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What are people thinking for builds on these guys? I am thinking the best bet is just to go naked and charge them upfield.

What are some thoughts? Is it worth it to give them any gear and up their already hefty points cost?

Are these guys on par with Bloodcrushers? They cost more and do less, so i am thinking not at all, but what does Dakka think?

3x Thunderwolves: [180]
ThunderHammer

Thats four STR 10, rending attacks.

Two wolfguard battle leaders, runic armour, storm shield, power weapon (or is it needed) and equip the TH to a thunderwolf model.

Are they still rending attacks with the T.Hammer? I thought they become only t.hammer attacks at that point.

I was thinking 5 naked for 200 points, that is pretty savage and is going to get a second turn charge. Str 5 rending attacks can deal with most anything.

Reecius wrote:Are they still rending attacks with the T.Hammer? I thought they become only t.hammer attacks at that point.

I was thinking 5 naked for 200 points, that is pretty savage and is going to get a second turn charge. Str 5 rending attacks can deal with most anything.

Hrm...that's a good question.

The rending is part of the basic model's attacks, so it isn't a special weapon attack like using Wolf Claws or a Powerfist. However, the TH is a special weapon attack....

I had not thought about it, but I think it's worth a discussion.

Oh, edited for a PS:

I agree that 5 naked could be pretty rough on the charge. I'm thinking about the list I'm going to build including a 5 dog TWC unit running with/behind two full 15 dog units of regular wolves. Not sure how effective it'll be, but I really like the image of having 35 beasts screaming across at an enemy's flank with a guranteed turn two assault. That's only 440 points, but its 440 points that your opponent has to find something to do with in a very short amount of time.

Thuderwolves vrs blood crushers aren't really a fair comparison. Bloods crusher are superior at killing infantry in every way to Thunders, every way. WS5, S5 [b]Power weapons [/b]+ furious charge... But against vehicles Thunders really come out ahead. S5 Rending galore.

What is important to note is that unlike Blood Crushers, Thunders are NOT fearless and can be ID by S10, so watch out for Dreads and Warboss (obviously Demolisher cannons). This makes thunders less durable in a protracted fight, especially without an standard invul save. Yes you can get 3+/3+ with SS upgrade, but then you are 2:1 cost over blood crushers...

Also, Crusher aren't Calvary, so rely on "drop and walk" to get around. Thunders are Calvary and can spring forward to get a good distance charge.

my initial idea -> Run them in smaller units of either 1 or two so that can localize a lot of their damage vrs their unit physical size. Similar to the Lone Wolf Elite choice. Cruise Missile approach. Too many in a unit is asking for un welcome attention from superior CC units. Great for attacking smaller undersized units. Any small unit with S3 is GREAT fun for the Thunders, probably don't need any upgrades to knock them out.

Single Thunders w/ Thunder hammer + MAYBE SS are a great design for a cruise missile.
Single thunder w/hammer for cheaper cruise missile that might want to hide behind Rhino and other units.

A few standard thunders could act as a distraction unit that can cause damage. Heck, S5 Rending 5A is not joke. (dual armed)




Automatically Appended Next Post:
thuderwolf mount upgrade for IC remove rending from other CC weapons, I know that. I don't think it does for the Thuderwolves unit as they have the Rending special rules.

I was thinking for my Canis-Wing
5 TW with Storm Shields [Body Guard]
5 TW Nekid
5 TW Nekid

I was wondering about the Mark of the Wolfen
That’s a 2 in 6 chance of less attacks and a 3 in 6 chance of more

As far as ICs I was thinking a pair of Wolf Guard Battle Leaders one with Saga of the Warrior Born and the other Saga of the Beast Slayer

"Nekid"
Why? Get a powerfist in those squads for some sweet, sweet, sweet str 10 goodness at the very least.

Warrior Born is expensive and really over the top, in most cases you should be winning the next combat regardless, if not sooner.

Sanctjud wrote:"Nekid"
Why? Get a powerfist in those squads for some sweet, sweet, sweet str 10 goodness at the very least.

Warrior Born is expensive and really over the top, in most cases you should be winning the next combat regardless, if not sooner.

I guess I could throw in a FP or TH
As far as the Saga of the Warrior Born it may cost a lot, but if you run into a Horde you attacks could start to climb quickly 5 Attacks become 8 Attacks, 8 becomes 10 and so on. And just think of mixing it with MotW

"Also, Crusher aren't Calvary, so rely on "drop and walk" to get around. Thunders are Calvary and can spring forward to get a good distance charge. "

This.

To my mind, the better comparison is Thunders vs. Fiends.

Yeah, that is true, Crushers are much, much slower.

Fiends vs Thunderwolfs

Fiends; Same WS, no ranged attacks, Str5, T4, I5, Fearless, 5+ invulnerable, Rending , hit & run, deep strike as standard, 6man squad size. 30ppm

Thunder Wolves; Same WS, BS4 bolt-pistols, Str5, T5, I4, Ld8, 3+ armour save, Rending, Acute senses, Counter attack, Frag grenades, 5man squad size, Upgradeable, 50ppm

My money is on the fiends (but the Thunderwolf adds more fast response to a Space wolves army than Fiends to the Demon's) because of the invunerable, sheer mobility and fearlessness and ability to field a full 6 models.

Take 5 and

1 Powerfist
1 Thunderhammer
etc..

Take advantage of wound allocation rules. Keep them cheap and take a hell of a lot IE 2 full squads.

Brutally murder everything.

Builds on TWC? I have been thinking units of 3, one with a Powerfist (do you really need a TH when a PF gives you the same S10 attacks?)or one with a Stormshield (to allocate those pesky AP3 shots) and one with meltabombs (cheap wound allocation abuse!)

I am still working on my TWC conversions and when I get closer to finishing I will post some ideas on how I think they will be most effectively equipped.

I find that direct comparisons of unit A in one codex to unit B in another codex are generally not very fair, as different codecies have different strengths and weaknesses. for example, Ork boys are easily the best unit in the entire game, but people expect it, and no one really complains that they are overpowered.

Demogerg wrote:
Builds on TWC? I have been thinking units of 3, one with a Powerfist (do you really need a TH when a PF gives you the same S10 attacks?)or one with a Stormshield (to allocate those pesky AP3 shots) and one with meltabombs (cheap wound allocation abuse!)

Would work brilliantly with a minimum 3-drop pod force. 30 grey hunters & a couple of missile long fangs.

All credit to local mate 'Skell' for this list... don't know how effective it would be, by which I mean it's a one-shot-wonder, but it's in the same vein as Nob Bikers. All of the characters in the same unit as the Thunderwolves unit.

Hq
Wolf Lord, Runic Armour, Thunderwolf Mount, Wolftooth necklace, Thunderhammer, Stormshield
- 235pts

Wolf Lord, Runic Armour, Thunderwolf Mount, Wolftooth necklace, Wolf claw, Stormshield
- 225pts

Wolf Lord, Runic Armour, Thunderwolf Mount, Wolftooth necklace, Frost blade, Stormshield
- 230pts

Wolf Lord, Runic Armour, Thunderwolf Mount, Wolftooth necklace, Powerfist, Stormshield
- 230pts

920pts

Fast

Thunderwolf Cavalry, 5man, x5 Stormshields, Powerfist
- 425pts

Troops

Grey hunters, 6man, Meltagun, Razorback with Heavybolter
- 135pts

Grey hunters, 6man, Meltagun, Razorback with Heavybolter
- 135pts

Grey hunters, 6man, Meltagun, Razorback with Heavybolter
- 135pts

1750 TOTAL

Saldiven wrote:

Reecius wrote:Are they still rending attacks with the T.Hammer? I thought they become only t.hammer attacks at that point.

I was thinking 5 naked for 200 points, that is pretty savage and is going to get a second turn charge. Str 5 rending attacks can deal with most anything.

Hrm...that's a good question.

The rending is part of the basic model's attacks, so it isn't a special weapon attack like using Wolf Claws or a Powerfist. However, the TH is a special weapon attack....

I had not thought about it, but I think it's worth a discussion.

The rules for a thunderwolf say that the rending only works if you are not using a special weapon

TH Cav will lose a fight to assault Terminators and many other primary assault-only units. Giving them sick amounts of equipment only inflates their cost.

I say one Thundershield, one Powerfist, and you're done. Use them as a fast, mobile disruption unit to kill objective sitters and backfield armor.

Trying to turn them into Assault Terminators will simply bloat your list and they still won't do that well.

I don't agree with the whole 5 man Thunder wolfs its a large unit that most will focus fire on and if they have a vindicator your in trouble sure Storm shield but then your paying alot more. I'm gearing mine in squads of 3 with one Storm Shield and a Thunder Hammer for the Railgun or Las-cannon that gets thrown at them. But that won't happen because i want them reaching combat turn 1 or 2. First few games people will under estimate how far this unit can move. If you gear them 5 man with a power wep they will chew through a squad and take an entire enemy shooting phase next turn. If you gear them so they win combat in your oppenents assault phase you can then move them on to another unit in your turn.

Agreeing with the 3x Twolf, PF, SS:

1750 Wolves:
Grimnar, Rune Priest TDA, 5 TDA WG (1 w/ long fangs), 3x10 Grey Hunter, 6 Long Fangs, 3 Twolf, PF, SS

Why is everyone so afraid of the Demo Cannon?
Sure it instant kills, but is everyone bunching up the TWC?

If one spreads out and uses cover (terrain/other units like wolves/rhinos/Storm Shields) it's not so bad.

Plus, isn't it a good thing they are drawing that kind of fire away from other things?

3 Thunderwolf Calvary
-Thunderhammer
-Stormshield
Pts: 210

Just 3 equipped differently for wound allocation. Works well enough so far. Running 3 such units along with 3x Grey Hunters in Rhinos and 3x Long fangs with 5 missle launchers.

I'm skipping the shield currently...

3 t wolves

1 thunderhammer
1 meltabomb.

I'm almost thinking of dropping the thunderhammer down to power fist.

The thunderhammer is obviously a MC hunter, although it does have a special rule that is mildly beneficial when versing tanks. But since I don't have any storm shields and since most MCs are strength 6+, I don't think that CC with an MC is a safe place for TWC. So that is why I'm thinking to ditch the thunderhammer for 5 points.

If I were to pick up a storm shield or two, then thammer is the way to go for sure. Run down MCs and beat them down.

annnnddd... Shep has it right again!!

BTW, if you give TWC a Thunderhammer etc, you lose the rending. It's like having a Power Weapon and a Bolt Pistol then Upgrading the Bolt Pistol to a Power Fist, the 2 weapons no longer stack because they both have unique rules.

Now, if you want to play "MY GOD UNIT HAS RENDING THUNDERHAMMERS" then I would rules lawyer you the whole game untill you realized that doing that kinda thing is a dick move. (ppsst. having cavalry with T(5) not even T4(5) is already godly don't push it)

You always want meltabombs, and above a single TWC model, you want 1 TH or PF in there. You don't really want many special weapons because you lose rending.

EzeKK wrote:annnnddd... Shep has it right again!!

BTW, if you give TWC a Thunderhammer etc, you lose the rending. It's like having a Power Weapon and a Bolt Pistol then Upgrading the Bolt Pistol to a Power Fist, the 2 weapons no longer stack because they both have unique rules.

Now, if you want to play "MY GOD UNIT HAS RENDING THUNDERHAMMERS" then I would rules lawyer you the whole game untill you realized that doing that kinda thing is a dick move. (ppsst. having cavalry with T(5) not even T4(5) is already godly don't push it)

You always want meltabombs, and above a single TWC model, you want 1 TH or PF in there. You don't really want many special weapons because you lose rending.

I would say for every 2 models grab a PF or TH. Also, try and keep wound allocation in your favor at all times.

So..

1 TWC - Meltabombs
2 TWC - PF/TH ; Meltabombs
3 TWC - PF/TH ; Meltabombs ; Nothing
4 TWC - PF; TH ; Meltabombs ; Nothing
5 TWC - PF; TH; Meltabombs ; Meltabombs ; Nothing

just ran some numbers on meltabombs versus rear armor 10. Long story short, slightly more pens then five str5 rending attacks, but less overall results. Rear armor 14 that isn't living metal its obviously a large margin better.

my final verdict. Worth 5 points, but if your list is 5 points over, don't hesitate to cut them.

(This only pertains to the two man TWC unit. If you have three models the 5 point upgrade does WAY more than just increase your chance to hurt a vehicle)

Yeah, the meltabombs and there MAINLY for if you get stuck in VS. a Walker such as: Soulgrinder, Dreadnought, Ironclad etc... And want an easier way out lol...

I dont have the codex on hand, but i believe there is a restriction to the number of special weapons you can add (and i think its just 1, but all of them can equip meltabombs)

this was why in my post i said either a powerfist OR a stormshield, and meltabombs.

This is also why I would only run units of 3.

3 units of 3 with powerfist and meltabomb would be pretty ace IMO.

We will see once batreps and experience starts to roll in.

Demogerg wrote:I dont have the codex on hand, but i believe there is a restriction to the number of special weapons you can add (and i think its just 1, but all of them can equip meltabombs)

this was why in my post i said either a powerfist OR a stormshield, and meltabombs.

This is also why I would only run units of 3.

3 units of 3 with powerfist and meltabomb would be pretty ace IMO.

We will see once batreps and experience starts to roll in.

Is there? I thought you could give multiple, let me check up on that I keep messing up on this damn new codex

you can only have one special weapon in a TW cav squad, but as many storm shields as you want.

However, you do not lose rending if you take a special weapon. The part about losing rending is only for the TW Mount wargear. There is nothing in the TWC saying they lose rending if they take a special. So you will have rending S10 powerfist.

Demogerg wrote:i believe there is a restriction to the number of special weapons you can add (and i think its just 1, but all of them can equip meltabombs)

You should believe in yourself more often. One member may be equiped with a PW, WC, FB, PF, or TH. Any member may exchange thier BP for a PP, SS, or BG. Any member may take a MB.

As for running them naked...WS 4 = 50% of hitting + 1/6% chance or rending on the wound. So each wolf has a 50% chance of getting one rend on the charge. So a unit of 4 with 24 attacks will statistically get 2 rends...which may get consolidated onto one model. Comin from a nid player, I would buy the friggin PF.