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Who is all around braver and facing the worst, the bairly armoured undertrained guards man or the hulking imortal marine. Both fight great enamys and see great hard ship whitch force is braver? Begin the debat.

LD 7, or LD 8?
You tell me...

no i mean fluff wis ewho has to deal with the most and show the most cyragae in the face of imposobility, pritty musch who has it harder

Well Guard are forced to fight more often but when things get really hairy they call in the Sphuess Muhreenz.
So I'd still say they are braver just because they fight the worst of the worst and can't call for help.

Guardsmen becuase they are just normal men and women fighting the horrors of the universe.

Mind you i did say Guardsmen not conscripts or penal troopers they something else. Marines have their centuries of extensive training, amazing armor and weaponry plus they are different; they dont feel pain cuz of the psyco conditioning who wouldnt feel confident?
now fighting a demon with only a basic mass produced lasgun and your buddies next to you that takes frijoles!

...serious thread?

Marines know no fear, guardsmen are brave enough to fight 8 foot tall killing machines. I'd say guardsmen are more actually brave.

Guardsmen have more bravery, but Marines actually solve the problem.

The Emperor, in all his great wisdom declared, about his mighty Space Marines, "And They Shall Know No Fear..."

The Guard charge bravely ahead, mostly, because of the nice Commisar with a gun in their backs.

Guardsman I would consider 'braver' and more 'courageous', because of their capacity to feel fear from facing all the great horrors they must face. They overcome the fear, either cause of the Commisar aiming a pistol at their heads, or for other reasons, and thus achieve true bravery and courage.

Space Marines, as we all know, know no fear, for they are fear incarnate, etc etc due to hypno/psycho-conditioning and all that. So on a technical level, if they cant feel fear, they have no fear to overcome, and thus arent actually brave or courage. They just face what needs to scourged with holy bolter and chainsword.

Conscripts on the other hand... heh... LD 5, as different from a grot as a guardsman is from a space marine.

Cryonicleech wrote:Guardsmen have more bravery, but Marines actually solve the problem.

Hey! I resent that!

But still...QFT.

Since SMs are brainwashed to feel no fear, clearly they aren't any braver than an inanimate object.

Even if they could feel fear, Guardsmen would still win.

To me bravery is about standing up for your beliefs/self/others despite any personal risk. For Guardsmen their risk is greater because they have a lot less to protect themselves. Greater the risk, greater the bravery.

Then again, sometimes accepting that kind of risk is just being foolish.

Of course, you have to keep in mind that Space Marines were braver than the average human BEFORE they got buffed up. And although they are rigourous and all BUT fearless, they can still feel terror.

They are not inhuman. They are not machines. In all honesty they face up to terrors that would leave men cringing crawling on the floor in utter shock.

It's really like comparing which is better, the SM or the Grey Knights? Grey Knights are just better. Not inhuman, not a bloody servitor, they just have that little bit more weights worth in gonads.

Guardsmen of course. They rely on paper thin armour and flashlights to face the same enemies Space Marines do in their tank like armour with effective Grenade Launcher guns.

The OC-D

I can't accept that a super-human protected by power armour, who is psychologically unable to feel fear, who gets rapidly inserted into weak points of the enemy, and whisked out quickly because he is too valuable to risk in a stand-up fight, is as brave as a guy with BALLS OF STEEL.

Marines are braver.........when stairs are not involved.

This reminds me of an old joke of a Cannoness, Chapter Master, and a Commissar or something telling their troopers to jettison themselves out of the spaceship.
The SoB and the Space Marine jump out. But the IG trooper refuses. "Now that's Brave."

Real men don't need power armor and we fight with our reinforced t-shirt and flashlight faithfully.Besides Imperial Guard has standard issue steel ball,marines don't have them and Ollanus Pius the guy with Mars-grade forged adamantium balls faced Horus with his flashlight without shi ing in his pants or mewling like a wounded Grox.Now that's brave but GW have deleted him and replaced him with another space marine terminator and later finnaly with custodes.Yeah GW scre everything up.

Well my two cents are that it all depend on the fluff you read. It you read a Guard novel them they are the braves if it Marines then they are the one kicking butt.

It's easy to me. To be brave is to face your fears. The whole "And they shall know no fear" thing makes me think that they can't be brave.

As much as I love SM, I agree that being the hardiest souls (often primitive savages) plucked from their world, genetically altered, trained, and mentally conditioned, not to mention in powered armour, are not really the same as IG.

The IG are just men (although a basic soldier in WH40K is probably total man-sauce compared to ours), so they fear, they have doubts, and they have basic weapons and armour. They are expected to face huge green monsters that love nothing but to fight, ravening insect-alien giants that want to eat them, soulless metal machines, and even more terrifying demons.

Sure, some have to be nudged forward by the commissar, but then there are those that march forward themselves, bravely to death or victory.

IvanTih wrote:Real men don't need power armor and we fight with our reinforced t-shirt and flashlight faithfully.

Guard because they go to war, with light armour and no super-powers, and still fight the same monsters, often the ones that are 2 or 3 maybe even 10 times thier size. Go guard!

Of course, Guard have whole armies backing them up, while SM are pretty much on thier own. Apart from orbital bonbonbardments.

Yeah, but Marines have power armor and cybernetic enchancement. Guard are as human as you and me given a flashlight and a shirt and pushed off a plane into a horde of tyranids. Although marines seem to go traitor alot more then Guard do.

Gaurdsmen FTW

@Shadowbrand: Not really. It's just that marines have thier own navy and so aren't in as much trouble when loyalists rock up to purge them.

I understand the appreciation that guardsmen recieve, but you should keep in mind that SM are not fearless. And they are often in the fiercest fighting against the fiercest foe. Not for them the cleansing of some rebels on some bygone backwater planet.

@EF I guess with cultists and how most of them were once Guardsmen.
As well I see were your coming with Marines but they have so much more then Guardsmen.
And more often then not there as Marines there are Guardsmen with them. *Major Battles, Dawn of War*

Ollanius Pius decided to try and kill horus in a 1 on 1 fight. that takes ballz