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Page 67 of the rulebook (emphasis mine):

"If the vehicle has already moved (including pivoting on the spot), the passengers may disembark, but not move any further in that movement phase."


To me, the use of the term "any further" clearly indicates that disembarking is a special form of movement (as moving more would be 'further' movement). Therefore disembarking follows all the normal restrictions for movement unless specified otherwise, including the inability to move through enemy models.

So I naturally voted that the disembarking models would be destroyed in this situation.

But, since bases are round, you can actually disembark within 2" and have a bit more comfortable distance from the bases of the assaulting infantry. If you place two bases right on a line, and then draw a 2" line perpendicular to the two bases, that extends from the original line through the point where the bases of the attacking models meet, then place a model at the end of that two inch line, you have a space between the attacking models and the disembarking models that is pretty comfortably outside of 1" from the models.

You have about 1/16" clearance.

willydstyle wrote:
You have about 1/16" clearance.

I really dont think GW made the rules expecting us to considerate that

Maybe I've done too much engineering and science work... but 1/16" is definitely something that's easily measurable.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

yakface wrote:
Page 67 of the rulebook (emphasis mine):

"If the vehicle has already moved (including pivoting on the spot), the passengers may disembark, but not move any further in that movement phase."


To me, the use of the term "any further" clearly indicates that disembarking is a special form of movement (as moving more would be 'further' movement). Therefore disembarking follows all the normal restrictions for movement unless specified otherwise, including the inability to move through enemy models.

So I naturally voted that the disembarking models would be destroyed in this situation.

But if you read the main rules for disembarking, it says "each model is deployed within 2" of one of the vehicle's access points."

"Deployed" doesn't sound like "moved" to me.

To be honest, the strategy to completely surround a vehicle doesnt seem like one GW thought of in the first place. They talk as if this situation would be used if youre next to impassable terrain or if a few units were passing by and you simply couldnt get all your models out.

Otherwise they would have simply said "if all the hatches are occupied by enemy models, the model inside is destroyed".

Night Lords wrote:To be honest, the strategy to completely surround a vehicle doesnt seem like one GW thought of in the first place. They talk as if this situation would be used if youre next to impassable terrain or if a few units were passing by and you simply couldnt get all your models out.

Otherwise they would have simply said "if all the hatches are occupied by enemy models, the model inside is destroyed".

It's also something that I almost never see in real play. Some players do like to block hatches and expect units to be destroyed, though.

willydstyle wrote:

Night Lords wrote:To be honest, the strategy to completely surround a vehicle doesnt seem like one GW thought of in the first place. They talk as if this situation would be used if youre next to impassable terrain or if a few units were passing by and you simply couldnt get all your models out.

Otherwise they would have simply said "if all the hatches are occupied by enemy models, the model inside is destroyed".

It's also something that I almost never see in real play. Some players do like to block hatches and expect units to be destroyed, though.

My friend does it to me all the time when I hide inside a rhino from his banshees (which came out of the impossible to kill wave serpent). Luckily Ive survived their wrath in CC thanks to his cruddy rolling haha.

Night Lords wrote:

willydstyle wrote:

Night Lords wrote:To be honest, the strategy to completely surround a vehicle doesnt seem like one GW thought of in the first place. They talk as if this situation would be used if youre next to impassable terrain or if a few units were passing by and you simply couldnt get all your models out.

Otherwise they would have simply said "if all the hatches are occupied by enemy models, the model inside is destroyed".

It's also something that I almost never see in real play. Some players do like to block hatches and expect units to be destroyed, though.

My friend does it to me all the time when I hide inside a rhino from his banshees (which came out of the impossible to kill wave serpent). Luckily Ive survived their wrath in CC thanks to his cruddy rolling haha.

Well... also, the only model in the banshee squad that has a chance of hurting the rhino is the exarch, and then only if she has an executioner.

yakface wrote:
Page 67 of the rulebook (emphasis mine):

"If the vehicle has already moved (including pivoting on the spot), the passengers may disembark, but not move any further in that movement phase."


To me, the use of the term "any further" clearly indicates that disembarking is a special form of movement (as moving more would be 'further' movement). Therefore disembarking follows all the normal restrictions for movement unless specified otherwise, including the inability to move through enemy models.

So I naturally voted that the disembarking models would be destroyed in this situation.

But if you read the main rules for disembarking, it says "each model is deployed within 2" of one of the vehicle's access points."

"Deployed" doesn't sound like "moved" to me.

How is this conversation still going on?

Pg 67. BGRB

... When a unit disembarks, each model is deployed within 2' ...

Within
1. in or into the interior or inner part; inside.
2. on, or as regards, the inside; internally.
3. in or into the interior of or the parts or space enclosed by: within city walls.
4. inside of; in.
5. in the compass or limits of; not beyond: within view; to live within one's income.


So unless your marines are on .4mm bases (with the opponents permission of course ) They are destroyed.




In this image the SM are deployed illegally since they are not within the 2' bubble.

Clthomps wrote:In this image the SM are deployed illegally since they are not within the 2' bubble.

The entire model doesn't have to be within 2". There just needs to be 2" or less between the vehicle and the closest edge of the model's base.

Check the diagram on page 67.

Except the picture on page 67 shows that GW clearly has a different in-game definition for what "within" means.

I always assumed that model was not part the of the disembarking unit. Zoom in real close and you can see that the grey bubble ends before the base of the marine in question.

And at any rate if this is a debate on pure RAW then as written the whole model must be within the 2" bubble.



Also I feel Yakface has a good point.

Yakface
"As I pointed out, it says that moving the models after disembarking counts as mov[ing] them further. They are absolutely moving when being deployed, it is just a special type of movement with additional restrictions, but it is still movement."

What I see is... the models count has having moved because the vehicle moved. Disembarkation sounds like to me is a special form of deployment; deployment is what we do at the beginning of the game and it doesn't count as moving, as you are "placing" your models. However disembarking has additional restrictions, mainly on your shooting, but also if the vehicle moved, you lose your movement. I'm reading both bullets points on pg67 and a little bit on pg 66.

Clthomps wrote:I always assumed that model was not part the of the disembarking unit.

The caption does refer to all of the Space Marines.

Zoom in real close and you can see that the grey bubble ends before the base of the marine in question.

Looks to be touching his base to me.

And at any rate if this is a debate on pure RAW then as written the whole model must be within the 2" bubble.

RAW requires no such thing.

In order to determine the distance between two objects, you measure between the closest points of the two things in question. That's not only how you would do it normally, it's what the rules say to do. (Page 4)

So to determine whether one thing is within 2" of another, you measure from the closest point of the first thing to the closest point of the second. In this particular case, that means from the closest point on the vehicle's hull to the closest point of the model's base.

The whole model does not need to be within 2" because the rules don't state that the whole model needs to be within 2".

So the rules state that they simply have to be within 2". The diagram provided backs this up. So the RAW is very definitely not that the whole model needs to be within 2".

The capture under the diagram says that "all of the space marines have disembarked within 2" of the thransport's access points."

The one at the edge of the bubble is one of the space marines, and several of the other ones have their bases partially within the 2" bubbles and partially out.

Yakface's point is based on an implication.

The paragraph after the one he quotes says that if the vehicle has not moved, then the passengers may disembark and move normally. This implies that disembarking is not movement just as much as Yakface's quote implies that the disembark is movement.

The real question on that image is how to you get from the vehicle to the other side of the enemy models? TELEPORT? You cannot pass within 1 inch of enemy models. In that case you are violating that rule. You can only do that during an assault. Even if you played this way you may be able to "save" two models at best.

smart_alex wrote: You cannot pass within 1 inch of enemy models. In that case you are violating that rule.

Only if you agree that disembarking counts as moving.

insaniak wrote:

smart_alex wrote: You cannot pass within 1 inch of enemy models. In that case you are violating that rule.

Only if you agree that disembarking counts as moving.

Which, while I agree with Yakface is implied, it is certainly not concretely written in the rules.

Logically (a word I am loathe to use in an abstracted game system), the reason for having the 1 inch minimum distance to deploy is that as you leave a vehicle, you are vulnerable to attack.

Getting out of a tank whilst surrounded by guants/orks/anything would be suicided. If your tank is destroyed and you must disembark - sorry, youre dead. Unit destroyed.

I do have a question tho - deployment from the exit hatches is 2 inches - can you disembark on top of the destroyed tank? Sure, you take a dangerous terrain test, but its better than 'obliterated'! Also, if youre tank is in ruins and the second level is within 2 inches - can you disembark upwards?

darkkt wrote:Logically (a word I am loathe to use in an abstracted game system), the reason for having the 1 inch minimum distance to deploy is that as you leave a vehicle, you are vulnerable to attack.

Getting out of a tank whilst surrounded by guants/orks/anything would be suicided. If your tank is destroyed and you must disembark - sorry, youre dead. Unit destroyed.

I do have a question tho - deployment from the exit hatches is 2 inches - can you disembark on top of the destroyed tank? Sure, you take a dangerous terrain test, but its better than 'obliterated'! Also, if youre tank is in ruins and the second level is within 2 inches - can you disembark upwards?

The sequence of events for a "vehicle destroyed-wrecked" result is very specific:

You disembark the unit, then the vehicle counts as a wreck, in that order. Because of that you cannot disembark on top of the wrecked vehicle.

LunaHound wrote:Get the rulers !
wait i have one here , its exactly 1 inch diameter

Then I'm afraid you're using non-standard bases, and as such I have the right to object, as per pg.3 of the BGB.

willydstyle wrote:The capture under the diagram says that "all of the space marines have disembarked within 2" of the thransport's access points."

The one at the edge of the bubble is one of the space marines, and several of the other ones have their bases partially within the 2" bubbles and partially out.

Yakface's point is based on an implication.

The paragraph after the one he quotes says that if the vehicle has not moved, then the passengers may disembark and move normally. This implies that disembarking is not movement just as much as Yakface's quote implies that the disembark is movement.

Completely incorrect.

Not all movement is normal movement. Disembarking is movement, as I have shown, this is not implication. Deep Striking is similarly described as being movement. Running is movement. Assaulting is movement. None of these are "normal" movement per se, but they are all still movement and therefore still follow the basic restrictions for moving.


You created a poll to find out how/why people play an issue, and that is my personal take on it. I see the rules as clearly prohibiting models from disembarking through enemy models surrounding their vehicle.

I have never done this in a game.

However, I voted that they could be placed on the other side. My rational was that the models are "placed" when they disembark. Because they are "placed" and not actually moved, there is no instance where they move through enemy models. As such, there is nothing illegal about the placement so long as it is within 2" of the hull and more than 1" from the enemy models.

insaniak wrote:While the rules technically allow them to disembark, I'm going with 'destroyed'


Nitpicking over .4 of a mm, while perfectly valid in a straight rules discussion, is a little over the top during an actual game.

Particularly since the bases measure slightly differently depending on your ruler, and on whether or not they have any flange of flash left on them.

I wonder, out of interest, do you apply the same stance to infiltrating melee units (if they are out of line of sight they have to be just over 12" away) would they be allowed to assault? Just curious, not trying to say something about you.

Regarding this Issue I agree with Yakface, you can't move through an enemy unit even when disembarking because it is still a movement and follows the normal movement rules except where otherwhise noted.


Also, lol @ all the distance confusion on the first page, I'm sure it's been cleared up by now but.

base = 25mm = 0.984 inches
disembark range = 50.8mm = 2 inches
difference = 25.8mm = 1.016 inches

sure it's small, but people on that first page seemed to think 2 inches was 25.4mm

willydstyle wrote:

Night Lords wrote:To be honest, the strategy to completely surround a vehicle doesnt seem like one GW thought of in the first place. They talk as if this situation would be used if youre next to impassable terrain or if a few units were passing by and you simply couldnt get all your models out.

Otherwise they would have simply said "if all the hatches are occupied by enemy models, the model inside is destroyed".

It's also something that I almost never see in real play. Some players do like to block hatches and expect units to be destroyed, though.

happens all the time with snikrot.

To clear up this storm, me and my opponents always say that if models are over the troop hatches then models in transports can't get out.

Invent fluff like they welded the doors shut, or that they're shooting into the hatches.

I'd never even consider this as a possibility. Good call though, it'd just never fly with my gaming group :(

Tek wrote:To clear up this shitstorm, me and my opponents always say that if models are over the troop hatches then models in transports can't get out.

Invent fluff like they welded the doors shut, or that they're shooting into the hatches.

I'd never even consider this as a possibility. Good call though, it'd just never fly with my gaming group :(

That's an interesting solution given there are specific rules for disembarking when the hatches are blocked.

Tek wrote:To clear up this shitstorm, me and my opponents always say that if models are over the troop hatches then models in transports can't get out.

Invent fluff like they welded the doors shut, or that they're shooting into the hatches.

I'd never even consider this as a possibility. Good call though, it'd just never fly with my gaming group :(

Why would your house rules clear anything up? Also, the emergency disembark rules are written specifically for when the hatches are covered. In order to be able to destroy an embarked unit by killing the vehicle, you have to completely surround it, anything less won't work.

I play it as Destoyed

Most play it as Destoyed

I hate it but give up the good fight.. i think this rule sucks a fat one personally