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With a tip of the hat to Mr. Half Brother here are my thoughts as I read through the new IG army list.

Overall

1. The format is SO #*@ING ANNOYING! Why do I have to look on one page for rules and another for points! Who does this help! Oh and feel no obiligation to put the fluff/rule pages in the same order as the rule/point pages. That would make life easy! I imagine it’s a ploy to get us to buy two books so I can have both pages open at once.
2. I’d much rather have heavy stubbers as a special weapon than sniper rifles. Or even better, both. The plasma gun is still much too good not to take.

Command Squads

3. Dropping the initiative of officers to 3 was a big mistake game design-wise. With I4 players have 3 viable choices power weapons (swing simultaneous with marines), power fists (swing last) or nothing (save points). Now power weapons are pointless, plus since officers are no longer independent fists look even better. And power weapons went up to 10 points vs 5 in the last codex and fists down to 15 from 20. Bad idea. Lends itself to look alike lists.
4. They should have left storm bolters and combi bolters as an option. The officers can’t shoot, they can’t fight, all they can do is hide and issue orders. Not too heroic.
5. I like that command squads are not staffed by vets, about time.
6. Yay we can take carapace for our command squads! Too many points but it’s about time!
7. Irked that the advisors cannot take wargear, I’d love to fit 3 or 4 more power swords into a command squad. I like that they can get carapace or cameo for no additional points. And they are useful. And they swell your numbers for taking casualties.
8. All in all, happy.

Special Characters
9. Creed is too essential, again dull game design.
10. Hotshot laser is a darn stupid name. I appreciate that they gave it a different name to stop confusion with the older codexes but darn… can’t you find a better name? There must be grimdark names they’ve not used yet.
11. Iron Hand does not have a power fist! He has a S6 power weapon attack at I3. That’s just weird. Why do they do this? Why replace a perfectly clear set of rules with some funky and not very useful set of rules for a little-loved special character? AND he costs more than Creed? AND he’s an HQ while the other lesser commanders are troops? Nope, we’ll never see him.
12. Thank goodness Yarrick’s power claw didn’t get special rules. But his force field and bale eye do… ARG!
13. LOL he has a power claw, CC weapon, storm bolter AND bolt pistol. And his bale eye of course which is a hotshot laser. So at 12” he has 3 different options to shoot at you.

Other HQ
14. Wasn’t there a rumor the Lord Commissar would get a plastic kit? Anyone heard anything?
15. He’s an independent character? No thanks then.
16. Same with Primaris Psyker, no psychic hood? I3, 5+ save force weapon? Well no thanks then.
17. Servitors are BS3 now? AND their heavy bolters cost more than command squads? Goodbye.
18. Oh and servitors no longer have power fists, they have servo fists. So instead of having 1 S6 attack, they have 1 S3 attack + 1 S8 attack at I0. Again, stupidly complicated, I wonder how many people will forget this?
19. It looks like command squads are NOT required. Well, well. I could do a pretty interesting chaos army with this list, led by a psyker, with lots of heretic priests… It would suck but now I’m temped.

Snack break
20. Season 4 of BSG is really quite good. A definite step up from the depressing, padded season 3.
21. Is it just me or does diet coke in China taste different? Of course they call it Coke Light so maybe it’s a different formula. I think the store down the road has imported coke from the U.S., I’ll have to compare.
22. Gosh I love quaker granola bars.

Elites
23. Ogryn are 40 points, Grey Knight termis 46. Well that was easy.
24. Ratlings lose their 0-1 restriction and go down in points. So the mighty 30 Ratling army is now an option.
25. Why do Ratlings exist when Squats do not? Come on GW, 3-10 Squat Thunders for 10 points each, T4, relentless, slow and purposeful, choice of heavy weapons. DONE you’d shut up everyone. Oh well… Maybe in 6th.
26. Psyker Battle Squad, YES PLEASE! At last, something exciting and new in this book! And useful! My =][= themed IG is getting at least one squad, maybe 3. Hee, hee they have las pistols. Y’know, in case unleashing the horrors of the warp doesn’t do the job they can go PEW! PEW! PEW!
27. Stormies, a lot’s already been said. Yeah the new Hot Shot gun is odd, AP3 but 18” range? AND 16 points? AND lots of special rules? They’ll need a think.
28. No melta bombs for storm troopers? But enginseers can take them? And Tech Marines can’t? Must be a new quartermaster manual.
29. Stormies should be able to take power weapons as one of their special options, they you'd have a decent counter-assault squad.
30. Marbo is no longer Sly… And lost his power weapon. But now he’s a Callidus. With a demo charge. Welcome to the force Marbo.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:30. Marbo is no longer Sly… And lost his power weapon. But now he’s a Callidus. With a demo charge. Welcome to the force Marbo.

Don't forget the pistol that can pin you.

Troops
31. Yeah, officers should be able to take lasguns, bolt guns, storm bolters and combi bolters.
32. Oh they can take bolt guns, that’s nice.
33. Putting Captain Russia and Captain Arabia in troops was a good move. But it makes Creed even more appealing with no competition.
34. Hmm, I can put commissars in EVERY squad? Another idea for the Chaos cult.
35. Line sergeants can take melta bombs but not storm trooper sergeants?
36. w00t sergeants can take power swords again! And Commissars! Blob squad with 10 power weapons?
37. So heavy weapon teams ARE equipped with las guns? But they’re 2 wound single models. So I guess they can fire lasguns OR their heavy? This 2 models 1 team thing is SO dumb. And they get mortars for free, so I guess GW did decide mortars are worthless.
38. The blob rule makes Conscripts worthless. Even the Russian next wave rule cost 75 points more. Maybe if they could take a pistol/CC or if you could get Next Wave without taking Capt Russia…
39. Vets are troops! W00t!
40. As usual, GW can’t write anything clearly. “Grenadiers: The squad replaces its flak armor with carapace armor.” So why not just write carapace armor. Especially since this doctrine had naught to do with grenades and is not the same as the Grenadiers doctrine from 3.5?
41. Hold on! Vets lost infiltrate? And they don’t get it from the camo doctrine? #$%^ that sucks!
42. “Never give up, never surrender!” cause these kids today, they like nothing better than jokes from 10 year old Tim Allen films. That and Rambo. That’s why GW is giving them both. I’m not even going to look up what that does. Why not just call it ‘stubborn’ or ‘fearless’ or whatever the #$%@ it actually does?
43. Penal Legion, nice idea, happy to have them back. Rules ain’t great though. Boy wouldn’t it be great if they included 10 PL heads in those new 33% more expensive infantry boxes?
Chimera
44. Heavy stubber costs the same as heavy bolter? LOL!
45. Smoke and searchlights are build in but extra armor is not? Has anyone NOT taken extra armor? Ever?
46. So the Chimera has 6 lasgun fire points, but now we can only use 5. But we can use any weapon. OK. Whatever.

Snack break
47. BSG is turning depressing again. Can’t we just have some pretty space battles? Please?
48. I wonder if this is still good to eat.
49. All right! A debate on parliamentary procedure! Now BSG is taking off!

Fast Attack
50. So searchlights are mandatory on Chimeras but not Sentinels? Cause why would scout vehicles need to see stuff.
51. Hunter Killer Missiles have not been able to hunt and kill since 2nd edition, why are they still called that rather than, I dunno, missiles?
52. Scout sentinels can’t get extra armor but armored sentinels have it built in. I like this new split in the unit.
53. OK so the Rough Rider Sgt can take a melta bomb? I have to go back and check this. Nope, Storm Troopers can’t. I bet this wouldn’t have happened if we still had a real wargear section.
54. Mogul Kamir lost his power fist but got a cyber horse. Somewhere someone with a 15 year old Mogul bionic claw conversion is pissed.
55. The Infernal Canines don’t get smoke for free.
56. Ah the Valkyrie, making the Infernal Canines irrelevant. They get searchlights for free! Y’know the HK missile should be replaced with the Hellstrike missile. That would make sense. Oh and isn’t Hellstrike the name of the rocket they mount on Predator drones?
57. Oooo…. Vendetta! Oh well Valkyrie nice knowing you. But I’ll still call my Vendettas Valkyries cause that’s a cooler name.

"5. I like that command squads are not staffed by vets, about time. "

call me still asleep, but i thought the CCS had vets staffing it?

The snacks section sounds broken

alarmingrick wrote:"5. I like that command squads are not staffed by vets, about time. "

call me still asleep, but i thought the CCS had vets staffing it?

Ah, typo. "are NOW staffed by vets" thanks.

Haha if anything this is making me laugh lol, you make it depressingly funny in some sences,
looks like we might be in fora suprise about the IG armies that might be propping up when it's released over here.

Nevermind ey
All the best
Wolf

Kid_Kyoto wrote:The plasma gun is still much too good not to take.

Lol wut? People still take plasma over melta??

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Now power weapons are pointless,

They always were, your doods are st. 3. Fists should have gone down to 15 and in my opinion should still be less. How much do other armies pay for st. 6 power weapons that go last? That is basically what it is. You are wounding Nid MCs on a 4...

The rest is just pointing out how mediocre things are obviously mediocre.

Heavy Support
58. Exterminators should not be the same price as a Leman. And the Punisher should not be 30 points more.
59. Sponson heavy bolters are up 10 points. Plasma sponsons are pricy! I think dirt cheap Lemans with a hull HB are the way to go.
60. Oh hey, Lemans get free smoke.
61. We finally get a tank ace and he’s 50 points?
62. Hydra… the Elf Killah. Yes I will take one thank you.
63. New artillery types confuse my poor brain. No thanks.
64. Manticore, grade A bang-bang. Yes please.
65. Deathstrike? Deathstrike? We don’t get the damn Salamander but we get the ICBM? Who the hell designed this book?

Final thoughts
66. Well 5 years later we have a new IG book. By my reckoning I have 4 IG armies in various states of non-readiness. Zombie IG (my second army ever, circa 2000), the Estonian Drop Troops (100% non-GW figures), Inquisition IG (who were supposed to just be auxilleries but kept growing) and SWAT team IG. Both the Inquisition and the Zombie IG are now clamoring for attention. Not so much the SWAT team.
67. I can see Inquisitor Kuroda leading some Psychic Choirs and Valkyries against his hated foe – EVERYONE. While the Punisher is stupidly priced it seems the perfect Inquisition weapon. 2 Punishers and the plasma tank would still be inferior to 3 Lemans but would terrify people. 2 Punishers and Storm Lord would make me smile for days. And some carapace vets of course.
68. Gilgamesh and his zombie legions could get some 50 man blobs with 10 power weapons (why? Because ZOMBIES that’s why).
69. Now the ability to take carapace vets and command squads suddenly makes Arbites viable again. Cause y’know, a 5th IG army wouldn’t be too excessive would it? And they could all be in Valkyries too!
70. G’nite all…

PanamaG wrote:

Kid_Kyoto wrote:The plasma gun is still much too good not to take.

Lol wut? People still take plasma over melta??

24" range, 2 shots at close range. Meltas paired with heavy weapons are a waste of points and a waste of special weapon slot. At 5 points GLs start to look useful, till you remember getting crap for 5 points still means you got crap. Plasma will toast light vehicles and any infantry in the game. So yes. Plasma.

Kid_Kyoto wrote:Now power weapons are pointless,

They always were, your doods are st. 3. Fists should have gone down to 15 and in my opinion should still be less. How much do other armies pay for st. 6 power weapons that go last? That is basically what it is. You are wounding Nid MCs on a 4...

At 5 points a PW on an officer made some sense. You at least had a chance to take a jarhead or two with you as you went down. Now if you do live through I4 (more likely since you're now an invisible character), you may as well spend 5 points more and have S6.

Given your apparent love for Zombie IG, I think you should check out this trailer for an upcoming Norweigan flick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-KQh87_V2Q


Looks right up your ally (and, anyone else who finds the idea of Zombie Nazis appealing).

With the prevalence of cover in 5th plasma isnt worth it. Plasma is an armored infantry killer, not a tank buster. It can a termie or marine sure, but if he is in cover it isnt worth it. And it gets hot.

Melta can take care of a termie too, especially if you have 3, it isnt rapid fire so you can assault and combo charge (which you should be doing anyway, or just stand there and die) It rapes light armor rather than have a mild chance of penning a rhino...AND it is the one thing in the guard army that reliably kills land raiders. Melta also IDs most things.

No storm bolters on officers?!?!?! Looks like if I ever play 40k again, I have at least one useless model. bah.

(Not to mention the large number of power fist commisars that I have)

"65. Deathstrike? Deathstrike? We don’t get the damn Salamander but we get the ICBM? Who the hell designed this book? "

and the best part was i got six of the Salamanders, but no, they didn't bring them into the "mainstream" of the IG list. i completely agree with you. why the ICBM but not the Salamander? makes no sense, but then again, look at who we're talking about.

They totally dropped the ball with plasmaguns. Making Grenade Launcher Krak grenades AP3 would have solved the Plasmagun 'problem'.

The weapon upgrades for sergeants are a PITA as well no Lasgun but access to power weapon WTF!

Rough Riders seem to be well thought out, must be a typo.

Heh. Very nice Kyoto. Nice homage to my stream-of-consciouness review of the rules section. I still will do a full review once I have the actual book in my hands (I already have it on pre-order, so not long now).

Yeah, I was wondering how much appetite dakka has for reviews. I'm considering doing a review myself as well, but I figure it'll probably be mostly repeats by the time I can purchase a copy.

Anyone who hates the Deathstrike can die in a fire.

It's completely overpriced, the range is ridiculous, and there's no model yet.

But that piece of fluff at the bottom of the entry alone makes me want to take it.

I hate it because the Deathstrike rules are hopeless at representing what a Deathstrike actually is. The Deathstrike should be an Apoc unit, laucning Barrage Bombs and Titan Warp Missiles, not some piddly HS slot in a random Guard army.

The Deathstrike. Where, I call my friend, ask if he's playing 40k at his house, and then tell him I launched one and his guys need to take saves...

Valkyrie too pricy

Vendetta way too cheap! !!
And GW know this too thus they let FW make more
money off the kits -_-

sentinels too expensive , chimera can do everything and do it cheaper.
(well minus the plasma cannon , AC and ML) but for the same bs3 i would stick to hwt

All I can say is, I plan on getting at least one Deathstrike.
Not for regular play, mind.

But it's a perfect objective unit.

"(well minus the plasma cannon , AC and ML) but for the same bs3 i would stick to hwt "

@ Luna, you can get a FW turret that has the Auto cannon. no luck on the other 2 though.

Hahaha, I didn't think about that. The deathstirke is invincible, it will always at least contest an objective!

I was actually meaning to use it AS an objective.
It'd make for an awesome kill-team objective, it'd make an awesome objective marker, etc.

Polonius wrote:Yeah, I was wondering how much appetite dakka has for reviews. I'm considering doing a review myself as well, but I figure it'll probably be mostly repeats by the time I can purchase a copy.

I was planning on doing a review, once the official GW hardcopy is available to replace my PB softcopy, but I'm not sure I'll still have the interest in doing a review.

Tho the non-IG-playing crowd sure is wound up over the new IG book, so maybe we should just leave it to them?

JohnHwangDD wrote:

Polonius wrote:Yeah, I was wondering how much appetite dakka has for reviews. I'm considering doing a review myself as well, but I figure it'll probably be mostly repeats by the time I can purchase a copy.

I was planning on doing a review, once the official GW hardcopy is available to replace my PB softcopy, but I'm not sure I'll still have the interest in doing a review.

Tho the non-IG-playing crowd sure is wound up over the new IG book, so maybe we should just leave it to them?

there do seem to be some very steamy views of the new book by non-IG players.

Likewise, I may run out of steam when I finally get a copy of my own, I figure we can all take different approaches. I"m sure HBMC will delight in mocking redundant choices. I'm not a top notch tournament player, but I think I'm a skilled enough competitive gamer to provide at least some tactical insight into the book. One thing I like to do is to try to find uses for all the units, try to foresee ways they'll be used. Any idea what you're going to focus on?

It's impossible to improve the format. You have to look at one place for rules and another place for points. The Tau codex was an attempt at putting it all in one place and it sucked.