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So recently the subject of movement and assault measurements has been an issue... the so called "fuzzy" movement. You have seen or experienced it... when someone measures their 6", 12" or whatever and then picks the model up and moves the tape measure while they move the model and get 13" or more out of it. Or worse yet they measure, don't mark the end point of the movement, and just sort of place the model and invariably it ends up 8" from where it started.

Now I don't expect perfection but since this is a game of inches I do try to be precise as possible in movements and use tricks like the TAC Template or pre-cut 6" and 12" measurement aid (the GW whip sticks are great for this). If the occasional movement is sloppy and is not game breaking I don't mind but when someone moves a Land Raider 14", deploys 3" from the vehicle and assaults 8" to hit your guys with a turn one assault it's trying at best. In FLGS game night scenarios it's not even worth the time to bother in many cases but in a tournament I expect a little more out of the person on the other side of the table.

How do you handle opponents that are too casual with their movement? Ask them up front to be careful? Wait until they pull one and then ask them to be more careful in measuring? How much of this do you tolerate before you ding their sports (if there is a sports) score?

Bring a yard stick to measure with, if they measure inappropriately beat them iwth the yard stick.

If by whip sticks you mean those red pointer things then yeah if you can get your hands on them there good exept for when you need to measure the full 72" of an earthshaker on a 9 by 6 table

The last time I had to play a particular player who measured sloppily was at the 'Ard Boys preliminary round. I pulled out a 6" section of tape measure I've cut to aid in my own movement, and asked him politely to use it, as I had observed his movement to be sloppy in the past.

I also spoke loud enough that our neighboring players, mostly other regulars at the store, could hear. By doing this, I was confronting him in a polite, though public and slightly embarrassing, way.

He turned down the use of my 6" measuring tool, but his measurements were much more careful during that game than they had been in the past.

The game board are all specific size , so are the movement. Usually with experience you can spot the half way , 1/4 way etc etc and easily compare it with how far their 6 , 12, 24 ,36, 48 inch movement goes.

No one at the local game store dare cheating because everyone can tell. Of course though all the Guess range measurement are accurate to within 1 inch difference only.

LunaHound wrote:
The game board are all specific size , so are the movement. Usually with experience you can spot the half way , 1/4 way etc etc and easily compare it with how far their 6 , 12, 24 ,36, 48 inch movement goes.

No one at the local game store dare cheating because everyone can tell. Of course though all the Guess range measurement are accurate to within 1 inch difference only.

You do realize that you haven't actually had to guess the range of "guess" range weaponry since 3rd edition, right?

The fuzzy movers that I game with use the technique where they move one to three models to a perfect six inches, but then all their friends just swarm up from behind to the front. Mostly, they are horde-style units, and the player claims they are just moving the game along all the faster by doing so.

Generally, I find that I have to keep calling them on it. I'll have to try the bit about offering the 6" piece of measuring tape. That might be quite effective.

Another important thing: if you're offering the 6" measuring tool... make sure you use it yourself too. The aim is to set a good example that will be followed, not to be a jerk about it.

willydstyle wrote:
You do realize that you haven't actually had to guess the range of "guess" range weaponry since 3rd edition, right?

What do you mean? you can measure guess ranged?

"Guess Range" weapons are, in 5th edition, simply another term for "barrage" weapons.

You place the blast marker, then you measure range. If you're in range, you roll to scatter.

The only "guessing" involved is that you have to eyeball to see if you're in range or not when you place the blast marker. Obviously not a problem with most barrage weapons.

I have a stick which is just over 5" long (6"plus a 28mm base). Makes it very easy to demonstrate the correct move distance. (place it on the table in front of the model, move the model to the other end of the stick). I haven't had to whip it out for a while (although one of best friends is notoriously bad at measuring vehicle moves around corners.)

One comment about the red whippy sticks, though - do check them. I've had plenty that were too short over the years (they shrink out of the mould when they cool).

willydstyle wrote:"Guess Range" weapons are, in 5th edition, simply another term for "barrage" weapons.

You place the blast marker, then you measure range. If you're in range, you roll to scatter.

The only "guessing" involved is that you have to eyeball to see if you're in range or not when you place the blast marker. Obviously not a problem with most barrage weapons.

They were in 4th as well.

Also some people I verse do have dodgey movements. I measure the 6" from the back of the base and remember that the base is supposed to be included in the 6" where as they measure from the back then place the model do the back is past the 6" occassionally continuing to meassure while moving. Same person that suggested no LOS blocking terrain that I did agree to (good idea at the time because it's usally completly blocked with walls set up to stop vehicles from accessing 2/3s of the board), but I knew their army was a Eldar army, just not gunline like it turned out to be.

That's even with the usual terrain placement we do which is roll to see who goes first. Person who goes first places a piece of terrain then it goes back and forth until all the terrain is placed. 3 buildings and I got second on a Sieze and control mission, that meant I had one building in my deployment and the other two were in the back corners of theirs.

Meassurement became really strict when my Dreadnought dropped in a Drop Pod behind the army with an Assault Cannon and Heavy Flamer. Kept missing CC by 1" though >_>

Armandloft wrote:The fuzzy movers that I game with use the technique where they move one to three models to a perfect six inches, but then all their friends just swarm up from behind to the front. Mostly, they are horde-style units, and the player claims they are just moving the game along all the faster by doing so.

See... as long as the FRONT rank is moved precisely I would not have such a big problem with that.

Truth of the matter is in my experience I see this a lot more with the Landraider/Termie squad of Doom/Nob Biker/Death Star style lists than I do hordes.

I'm fond of this for a measuring tool.
http://www.gf9.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=235

Aduro wrote:I'm fond of this for a measuring tool.
http://www.gf9.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=235

qft.

There's a player at our flgs who is notorious for fuzzy movement (among other things), and in one of our recent RTT tourneys, that template prevented no less than four of his assaults in our game. I didn't say a thing during movement, but I made sure to check the assault distance before he moved anything (measured from *my* bases--I don't touch other peoples stuff unless specifically asked to do so). Since it's a lot harder to get away with a 7"move/6" assault than 6.5"/6.5", it worked like a charm.

Against most folks, the "Sean-stick" stays in the case. Against TFG, the only thing my tape measures is shooting.

Those movement templates own. My opponents always ask to borrow it from me and it helps us remember whose turn it is.

I just say the following line "that seems a little far" usually then they know that I can tell there being fuzzy with there movement. If they keep doing it I call them out on it.

Call them out every time!

I had this happen to me this past weekend in a RTT. Ork player, with his 161 Ork army, moving his models, not taking into consideration the fact he was moving in a path that passed over his own models. I spoke up. He grumbled. Assault phase, he again didn't recognize the crossing over bases of his models and to top it off, didn't keep unit coherency during a charge.

Next turn, he does the "hot" 7 inch move and assaulted. I bit my tongue. He assaulted my 6 warlock council with Ghazgull, 4 meganobz, 9 stormboyz, 29 slugga boyz (each squad was maxed out with klaws). At the completion I was still there with my council, lost 2 warlocks. I "sponged" out that combat for another turn.

End of game he had the balls to say I was playing slow. I had 38 model Eldar and he had 161+ Orks. He had 1st turn and on my turn I shot (killing 61+ Orks), assault moved and said go. I got my 2nd turn with 20 minutes left in 2 hour game. I gave the dude max sportsmanship, but I didn't receive that in return. It's like WTF, but this is for a different time.

I love the GF9 template and use it religiously.

Maybe I should start cutting them out of cardboard and handing them to opponents when they start with the "move the tape measure and the model at the same time" business.

For measuring usually what we do is we both look at the assulter and assultee. Then if it's hard to tell, like the 6.5" thing then we ask someone else.

But I'm usually generous with that unless it's a tournament.

Plus I'm a horde ork player, what I do is arrange them in a very neat line and just measure the first line, and move the rest without measuring. That way my opponent can't call me sloppy.

And yes the GF9 template is sweet!

I think Fuzzy movers are repayed in time with gaming Karma.

barlio wrote:I think Fuzzy movers are repayed in time with gaming Karma.

I think they're repayed in time with wins, because we are playing a game where fractions of an inch make the difference between a 2nd turn and a 3rd turn charge, or whether or not you get that extra d6 penetration with a melt weapons, or whether you're in rapid fire range with your bolters.

Wishful thinking does not make it so cheaters do not prosper. You must call them on their behavior, and ask them to fix it.

I don't doubt that at all. If I feel uncomfortable with somebodies movement i ask them to double-check it. I don't have wishful thinking regarding what others "shouldn't" be doing and honestly think that there is this sense of honor between gamers. I'm not stupid, but I know getting into a nerd-rage on the net isn't going to help either.

If somebodies going to fudge movement then they lose. Yeah they may get the win, but at the end of the day they're the ones that have to deal with the reprecussions (sp) of being the donkey-cave.

The Green Git wrote:

Armandloft wrote:The fuzzy movers that I game with use the technique where they move one to three models to a perfect six inches, but then all their friends just swarm up from behind to the front. Mostly, they are horde-style units, and the player claims they are just moving the game along all the faster by doing so.

See... as long as the FRONT rank is moved precisely I would not have such a big problem with that.

Truth of the matter is in my experience I see this a lot more with the Landraider/Termie squad of Doom/Nob Biker/Death Star style lists than I do hordes.

I agree with this - when I play hordes and when basically everyone I play against who uses horde lists we measure the front rank carefully, move them up, and then to speed up the game just sort of hustle everyone else up behind them. Never had a problem with anyone when played like this.

My one truly bad fuzzy movement experience involved a Termie squad of Doom, and most of the fuzzy stuff I see involves vehicles.

To be honest I usually never make a fuss about it though - as every time I've ever seen anybody raise a fuss all it ever seems to do is generate frustration and annoyance with no particular correction being levied against the fuzzy mover. Providing an easy measuring stick or perhaps making polite inroads in that regard at the beginning of the game seem the best options to me.

I've had this done to me, and simply moved even *more* fuzzy than he did... It's pretty amusing.

JohnHwangDD wrote:I've had this done to me, and simply moved even *more* fuzzy than he did... It's pretty amusing.

Thus encouraging more blatant cheating?

Two wrongs may not make a right but they can make for a great time!

It can't be "cheating", because *both* players agreed to play towards a "loose" interpretation of the movement rules...

But it was blatant - that was the whole point. Towards the end of my movement phase, I wasn't even pretending to follow any movement restrictions.

Interestingly, it only took one round with him like that and he never pulled that stuff on me afterward...

For those guys, they only like to pull these kinds of things it if nobody does it back.

CatPeeler wrote:

Aduro wrote:I'm fond of this for a measuring tool.
http://www.gf9.com/store/product_info.php?cPath=28&products_id=235

qft.

There's a player at our flgs who is notorious for fuzzy movement (among other things), and in one of our recent RTT tourneys, that template prevented no less than four of his assaults in our game. I didn't say a thing during movement, but I made sure to check the assault distance before he moved anything (measured from *my* bases--I don't touch other peoples stuff unless specifically asked to do so). Since it's a lot harder to get away with a 7"move/6" assault than 6.5"/6.5", it worked like a charm.

Against most folks, the "Sean-stick" stays in the case. Against TFG, the only thing my tape measures is shooting.

Sean stick! Named after Sean@GF9 right? If so then LOL!

Thor665 wrote:To be honest I usually never make a fuss about it though - as every time I've ever seen anybody raise a fuss all it ever seems to do is generate frustration and annoyance with no particular correction being levied against the fuzzy mover. Providing an easy measuring stick or perhaps making polite inroads in that regard at the beginning of the game seem the best options to me.

This is the way I'm leaning. If you protest the loose movement, even if the other player is *blatantly* cheating, you are the one perceived as having the issue because you are the one calling the judge over. If you point it out in a friendly, non-accusatory manner and the other player is honest they will take the correction.

If not, then they get a zero for Sports.

Caffran9 wrote:Sean stick! Named after Sean@GF9 right? If so then LOL!

Nah--it's named after the fella whose cheating necessitates its use.