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This is an old topic from 40k forums
tau or the covenant from halo
just look at my avatar and you will know what i think
what do you think?

The covenant probably. Similar levels of technology, the covenant have better faster than light tech. The covenant empire is also much, much, much larger. The humans had hundreds of worlds when they went to war with the covenant. The tau have like 13 systems.

well sense i know everyone here would be lying to themselves if they said tau could ever win a war so...

If it were a land based squirmish I'd say Tau thoiugh. Beam rifle is their only sniping type weapon. The wraiths are inaccurate, basically a guess weapon and then the rest is CC orientated (ignorin flying as I have no clue as to Tau flyers).

I am gonna say Covenant.. I mean, the have Jackals, which are pretty much Kroot with 4+ Invuns. Combine this with the Covenant Carbine and Beam Rifle, and you have a fairly tough nut to crack

Captain Kirk.

janeway is cooler then kirk

I don't know, I see alot of similarities between the Tau empire and the Covenant. I think the current Tau empire is essentially the same as the Covenant was when they started off. We can equate alot of units though.

Elites = stealth suits
Jackals ~ Kroot (they dont have shields yet)
Hunters = Crisis Suits (Crisis suits have an advantage with JSJ)
Prophets = Ethereals
Drones = Vespids

Grunts arent really represented in the Covenant.

Either way, the Tau would pwn on the ground, but the Covenant would just glass the planet. Mantas are similar to halcyon class cruisers like the Pillar of Autumn, and iirc thats the best the humans have in Halo. but the Humans won in the end. So I think maybe the Tau would have a fighting chance.

On a slightly unrelated note, why does everyone seem to dislike the tau so much?

Either way, the Tau would pwn on the ground, but the Covenant would just glass the planet. Mantas are similar to halcyon class cruisers like the Pillar of Autumn, and iirc thats the best the humans have in Halo. but the Humans won in the end. So I think maybe the Tau would have a fighting chance.

A manta isn't even close to the pillar of autumns size and the pillar wasn't a very large ship. A mantas a little smaller then a jumbo jet. There was a five minute car chase in halo 1 through the autumn. Also the humans didn't win, the covenant went into a civil war then the flood killed half of their empire. The humans lost hundreds of planets, africa, and all of their military.

I like the tau. It's just that the covenant have a hundred times as many worlds as they do, better shield technology, a much larger fleet, non warp FTL travel, and in all regards nearly match them in weapons tech. It's not that people dislike the tau, they just dismiss them because they are a tiny, tiny, tiny empire thats one hive fleet or major crusade away from annihilation.

garret wrote:janeway is cooler then kirk

Correction: Janeway is HAWTER than kirk. fix'd

Oh...and in relation to the topic, I'd say Covenant would win.

ShumaGorath wrote:

Either way, the Tau would pwn on the ground, but the Covenant would just glass the planet. Mantas are similar to halcyon class cruisers like the Pillar of Autumn, and iirc thats the best the humans have in Halo. but the Humans won in the end. So I think maybe the Tau would have a fighting chance.

A manta isn't even close to the pillar of autumns size and the pillar wasn't a very large ship. A mantas a little smaller then a jumbo jet. There was a five minute car chase in halo 1 through the autumn. Also the humans didn't win, the covenant went into a civil war then the flood killed half of their empire. The humans lost hundreds of planets, africa, and all of their military.

I like the tau. It's just that the covenant have a hundred times as many worlds as they do, better shield technology, a much larger fleet, non warp FTL travel, and in all regards nearly match them in weapons tech. It's not that people dislike the tau, they just dismiss them because they are a tiny, tiny, tiny empire thats one hive fleet or major crusade away from annihilation.

Mantas are that small? Hm i figured they were gigantic space cruisers. My mistake. Covvies would win hands down then.

but elevate the Tau empire to the size of the Covenant empire, and it's gonna be the Tau.

On the topic of the Tau empire being tiny; yes it's tiny NOW, but I think given a thousand year or so they would do pretty damn well. The third sphere has only just begun

I would say that the battles would be fierce, but in the end the space marines would come along and kill them all.

Arbiter is EPic WIN FAIL gUY!

covenant, they have powerful melee ability combined with stealth and hunters would just destroy left and right. They're equally matched in guns but it's their physical strength that will bring them a win.

Space Marines whould just buttkick them, but back on topic. I think Convenat whould win hands down.

Mantas are the rough equivalent of a Titan in land battles and are deployed as attack craft in space battles. They are by no means the average space faring ship in the empire. The manta is the ship that is tasked with transporting and supporting hutner Cadres. Which they hold roughly one of.

And the Tau navy could go head to head with imperial star cruisers, and those things are like the size of maine. The Tau are much more maneuverable when it comes to land and close in space combat. What they lose out on is the numbers and intersteller speed. It takes months for a Tau fleet to cross the Tau Empire. It takes weeks for the Covenant to do the same. Thats where they would win, becuase they would be beaten in land but that doesn't matter one iota if the covenant can control the gravity well. Once that happens its pretty much game over.

I'd say Covenant too. Tau are just too small of an empire. Their warp drives suck too.

Now how about Covenant versus ORKS????

Elites > Crisis Suits.

Plasma Swords > Everything.

Grunts > Drones.

And Covenant would win any day.

Grunts > Grots.

Brutes > Nobs.

Elites > Boyz.

Covenant 2 - 0 Other 'gaters.

sA

So I take it we are assuming that the Covies have ignored the fact that their systems were showing massive amounts of Forerunner artifacts being detected all over the Galaxy from the fact that there are countless humans, which register in there computers as Forerunner artifacts, then some how managed to get into Tau Space with out the Imperium attacking them?

I'd have to go with the Tau. A Manta could in all likely hood destroy a Covie Cruiser due to the fact that its armament is roughly the same as what the halcyon class cruisers were equipt with, minus the Nukes. The Halcyon Cruisers could take out a Covie Cruiser in tow to to action. Now the Tau have more Mantas than the UNSC had Halcyon cruisers which means that if they deployed two Mantas per every Cruiser, plus maybe AX-1-0 Tiger Shark support. Their size and maneuver ability would also make it quite easier to dodge Covie fire. So even with out Capital Ships, which I don't know what the Tau Capital Ships are armed with, I think the Tau could pull it of for a while in Space, until maybe the Covies won through attrition.

On the ground I think it would be another Tau victory as they seem to be equipt much better than the Covie ground forces. Though even the UNSC did better than the Covies alot of the time if I remember the books correctly.

smiling Assassin wrote:And Covenant would win any day.

Grunts > Grots.

Brutes > Nobs.

Elites > Boyz.

Hur hur hur. Let me fix dat fer yoo.

Boys > Grunts

Deff Dreads > Brutes (Actually, nobs are better than brutes anyway, I don't know what game you're playing...)

Warbosses > Elites

There are more than enough of those ork forces to match their covenant counterpart. That's what happens when you outnumber your enemy 10,000 to 1.

(I was sort of joking when I suggested the match up...)

On the ground I think it would be another Tau victory as they seem to be equipt much better than the Covie ground forces. Though even the UNSC did better than the Covies alot of the time if I remember the books correctly.

The halo fluff says that the human marines almost always beat the covenant in landside engagements. The problem was that the Covenant almost always won the battle for the gravity well. Once you controlt he gravity well and can strike from orbit without much fear of retaliation its basically pointless that you won the groundwar anyways.

This seems like a bit of a childish thread. Like something I asked my friend when we were 9.

WHO WOULD WIN IN A FIGHT SUPERMAN OR BATMAN BUT IF BATMAN'S PREPARED?

Wolverine obviously.

Orkeosaurus wrote:WHO WOULD WIN IN A FIGHT SUPERMAN OR BATMAN BUT IF BATMAN'S PREPARED?

Seeing as this already happened, Batman

Though I would have to say covenant re: the original question. Much bigger empire and manufacturing capacity, and the will to destroy planets. And nobody loses with five-kilometer-long capital ships.

Although I could do a full equipment, physiology and training comparison for ground combat, there is an easier way to get a good aproximation. The UNSC marine core does not posses any major advantages over the 40k Imperial Guard. If anything, the IG have better special weapons avaliable to them. Both groups also have elite super-solders, and any arguable superior quality of the Spartens is more then made up for by the superior quanitity of Space Marines. The Tau have a better then 50% success rate in engagments against the Imperium. The Convenent, however, have a relitivly low ground success rate against the UNSC. Therefore, I estimate that, although it would be no cakewalk, the Tau would get the upperhand on the ground.

In space is a far more interesting situation. When it comes to size of ships, the Tau actualy have the upper hand. Going by a sword frigate's 1km size, the tau's to main cruisers, the Hero & Protector classes, can be estimated at 3-5 km each. The Tau fleet carrior, the Castillian, as closer to a 10km wingspan. This will have the tendancy to make the Covenent ships look small by comparison. Also, unlike UNSC ships, the Tau have powerful energy shields defending their ships with extreamly high recharge rates. Both groups contain weapons that can rip an unshielded 1km ship to shreds (Conenent pulse laser, Tau Ion Cannon). However the target ships used for this comparison are UNSC's Titanium armor vs. the Imperium's Adimantium armor. The Tau also have an advantage of range, able to engage with guns at ~45,000km And bombers & torpedoes before that. Again, its not going to be a clean victory, but after a hard fight, I think the Tau will get the upperhand.

For the last issue, population & industrial capacity, there seems to be an underestimation of the Tau. The Tau don't have 13 planets, they have 13 major worlds (15 now), each with a population at least that of modern earth. In addition to that, they have near 100 minor worlds, and 20 Alien Homeworlds of member species. And while it is said that the Covenent covered a large portion of the Orion arm of the galexy, They seem to have a much lower population density, with the only major worlds being the species homeworlds.

Eather way, it seems the most likely result of a meeting of the two empires would be an attempted merger, as they both have very simmilar structures and ways about them. Even if they were offended by the hidding of their faces, I think the Elites would respect the Tau's capablities at war. The biggest problem comes from who would be incharge of such an alliance, which would depend much on the Prophet of Regret.. I mean Aun'va's abilities in coversation with the Hirarchs. Particuarly with the Etherial's (apparent) closeness to the Old Ones (Forerunners?) It is also possable, given the water-castes well known manipulative ability, that the Tau might be able to catalyse the Great Scisum, then incorperate the convenant races during and afterwords. After all, the Tau are first among equals and I'm sure would welcome the Elites to be parterners in combat.

Mars.Techpriest wrote:Although I could do a full equipment, physiology and training comparison for ground combat, there is an easier way to get a good aproximation. The UNSC marine core does not posses any major advantages over the 40k Imperial Guard. If anything, the IG have better special weapons avaliable to them. Both groups also have elite super-solders, and any arguable superior quality of the Spartens is more then made up for by the superior quanitity of Space Marines. The Tau have a better then 50% success rate in engagments against the Imperium. The Convenent, however, have a relitivly low ground success rate against the UNSC. Therefore, I estimate that, although it would be no cakewalk, the Tau would get the upperhand on the ground.

With the exceptions of Spartans, the Covenant walked through the UNSC in every major engagement. Easily. They never had a "hard time of it" in anything but the video games, which are not indicative of the actual war.

In space is a far more interesting situation. When it comes to size of ships, the Tau actualy have the upper hand. Going by a sword frigate's 1km size, the tau's to main cruisers, the Hero & Protector classes, can be estimated at 3-5 km each. The Tau fleet carrior, the Castillian, as closer to a 10km wingspan. This will have the tendancy to make the Covenent ships look small by comparison. Also, unlike UNSC ships, the Tau have powerful energy shields defending their ships with extreamly high recharge rates. Both groups contain weapons that can rip an unshielded 1km ship to shreds (Conenent pulse laser, Tau Ion Cannon). However the target ships used for this comparison are UNSC's Titanium armor vs. the Imperium's Adimantium armor. The Tau also have an advantage of range, able to engage with guns at ~45,000km And bombers & torpedoes before that. Again, its not going to be a clean victory, but after a hard fight, I think the Tau will get the upperhand.

Almost impossible to do a good comparison, because we have no sense of range of fire and scale. But I agree that the Tau by sheer size of their vessels would have the advatage.

For the last issue, population & industrial capacity, there seems to be an underestimation of the Tau. The Tau don't have 13 planets, they have 13 major worlds (15 now), each with a population at least that of modern earth. In addition to that, they have near 100 minor worlds, and 20 Alien Homeworlds of member species. And while it is said that the Covenent covered a large portion of the Orion arm of the galexy, They seem to have a much lower population density, with the only major worlds being the species homeworlds.

Even low population worlds means the Covenant have an exceptionally higher amount of resources at their disposal. They sacrificed THOUSANDS of Grunts in single engagements with the UNSC and stil had plenty more to keep throwing around.

In the end, I think the Covenant win. Personal shields are a massive advantage for the Elites, as is the active camoflague. Since ranges are almost impossible to compare, it is difficult to say who outranges who. Covenant tanks seem far more capable than most 40K tanks, so that would be a decisive factor. Also, the Tau really have no answer to a Scarab.


And for those comparing a UNSC Halcyon cruiser to the Covenant, remember the following: The only Halcyon we ever saw was the Pillar of Autmun, which was heavily modifed to a much higher capability. And it got worked over by the Covenant twice. It was not the most capable ship in the fleet, but one specifically set up for the Spartan missions. Most UNSC ships had almost NO chance against the COvenant, only with superior numbers and horrible casualties could they get any "victories" in space.

I don't think the sides would join, the Covenant are holy zealots. They might attempt to subjugate the Tau, but I don't see anything of a merger. Just doesn't fit with the Covenant view of the universe. The Tau could become subservient to the rest of the COvenant, but not an equal member. This assumes they don't just treat the Tau as abominations to their existence, like they saw humanity.

With the exceptions of Spartans, the Covenant walked through the UNSC in every major engagement. Easily. They never had a "hard time of it" in anything but the video games, which are not indicative of the actual war.

While I don't have the maunal here with me to check, according to Halopidia "For fifteen years, the war continued in much the same way as before; minor, costly victories on the ground for UNSC forces, but total Covenant space superiority. " In any case, I was intentionaly including the spartians in the comparison, as the Imperial forces have their own super-solders who are of comparable quality, and greater number.

Even low population worlds means the Covenant have an exceptionally higher amount of resources at their disposal. They sacrificed THOUSANDS of Grunts in single engagements with the UNSC and stil had plenty more to keep throwing around.

In the end, I think the Covenant win. Personal shields are a massive advantage for the Elites, as is the active camoflague. Since ranges are almost impossible to compare, it is difficult to say who outranges who. Covenant tanks seem far more capable than most 40K tanks, so that would be a decisive factor. Also, the Tau really have no answer to a Scarab.

Resorces are no good if they cannot be put to use. During the Human-Covenant war, the covenant deployed all avaliable resorces to attacking the humans, every ship and solder they could without leaving Covenant space defencless. So in Halo, we see the full extent of the Covenant millitary, and the resorces they can bring to bare.

To remind you, the Tau also have personal level shields, as well as active camoflague. The Tau even have active camo aircraft (Rimora) and area blanket systems (Mirage system). And while exact ranges arn't know, it seems clear that the Covenant main line weaponry (Plasma Pistol, needler, plasma rifle) has a shorter effective range then the battle rifle (Not dissimilar to modern firearm), Tau pulse rifles, however, have 25% more range then modern rifles.

And the Tau do have an answer to the Scarab. Indeed they created a weapon specifily for war vehicals like the Scarab, it's called the Tigershark X-2, which fields two massive railguns. It's shown to destroy a Warhound Titan with a single slug (from each). Add that the scarab doesn't have shielding like Imperial Titans, and it become rather vulerable. As for something along the same size, the Tau Manta, with its 300ft wingspan and 50+ person & 4 Tank capcity is more then on scale with the Scarab, and mounts 2 Ion batteries in additionto the railguns mentioned above.

Its important to note that the main reason for going to war with the Humans was to cover up their connection to the forrunners. The humans, as desendents of the Forrunners, proved the Great Journey false, and would have desolved the covenant. The Hirachs attempted to cover this up by genoside. If we translated the same to that Tau, then there would undoubtably be a war. But without it, they would be unlikely to persue that costly of a war, at least not for an extensive length of time.

With the exceptions of Spartans, the Covenant walked through the UNSC in every major engagement. Easily. They never had a "hard time of it" in anything but the video games, which are not indicative of the actual war.

In the books it stated that the UNSC generally won the ground campaign as long as the covenant fleet was not present in strength.

Also, the Tau really have no answer to a Scarab.

The manta would absolutely destroy the Scarab.

Its important to note that the main reason for going to war with the Humans was to cover up their connection to the forrunners. The humans, as desendents of the Forrunners, proved the Great Journey false, and would have desolved the covenant. The Hirachs attempted to cover this up by genoside. If we translated the same to that Tau, then there would undoubtably be a war. But without it, they would be unlikely to persue that costly of a war, at least not for an extensive length of time.

It would be good to point out that when the Tau realised there was a larger empire surrounding their space the Fire Warriors immediately sought permission to embark on a war of subsumation against the Empire that was dissallowed by the Ethereals. I think that if directly attacked they would fight back and if they would not submit to Ethereal authority they would try and make them.