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I'm not against kamakazie units, orks have plenty of them. I simply find that kommandoes very rarely (in my experience) win back their points. And yes I do realise that disruption is very important, but kommandoes just arn't that durable.

Disruption though is worth its weight in gold. Its what 40k is all about. I played against some kommandos yesterday. They rolled badly on their move, and got destroyed by my thunderfire cannon. That cost my thunderfire a turn of shooting at his 20 slugga boyz, who slammed into my combat squads next turn, causing lots of damage.

Unit x must kill its points back to be worth it is scrub mentality. I use war walkers simply to keep my opponents on edge.

Gorkamorka wrote:

Gold tooth Jerry wrote:If you run Kommandos, run with snikrot, also always have them with 2 burnas. They count as PKs if you dont shoot them.

Just to clarify: they're power weapons, not PKs.

Very true my bad, slip up there, they do not allow and armor save, but do not double your str. Still its very valuable to have them.

I've run kommandos a few times as well, and I have yet to get them to do anything useful. Once they got into a tower on the turn after they came on the board to kill 5 rangers (which, against a horde of orks, isn't the scariest of units). A few other times I've brought them in to have them mowed down before I got anywhere near an enemy unit (stinkin' eldar guardians).

In fact, the only usefulness they have ever provided me has been by coming in with two big shootas for 85 points (nob with PK, 2 BSs, 2 normal orks).

Now, as a small group with some Burnas and a PK nob, a group of 5 can use standard infiltration to get near the enemy (via a building) and run over to eat something. Due to being orks, that will give you a solid ~16" range around the building which other units may fear to tread.

One really nice thing with Snikrot is his ability to bring an IC with him on his ambush. Throw your Warboss into the squad and walk him in to take some things down.

I've also been toying with the idea of running Grotsnik and spending the 5/model to give the kommandos Cybork. Then you either put the Doc with the kommandos (since they are going to be charging after the nearest foe anyway) or in a squad of plain boyz (FNP for a squad of 30 means some long lasting 6 point boyz) and have that group run around the board as it is wont to do. With 30 mobs, you can also get the squad layout to better anticipate the opponents attempts to run you around the board.

Unfortunately, this makes the 15 kommandos and Snikrot run you 310 + special weapons... plus the 165 for the Doc. Might be a bit too high for sub-1500 games.

Paradoxic wrote:
One really nice thing with Snikrot is his ability to bring an IC with him on his ambush.

Not according to INAT.

Gorkamorka wrote:

Paradoxic wrote:
One really nice thing with Snikrot is his ability to bring an IC with him on his ambush.

Not according to INAT.

I have seen it done, but I am not sure if its wrong.

Snikrot is almost essential for a competitive ork army. Will he and his fellas survive long after their initial charge? No, but they'll have got the job done. Practice careful target selection to determine the best place for his arrival. Ideally he should be hitting a unit in cover (remember kommandos have stikkbombs) because that will give the kommando's a 4+ cover save the following turn. Also try to set up a counter-charge: Snikrot comes on and wipes a unit. He is then wiped but you have moved up the table far enough to now charge the unit that got Snikrot.

Gold tooth Jerry wrote:

Gorkamorka wrote:

Paradoxic wrote:
One really nice thing with Snikrot is his ability to bring an IC with him on his ambush.

Not according to INAT.

I have seen it done, but I am not sure if its wrong.

It probably is, I'd like to do it for fun someday though. (with a big choppa bloodaxe warboss)

Also, like I said, snikrot isn't 'necessary' in a competitive ork army, you can manage without him, but he helps out a lot.
also

Disruption though is worth its weight in gold. Its what 40k is all about. I played against some kommandos yesterday. They rolled badly on their move, and got destroyed by my thunderfire cannon. That cost my thunderfire a turn of shooting at his 20 slugga boyz, who slammed into my combat squads next turn, causing lots of damage.

And earlier in that day they killed a crisis team a broadside team AND a firewarrior team, Tau player was so afraid of snikrot he decided to put most of his army in reserve (although that ended up working out for him, but it forced him to keep his pathfinders out of the game for a bunch of turns.)

BAN wrote:i really like the idea of them and can see there tactical advantages but with only 3 elite choices should i take them over burnas or lootas coz the nobz are staying!
also kommando nob with powerclaw or snikrot?
has anyone tried and tested the kommandos who can talk me into it?

If you take a WarBoss, Nobz & MegaNobz count as troops.

Boss Snikrot's special rule called Ambush (ork codex p.62):

"Snikrot's mastery of guerilla tactics is legendary. If the owning player chooses, Snikrot and his unit may be held in Reserve. When Snikerot and his unit become available from Reserve, they may move on from any table edge."

If an IC is attached to the unit at the start, and that unit is held in Reserve, then the IC moves in with the Kommandos. Remember, Ambush is not a special version of infiltration, it is a special rule all of its own affecting the unit containing the Boss.

Paradoxic wrote:Boss Snikrot's special rule called Ambush (ork codex p.62):

"Snikrot's mastery of guerilla tactics is legendary. If the owning player chooses, Snikrot and his unit may be held in Reserve. When Snikerot and his unit become available from Reserve, they may move on from any table edge."

If an IC is attached to the unit at the start, and that unit is held in Reserve, then the IC moves in with the Kommandos. Remember, Ambush is not a special version of infiltration, it is a special rule all of its own affecting the unit containing the Boss.

Yep, and I made what I thought was a fairly convincing RAW argument in the YMDC INAT questions thread, but didn't convince Yak to consider reversing the ruling. The justification is posted there, it should be in the first page or two of that forum.

Ah, here it is.

Yakface wrote:
ORK.62C.01 – Q: Can an Independent Character (such
as a Warboss on a bike) join Snikrot’s unit before the
game and arrive with them via ‘Ambush’?
A: No, as Snikrot’s ability is a special rule that does not
specify it affects other ICs joined to his unit, it does not.

This ruling, again is based on a rules argument that has been done many times over in this forum regarding whether or not ICs can gain special rules by joining units. Page 48 of the rule specifies that ICs do not gain special rules when joining a unit unless the special rule specifies that they do. This, of course, brings up the question of what level of specificity is needed. The example they give in the rulebook is 'stubborn' which clearly states that it affects ICs joining the unit.

Snikrot's special rules says it applies to 'his unit', so this has always raised the question of whether this is specific enough to apply to joined ICs as well. We had a long debate when making this ruling and ultimately decided that ICs already get plenty of bonuses in the game and it was probably safer to stick with the stricter interpretation of the rule and say that special rules are not conferred onto joined ICs unless the rule actually says that it applies to ICs.

So for Snikrot's Ambush special rule to apply to joined ICs it would have to say:

"When Snikrot, his unit and any joined Independent Characters become available from Reserve, they may move on from any table edge."

I don't necessarily agree with it, and I'd probably allow it in friendly games, but INAT is INAT.

I see - thank you.

So that leads to my question of how useful is boss snikrot if he substitutes your nob w/powerklaw. I guess it is, as with all things, situational. Against groups such as IG and others with squishy units hiding in the back. Against tank heavy types, it is relatively useless (snikrot only gets an S6 on charge, which won't do much to any real tank) and a normal ork is swinging at 5 on charge.

I agree with the above points that his real usefulness is in disruption to the enemy (and his special abilies on rerolling failed hits and -1 LD to opponents that lose).

So I'd say they are great against non-vehicle armies!

Paradoxic wrote:I see - thank you.

So that leads to my question of how useful is boss snikrot if he substitutes your nob w/powerklaw. I guess it is, as with all things, situational. Against groups such as IG and others with squishy units hiding in the back. Against tank heavy types, it is relatively useless (snikrot only gets an S6 on charge, which won't do much to any real tank) and a normal ork is swinging at 5 on charge.

I agree with the above points that his real usefulness is in disruption to the enemy (and his special abilies on rerolling failed hits and -1 LD to opponents that lose).

So I'd say they are great against non-vehicle armies!

Pretty much everything I can think of aside from land raiders, monoliths and some russ variants has 10 back armor. 6 TL Str6 swings that damage 90% of tanks on 4+ are nothing to sneeze at.

If you're fighting land raiders, they're probably driving at your army full of termies and snikrot could be used for effect elsewhere.
If you're fighting monoliths, then you should be going for phase out and ambushing necrons.

Mr. DK wrote:

BAN wrote:i really like the idea of them and can see there tactical advantages but with only 3 elite choices should i take them over burnas or lootas coz the nobz are staying!
also kommando nob with powerclaw or snikrot?
has anyone tried and tested the kommandos who can talk me into it?

If you take a WarBoss, Nobz & MegaNobz count as troops.

Not quite.