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Only tanks can tank shock and ram.
Some vehicles have access to wargear that lets them tank shock.
No wargear (published so far) allows vehicles to ram.
No Land speeder is a tank so can't ram (or tank shock)
edit ..... ok why did i think that you made a tank charge move not a tank shock ... meh you get what i mean.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/12/04 15:00:42
All vehicles can Ram. Thats why there is a +1 during ramming if you are a TANK.
So a speeder just loses out on that one bonus since it is not a tank. Speeders without guns can make effective suicide missiles.
(This is from memeory I know the bonus is there so I assume its all vehicles, but can't remember exactly the wording. It would be pretty dumb to give a bnus that everyone gets if only tanks can do it. lol But it is GW)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/04 15:20:38
As stated before. Since the speeder isnt a tank it cant ram. ONLY Tanks can ram, however a speeder can be ramed and so can other non tanks. Thats why there is a +1 bonus for being a tank. Its more dangerous to ram a tank then a light skimmer.
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ALL vehicles can ram, but as said with +1 bonus for being a tank IF it is a tank, otherwise, a landspeeder, being a vehicle CAN ram, not all vehicles can TANK shock, only tanks, ramming is different
Again, the +1 on the chart is because not all vehicles BEING rammed are tanks.
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Ravendove wrote:So it's a pretty even split of opinion. Ugh, maybe I should have made a poll.
No need its a common misconception that everything can ram. Every thing can be Rammed but only tanks can do the ramming. When you ram the vehicle you hit also does damage to you so if its a tank +1 to the strength of its hit.
The proof is the fact that ramming is not a standard vehicle ability and can only be found as part of the rules for tanks.
Some rules issues are genuinely nebulous, but this one is definitely not. It comes up at my FLGS every time I play and it always irritates me to no end.
The only vehicles that are capable of executing a ramming action are those that have the 'Tank' description in their profile. Nothing else can ram unless it has a specific rule that states otherwise or a piece of wargear that grants the ability.
The "You just get +1 if you're a tank but everything can ram!" argument is old and incorrect. Whoever it was who started this nonsense is definitely:
The rules for Ramming are contained specifically under the 'Tanks' subsection of vehicles. Iff they wanted all vehicles to be able to ram they would have most likely included the ramming rules within the non-specific vehicle section. Furthermore, iirc any description of a Ramming event always specifically includes a 'tank' performing the action, not a 'vehicle'.
This is very cut and dry. Anyone who still argues that any vehicle can ram is either not reading the BRB or just trying to fiddle with the rules for their benefit.
Same for Monoliths - Skimmer, Tank = able to tank shock and ram. Skimmers have a chance at saving vs. a ram however.
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Well then I guess only things mentioned as tank somewhere can ram other vehicles then, but RAI at my store I guess follows real world logic. If Object A can ram into Object B and suffer damage as well as deal damage, then the reverse is also true under the same circumstances. Players generally understand thats how it should work and so thats how they play it. But RAW (accept in alternate language rule books) state that only tank descriptors can initiate the ram, but still be destroyed by the truck they ran into.
Um I would think that the term tank used a couple hundred times through the paragraph would give that away. Ramming is also a special feature of a tank, under the Tank heading, where they talk about what a vehicle that is a Tank can do.... get the common theme here?
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ZacktheChaosChild wrote:It never says only a Tank can ram. Why would that even make sense if you get a bonus when you ram with a Tank.
Nothing say that only tanks may ram indeed ... however nothing currently gives other vehicles access to the ramming rules, since it is one of the rules you get for being a tank.
Strimen wrote:Well then I guess only things mentioned as tank somewhere can ram other vehicles then, but RAI at my store I guess follows real world logic. If Object A can ram into Object B and suffer damage as well as deal damage, then the reverse is also true under the same circumstances. Players generally understand thats how it should work and so thats how they play it. But RAW (accept in alternate language rule books) state that only tank descriptors can initiate the ram, but still be destroyed by the truck they ran into.
RAI? so the tank rules are intended for none tanks? Nice house rule but completely wrong.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2009/12/05 00:09:23
ZacktheChaosChild wrote:It never says only a Tank can ram. Why would that even make sense if you get a bonus when you ram with a Tank.
If the opposing side is a tank you take the +1S to you, you always get the +1S to them. Read the example.
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ZacktheChaosChild wrote:It never says only a Tank can ram.
It never specifically says that only tanks may ram... but the rules for ramming are in the Tanks section, and only ever refer to tanks doing it.
There is nothing anywhere in the rulebook that indicates that ramming is an option for any other type of vehicle.
Why would that even make sense if you get a bonus when you ram with a Tank.
As has already been pointed out, you get a bonus based on whether or not the vehicle being damaged (not just the vehicle that is ramming) is a tank because both vehicles take damage... and the vehicle being rammed is not necessarily going to be a tank.
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This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2009/12/05 00:14:49
According to some in this thread, my dreadnought can also 'RAM' during his movement phase. HOORAY! I would gladly force STR 4 hits on many vehicles during my movement phase. (+2 for armor 12, +2 for 6" movement and +0 for tank) Since I can only harm AV10, the worst recoil I would ever take from AV 10 would be a str 3 hit (+0 av10, +2 6", +1 tank)
"Nothing says I can't" strikes again. Only tanks can ram.
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Strimen wrote:Well then I guess only things mentioned as tank somewhere can ram other vehicles then, but RAI at my store I guess follows real world logic.
Nothing wrong with making a house rule, but it doesn't mean it's going to be usable outside of your LGS since it clearly violates the BRB.
Keep in mind that the 'logic' behind only allowing Tanks to Ram is to limit the effectiveness of the tactic for tiny, fast models like Landspeeders that can cause much higher strength hits by moving 24" before impact. It's an artificial limitation that is part of the game, I assume, to attempt to keep things balanced.
It's the same reason there is a FOC and limitations on squadron sizes. Nothing to do with realism, it's part of the game.
On a side note I once saw an eldar army where all of his tanks were painted with the Japanese rising sun because he regularly did Kamikaze attacks with his wave serpents.
Also, Does the strength of a ram Cap at 10 or does aforementioned wave serpent have the ability to perform Str 11 Rams?
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Red_Lives wrote:Also, Does the strength of a ram Cap at 10 or does aforementioned wave serpent have the ability to perform Str 11 Rams?
That' another can'o'worms issue, I'm afraid.
Some say it caps at 10, because 10 is the maximum for any stat except for Attacks.
Some say it's not a stat, it's a separate thing entirely, and there is nothing that specifically caps it at 10.
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