried it so I can't say.

There were only like 14 Daemon armies there in general - they are pretty evenly distributed based on that number. But people weren't bringing a lot of them, for whatever reasons.

I don't think 1500 really hurts daemons. It makes some builds problematic (Fateweaver+Crushers is tough to do at 1500) but there are other, strong builds that you can throw onto the table.

@Centurian:

True, just thinking out loud about that specific list as it is a popular one, at least theoryhammer wise. I think that lack of representation hurt Daemons as much as anything. Can't say what caused the lack of representation - 6 games too many to risk getting the wrong half of your army? Too much metal make people want to build cheaper, equally effective armies? Too many people gearing up for serious deep strike defense in the metagame? Who knows.

Points values play a big part on how good an army is IMO. Daemons can get crazy stupid at high points levels, but have little room for error at 1500, while things like double lash tend to top out at about 1850.

My rankings are as follows:

1. CSM (Always in contetion for best general in every tournament)
2. Chaos Deamons (The higher the points level the scarrier this army can be)
3. Orks (Nob bikers & loota spam)
4. Eldar (Eldrad can be a great centerpiece)
5. BT (hand to hand is where 5th edition is won)
6. Vanilla Space Marines (Vulkan & Pedro can create some very hard lists)
7. Space Wolves (Still need to work some edition issues out)
8. Dark Eldar (IMO only 1 good build in 5th but it can ROCK!)
9. Nids (Nidzilla took a hit, but can still hang with most)
10. Sisters (Effective but limiting)
11. Blood Angels (Assault heavy but....)
12. Dark Angels (everything just costs too much)
13. IG (About to change.....)
14. Tau- Not very 5th edition friemdly
15. Deamonhunters- Stand alone they just don't have the big guns.
16. Necrons- At smaller point games they are toast, at larger point games they have a chance.

I think the top armies really depends on points played and whether you are on the Massacre/Solid Victory/Victory/Loss or Win/Loss system. USA is 1750 Massacre/Solid Victory/Victory/Loss system which is alot different then the 1500 Win/Loss system of the UK.

Certain things like Nidzilla and Nob Bikers are much stronger at 1500 but lose some effectiveness at higher point values and other armies like Fateweaver + Bloodcrushers do not have enough points at 1500 but 1750-1850 they do.

That being said from my experience in the USA playing at 1750 for massacres the top 8 are.

1 Orks - great troops in either nob bikers or horde boys, great in assault and good shooting with cover saves and wargh for more movement. Best all around.
2 Chaos Space Marines - great troops, Plague Marines, Berserkers, Noise Marines along with Lash of Submission and templates from Obliterators, Vindicators or Defilers make this a great army.
3 Daemons - Fateweaver BloodCrusher combo with deepstrike to get you in assault range quick and tough troops with Plague bearers
4 Space marines - fairly resilent troops and lots of goodies like stormshield termies, cyclones etc, some friends been doing really well with them.
5. Witch Hunters - good troop choices and ally choices. Exorcists are pretty good. Friends put out good results with them.
6. Blood Angels - the assault marine army is pretty good in 5th which is the assault edition but they miss out on some new toys though
7 Black Templar - prefered enemy is pretty good. fairly resilent troops and a good amount of marine goodies.
8. Tyranids Nidzilla is still pretty good.

My top 4 are:

Orks
CSM
SM
Daemons

Crap, I don't see an edit button...

I just wanted to post my reasons:


Orks: DUH!

CSM: Lash armies with Plasma Oblits and Vindies along with Plague marines in rhinos can hurt loads of armies.

SM: I think that, used correctly, Drop-podding Marines with Ironclads and all sorts of nasties can really put on the hurt.

Daemons: Good combos, but their random deployment makes them susceptible to a bad roll making the lose.


-A.

EDIT: Dammit! There it is!

1.) Daemons
1.) Eldar
1.) Orks

Daemons: Wow, the only army that stands a chance is the army created to beat them, daemonhunters and I have seen an anti-daemon cheesed out list lose to daemons. One downside is the models to make a good army are retardedly expensive (personal experiance, thank god for bdays and christmas)

Eldar: Best mech army out there, can be pretty cheesed out if you play it certain ways, bad thing is you have to know how to play 'em

Orks: The rulebook is what makes these guys awesome, that may sound odd but orks seem to be the army that the new 5th ed was made for and other armies just have to squeeze the last drop of cheese out of that velveeta packaging to contest with them. downside is they are easier than eldar tanks to kill

I rated these guys up top because besides orks, only downsides I see are not apart of the game (wallet, or player experiance) orks are up there just cuz GW just wants to see other armies squirm against them I suppose

Not really sure how BA keep rating really high among people's listings. Dont get me wrong, I am working on a BA list for an escalation league (more out of the desire for a challenge than anything else) and have always loved the army, but I really don't see how they can go toe-to-toe with even regular space marines, figuring in their lack of the newest stuff and their terrible premiums on their units anymore.

Please, enlighten me.

here's my top 8

1. CSM
2. Orks
3. Eldar
4. BT
5. Nids
6. Daemons
7. SM
8. Grey Knights

0ldsk00l wrote:Not really sure how BA keep rating really high among people's listings. Dont get me wrong, I am working on a BA list for an escalation league (more out of the desire for a challenge than anything else) and have always loved the army, but I really don't see how they can go toe-to-toe with even regular space marines, figuring in their lack of the newest stuff and their terrible premiums on their units anymore.

Please, enlighten me.

Blood Angels pretty much suck. The one real advantage they have going for them, assault squads as troops, is neutralized by the fact that their assault squads can't take any worthwhile weapons (overpriced plasma pistols... woooo....) and even after you take into account the cost of the "free" death company are horribly over-priced compared to their codex equivalents. The Baal predator can be kind of fun... but overall they're just not good.

lambadomy wrote:I think that lack of representation hurt Daemons as much as anything. Can't say what caused the lack of representation - 6 games too many to risk getting the wrong half of your army? Too much metal make people want to build cheaper, equally effective armies? Too many people gearing up for serious deep strike defense in the metagame? Who knows.

I think this is pretty much spot on. I couldn't make it to the UKGT final, but at my heat there were maybe two deamon armies out of ~150. It'll probably take someone to win a major tournament for them to take off this side of the pond.

willydstyle wrote:

0ldsk00l wrote:Not really sure how BA keep rating really high among people's listings. Dont get me wrong, I am working on a BA list for an escalation league (more out of the desire for a challenge than anything else) and have always loved the army, but I really don't see how they can go toe-to-toe with even regular space marines, figuring in their lack of the newest stuff and their terrible premiums on their units anymore.

Please, enlighten me.

Blood Angels pretty much suck. The one real advantage they have going for them, assault squads as troops, is neutralized by the fact that their assault squads can't take any worthwhile weapons (overpriced plasma pistols... woooo....) and even after you take into account the cost of the "free" death company are horribly over-priced compared to their codex equivalents. The Baal predator can be kind of fun... but overall they're just not good.

Yea... then people you are playing suck. BA are an awesome list.

HQ Dante + corbs (JUST LOOK AT HOW THIS COMBOS)
Elite 9-10 DC with Jump packs
Elite Unit of 10 termis with 2 cyclone missiles
Troops 3 units of 5 assault squads
Troops 2 units of 5 tacs in rhinos
fast 3 units of 2 MM attack bikes
Heavy 3 Pred with autocannon top and las sponsons

Don't have the ability to read the codex here for points but yea

BAALs are good, but not that great when compared to other options in 5th

Dante and Corbulo are two of the scariest special characters out there. Plus, they even have the 'old' Narthecium, which in some situations is better than granting FNP to a single unit.

I think there's Tiers - three maybe even four.

A lot depends on match-ups, and people forget that. For example, Tau can be a paper to someone else's rock - denying cover saves can be huge, Str 10 AP 1 railguns too - but there are a lot of scissor armies out there that hose the Tau then.

In some ways, I fear the 'unconventional' builds and the uncommon codex more than the known powerbuilds. You know what nob bikers are going to do. But, if you only play Dark Eldar once every two years, it's not as obvious what they're doing.

Does corb's ability apply while embarked in a rhino?

Oldsk00l: as long as it does not require line of sight, special abilities with a range are measured from the vehicle's hull when a character is embarked.

yes it does, that's part of why he's good.

Frgs just doing quick math on that list and what upgrades *should* be there that list coming in at around 2450. Was that John's ard boyz list or something?

Do you all think IG will be in this list with the new codex...i know its a little early to tell but i was still interested.

Potentially 9 LRBTs? I'd say almost certainly.

I concur with Blackmoor, more or less word for word. Big 3, then middles, then weak dexes.

Im sorry, I couldnt help laughing at the people who placed DA behind necrons, IG, or even tyranids.

I play Deathwing, and also a balanced DA force, so let me make my arguement here for a second.

Now, I personally think Deathwing is an amazing army choice, especially in the right persons hands.

Although all terminators are luck based, and it really is true, I whole heartedly believe that you can destroy a lot of competitive lists with them.

The main reason I regard them so highly is that not only have I beaten, and come damn close to beating ork, CSM, and Pedro competitive lists before, but I did so with a pure DW army. No vehicles, just terminators.

I attest this glorious success mainly due to the fact that the first 50 or so games I played was against my ork friend who likes to bring the most brutal armies against me he can fathom. (The lastest being a 1500 point list with 30+ burnas in battlewagons, and he knows I cant deal with battle wagons with my 'balanced' deathwing list :{)

But my main point is, aside from this little rant, any of those armies can do well in the right general's hands. I have been to tournaments of the 1500 point variety where Grey Knights won, WITHOUT LR spam. And this guy who I referred to played against 2 ork forces.

And although I will admit that many 'dexs are far weaker than others, getting back to my point, the dark angels codex isnt that weak as compared to tyranids, BA, or BT. (I dare to say)

But like I said, Im a deathwing player, so I have a set of strengths that completely rub a lot of armies wrongly.