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Here is the situation: a rhino is surrounded completely by models with 25mm bases. One inch is 25.4 mm.

The attacking models destroy the rhino with a "vehicle destroyed-wrecked" result.

By the rules, a model has to be placed within 2" of an access point in order to disembark, or if they cannot use an access point, they simply use the vehicle's hull. Since the attacking minis must be in base-contact with the vehicle, the area that models cannot disembark into because of enemy models ends slightly less than 2" from the vehicle's hull.

Because simply touching the 2" measurement from the disembark point (or hull) counts as being "within 2 inches" then models are mathematically capable of disembarking on the other side of the enemy models' bases.

This seems like a strange situation, however, and I don't think a lot of people would play it this way.

So, how will you play it?

Are the models destroyed, or are they allowed to disembark on the other side of the enemy's bases?

If i have to guess (this is a guess!!! cuz i dunno!)

i would place the occupants in the area where the rhino was. if the models dont fit , the left overs are count as dead.

LunaHound wrote:
If i have to guess (this is a guess!!! cuz i dunno!)

i would place the occupants in the area where the rhino was. if the models dont fit , the left overs are count as dead.

That's how a "vehicle destroyed- explodes!" is played out. If the vehicle is wrecked rather than exploded, the models disembark and the vehicle is left in play as terrain.

Option C:
Clearly, now would be a good time to debate such fine points as "How does one determine when a model is in base contact with a vehicle?", "Due to a manufacturing defect, is my opponent using 26mm bases?", "Are any of the measuring devices in use accurate to .05mm so that this can even be determined?", and "Why the are we playing each other?"

.4 mm is something that can be measured and seen by the eye.

If you're trying to say that disembarking would be unsportsmanlike...

Well I counter that refusing to play by the rules is unsportsmanlike.

This is one of those situations where I'd probably count my own models as destroyed, but I have actually allowed my opponent to disembark in a similar situation as well.

Following the rules is not unsportsmanlike behavior.

Oh, hai Guise!

I'm gonna have to say Destroyed, because you Must Disembark from the Transport FIRST, only Then does it become terrain, not before. And before it is terrain, it is a model, which cannot have another model occupying its personal space! (page 67: The passengers must immediately disembark and then take a Pinning test . Any models that cannot disembark are destroyed. After this, the vehicle becomes a wreck.)

Also, read the rules for disembarking again. They say: "Models cannot disembark within 1" of an enemy". This does NOT change in the Assault Phase, so even in the assault phase, if you cannot place the models within 2" of the hull AND 1" from models, they count as being unable to even emergency disembark (as the vehicle becomes a wreck only AFTER they disembark) and are destroyed.

Gwar! wrote:Oh, hai Guise!

I'm gonna have to say Destroyed, because you Must Disembark from the Transport FIRST, only Then does it become terrain, not before. And before it is terrain, it is a model, which cannot have another model occupying its personal space!

Also, read the rules for disembariking again. They say: "Models cannot disembark within 1" of an enemy". This does NOT change in the Assault Phase, so even in the assault phase, if you cannot place the models within 2" of the hull AND 1" from models, they count as being unable to even emergency disembark (as the vehicle becomes a wreck only AFTER they disembark) and are destroyed.

Hi, Gwar, I think you're misinterpreting things.

My first post is intended to show how you can disembark within 2" of the hull (I did not mention disembarking in the vehicle's space at all) but since a 25mm base is less than 1" wide, you can, legally, disembark on the other side of the enemy's bases.

While I realize the models aren't physcially moving from the vehicle to their disembark point, it's certainly implied. Since you cannot move through other models...

willydstyle wrote:

Gwar! wrote:Oh, hai Guise!

I'm gonna have to say Destroyed, because you Must Disembark from the Transport FIRST, only Then does it become terrain, not before. And before it is terrain, it is a model, which cannot have another model occupying its personal space!

Also, read the rules for disembariking again. They say: "Models cannot disembark within 1" of an enemy". This does NOT change in the Assault Phase, so even in the assault phase, if you cannot place the models within 2" of the hull AND 1" from models, they count as being unable to even emergency disembark (as the vehicle becomes a wreck only AFTER they disembark) and are destroyed.

Hi, Gwar, I think you're misinterpreting things.

My first post is intended to show how you can disembark within 2" of the hull (I did not mention disembarking in the vehicle's space at all) but since a 25mm base is less than 1" wide, you can, legally, disembark on the other side of the enemy's bases.

I remind you that in order to disembark legally, they must remain more than 1" away from any enemy models, as per page 67, and nothing changes this for the assault phase. 0.4mm is just a tiny bit less than 1", so they cannot disembark.

Willy, do you not understand the rules regarding minimum distance from enemy models?


You have to stay a least 1 " away unless you are assaulting.


So that only gives a .4 MM area to deploy. Hense they are destroyed.

A tiny bit less than 1" is still less than 1".

@Clthomps:

2" away from the hull will be 1" plus .4 mm away from the enemy models, if the attacking models have been placed correctly against the vehicle.

Gwar! wrote:Oh, hai Guise!

I'm gonna have to say Destroyed, because you Must Disembark from the Transport FIRST, only Then does it become terrain, not before. And before it is terrain, it is a model, which cannot have another model occupying its personal space! (page 67: The passengers must immediately disembark and then take a Pinning test . Any models that cannot disembark are destroyed. After this, the vehicle becomes a wreck.)

Also, read the rules for disembarking again. They say: "Models cannot disembark within 1" of an enemy". This does NOT change in the Assault Phase, so even in the assault phase, if you cannot place the models within 2" of the hull AND 1" from models, they count as being unable to even emergency disembark (as the vehicle becomes a wreck only AFTER they disembark) and are destroyed.

Yes, but hes saying since the rhino allows you to have a 2" placement zone around the rhino, and a single base isnt big enough to cover over an inch away from the hull, can you simply place them on the other side.

I personally think its silly for any army to lose a unit because their transport has been surrounded. I do play by that if theres no where to place my unit (its really my fault if that happens), but I have no problem "hopping" over them. It doesnt say they have to walk out.

From the edge of the hull, base + base is .8 mm less than 2"

willydstyle wrote:A tiny bit less than 1" is still less than 1".

Yes, it is Less than 1". Models may not Disembark within 1" of enemy models (page 67).

But the entirety of the disembarked troops base does not have to be within the 2" zone, as shown on the example on page 67.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Gwar! wrote:

willydstyle wrote:A tiny bit less than 1" is still less than 1".

Yes, it is Less than 1". Models may not Disembark within 1" of enemy models (page 67).

Exactly, so if you are exactly 2" away from the hull, you will be 1" plus .4 mm from the enemy model.

willydstyle wrote:But the entirety of the disembarked troops base does not have to be within the 2" zone, as shown on the example on page 67.

That is not the point I am making. You are correct in stating they do not have to be fully in the 2" zone. However, I assume that the vehicle is fully surrounded by enemies on 25mm bases. As such, when you place your model at the edge of the disembarking zone, they would be less than 1" away from an enemy model (0.3-0.4mm as you said.) As such, they cannot disembark, as per page 67, which does not change in the assault phase.

Gwar! wrote:

willydstyle wrote:But the entirety of the disembarked troops base does not have to be within the 2" zone, as shown on the example on page 67.

That is not the point I am making. You are correct in stating they do not have to be fully in the 2" zone. However, I assume that the vehicle is fully surrounded by enemies on 25mm bases. As such, when you place your model at the edge of the disembarking zone, they would be less than 1" away from an enemy model (0.3-0.4mm as you said.) As such, they cannot disembark, as per page 67, which does not change in the assault phase.

No, they'd be more than one inch from the enemy model, since a base is less than one inch wide, not more.

Get the rulers !
wait i have one here , its exactly 1 inch diameter

willydstyle wrote:

Gwar! wrote:

willydstyle wrote:But the entirety of the disembarked troops base does not have to be within the 2" zone, as shown on the example on page 67.

That is not the point I am making. You are correct in stating they do not have to be fully in the 2" zone. However, I assume that the vehicle is fully surrounded by enemies on 25mm bases. As such, when you place your model at the edge of the disembarking zone, they would be less than 1" away from an enemy model (0.3-0.4mm as you said.) As such, they cannot disembark, as per page 67, which does not change in the assault phase.

No, they'd be more than one inch from the enemy model, since a base is less than one inch wide, not more.

What? Look, i think we have gotten mixed up, let me draw a diagram.

As you can see, if a Transport is totally surrounded by 25mm bases, there is only a 0.4mm space to deploy, because deploying there would place the models within 1" of an enemy, they cannot disembark.

I was gonna use VASSAL but I haven't re-installed it yet, so M$ Paint will do

And I have a tape measure that shows me the base is slightly less than 1"... about half a millimeter less.

But Gwar, those blue bases are not two inches from the vehicle's hull, and those assaulting models are not "base to base" with the vehicle.

willydstyle wrote:And I have a tape measure that shows me the base is slightly less than 1"... about half a millimeter less.

It doesn't matter, in that case you are deploying 0.45mm away from an enemy, which you cannt do because Page 67 says you must disembark more than 1" from an enemy, which 0.45mm is not.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

willydstyle wrote:But Gwar, those blue bases are not two inches from the vehicle's hull, and those assaulting models are not "base to base" with the vehicle.

Pretend they are then, its the same, just imagine all the white space is gone. I made it in 7 seconds, but I shall get VASSAL installed ASAP to make a nice scale pic for you :3

Edit: Woops it seems GW shut down another fan project, oh well.

This pic isnt an emergency disembark either (only 2" from the door), so the roundness does not apply.

Thanks, night lords.

That is clearly less than 1" edge to edge though....

But anyway, it's on a case by case basis. If they get to be more than 1", go them, if not, they are killed.

But it's also not mathematically accurate, it just displays the concept.

2" from hull, minus .98" (25mm/25.4mm) is 1.02 inches, so you have .02 inches to disembark in. Also, the picture showed me that it's actually even easier to disembark more than one inch from enemy models, while still being within 2" of the hull, because the bases are round.

Gwar! wrote:That is clearly less than 1" edge to edge though....

Well, its not easy to tell. I dont feel like converting mm to inches myself to do the math but....the bases are less than 1" wide. lets says its 0.9". If I have two inches to work with, its 2-0.9 = 1.1".

Not only that, but the bases are round, so you can easily squeeze inbetween 2 round based units.

While you may be theoretically correct, things are never that accurate. your base might be a bit too big, things cannot actually be in base contact (there is always SOME empty space between them) and lets not forget the added distance the bevelled edge gives to the base width. But as I said, if you are able to get 1", then they can disembark fine, if not, they are destroyed. Look at it on a case by case basis is the only real way to do it.

The 25mm is measured across the bottom of the base.

Also, because of the tracked nature of most vehicles, "base to base" contact will mean that your base is a bit underneath the "hull" of the vehicle.

Again, I'll repeat that I won't play this way, but if my opponent insists on playing by the rules I would allow it.

Gwar! wrote:While you may be theoretically correct, things are never that accurate. your base might be a bit too big, things cannot actually be in base contact (there is always SOME empty space between them) and lets not forget the added distance the bevelled edge gives to the base width. But as I said, if you are able to get 1", then they can disembark fine, if not, they are destroyed. Look at it on a case by case basis is the only real way to do it.

Simple solution is to ask exactly which units are assaulting and count them up. If theyre attacking it, you can move a unit behind them. However, in the case of surrounding a vehicle with only one unit, you have to try to be in base to base anyways. I dont think its possible to be able to wrap around and completely surround it without being base to base.

While the rules technically allow them to disembark, I'm going with 'destroyed'


Nitpicking over .4 of a mm, while perfectly valid in a straight rules discussion, is a little over the top during an actual game.

Particularly since the bases measure slightly differently depending on your ruler, and on whether or not they have any flange of flash left on them.