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I am interested in developing a list of counters versus lash for the Ard Boyz finals. By the looks of the results it appears that lash spam will be the most popular army in Chicago next month.

I play mechanized Blood Angels and my counters are to keep my units embarked until I can assault. I also field one unit of allied Grey Knights and the Justicar has a psychic hood. The Justicar is Ld9 versus the prince Ld10 so you need a good dice roll but it's certainly better than no hood at all. Also if possible I'll shoot the princes as much as possible if they present themselves as targets.

I would imagine that the variants of SM armies can use the same tactics as mine but they also have access to a Ld10 hood as well.

Orkz have some problems as they are a horde and will be exposed unless they run all trukkz and battlewagons.

IG can also run a purely mech list plus they have access to the hood and PSB.

CSM will most likely being playing against CSM over the course of the day and their only counter I can think of is mech and shooting the opponents' princes. This will surely be some interesting games.

Chaos daemons have no counters I am aware of other than the BotBG for the BT.

G

Why not bring an inquisitor lord with psychic hood and a couple of mystics?

Green Blow Fly wrote:
I play mechanized Blood Angels

What other counters do you need?

Mechanized is a good counter to lash.

Yeah, I see a mechanized list winning the Ard Boyz.

extrenm(54) wrote:Mechanized is a good counter to lash.

The problem of course being, not the lash, but the 9 obliterators that are a pretty good counter to mech.

So the trick is going to be to bring enough lascannons and multi-meltas to be able to try popping those obliterators from turn one.

That's a very good point, lash spam will include 6-9 Oblits which are tough against rhinos. Make sure if you win the roll for deployment to not give your opponent a DZ where they can setup their Oblits elevated on top of a building. If they have to setup on the tabletop this greatly cuts down their overall LOS. I think it's better to go first so you can move up your tanks and pop smoke. Once your engaged in close combat that effectively nerfs lash as well.

G

mechanized and psychic hood. Case closed.

I HATE PSYCHIC HOODS :( or farseers.... /cry

Well......considering lash is pretty cheap points wise and that any good opponent won't rely on it wholey, you should prepare for lash AND the rest of the army that follows.

If you want something specific to lash:
http://www.belloflostsouls.net/2007/08/tactica-lash-of-submission-part-2.html

My 7 Cents.

It's not uncounterable. The difficulty is dealing with both the Lash and the 9 Obliterators.

Ideas? I have suggested going first, moving up and popping smoke. What about starting with your entire army in reserve?

G

Green Blow Fly wrote:Ideas? I have suggested going first, moving up and popping smoke. What about starting with your entire army in reserve?

G

If there are elements of your army that can effectively destroy obliterators or daemon princes on the turn they come in from reserve, then reserves can be effective.

You've made it to the last round of 'Ard boyz, which means, theoretically you should have a more sound grasp of tactics and strategy than most of the people on this board. If I were you I'd be playing practice games against good players with min/max chaos lists in order to figure out what works best, rather than asking people on the internets.

Could also use GK terms with hood for the LD10.. But thats an elite slot and I know how BA lists are

I know you play Marines, but I can't help adding that Mech Eldar with 8 Grav tanks and Eldrad (Runes of Warding, take a perils a turn please ) will pretty much trap Lash completely, and the obliterators are mince meat when faced with a S7 AP2 Large Blast

I played a practice game yesterday against another finalist who is running lash spam and it prompted me to start this thread. Overall I have a good record versus lash spam but it will be the best players in Chicago and seeing they are most popular I think this is a great place to compare notes so to speak.

I am very happy with the Grey Knights in power armor as an allied troop choice. GKTs are too expensive in my mind.

I have some units that can take out Oblits and daemon princes when they come in from reserve but it's risky.

G

An Inq with a psychic hood, inside his own LRC fits in every army, especially at 2500 points.

Can't you also take Mephiston, or are you relying on Dante/Corbulo?

EDIT:

I think the big thing everybody forgets about lash is that it really comes through for that one important turn or end game. For example, turns 1-3, you'll be all meched up, and no problem, but he'll be hiding the lash anyway. Turn 4-6, units will be in and out of assault and moving towards objectives, and that's when you'll be vulnerable, and one bad lash is all it takes. Working a psychic hood in there plus the mech is the best option.

Lash is designed to amplify the effectiveness of other units in the game (get you closer or clump you together). It really is going to depend on what you are lined up against and how your opponent builds his list.

I don't know what your list looks like so i don't know what you are lacking as is.. Rhinos/Razorbacks should help you defend against the lash pretty well. Another route is to make use of the combat squad ability. If he is using it to shoot you or assault, you can limit the damage he is capable of doing.

My personal favorite way to make the lash worthless is to get right up into their faces and get into assault.

I agree that killing them via shooting or close combat is the best defense. If you play aggressive and can get stuck it the princes are pretty much forced to assault. If you can kill one early on that really helps a lot.

I run Dante and Corbulo so Mephiston is not a good choice for me seeing what Dante can do.

G

A good counter is to also stay in reserve. Chaos doesn't have a way to deal with that at all. If you are playing mechanized / dont have first turn or he gives you the first turn.

Put everything in reserve. That way he either sets his obliterators out or he decides to deepstrike.

Inq with psychic hood in an LRC.

Don't forget the holy relic!

G

Mephiston. Has his own hood and probably not half bad against lash sorcerors as I think he can still suck thier souls?

Just curious: How does the PA GK squad fit into your Mech BA army? Are they hanging out in the back or do they borrow a vehicle?

They borrow a vehicle.

G

I would STRONGLY recommend against starting your entire army in reserve. That just makes a bad situation worse. You end up feeding units to the oblits+the rest of his army.

edit: See you in Chi-town!

Green Blow Fly wrote:Chaos daemons have no counters I am aware of other than the BotBG for the BT.

That's only useful against wounds. The daemon defense is to get the oblits and sorcerors in assault as quickly as possible. Or drop a triple-flamer-suicide-squad on the oblits.

Very good point!

G

Try to reach his oblits before he can shoot you up to much. smoke and screening rhinos with Landraiders and cover would be your best bet IMO. Keeping everything in a vehicle and hoping for good Psychic hood rolls.

Lascannons and ML can help ID the Oblits before they can do to much to you.

Ill stick with my suggestions from the messages

5 assault vets, storm shields, hammer and 2 power weps.

Bait unit of death company (packs) to use to lure away the prince and also a nice charge unit for oblits.

Failing that, throw meph with the assault vets and use wings of sang. each turn to make sure he keeps up with them.

Also, avoid using vehicles, no point in throwing 300-500 points into vehicles when there will be a ton of oblits facing them.

I am a big fan of power fists. Lysander is my favorite Space Marine ever. However power weapons can work well in a BA list if you keep them in range of Dante and Corbulo.

I think the key to beating lash spam is to outshoot them. They rely upon lots of rhinos. You can either first kill all the Oblits and then pop rhinos, or vice versatile if they decide to deep strike the Oblits.

The problem with no vehicles versus lash spam is the princes will clump your squads and the Oblits will soak them with plasma blast templates. If you know how to get around that I'd love to hear it.

G