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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/28 21:50:02
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Executing Exarch
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http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.cb687fb425ea2bc9d53a15c7e635a94f.3c1&show_article=1
Now I will openly admit upfront that I am a committed Christian. That being said, I have to wonder why people have to go out of their way to bash other people's faiths. Some would say the Christian evangelism is indeed a form of bashing someone's faith, but a Christian who evangelizes properly is not trying to mock other beliefs or exhibit arrogance, rather we are trying to spread what we believe to be a greater Truth to all men and women of this planet.
With that out of the way I have to ask this question: why is blatant obscenity and disrespect largely tolerated by the community? There is a difference between government allowing freedom and the community tolerating something. A community has the right to decide what is acceptable behavior without using law enforcement or the like to police those standards. So why do we tolerate the obvious hatred and disrespect for a faith that touches billions of people the world over? I saddens me deeply to see such anger and hatred over something so wonderfully beautiful. Despite what you say this is not art, this is discrimination displayed and trumpeted on a public scale. Do the rights we believe in so dearly mean freedom of religion as we claim, or rather have we twisted it into freedom from religion? I respect people's beliefs, but angry, disrespectful atheism is just as bad as militant Christians, fundamentalist Muslims or any other extreme. Please, I would love to hear your thoughts, but I ask this: Do not try to debate the merits of religion or try and point out past abuses, such arguments will lead to nowhere and are ineffective on this type of medium. Rather focus on the issue at hand and ask post well thought out ideas over how you feel about this display.
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DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+
How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/28 21:56:18
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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[MOD]
Anti-piracy Officer
Somewhere in south-central England.
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Because they are rude and inconsiderate.
This is why Dr Richard Dawkins is a bit of an embarrasment to some atheists. He goes too far at times.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/28 22:00:16
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Longtime Dakkanaut
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dear lord another religion thread.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/28 22:05:38
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Steady Space Marine Vet Sergeant
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please lets just lock this. it will turn into hell befor we know it. even without gwar here.
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-to many points to bother to count.
mattyrm wrote:i like the idea of a woman with a lobster claw for a hand touching my nuts. :-) |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/28 22:23:51
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
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JEB_Stuart wrote:There is a difference between government allowing freedom and the community tolerating something. A community has the right to decide what is acceptable behavior without using law enforcement or the like to police those standards.
I think this is an important distinction.
I fully agree with you on this matter, JEB. Christians (especially Catholics) get bashed with less criticism of the offender than members of any other religion I know of. Atheists often get bashed, but people are much quicker to label the people bashing them intolerant than they are of the people who hate Christianity. Muslims as well, are defended (often with allegations of racism and xenophobia) by people who much of the time levy equally unfair accusations against Christianity. Buddhists and the like are generally left alone. Jews aren't hated by anyone who's not some sort of neo-Nazi. People bashing Wicca and Scientology are usually justified ( lol).
I'll admit my view on this may be colored by own experiences; I would hazard to guess there are other places in the United States where the reverse is still true. However, I think the fact that one is tolerated by supposed "intellectuals" more than the other is still telling.
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Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/28 22:52:48
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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[SWAP SHOP MOD]
Killer Klaivex
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To be honest, I bet there were more crudely drawn penii in the margins than anything else, knowing the juvenile humour of the great unwashed masses.
Juvenile humour isn't necessarily unfunny though.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/28 23:00:57
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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Oh those poor Christians, so put upon, so held down. Someday maybe they will pull themselves together and make something of themselves but for now they will have to get along with being the majority, making 90%+ of all elected offices, putting their god on money and in the Pledge of Allegiance, and having the most recent (1000 years) world empires. Yeah, those guys are so put upon. I mean somebody said something nasty about them! Can you believe it? I don't know how they deal with it. Poor guys are off in the corner crying again about how rough it is. I think I'll get them a tissue.
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/28 23:01:37
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Battlewagon Driver with Charged Engine
Murfreesboro, TN
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JEB_Stuart wrote:or try and point out past abuses
So, we can't point out why people might feel this way about Christianity? Wow, that makes for an utterly ineffectual and blinkered discussion. Society isn't a courtroom; prior bad acts ARE admissable.
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As a rule of thumb, the designers do not hide "easter eggs" in the rules. If clever reading is required to unlock some sort of hidden option, then it is most likely the result of wishful thinking.
But there's no sense crying over every mistake;
You just keep on trying till you run out of cake.
Member of the "No Retreat for Calgar" Club |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/28 23:12:29
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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lord_sutekh wrote:JEB_Stuart wrote:or try and point out past abuses
So, we can't point out why people might feel this way about Christianity? Wow, that makes for an utterly ineffectual and blinkered discussion. Society isn't a courtroom; prior bad acts ARE admissable.
But that might hurt their feelings Lord, and they are far to sensitive a lady to do that. I mean, they don't even want to remember their own history because it can cause a tear to well up in the corner of their eye and cheeks get rosy and flush. Sort of like the sex laws into the mid 60's such as Washington DC's that said that the Missionary Position (and not in Guatemala) was the only legal way to have sex, period. Or that adultery could land you in jail. These laws weren't passed by Jews, atheists or Buddhists wanting to control people and making sec procreation only. Of course we could also talk about the wiping out of the Native Americans in the Western Hemisphere and forced conversions of the survivors as well as Slaves. Of course understanding why some people might not be so keen on world dominators (as was the prevalent attitude for a long time) can be difficult when your only exposure to the world is through one view. While more (somewhat) diverse now, there is a reason the CIA got the nickname Christians In Action.
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Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/28 23:42:24
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
About to eat your Avatar...
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Would someone take offense to ritual burning of a Bible?
What if someone copied the bible word for word into their own binding and used paper they had made from scratch... then burned ritually?
I see this WHOLE topic as a two edged sword that only a freaking martyr would land on, so give me a break...
Seriously though I thought the whole idea behind religion is that you learned the teachings and it had nothing to do with nothing besides the teachings... now it doesn't, along with all the other flip-flops that specific religion has pulled... martyr to say the least.
"Note"
This thread should be locked because Jesus did NOT die for my sins, he died for someone else mate. Thousands of years ago nonetheless, and if I am not mistaken Jesus invented hell... or something along those lines, like he convinced his dad to be more wrathful and killy like.
Bunnies are nice too, and so are flowers, they also die all the time, and they also have a lot to teach us.
So don't write on my bunnies man.
"Note"
If the Bible in question were some sort of relic, or perhaps even a family heirloom I would take some amount of offense to it, but they never even specified what they meant anyway, so they were plonked from the get go.
So the saying goes don't put your balls on the chopping block when a Mother-in-law is around, or prepare to be proven of flesh and blood like any other dumbass with his balls on the chopping block.
Come to think of it that HAS to be in the Bible somewhere, it just HAS to!!!
How I really feel though...
EPIC!
"Welcome G-man said God unto the big G..."
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This message was edited 8 times. Last update was at 2009/07/29 00:05:32
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 00:16:46
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Decrepit Dakkanaut
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The problem is that too many people who believe in various magical, invisible men don't have the good sense to keep it to themselves.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 00:17:30
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
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Ketara wrote:To be honest, I bet there were more crudely drawn penii in the margins than anything else, knowing the juvenile humour of the great unwashed masses.
Juvenile humour isn't necessarily unfunny though. 
I thought "Mick Jagger and David Bowie belong in here" was fairly amusing.
Also, neither my Google Spellchecker nor Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary accept "penii" as a plural of "penis".
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Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 00:35:54
Subject: Re:Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Nasty Nob on Warbike with Klaw
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I feel that it is unfortunate that some people feel the need to play the victim because they are confronted with opinions that they don't like. Some Atheists seem so strident because we have to deal with people "evangelizing" at our front doors early in the morning, leaving flyers and other crap, and constantly barging in on conversations where they are obviously not wanted with their bible quotes. Believe whatever you want, but don't think for a second that you have the right to impose it on others.
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WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!! |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 00:48:11
Subject: Re:Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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[DCM]
The Main Man
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warpcrafter wrote:I feel that it is unfortunate that some people feel the need to play the victim because they are confronted with opinions that they don't like. Some Atheists seem so strident because we have to deal with people "evangelizing" at our front doors early in the morning, leaving flyers and other crap, and constantly barging in on conversations where they are obviously not wanted with their bible quotes. Believe whatever you want, but don't think for a second that you have the right to impose it on others.
This goes both ways though. Talking about your beliefs, or telling someone about your beliefs, even to the point of "evangelizing" is in no way "imposing" your beliefs on others. People can evangelize all they want, and everyone else can ignore them all they want, or argue. Evangelizing is not the same thing as imposing your beliefs on others. In the U.S. at least, no one can force you to believe anything.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 03:29:37
Subject: Re:Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Executing Exarch
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I am upset that all of you who leave negative comments about Christianity have ignored the basic point of this post. So I will reiterate this as a basic, easy to understand question: Should we in the Western World, who consider ourselves to be civilized, tolerant people, allow this blatant disrespect and hatred to continue as a society? Please stick to the issue at hand, these childish, vitriolic attacks are petty and frankly worthless. There are plenty of good arguments for atheism, deism, other religions and the like, but quite honestly none of them have been put forward, and this is not the thread to do it on. If you can't resist yourselves, here is some advice, go read some Nietzsche, think about his ideas, and them post them on another thread. Please just answer my question in a reasonable, logical and well thought out response.
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DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+
How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 03:43:02
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
About to eat your Avatar...
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I have already said my piece, and I feel like this is actually a debate about religion, and that is bound to end badly on here.
However you see my statement I feel that valid points are made though comedy, and I try quite hard to keep my posts appropriate.
If you have a problem with that, then oh well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if I am from the planet Xenon76-A-b589, it doesn't matter.
Orkeos wrote:Buddhists and the like are generally left alone
I wonder why?
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/29 03:48:06
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 03:43:58
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Executing Exarch
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Ahtman wrote:Oh those poor Christians, so put upon, so held down. Someday maybe they will pull themselves together and make something of themselves but for now they will have to get along with being the majority, making 90%+ of all elected offices, putting their god on money and in the Pledge of Allegiance, and having the most recent (1000 years) world empires. Yeah, those guys are so put upon. I mean somebody said something nasty about them! Can you believe it? I don't know how they deal with it. Poor guys are off in the corner crying again about how rough it is. I think I'll get them a tissue.
Your grasp of history is appallingly ignorant. If you knew just how wrong and ill-informed you sound you might not post anything. These so called "Christian" empires are not even close to what you think. There were far more powerful and extensive Muslim and Chinese Empires. These empire you refer to must mean the Spanish, Portuguese and British Empires which did in fact dominate the world for some time, but then again we have to examine the Soviet Union, the Third Reich, and the Italian Empires as further foils to your claim, since all three were avowedly atheist. This doesn't even bring into consideration the Japanese Empire and the emerging Communist Chinese Empire. The point of this post was a question about the tolerance that our society claims, please keep your faux-history to yourself. Automatically Appended Next Post: Wrexasaur wrote:I have already said my piece, and I feel like this is actually a debate about religion, and that is bound to end badly on here.
However you see my statement I feel that valid points are made though comedy, and I try quite hard to keep my posts appropriate.
If you have a problem with that, then oh well, everyone is entitled to their opinion, even if I am from the planet Xenon76-A-b589, it doesn't matter.
I am not directing my frustration against one person, and I am sorry if that is the way I came across. This is not a debate about religion, this is about tolerance, and how society should adhere to it. Even though I didn't agree with your comments, I did in fact find them to be quite humorous. Could you please clarify your thoughts on tolerance across the board for everyone? That is the basic point of my thought. Automatically Appended Next Post: lord_sutekh wrote:
So, we can't point out why people might feel this way about Christianity? Wow, that makes for an utterly ineffectual and blinkered discussion. Society isn't a courtroom; prior bad acts ARE admissable.
The reason I asked for that is because then this whole thread would digress from its real purpose, and turn into some kind of tit for tat argument that is utterly void of benefit for any of us. I would greatly value your opinion on the issue of tolerance for all across the board if you would be so kind as to share it. Automatically Appended Next Post: Hordini wrote:warpcrafter wrote:I feel that it is unfortunate that some people feel the need to play the victim because they are confronted with opinions that they don't like. Some Atheists seem so strident because we have to deal with people "evangelizing" at our front doors early in the morning, leaving flyers and other crap, and constantly barging in on conversations where they are obviously not wanted with their bible quotes. Believe whatever you want, but don't think for a second that you have the right to impose it on others.
This goes both ways though. Talking about your beliefs, or telling someone about your beliefs, even to the point of "evangelizing" is in no way "imposing" your beliefs on others. People can evangelize all they want, and everyone else can ignore them all they want, or argue. Evangelizing is not the same thing as imposing your beliefs on others. In the U.S. at least, no one can force you to believe anything.
Thank you for the post, but what do you think that we as a society should do? Should we allow this type of intolerance and disrespect to go on, or should something be done at a community level? And if we should allow it go on, how tolerant are we?
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This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2009/07/29 03:51:25
DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+
How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 03:57:22
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
(THIS SPACE INTENTIONALLY LEFT BLANK)
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ITT: the majority religion in america cries about how it's persecuted and hated by unjust fearmongers, all the while stamping out scientific and human rights legislation. People like richard dawkins will go away when people like those in the westboro baptist church go away. No one is trying to crush your faith, no one is trying to be mean to you. Buck up and stop crying when your pinky is hurt.
ITT: persecution complexes.
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-- -- -- -- -- -- -- --
Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 03:57:27
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
About to eat your Avatar...
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JEB_Stuart wrote:I am not directing my frustration against one person, and I am sorry if that is the way I came across. This is not a debate about religion, this is about tolerance, and how society should adhere to it. Even though I didn't agree with your comments, I did in fact find them to be quite humorous. Could you please clarify your thoughts on tolerance across the board for everyone? That is the basic point of my thought.
If I were boil down religions to their core values, they would be very much the same, and this is true of people as well.
Christianity ALSO (just so we are totally clear on this) has been one of the most culturally aggressive Religions I know of.
So let's call Christianity at large Ted.
Ted likes to say how he feels, and he also like to give people advice.
Ted is a pretty good guy, and he is generally very practical and sometimes even very generous.
One day Ted decides to go save some people, why he does we really can't understand, that is for Ted to understand.
So Ted walks up to a group of hot dog stands, and starts to point out all the stuff that is bad about them with a laser pointer.
When the vendors get angry and tell him to piss off, Ted decides to take 5 steps back, and continue to to point out stuff again.
After a few shouting matches (all of the shouting is from the vendors, so Ted cannot be responsible, at least that is how he feels). Ted seems to lack the ability to understand that these guys just want to run their stands, and enjoy their crappy ass lives.
Ted ends up creating a building across from the vendors and keeps on using his laser pointer to point out stuff. Only now he has a funny hat and a mega-phone.
Okay.... now we understand how Ted got to be in a building, and he actually decides to gather a bunch of people he knows and he creates more of this buildings and hands out MORE laser pointers and microphones.
So one day the vendors see that Ted is having a a party where everyone gets to talk about Ted, ain't it grand. They decide to go into the building with a bottle of invisible ink, and pour it all over everyone, just so they can get a quick kick for all the hassle Ted has caused them.
GO VENDORS!!!
Having to explain why I feel this way is pointless, I think the proof is in the proverbial pudding on this one.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/29 03:58:47
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 04:15:46
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
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Im an Atheist i dont agree with Christianty or any other religion. Im 14 at one point an ex-pupil came into my school and started telling all my friends there going to hell, i told him im an Atheist and can he stop it as he was scaring some people, he wouldnt.
He had a complete disguard for my and my friends beliefs.
He had a complete disrespect for other religions.
He's main tactic for converting people was to scare them.
This saturday i walked into a church in swansea (They sell realy good tea) Its full of OLD people.
Ive seen so many religious old people why? Because there scared of dying and want to think there going to live forever in paradise, its a rather pathetic tactic, as they covert there younge granchildren and further the taint of religion spreads.
IMO From what ive seen Christians have a complete disreguard of other people's opinions/beliefs and basicaly use the scare tactic to convert people.
Im pretty sure in the middle ages the church was dominant. Farmers/ peasants had to give the Church some of there money/bread/cheese/milk or there go to hell. The same tactic is used today but in a more modernised form.
That realy sums it up, hope you understand.
PS When you called Christianty something amazing etc. I achualy face palmed.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 04:18:02
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Hangin' with Gork & Mork
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JEB_Stuart wrote:Ahtman wrote:Oh those poor Christians, so put upon, so held down. Someday maybe they will pull themselves together and make something of themselves but for now they will have to get along with being the majority, making 90%+ of all elected offices, putting their god on money and in the Pledge of Allegiance, and having the most recent (1000 years) world empires. Yeah, those guys are so put upon. I mean somebody said something nasty about them! Can you believe it? I don't know how they deal with it. Poor guys are off in the corner crying again about how rough it is. I think I'll get them a tissue.
Your grasp of history is appallingly ignorant. If you knew just how wrong and ill-informed you sound you might not post anything. These so called "Christian" empires are not even close to what you think. There were far more powerful and extensive Muslim and Chinese Empires. These empire you refer to must mean the Spanish, Portuguese and British Empires which did in fact dominate the world for some time, but then again we have to examine the Soviet Union, the Third Reich, and the Italian Empires as further foils to your claim, since all three were avowedly atheist. This doesn't even bring into consideration the Japanese Empire and the emerging Communist Chinese Empire. The point of this post was a question about the tolerance that our society claims, please keep your faux-history to yourself.
Uhm, we were talking about the West yes? In your own posts you talk about the "Western Civilized" world. So of course I'm not talking about China or the Middle East. As to my faux-history, if you could point out any part that is blatantly false please do so. If not please refrain from ad hominem attacks. Just because you don't understand what I am pointing out, which you obliviously don't, doesn't mean you need to act out so aggressively.
Let us go over them again because maybe you have trouble reading and/or maybe you have trouble processing information. See, anyone can use ad hominem!
1. Is Christianity the Majority religion in the US? Yes. Is that an insult or an observation? Observation.
2. Are the large majority of elected (and general public) offices held by Christians? Yes. Is that an insult or an observation? Observation.
3. Was "In God We Trust" added to he dollar bill or Pledge of Allegiance by the request of Jews, Buddhist, Muslims or Athiests? No. Is that an insult or an observation? Observation.
4. In the last 1000 years was Christianity the religion of the nations that built empires in the West. Yes. Is that an insult or an observation? Observation.
Complaining that someone said something bad about you is like a rich person complaining about about someone with food stamps getting free food. You have it all and you are whining. You made all the money, you exploited all the minorities. You built the modern western Nation State and control it's political systems. Maybe it would be more accurate, or perhaps a corollary, to say you are like the guy who can get 99/100 gifts but only remembers the 1 you didn't get instead of the 99 you did. I'm glad the majority of Christiandom isn't as whiny, I just wish you would join them in realizing that sometimes people say offensive things regardless of religion. You don't think other religions have been offended before? You don't think Christianity's arrogance and assumed superiority hasn't offended others? Do you think they cared they were offending people?
Your myopic vision and lack of knowledge offends me but I'm not blaming "the Downfall of Western Civilization" just because of it. I'm also not going to blame or generalize all of Dakka or all Christians for your profound lack of insight or critical reasoning. Like a reasonable person I'm just going to blame you. Most Christians are decent people.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/29 04:22:02
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 04:18:28
Subject: Re:Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
About to eat your Avatar...
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Xav wrote:He's main tactic for converting people was to scare them.
This tactic is antiquated at best, dragons and faeries just don't cut it after nearly seeing the world go up in a nuclear holocaust.
For kids, I can only say I would be gravely offended if I saw someone trying to scare a child into believing religion.
"Note"
For the record I am Agnostic, other than that I am usually saying "OOoooohhh... look at that!".
I like religious art a whole lot more than I like religion, that is 100% positively super nova.
The sheer epic nature of Greek Orthodox art really intrigues me.
This place is amazing and if you ever get the chance check it out when you are in the bay area.
http://www.groca.org/
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This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/07/29 04:25:48
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 04:21:32
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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and further the taint of religion spreads.
And thus the other side proves why this just goes in circles.
He had a complete disguard for my and my friends beliefs.
He had a complete disrespect for other religions.
He's main tactic for converting people was to scare them.
And your main tactic is to insult. Not much better. Not much more adult.
PS When you called Christianty something amazing etc. I achualy face palmed.
I didn't actually facepalm when you misspelled actually. No one actually hits themselves in the face. But god damn did I want too. The irony is ironic in a way that is ironically full of iron shod irony cast in iron.
Ironic.
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
This is a bad thread and you should all feel bad |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 04:25:26
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Killer Klaivex
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Xav: That is quite possibly the most ill-thought-out, downright stupid thing I've ever read on Dakka. 1. The guy in question was obviously dicking around, and clearly isn't a good Christian. *I* am Christian, but I don't think atheists are going to hell. 2. There are a lot of religious senior citizens because Christianity was much more prevalent in household life sixty or so years ago. I imagine a lot of people's parents grew up religious. My mother did, even though she's atheist now. 3. Prove that heaven doesn't exist. Then prove that it does. Frankly, I don't mind whether it does or not, because if I'm wrong, then I won't be conscious to know about it. 4. Yes, the Church was dominant in the middle ages, because science wasn't very wide-spread in those days in the western world. 5. Most religious people I know, myself included, agree that everyone has a right to their beliefs, and the other religions might be right. What you've encountered is apparently an evangelist or some such, someone who's utterly convinced that Christianity is the only way to freedom, blah blah blah.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/29 04:25:58
People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 04:30:14
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Thunderhawk Pilot Dropping From Orbit
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He had a complete disguard for my and my friends beliefs.
He had a complete disrespect for other religions.
He's main tactic for converting people was to scare them.
How is this an insult?
I was describing what the majority of Christians i meet are like, most of them ignore what i say and go on with there own rant about God and Jesus (This isnt intended to insult Christians)
But you cant help but make an assumption on a certain faction after meeting so many rude, idiotic ones.
Another thing i dont understand, why do you come round my house at 8am giving me a leaflet about God?
I thinks its pretty pathetic, i understand you wanna spread your message but if i wanna talk and learn about God il go to the Church. (No intended as an insult)
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 04:33:51
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Killer Klaivex
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What kind of Christians do you have there? Evangelists? An extremist cult?
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People are like dice, a certain Frenchman said that. You throw yourself in the direction of your own choosing. People are free because they can do that. Everyone's circumstances are different, but no matter how small the choice, at the very least, you can throw yourself. It's not chance or fate. It's the choice you made. |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 04:36:09
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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!!Goffik Rocker!!
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How is this an insult? Saying the "Taint" of religion is insulting. Saying you faceplam when someone says their religious beliefs are somehow special is insulting. Misspelling your posts, ignoring grammar, and then acting more intelligent is insulting. I was describing what the majority of Christians i meet are like, most of them ignore what i say and go on with there own rant about God and Jesus (This isnt intended to insult Christians)
So do most 14 year olds I know. But you cant help but make an assumption on a certain faction after meeting so many rude, idiotic ones.
Actually you can. It's called being an adult. You'll get there someday. Another thing i dont understand, why do you come round my house at 8am giving me a leaflet about God?
In all my years I've never had one show up at 8AM. I thinks its pretty pathetic, i understand you wanna spread your message but if i wanna talk and learn about God il go to the Church. (No intended as an insult)
And when I want to hear some kids persecution complex whinefest I'll go to your house. You and the OP are two sides of the same coin. You talk about tolerance and practice little of it. You preach tolerance then whine when such a small overture as a leaflet or website is placed where you can view it. Again, ITT: Persecution complexes
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/29 04:38:47
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Do you remember that time that thing happened?
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 04:37:19
Subject: Re:Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Moustache-twirling Princeps
About to eat your Avatar...
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Cheese Elemental wrote:What kind of Christians do you have there? Evangelists? An extremist cult?
You don't even want to know man...
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/07/29 04:37:43
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 04:42:14
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Executing Exarch
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Ahtman wrote:
Uhm, we were talking about the West yes? In your own posts you talk about the "Western Civilized" world. So of course I'm not talking about China or the Middle East. As to my faux-history, if you could point out any part that is blatantly false please do so. If not please refrain from ad hominem attacks. Just because you don't understand what I am pointing out, which you obliviously don't, doesn't mean you need to act out so aggressively.
Let us go over them again because maybe you have trouble reading and/or maybe you have trouble processing information. See, anyone can use ad hominem!
1. Is Christianity the Majority religion in the US? Yes. Is that an insult or an observation? Observation.
2. Are the large majority of elected (and general public) offices held by Christians? Yes. Is that an insult or an observation? Observation.
3. Was "In God We Trust" added to he dollar bill or Pledge of Allegiance by the request of Jews, Buddhist, Muslims or Athiests? No. Is that an insult or an observation? Observation.
4. In the last 1000 years was Christianity the religion of the nations that built empires in the West. Yes. Is that an insult or an observation? Observation.
Complaining that someone said something bad about you is like a rich person complaining about about someone with food stamps getting free food. You have it all and you are whining. You made all the money, you exploited all the minorities. You built the modern western Nation State and control it's political systems. Maybe it would be more accurate, or perhaps a corollary, to say you are like the guy who can get 99/100 gifts but only remembers the 1 you didn't get instead of the 99 you did. I'm glad the majority of Christiandom isn't as whiny, I just wish you would join them in realizing that sometimes people say offensive things regardless of religion. You don't think other religions have been offended before? You don't think Christianity's arrogance and assumed superiority hasn't offended others? Do you think they cared they were offending people?
Your myopic vision and lack of knowledge offends me but I'm not blaming "the Downfall of Western Civilization" just because of it. I'm also not going to blame or generalize all of Dakka or all Christians for your profound lack of insight or critical reasoning. Like a reasonable person I'm just going to blame you. Most Christians are decent people.
After I posted I realized that I was being overly harsh and insensitive, and for that I apologize. Just because you make a mistake doesn't mean that I need to jump all over you about it and I apologize for that. Now in regards to your other issues, you will notice that I never made a comment about them because frankly you are right. Even if it is only lip service, the vast majority of politicians are "Christians." And yes your other points were very valid, despite my disagreement. My main problem was with your historical analysis, it was you who made the comment about World Empires, not I. Those were your words, plain and simple, so I simply attempted to point out your over generalization in the terms of the global scope. And for the record I am not a whiny person, I have many, many friends who are atheists, Hindus, Sikhs, etc. but all of them would agree with me that the issue at hand is disrespectful and intolerant. The point of my argument is that tolerance is a fragile thing and must be guarded with extreme vigilance. It is when we allow ourselves to let things slide that we turn our backs on our Enlightenment ideals, and to me that is frightening.
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DR:80+S(GT)G++M++B-I++Pwmhd05#+D+++A+++/sWD-R++T(Ot)DM+
How is it they live in such harmony - the billions of stars - when most men can barely go a minute without declaring war in their minds about someone they know.
- St. Thomas Aquinas
Warhammer 40K:
Alpha Legion - 15,000 pts For the Emperor!
WAAAGH! Skullhooka - 14,000 pts
Biel Tan Strikeforce - 11,000 pts
"The Eldar get no attention because the average male does not like confetti blasters, shimmer shields or sparkle lasers."
-Illeix |
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![[Post New]](/s/i/i.gif) 2009/07/29 04:44:43
Subject: Freedom of Religion, or Freedom from Religion?
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Da Head Honcho Boss Grot
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I'm not sure how Christianity being the most popular religion justifies hatred towards it.
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Anuvver fing - when they do sumfing, they try to make it look like somfink else to confuse everybody. When one of them wants to lord it over the uvvers, 'e says "I'm very speshul so'z you gotta worship me", or "I know summink wot you lot don't know, so yer better lissen good". Da funny fing is, arf of 'em believe it and da over arf don't, so 'e 'as to hit 'em all anyway or run fer it. |
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