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I am in a bit of a pickle because my brother plays Orks, Tyranids and Tau.

So i am wondering on what i shound mount on my Razorbacks, heavy bolter or lascannons?

Does he use lots of tanks/high toughness units? Take the Lascannons.

Does he use lots of hordey junk or low AV armour? Take the Heavy Bolter.

Heavy bolter will outperform the lascannon against the 3 armys you listed. Why? More shots, decent str/ap, means you will kill more of their troops every turn than a Las. However, if your bro runs a lot of Trukks, MC's, or Tau Hammerheads/Crisis Suits, the Lascannon better fits your needs. Why? it one shots a battleshoot, kills trukks easily (when it hits), and can pick away at pesky carnifexes and Hive Tyrants.

take the lascannon / twin linked plasma gun one.

if you don't move it, it gets more shots, so its better for dealing with hordes of high armor targets... like carnifexes or meganobz.

How does that one work. You get TL PC and a LC and can fire both?

Yep. You get two weapons. You still can only target one enemy unit, but you've got 3 AP2 shots when standing still, and a great choice of LC or TL-PG when you move 6". Taking a Storm Bolter on this variant can give you a total of 5 shots per turn in 12", or 4 at 24". Pretty good for a transport.

Personally I think this variant (LC/TL-PG) will emerge as the strongest of this edition. It's all around power and flexibility, which you don't get from the TL-LC or the TL-HB. I think the TL Assault Cannon and maybe the TL Heavy Flamer are competition for best config, but the old configurations (HB and LC) are looking awfully out-moded in this codex.

I dunno, Heavy bolter still has it going on for cheapness (points wise).

Jack

TL AC and the LC/TL-PG are great if you have the points to spare. Both can get the job done against a variety of targets. The LC/TL-PG is a little more appealing for the AP2 shots, but there's something really gratifying about rolling multiple 6s on your wound/AP rolls.

The HB is obviously great for the (lack of) points cost, and will do just fine for your anti-horde needs. I would only field it if I had enough heavy fire-power for the bigger threats.

Where can I get the LC/TL-PG or the AC upgrades?

They aren't in production as far as I know. Forge world may have some, but I just make my own.

For the LC/TL-PG, I use the TL-LC, chop off one, and glue two plasmaguns with the stocks shaved off together (for twinlinking) and stick it in the empty spot.

I don't have any TL-ACs yet either, but if I wanted them, I'd just use the TL-AC's from the Ravenwing Squadron boxed set (that comes with 6 bikes, 1 AB, and a Speeder, plus THREE sprues full of great extra Dark Angels bits and guns). I'm sure it wouldn't be too hard to figure out how to mount it on the RB hardpoint turret.

You Need to build them from bitz.

The LC/TL PG was the armament of the old metal razorback turret but i doubt you find one nowadays.

TL asscannon could be a Land raider turret from the crusader/redeemer sprue.

Oh yeah! I forgot, the LRC/R kit has a TL-AC that is exactly the right fit. You can buy just the bits from GW Direct, or someplace like thewarstore.com.

Iron Gryphon wrote:I am in a bit of a pickle because my brother plays Orks, Tyranids and Tau.

So i am wondering on what i shound mount on my Razorbacks, heavy bolter or lascannons?

What unit are these razorbacks transporting? Im just thinking, if this is a Dev. squad with say 2 LC/2ML, if you take LC's on the razorback you will be adding to the fire of this squad, or if you use HB's then you're providing more anti-infantry to fill the gap of what this squad cant handle. 2LC/ TL LC and 2 krak missles will go a fair way to taking down armour/transports. but if you're worried about the boyz that are spilling out of the trukks you're popping, 2 frag missles and a TL HB... probably isn't going do as much to hordes as the TL lascannon/Dev squad will do to vehicles. So in this case, I'd go LC.

However, if this is my commander w/ retinue in the razorback, TL HB/stormbolter if they have a powerfist/something anti-mech in the squad, and TL Lascannon/ Stormbolter if their anti tank was little to none.

Personally? I'd stick HB onto a razorback for Dev squads, cheap+extra fire. TL AC on any other razorback

Between those two choices I would go with the HB.
LC razorbacks get very expensive, and there are better places to put your anti-armor -- like on an attack bike or land speeder.

Get the assault cannon variant, it is better at everything than anything, ever.

For rizzle.

To be honest here, both orks and nids struggle to kill armour at range, tau do well, but its via massed high strength shots.

a landraider in the army may actually work well.
(crusader for plenty of anti-infantry / tyrants / small vehicles) or a standard pattern for the anti-tank and MC.


Failing that, why not just take a vindicator or 3?
It will solve all problems (troops, tanks, MC's) in 1 go.

I hate to disagree with you there, Rory, but actually, the LC/TL-PG variant far outstrips the TL-AC vs Heavy Infantry (TEQ), Medium Infantry (MEQ or 3+) and Monsterous Creatures including TMCs, DPs, and the Avatar. AP2 on both weapons would give you an edge vs anything with FNP

Against light infantry, the TL-AC would be better for volume of shots at AP4, as well as being a better choice against AV 13 and 14. TL-AC + SB would be a good combo, able to move 6" and put out 6 shots at 24". It would be like a mini-Baal Predator.

I prefer the LC/TL-PG for the reasons above. I use melta for AV13-14, and flamers for Anti-Infantry. My main need is for Anti-Light Armor (AV12 or less) and Anti- Medium to Heavy Infantry, like Blood Angels VAS and Death Company. They also work wonders on Tyranid Warriors and Zoeys. My normal tactic is to use them to get early advantage with the Lascannons targetting enemy transports, then move in with the troops weilding the TL-PG for MEQ killing to support the CS inside. Once delivered, the tank is free to sit and shoot or roam for targets.

I use a lot of armor, so these guys are left alone a suprisingly large portion of my games, or only dealt with in the later turns once the damage is done.

Canonness Rory wrote:Get the assault cannon variant, it is better at everything than anything, ever.

Moving, yeah, but the LC/TL PG version will outdo it on a lot of targets standing still.

What hasn't been mentioned, though, is that if you take the LC/TL PG turret, you can absorb a Weapon Destroyed and still have a useful gun left. Because of that, I'd only ever take the TL HB (because of price) or LC/TL PG (for power and the survivability boost).

JD21290 wrote:(crusader for plenty of anti-infantry / tyrants / small vehicles) or a standard pattern for the anti-tank and MC..

Sadly, an assault cannon is still a better anti-vehicle weapon than a LC.
Given that fact, in addition to the fact that a crusader has ...
* Hurricane bolters
* Multi-Melta for 10 pts
* A greater transport capacity
* Frag Assault Launcher

There is no practical reason to take the standard variant over the Crusader. It's your best anti-vehicle and anti-infantry LR available.

labmouse42 wrote:There is no practical reason to take the standard variant over the Crusader. It's your best anti-vehicle and anti-infantry LR available.

Unless you're trying to kill something beyond 24".

Gornall wrote:Unless you're trying to kill something beyond 24".

Excally why I said practical reason

(Remember that a LR can move and shoot, so the effective range is 30")
For long range sniping, the LR is not the best tool for the job.

Heavy Bolter. It works well against Orks and Tyranids. Also if has even read the Tau codex he is using the disruption pods on the vehicles, they give them a cover save for 5 points, it's stupid not to take that. A Lascannon shoots once and could be reflected by that upgrade, where as the Heavy Bolter stands more of a chance. However it is more difficult to get glancing or penetrating hits, so against Orks and Nids take the Heavy Bolters. Against Tau take a mix of both of them depending on how many melta weapons you have. Don't try melta in a Tactical Squad though as you will have to be well within their rapid range to use it, so if you do use melta use multi-melta. Tau are also the best at hunting armour at the moment, so think about putting it on bikes or Land Speeders to get it where it needs to be as fast as possible.

Against the Orks though, I'd put some marines in a Rhino and drive near them shooting though the firing points. As long as there are no Power Klaws in the closest squad you can continue this until it eventually gets killed by a rockit. Just keep drive by shooting them until the tank is useless. It will preserve the squad for later in the game. Put a pintle mounted storm bolter on the rhino and it can shoot 4 times itself, not including the SM inside that could shoot Meltas, Flamers, Bolters etc out of it.

This works for Tyranids as well, unless you're facing a Fex or Genestealler heavy list. If you're versing one of those, take the Razorbacks and keep your army as one big block of shooting. Think like the IG players and keep the troops around vehicles like Vindicators and Predators to keep them running as long as possible, and spend a few points to get a Techmarine to fix up any weapon destroyed results. Unless they have their Fexes as CC orientated, then don't bother they will kill what they charge and the Techmarine will just be wasted points then. Any tank that can shoot should have extra armour.

A normal LR can also buy a MM.

Can threaten 52" and two Rhinos at that range.

Greater transport capacity is useless unless you play Terminators.

Back on topic, i like the TL HB Razorback, cheap. TL LC has a certain psychological effect, making it a big target.....

comparing the HB and LC razorbacks is an apples to oranges comparison. They have vastly different uses, and not just different targets.

The HB razorback is only 5pts more than a rhino, and is bought when you know you're either going to combat squad, or not ride in the rhino. Having a few chip in HB shots is nice, but dont' make the mistake of thinking that a twin linked HB is in any way effective anti-horde. The cheif advantage is that because the HB back is so cheap, you never really mind giving up it's shooting to move 12".

The LC back pays for it's fire power, and it should be used. While the LC struggles mightily against heavy armor, it's still a really nice anti-transport, anti-MC weapon. It's better used when bought seperatly for a squad that doesn't need to move much, or won't ride in it at all. Why give up a twinned LC?

I've found personally that Rbacks are a horrible half breed bitza, over sold and under powered. A useless tank really, with a lascannon it become the easiest vehicle to destroy with the biggest gun, it's like a shoot me and kill me sign, with a bolter it does't do enough damage to make up for it's limited troop carrying abillities. Buying a Rback was the worst decision I ever made. If its troop carrying with a kick you want, opt for Drop pods with a Deathwind launcher. It maybe immobile but, more troop capacity, more armor, more kick than a heavy bolter and less enough of a kick that not everyone is going to shoot at it straight away

Razorbacks main purpose should be transporting, as they are very fragile. I would keep them cheap by using Heavy Bolters, especially against ork/nids.

I Think they might be nice and cheap with TL HB, and a devi squad with 2 MMs and 2 anything else. Combat squad them, drive the MMs forward first turn, use the Razorback as mobile terrain, Tank shocker and shoot when possible. Get 2 MMs in a nice forward position.

Iron Gryphon wrote:I am in a bit of a pickle because my brother plays Orks, Tyranids and Tau.

So i am wondering on what i shound mount on my Razorbacks, heavy bolter or lascannons?

Leave the option to do both. I have magnetized my Stormlord/Shadowsword (I believe it is those two), so that I can put in the Vulcan Mega Bolter to tear up MEQs or other infantry, or if it is a vehicle-heavy game I can swap in the Volcano Cannon to take out vehicles, super-heavies, Titans, etc.

Do that same with your Razorback.

If I am going to leave my heavy bolters on there, to make up for the loss against mc, vehicles and the like, I was thinking about adding a hunter-killer missile, and some extra armor. What do you think?

Again Rbacks should be used as transport and kept as unthreatening as posible, hunter hiller missiles are going to just draw more fire, and extra armour isn't gonna save you forever