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i really like the idea of them and can see there tactical advantages but with only 3 elite choices should i take them over burnas or lootas coz the nobz are staying!
also kommando nob with powerclaw or snikrot?
has anyone tried and tested the kommandos who can talk me into it?

Let me ask you this. Do you play orks? Theres your answer about kommandos. 15 boyz, with snikrot, who can walk in from wherever they want. As undercosted as boyz are they can make their points back just making your opponent get away from the board edges.

They can take out those annoying enemies that keep your advance stuck behind a wall of fire, or anything that doesn't want to get near your main line. I remember my big thanksgiving game at Sentrybox, my Kommandoes just kame in and cleaned up a bunch of long fangs and then moved on to another player's smurfs, and no one noticed them until it was too late. By time everyone looked back to the far side of the board, the longfangs were gone, and the kommandos were on the move.

They're really a wonderful unit.

Definitely take them. My brother takes 15 with snikrot when he plays me, and they do big damage every time. Snikrot has taken out my predator and a rhino before, and lots of tac's. TAKE BURNA'S. Whatever you do, take all the burnas you can on that squad. Its the best use you'll ever get out of them, i swear.

Just curious how the commandos line up compared to 5 deffkopters with 3-5 buzzsaws and maybe twin linked rokkits? The scout rule seems better to me compared to infiltrate.

its not the infiltrate you have to take snikkrot and use his special deployment rule i use him in every list i run as orks, people who arent suspecting him will not know what him them. the people that do will fear the table edges

They are nice. I take 10 - 15 (depending on the points left) with snikrot and 2 burnas. The burnas are good vs soft guard and tau and such, but dude, they are power weapons in combat if you diidn't flame with them.

Snikrot and 2 powerweapons on the charge just kill oblits, devestators, or really most any single support unit. They rarely make it past the initial unit vs good players, so choose your assault wisely.

IMO, kommandos and 2 x 15 lootas are nearly mandatory. My three elite slots ensure that my boys don't get pie plated on the way in and that there is something to assault when they get there.

zachwho wrote:its not the infiltrate you have to take snikkrot and use his special deployment rule i use him in every list i run as orks, people who arent suspecting him will not know what him them. the people that do will fear the table edges

Yeah, but isn't that scout-light? Kommandos just get to come in on any table edge, as all scouts can, but they don't get to make a scout move, much less a jetbike scout move. Besides, no PK with snikkrot. Idk...I kinda like deffkopters in that respect...the option for lots of PKs and lots of twin-linked rokkits!

Snikrot lets them come in any table edge, including your opponents long table edge. Normal outflank is just the short ones.

Not to mention that outflank is a lot more random.

Obviously, Kommandos w/ Snikrot are great, though I must say I miss the PK NOb that usually comes with a bundle of Ork boyz.

However, what about Kommandos w/o Snikrot? Obviously, they would still have a PK Nob, which is nice, but is it worth it for the Random Outflank? What about using the Infiltrate special Rules? Could it work with SpeedFreaks?

Reason I'm asking is for obvious strategic discussion, and also because I may be playing in a tourney in December where Named Characters aren't permitted.

So please, share with me your experiences with Kommandos without Snikrot to lead them.

Kommandos without Snikrot aren't particularly useful in my book.

To the last poster with an upcoming tournament and no special characters....want to win? Take a kitted warboss, a mek with a KFF, a battlewagon full of burna boyz, and as many trukks full of boyz with a nob and powerklaw in there as you can fit into whatever your point list is. I add red paint and boarding planks to every trukk as a default. That whole mess of vehicles, with their 4+ cover saves and long range delivery capability can be used as a wrecking ball to smack into a piece of an enemy army at your discretion, when and where you want to. If you're playing 1850, every game should be your 1850 smacking into 1000 points or so of the enemy, wiping it out in a full round of combat, then turning around about the time your opponent realizes the game is now 1850 vs >1000 and they're boned.

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To the OP: Snikrot+14 Kommandos with 2 Burnas serve a couple purposes.

1. To make the enemy deploy away from board edges to try avoiding him, thus being closer to your main army and closer to assaulting or shooting.

2. To krunch into the rear of the juiciest target, or to multi-assault several tanks that hopefully haven't moved.

Snikrot can open up AV10 rear armor quite handily, and for a "take-all-comers" list, you're bound to run into mechanized IG or Tau sooner or later, making this unit absolute gold.

After reading this thread, I deffinitly want to pick up some Kommandos now. I have a question though, is it all about burnaz? or can rokkits be usefull in a kommando mob too?

Norwulf wrote:After reading this thread, I deffinitly want to pick up some Kommandos now. I have a question though, is it all about burnaz? or can rokkits be usefull in a kommando mob too?

Hitting on 5's makes me doubt it

Interesting thread

Its all about burnas.

Kommandos are freakin' awesome, inasmuch for what they do for the rest of your army as for their own performance. Keep in mind though, that even with their free stikkbombs and move through cover, even on the charge they're still I3, so if you assault some marines, you're going to go second. In doing so, you're going to take casualties; how many depends on what you assaulted. If combat is going to last for multiple rounds, you *need* to make sure that the threat of what you're fighting is minimized because after the first charge, your furious charge is gone and you're STR3 again.

Burnas are the answer to that. They count as power weapons in close combat and are the best way to make sure you come out on the winning side of an assault. My kommandos don't shoot half the time. The turn Snikrot comes onto the board is generally the turn that I Waaaugh! meaning that my kommandos are probably fleeting during their shooting phase to *get* closer to what they want to assault. If you take two rokkit boyz, you still have BS2, and more often than not won't hit or do anything.

If you want anti-tank, it comes in four forms:

1. TL Rokkits on DeffKoptas that either scout move 24" up the table pre-game to be in the opponent's junk turn 1, or that reserve and come out of reserve on a flank to get side/rear armor shots (possibly followed up by an assault on a vehicle).

2. Rokkit Buggies that count as vehicles instead of T5 models. Unless being shadowed by a Mek with a KFF, I prefer the DeffKoptas.

3. Tank-Bustas: For games that are 2k+, I find these guys fething awesome. I stick them in a battlewagon with a couple of bomb squigs and jet them up towards tanks/land raiders.

4. My personal favorite: Nobs with powerklaws (or Ghazghkull or Warbosses), preferably in a vehicle, preferably with a boarding plank. Sending a trukk boy squad against a tank and blowing it up almost invariably results in lost boyz. Doing so against a land raider or transport invariably results in lost boys, then shooting and a counter-assault by whatever was inside for even worse results. People will tell you not to make trukks too expensive; mine pretty much always have red paint, reinforced rams, and boarding planks. Red Paint for an extra 1" gets me into close combat faster....I wouldn't consider vehicles without it. Reinforced Rams let me tank shock later on when the trukk is empty and gets weapon destroyed, and more importantly, lets me reroll my dangerous terrain tests, of which there seems to always be a 1 waiting to happen. Boarding planks let one ork (read: Nob with powerklaw) attack as if disembarked and charging without having to get out of the vehicle. I quite often take grabbin' klaws for my battlewagons too.

Ala, the drive by powerklaw. A Nob can drop 4 STR9 powerklaw attacks on your target vehicle without getting out, and if you blow up the vehicle...so what? It can't hurt your boys! Ghazghkull can drop 7 STR10 powerklaw attacks on a drive by. I have no hesitation about rolling a battlewagon up next to a land raider, dropping a boarding plank onto it, and having Ghazghkull start swinging on it. And if the trukk/battlewagon you're doing all this swinging from gets shot up in the next shooting phase....that's ok. If it gets wrecked, you can deploy out the other side of it and probably make the enemy on the other side NOT get to assault you. If it gets exploded...and ramshackles onto kaboom, you can dump your orks out in whatever formation in the ruins (which is a crater/wreckage and 4+ cover save), to try avoiding getting assaulted (you always want the assault), or at least make the enemy assault into cover.

it sucks that they only have 6+ save

BAN wrote:it sucks that they only have 6+ save

No, not really. Even as Kommandos they're still incredibly cheap, and if you don't suicide them into something they can't begin to handle, they will make their points back.

MORE importantly though is the affect they have on enemy deployment. This cheap little squad can make your enemy deploy in such a fashion as to let you assault an extra turn early. Think on that for a moment. How much damage can an entire enemy army do to you in one turn? Getting a turn 2 assault instead of turn 3 is incredibly potent. Having the ability to deal with isolated firebases is incredibly potent.

I played an IG player who responded to my mechanized list by deploying his tank line on the left side of the field and a squadron of collossus(?) on the opposite corner such that I was either going to have to ignore his army to go for the things that were pounding me, ignore the things pounding on me to go after his army, or split my forces to deal with his split forces. I ignored the collosuses, had Snikrot deal with them when he came out and since they don't move to fire their large blast ridiculous stuff, I got free hits on his back armor all day long and they both got toasted.

Do you need them? No, definitely not...but they are good to have in an ork list, 14-15 Kommandos lead by snikrot are a great way to mess with your opponent's head (and when they do show up they cause a lot of chaos!)

And if you take them, take two burnas. Because they have snikrot, they have no power fist, but they can still take power weapons which can swing combat your way, alternatively they can burn (and shoot) light infantry to death fairly easily.

I love my Kommandos, I have never failed to find them a good target, and then either tie it up, or wipe it out. And always remember, if your opponent tries to counter, and there's nothing inside 12" of the board edge....you've got your once per game WAAAGH you can use to reposition them.

The oh-so-common snik trick is great at times, but when facing either a heavily armoured or combat orientated army it falls flat.

Kommandos jump out - cant kill the tanks.
Kommandos jump out - get butchered by a better combat unit.

to be honest, i like the idea of the unit, and it looks good on paper, but i would rather spend the points on a unit i would get more use from, rather than an expensive kamakazi unit.

The thing about a mech list is there will always be a soft target in the middle of everything. Mech-marines, maybe they have a combat squad hiding on an objective? Maybe a predator tank you can punch in the rear? For mech IG every single one of their tanks is AV10 on the rear aside from certain LR variants. Even Mech Eldar are bound to have some kind of scoring unit trying to hide (like maybe a jetbike squad) or some kind of fire support (Guardian squad with a lance, some war-walkers, or maybe even Dark Reapers)

Of course he can't kill something like a land raider or a Daemon Prince, so don't send him at one!

starbomber109 wrote:The thing about a mech list is there will always be a soft target in the middle of everything. Mech-marines, maybe they have a combat squad hiding on an objective? Maybe a predator tank you can punch in the rear? For mech IG every single one of their tanks is AV10 on the rear aside from certain LR variants. Even Mech Eldar are bound to have some kind of scoring unit trying to hide (like maybe a jetbike squad) or some kind of fire support (Guardian squad with a lance, some war-walkers, or maybe even Dark Reapers)

Of course he can't kill something like a land raider or a Daemon Prince, so don't send him at one!

QFT.

To the poster before this who thinks that kommandos fall flat against heavily armored or combat oriented lists....

1. Heavily Armored: Have you been reading? AV10 isn't scary to Kommandos on the charge, and multi-assaulting a couple of tanks whenever I can is useful. Even if my boyz only glance a bunch of times, I'll get stunned, weapon destroyed, maybe an immobililzed result....those are all worthwhile. Weapon destroy a predator a couple times and its useless. Weapon destroy a basilisk, or collosus, or hammerhead, or vindicator just once and you can ignore it the rest of the game unless its kill points.

And against a heavily armored foe, it isn't Snikrot vs their whole army. Personally, I'll have trukks and battlewagons swinging powerklaws off of boarding ramps on all those vehicles, and by turn 2 or 3 when Snikrot comes in, there will always be vehicles destroyed and troops on the ground waiting to get Snikrot-ed.

2. Combat Oriented: Are you kidding? What are Orks then? Dancing daisies? Sorry to sound like I'm ridiculing you, but I am. Terminator armies don't scare me. Why don't you math-hammer out what happens when a kommando squad and two burnas crash into terminators? Or when a trukk boy squad with a nob and powerklaw crash into terminators? Or were you talking about space marines? Do the same thing.

Get out ~16" of tape measure and walk around your table. I'm serious, go do it. It's a ridiculous amount of coverage.
On an average waagh roll (4) you can assault anything you want in that area the turn you arrive.
Now imagine trying to deploy with that hanging over you.

In any game with a high enough point cost to bring a decent sized unit with snikrot, they can earn their points back easily.
Whether you want to use them is entirely up to how you play, but if you bring them they certainly won't be a liability.

thanks all, some great advice

Dashofpepper wrote:Kommandos without Snikrot aren't particularly useful in my book.

To the last poster with an upcoming tournament and no special characters....want to win? Take a kitted warboss, a mek with a KFF, a battlewagon full of burna boyz, and as many trukks full of boyz with a nob and powerklaw in there as you can fit into whatever your point list is. I add red paint and boarding planks to every trukk as a default. That whole mess of vehicles, with their 4+ cover saves and long range delivery capability can be used as a wrecking ball to smack into a piece of an enemy army at your discretion, when and where you want to. If you're playing 1850, every game should be your 1850 smacking into 1000 points or so of the enemy, wiping it out in a full round of combat, then turning around about the time your opponent realizes the game is now 1850 vs >1000 and they're boned.

Hey Dash,

This sounds like an appealing idea that I might just have to try out.

This is a 1500 pt Tourney. No Named Characters because the people who run it are afraid there will be too many cheesy lists involving the likes of Eldarch and such. I guess this rule could be to my advantage because in general I don't use named characters, except Snikrot.


Let me give you my list so far.

HQ
Big Mek w/ KFF, Cybork Body Kombi-Skorcha 100 pts.

Warboss w/ PK Cybork, Kombi-Skorcha 100 pts.

Troops.
20x Shoota Boyz, 2 Big Shootas and Nob w/ PK and Bosspole 170 pts. (in BW)
20x Shoota Boyz, 2 Big Shootas and Nob w/ PK and Bosspole 170 pts. (in BW)
11x Slugga Boyz, Nob PK Trukk w. Red Paint and Ram. (+ HQ) 151 pts.
11x Slugga Boyz, Nob PK Trukk w. Red Paint and Ram. (+ HQ) 151 pts.

Heavy
BattleWagon- Grot Riggers, Deffrolla, Big Shoota 120 pts
BattleWagon- Grot Riggers, Deffrolla, Big Shoota 120 pts


So far thats 1082 pts. Leaving me with 428 pts.

I was thinking of taking Lootas and Kommandos but I could also opt for Stormboyz, Burna Boyz, Bikers (Nob or Warbikers), Deffkoptas, Gretchin and a Looted Wagon (possibley for a cheap Transport).

So what would you build given those options?

It seems to me that everyone here loves kommandoes, personaly, I could live without them, without snikrot they are worth shitall, with him they can kill one unit, be it tank or infantry it plays out the same, you slace them beside it using snikrot's rule, you shoot a little (for what it's worth) use the burna wiche I hope you brought, then charge and kill them, they then get ass masacred by every weapon the enemy can shoot at them, they do have applications, like killing isolated units as mentioned above, or getting huge units tied up in combat, but at almost twice the cost of boys, I say meh. Defantly have them beacuse whenthey work, do they ever, but if your enemy plays "castle" don't even try.

The idea that a squad of kommandos is only going to kill one unit and end its utility is the short view. Then again, its all been explained here and if you're convinced....

Darkzephyr wrote:
HQ
Big Mek w/ KFF, Cybork Body Kombi-Skorcha 100 pts.

Read the big mek wargear selection section again. I see people make that mistake all the time

See I don't understand when people whine about a unit being destroyed right after it destroys one. I once talked to a shop owner and we were discussing the merits of taking a 5 man fire dragon squad in a wave serpent. He said it was pointless since the exchange, for a tank or something, would cost about the same points and your unit would be destroyed.

Later on I realized he was an idiot because at least my unit was able to do its job while the one destroyed wasn't able to do its job.

If you run Kommandos, run with snikrot, also always have them with 2 burnas. They count as PKs if you dont shoot them. This unit will almost always ambush on and kill a unit out right, and more often, kill multiple units. Just keep them in melee and dont worry about losing them.

They are great for causing your opponent to react and freak, trying to kill them. I one time messed up my ambush and didn't come in close enough to tie up some tau broadsides, and ran over some all, but 2 fire warriors, which they made there leadership role, rolled a 2, needed a 4, dam, And he assaulted me his turn with another squad of FW which I killed them all with regular wounds. Long story short 2 12 man squads of fw died and the broadsides, but by then he had so many boys in his face the game was already over.

Gold tooth Jerry wrote:If you run Kommandos, run with snikrot, also always have them with 2 burnas. They count as PKs if you dont shoot them.

Just to clarify: they're power weapons, not PKs.