Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

Well I got a spare 315 points in my list and 3 heavy support slots open...

my question is which is better and why?

Zzap gun: Auto shakes, can get higher than S8, Ap2...

Kannon: S8 Ap3, cheaper, versatile with S4 Ap 5...

Kannons use small blasts right?
Oh wait, not with the higher S blast.
They could be ok versus IG or Orks etc. horde.
But (if I would just use them) I would rather use Zzap guns. Lots of potential, and most important, the nice little thing called randomness!

I don't remember seeing anything about Zzap guns auto-shaking.

Could you elaborate?

Kannons are much better. Theyre great for infantry killing, especailly with a unit of 3. They're not that bad at tank killing either.

Kannonz are better than Zzap Guns, but Kans and Dreads and Battlewagons are better than all of the gun battery choices

"When Zzap guns cause a glancing or penetrating hit against vehicles, Zzap guns automaticcaly cause crew shaken in addition to any other effects." (Pg 51, Ork Codex)

Roll for strength:

Aww.

grankobot wrote:Roll for strength:

Aww.

That's the main problem with Zzap guns. However the likelihood is a S of 7.

If you are set on having big gunz then go with kannons, they are cheaper (by alot) they have the option of using the blast (I don't use it alot but there are plenty of applications) but most importantly you know what your strength is going to be, this is really important for an army that relies so much on luck, also the strength is higher then the average Zzap gun shot. I would however suggest forgoing big gunz interly and buying some killa kanz as they are the gak. Were as big gunz never really do that much.

kannonz better in the new book. zzap gunz were more fun when they autohit.

i remember being really pumped during the rumors of the new ork book when they were rumored to get melta at half range, i would totally take some then.

I personally prefer Zzap gunz.

But then, any orks I play get as much random as possible. So it might explode and make me lose, but it might also remove your terminator command squad from the game while popping your land raider with ease. And teleporting a diminshed squad of boyz onto your objective on the last turn because it wanted to.

Mek w/SAG, Zzap gunz, wierdboy. Thats 3 units that can just roll a random number and win the entire match alone. Or remove themselves and some allies from play.

I say lobba or cannon. I'm sorry but zzap gun has been nerfed to hell, and its just not happening. Killing armor should be left to the nobs with powerclaws and not artillery. I like the lobba for 2 reasons, G48" and str 5. Great for causing a bunch of saves. See even if you have ammor runts your looking at a still 50 to hit, and a 16 percent chance to pierce armor 14. No its not happening at all. The kannon is a bit more reliable in terms of str, but still got a 16 percent chance. No i am sorry i would rather have 4 s9 nob hits on somthing than 1 bs3 16 percent chance to glance on average.

See what a lot of people forget is using a pinning weapons is fatal to shooting armys. I mean you make that crisis team go to ground, and you run up on them and take em out. Their leadership is usually 8 or 7. So its worth the try. You can do this to anything thats not fearless. I have made to space wolves devistator squads go to ground and my boyz ran them over. They only shot 1 time the whole game, and spent 2 turns on the ground. Yeah that lobba was well worth it. Hell if you get enough of them and pin enough units. That means no shooting next turn on you.

Looted Wagons all the way!

And I take 3 Zaap'a, but you need the full unit of gretchin with any artillery unit or else they just die immediately.

Zaaps are also cheap so you may as well take them, then you dont have to rely on them cuz uve got looted wagons or a battle wagon.

I dont like kans but I have them, theyre ok when you get them in and go CC, but people just like to shoot them and theyre a little expensive for the weaponary they get.

Pinning is a really good tactic tho. I use it im my DE army all the time, Terrorfex!

I have always used kannons even though they have been nerfed a little since the last edition when they would roll 2d6 and take the better for pen. I like the versatility of solid shot and slug, the 36" range is good and now with BS 3 they hit more often. Whats not to like for a ~100 point unit?

i like a small amount of randomness in my games
for example a weirdboy, a sag and a zzap gun would be too much for me
lobbas are fun...i like to guess range it entertains me

Kannonz are better than Zzap gunz because there is no random strengh. The kannon also has blast which helps against infantry. The Zzap gun could also kill the grots with it if it rolls over strengh 10. That would suck. I would go for a battlewagon or killa kanz or a deff dread. they have alot more...better...weapon choces than the big gunz. The battlewagon can hold a boyz mob too.

Repeating what some people have said, take kannons if you're totally set on them but i dunno why you'd wanna. Why do you have 315 spare points and no BatteWagons?! They're way better because they're mobile, high friggin armor, and you can put better guns on them, like the KILLKANNON. (KILLKANNON= MEQ DEATH) either that or kill kanz. max squad w/ kustom mega blasta's kill everything, especially my terminators. I say no to Deff Dreads though. I dont like them personally.

Now that it is mentioned about the pinning... Lobbas are beginning to sound good... maybe this thread should have been Zzap Guns vs Lobba vs Kannon....

Ya and the lobba's scatter is nice; my friend fields a battery of them regularly and he thinks its nice to know that if they miss they may still hit! They can't really be compared if it's anti-vehicle you're looking for tho...

Just to be the clench pen for all of you zzap gun players out there. I just got done playing a guy running 2 squads of 2 zzap guns. 1 of them connected the whole game to my crisis suits, and not to any armor at all. It was saved of course. Honestly they are terrible, terrible, now that i have seen them in action. GW didnt not know what the hell they were doing. They need an instant hit to be effective at all.

Reasons why they did poorly.
1. When rolling for str many many times they didnt have enough to break 13 front armor. In which case the shot end there, without a hit roll, or a armor pen. roll. Very demobilizing.
2. When they did most of the time they had to roll a 4 to hit, 50 percent chance. Followed by a 5 or 6, 33 percent,16 percent respectively.
3. Only 1 shot. The odds are heavly against you when trying to hit anything over 10 armor. Heavily. I even think some of the math that has been posted in this topic is a little high for averages.

Reason where i think they will work. Killing termies 1 at a time or Monstrous creatures.
You might be able to roll 11 or 12 and kill multiple wound creatures out right.

My choice is the lobba for the pinning. In same said game hit 2 squads of boyz with pulse carbine and airfragmentaion projecter. From a shas'el and drones. They were at 7 models and 8 models. Both were pinned and resulted in them being wiped out on the following turn, cuaseing no damage at all on any other squad.

Is pinning worth it you bet your ass it is, but know what you are fighting because a lot of units are fearless

Zzzzaps are just simply horrible.

Their intended purpose is to hurt tanks and most of the time (i.e. average str 7 + the greater number of nukbers that are less than 8 then are above it) it will be worse than the kannon at that job. More pts, less effective. off.

The only time it even remotely competes with the kannon is if you fight a lot of nidzilla. At which pt it is still a crap gun but a marginably less crap gun.

Kannons and Lobbas are both great actually but suffer from a few shared problems.

1. Being fragile as hell
2. competing for slots with killa kanz, battlewagons, looted wagons, etc

At 20pts for a BS3 str 8 r36" shot with an optional blast you can't really go wrong. 3 pts for a re-roll and you're laughing. Ever had 20pts spare? you could do a lot worse than adding a random kannon. Most opponents will ignore it and it only has to destroy one rhino to earn its points back and have a profound effect on the game.

Sadly as you add more they become less pts efficient. 3 kannons as a unit has 3x the killing power sure but now they have become a threat opponents will target so you need to add the bully and a few spare grots, reducing the pts efficiency. Still you can put down a decent unit that will stand as one of the better anti-tank options available to orks for less than a 100pts. that's pretty disposable and pretty nice and I am a fan of kannons.

Lobbas are a great gun too but they don't fill a niche like kannonz do. Str5, blast, indirect fire (which makes them a ton more survivable) and pinning for 20pts a gun! That's an insanely good deal. and unlike the kannonz they scale better because you can hide them and don't have to worry about return fire.

the problem is that they are an answer to a non-existant problem. Orks are already stuffed to the gills with anti-infantry options. We have a billion attacks, the godlike shooting or shootaz and lootaz, a suffusion of big shootas. Honestly killing troops is not an issue for orks.

Killing vehicles is though, which is why the kannonz are more attractive to me than the lobbas.


Unless you are dead set on the pinning (it can be nice) I'd take kannonz or just not bother with big guns at all.

I think that kannons are better then both lobbas and Zzap gunz, plus they are less points. Lobbas are cool, but I don't really like them due to their lack of strength and ap.

Im actually starting to prefer lobba's now!

Just liked the Zaap cuz I made some out of broken light bulbs so I used them, but I'm gonna try and scratch build sum lobba type things now.

I have had much more success with Kannons simply because the cheaper cost lets me get extra crew.

Theyre basically space marine missile launchers like.

Cant go wrong with that!

But I like the lobbing gak from behind cover business.

Yah, ever since they took away the auto hit action, I'm goin with the kannon. Spendin all those points and not having a single hit all freakin game.

Blitz Backlash wrote:Yah, ever since they took away the auto hit action, I'm goin with the kannon. Spendin all those points and not having a single hit all freakin game.

I love how it's uselessly noted that it autohits in the BRB, like they'd meant it to be in the codex and just forgot. And of course without it, the weapon is pretty much garbage.
Stay classy GW

Maybe they did just forget....... That'd explain it. My space marine friend loves the new zzap gun rules.....bostard

As an artillary battery, i would go with kannons.
For 2 reasons mainly.

1: Stable stats. You know what it will be doing each turn.
2: The kannon does not kill its krew

If it were not for #2 i would take them simply for the nice chance of a S10 shot, but that kinda ruins it for me.
On vechles i would take the zzap (ok, its now only BS2), but for a standard battery i would go kannons al the way.

Dont take big gunz. They're one of the worst choices in the codex. If you have the points spare take killa kanz or battlewagons or even more boyz. All will serve you better than a small amount of BS3 guns.