Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Can Asurmen use defend if he is leading a squad aren't Dire Avengers? Conversely, can he lead the squad in a bladestorm? For example, if he was leading guardians, can they benefit from Defend and Bladestorm? Both powers merely refer to the "Exarch's" unit, not to Dire Avengers specifically. Also, Asurmen is technically not an "Exarch", so if you want to get super technical I guess, his Exarch Powers do nothing!

Discuss!

No Phoenix Lord can join an aspect squad that is not of their aspect, so no, Asurmen can't lead a guardan squad - or make them bladestorm (PS rules C:E, p54).
Exarch skills can only benefit their squads (of aspect warriors).

I'm going to have to go the other way on this one. The rules state that a phoenix Lord cannot join an ASPECT WARRIOR squad that is not of his own. So I think guardians, wraithguard, rangers, and harlis, not be aspect warriors, could be joined. What a nasty idea. Ewwwwwww...

Gobstomp420 wrote:I'm going to have to go the other way on this one. The rules state that a phoenix Lord cannot join an ASPECT WARRIOR squad that is not of his own. So I think guardians, wraithguard, rangers, and harlis, not be aspect warriors, could be joined. What a nasty idea. Ewwwwwww...

Lets not forget to expand that idea to they can join every thing other than their own Aspect warriors. ( parody on can guards use orders on enemy phase )

Unfortunately, the descriptions of the exarch powers specifically mention the relevent aspects in their wording: 'The Exarch and his/her squad'.

Boo sucks :(

How could you get a phonix lord and not put them in thier aspect squad? That's just...CRUEL!

That's like...I don't know! Something mean and unnatural.

The FAQ clarifies that the exarch powers only work for aspect squads. However, the Phoenix Lord is free to join any non-aspect squads... and I don't see much wrong with it really.

I add Maugan Ra to a unit of pathfinders all the time.

Well, yeah but-but...(sob)

Anyway, with an assualt executioner Maugun Ra is more of a grim, stand alone character.

Yeah, generally he just starts with some pathfinders, togive them a little more durability, then he splits off on his own to take out tanks.

Maugan Ra is an absolute gun when you walk him up the field shooting everything to death and then charging peple with S5 power weapon and WS7

Squig_herder wrote:Maugan Ra is an absolute gun when you walk him up the field shooting everything to death and then charging peple with S5 power weapon and WS7

It's a str 6 power weapon His greatest weakness is the lack of an invulnerable save. Guess what happens when he gets into a fight with a SM captain with storm shield and relic blade?

Thats is abit of a killer, i would have thought that they all would atleast recieve a 6++ save but maybe next time round?

They are still a super force, everytime I use one, they perform above everyone else (as they bloody should) and i will continue to use them on and off (more on though) in both friendlies and torni environments

My Eldar opponent bring Maugan every game he plays, and he DOES not use him to his potential at all. He's normally dead by turn two.

Tactics for keeping PLs alive then? Other than running them with a squad?

Tek wrote:My Eldar opponent bring Maugan every game he plays, and he DOES not use him to his potential at all. He's normally dead by turn two.

Tactics for keeping PLs alive then? Other than running them with a squad?

Aside from starting him with pathfinders, I will often run him by himself, in or out of cover, and just sort of use him as a sacrifice. The trick is to maximize the amount of effort your opponent has to spend in order to kill him, because this helps to keep the rest of your army alive.

Start in a serpent and then jump out and go from CC to cover and back to CC

So to bring this back on topic;

The Exarch powers say "The Exarch and his squad." Well, if A Phoenix lord is joined to a unit of Guardians, are the guardians not "His squad?".

Generally, I was thinking of attaching Asurmen to a Seer Council, and then I was wondering if his Defend power would work for the entire unit. So far, RAW seems to indicate that it does, since the the entry only refers to "His unit", which for an independent character is any unit he joins.

However, the powers also say "The Exarch", and a Phoenix Lord is not an exarch, so would somebody claim that their powers don't work at all?

whitedragon wrote:So to bring this back on topic;

The Exarch powers say "The Exarch and his squad." Well, if A Phoenix lord is joined to a unit of Guardians, are the guardians not "His squad?".

READ THE THREAD BEFORE POSTING. This was already addressed by wilydstyle:

willydstyle wrote:The FAQ clarifies that the exarch powers only work for aspect squads. However, the Phoenix Lord is free to join any non-aspect squads.

Gwar! wrote:

whitedragon wrote:So to bring this back on topic;

The Exarch powers say "The Exarch and his squad." Well, if A Phoenix lord is joined to a unit of Guardians, are the guardians not "His squad?".

READ THE THREAD BEFORE POSTING. This was already addressed by wilydstyle:

willydstyle wrote:The FAQ clarifies that the exarch powers only work for aspect squads. However, the Phoenix Lord is free to join any non-aspect squads.

Uhm...excuse me for skimming? Take a forum chill pill? Thanks for the FAQ reference willyd.

yea... i kinda agree that that was uncalled for gwar... you need to stop arguing with people in other threads... you're getting stressed out!

we like a non-stressed gwar!

Gobstomp420 wrote:I'm going to have to go the other way on this one. The rules state that a phoenix Lord cannot join an ASPECT WARRIOR squad that is not of his own. So I think guardians, wraithguard, rangers, and harlis, not be aspect warriors, could be joined. What a nasty idea. Ewwwwwww...

Join yes... buff them with their powers, no. So if the PL has powers that only work on themselves, like Maugan Ra, then no worries. No Bladestorming Guardian squad, although they can bask in Asurman's glory.

Homer

their exarch powers work on their relevant aspects, but no other squads, although it would help if they would

Nearly right but acute vision and stealth is pasted on.

Maugan Ra with your snipers at the start of game with night fighting game.

or

Karandras with any warlock and conceal. (yay 4+ cover save)

Tri wrote:Nearly right but acute vision and stealth is pasted on.

Maugan Ra with your snipers at the start of game with night fighting game.

or

Karandras with any warlock and conceal. (yay 4+ cover save)

I believe the codex says that karandras passes his stealth rule on to specifically, "any unit of striking scorpions he joins", which means even though his own cover save in the seer squad would be improved to four, you have to use the majority save, which would be the rest of the squads' 5.

Doesn't matter he use the universal Stealth rule which effects any unit he's part of. "This ability is conferred to any unit of Striking Scorpions Karandras joins" is missing the Key word "only" You can argue RAI all day but they've nether errata or FAQ it to only work on Scorpions.

Also you have to use the majority Toughness not Save. Each model make the best save available to them. Normally all models in the unit have the same cover save because the unit as a whole must be in cover, but the addition of wargear allows the individual a cover save different to the rest of the squad.

For example a Big Mek with a Kustom force field would give the unit he's with (and any unit with a model within 6") a 5+ cover save, but A Warboss on a bike within said unit would also benefit from the "Exhaust Cloud" rule giving him a 4+ cover save.

(edit for wargear)

My bad, youre right about the individual saves thing.

I guess that misinterpretation isnt going to help my credibility as far as the first part regarding the rules in the codex, but it was my understanding that if the rules dont say you CAN, then it means you CANT... after all, whats the purpose of specifying "any unit of striking scorpions he joins," if what they meant was "any unit he joins" ? The former is RAW, the latter is RAI

Rai he can only pass Stealth USR to Scorpions

Raw theres nothing switching off the Stealth USR ability to effect any unit he joins.

What is need is the word "only". If it said "This ability is only conferred to any unit of Striking Scorpions Karandras joins" Then Rai would equal Raw.

As it stands theres nothing stoping the Stealth USR which reads ...
"The ability to make maximum use of available cover has saved many a warrior from discovery and death. All of the unit's cover saves are improved by +1"
So RAW he joins a unit it has +1 to all cover saves ...

Well the problem with using the description in the rulebook as it pertains to the ability, instead of the description in the codex as it pertains to how he utilizes said rule, is that you start to end up with some weird rules if you apply that to other things.

I see where you are coming from, as the rulebook says that his "unit's cover saves are improved by +1"

but he also has the FLEET USR, and if you use the rulebook's description for that USR also you end up with "A unit with this rule
may assault in the same turn in which it has run." implying that because karandras has fleet, and because hes in the unit, the unit has fleet. that would give you fleet wraithguard.

Also, regarding the lack of the word "only," by that logic, karandras should be able to make a squad of guardians he leads fearless. The disciples rule states that "if the pheonix lord is leading a squad of their aspect, then the whole squad becomes fearless." - Note that it doesnt say "only" his aspect. Should those guardians be fearless?

"a squad of his aspect" excludes every unit but striking scorpions.

"any unit of striking scorpions" excludes every unit but striking scorpions.

Lets start with fearless. "... However, as long as a fearless character stays with a unit that is not fearless, he loses this special rule ..." So that's that one out the way.

Fleet has the * so is lost by IC that join a unit that doesn't also have the special rule.

As you can see these are covered which is why i didn't list them.

Now back to Karandras's Stealth. Stealth effect every one in the unit and gives them +1 to their cover save. The End. "This ability is conferred to any unit of striking scorpions Karandras joins" and by default it is already conferred to any unit he's joined. RAI he should only be able to use Stealth with striking scorpions but RAW he uses it with every one because they for got to say it only works with striking scorpions.

Tri has it right. The statement that it Works with Scorps is redundant as RaW it works with anyone.

Alright.