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TBH while I loved the movie, real life patriots have created mixed feelings for me. Some seem to be decent people who uphold honorable principles, while others seem to be gun-wielding lunatics on the verge of moral insanity. In either case, I never thought I'd become one of them.

But today, this morning, while I was sitting on the beach watching the surf, a thought came to me. I kinda like this country. A little later I realised that actually I don't like Australia, I love it.

I understand that there are some things that I do not agree with, such as our immigration policy. And there are some pieces of our history that I do not enjoy, like White Australia or the Lost Generation. However, regardless of all that, I have come to realise that this beautiful country is my home and I would never give it up...except maybe Tasmania.

Seriously though, I just like to talk to other Australians (heck, even outside opinions are welcome ) about our country. What do YOU think of it?

And furthermore, what are the pros and cons of being a patriot? (of any country)

Welcome to the club. It is indeed a glorious thing to have a love and pride in not only the idea of your country, but the land, the physical country. Sometimes words will not be able to express your love and feelings for your own country, but you will always know what it means to you. I warn you though: Do not let your patriotism, which is itself a subtle yet passionate emotion, devolve into Jingoism. While your country, and to an extent your fellow countrymen, belong to you just as you belong to them, mistakes will always be made. The trick is learning to scrounge up the balls to admit and correct a mistake and not ignore it. Just my 2 cents....

Ah yes, that is the word I was looking for. Jingoism. *rushes to change name of thread* (Just joking )

Interestingly, my brother just pointed out to me that whenever you die in the campaign for CoD: Modern Warfare 2 these verses on patriotism come up.

Yeah, its the difference between 'I love my country' and 'my country is better than yours'.

I am very proud to be British - although I have very mixed feelings about a lot of things in my nations past, as a result of my lineage. I think you can love your country and still accept that it is flawed.

But there is nowhere I would rather be from.

sebster wrote:Yeah, its the difference between 'I love my country' and 'my country is better than yours'.

But everyone already knows that...

Patriots , they help by keeping a country together.

And they dont help by keeping nations apart.

I am a big fan of my country, but mostly I feel like the government is a bunch of law-making whores. A zombie outbreak would be a refreshing change of pace, actually.

I don't really mind K.Rudd or the government. They're a big kerfuffle about Turnbull and backroom antics, but when isn't there?

In regards to thier policies, I don't really think there's much I can say that's bad about it.

Nationalism = Patriotismx2.


Is my math right?

Actually, I'm not quite sure what the difference between Nationalism, Jingoism and Imperialism.

Emperors Faithful wrote:Actually, I'm not quite sure what the difference between Nationalism, Jingoism and Imperialism.

Nationalism = we are the best country ever

Jingoism = Nationalism + Militarism

Imperialism = everyone wants, or should have, our influence and we should spread it around

I thought:

Jingoism = We are the best country ever.

Nationalism = Jingoism + Militarism.

Emperors Faithful wrote:I thought:

Jingoism = We are the best country ever.

Nationalism = Jingoism + Militarism.

Jingosim is from the little ditty that was sung in pubs around London in the build up to their involvement in the Russo-Turkish war;

"We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too
We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true
The Russians shall not have Constantinople."

While the poem starts with a line about not wanting to fight, well, most jingoists always start with a line about not wanting to fight, before launching into something about how awesome they are at fighting and how they need to kick the ass of some randomly chosen enemy of the day.

Patriotism is a love of your country. Nationalism is believing your country is inherently superior to other countries. Jingoism is support for aggressive foreign policy.

I am a Canadian by birth. My patriotism for Canada is atom thin and revolves primarily around the fate of the National Hockey Team in international tournaments. I always felt that if your nation's identity was intrinsically linked to a chain of donut shops, you're in BIG trouble.

But in my heart, I know Canada will always lead the world in being just north of the United States.

Emperors Faithful wrote:I thought:

Jingoism = We are the best country ever.

Nationalism = Jingoism + Militarism.

Jingoism really is just have a hardline foreign affairs stance. Most often the growling is backed up by the threat of military force. Basically it is saying "respect us or else!"

And Nationalism?

Emperors Faithful wrote:And Nationalism?

As already stated:

Nationalism = we are the best country ever

The belief that one's nation is the most important nation, though not necessarily the best. In multi-ethnic, or multi-national, 'nations' (like America) the notion of superiority through the degradation of others tends to be the uniting element (what Ahtman is talking about).

You're still a nationalist, even if you think your country is crap, so long as you believe that what happens there is very important.

dogma wrote:The belief that one's nation is the most important nation, though not necessarily the best. In multi-ethnic, or multi-national, 'nations' (like America) the notion of superiority through the degradation of others tends to be the uniting element (what Ahtman is talking about).

You're still a nationalist, even if you think your country is crap, so long as you believe that what happens there is very important.

Of course it is more complicated, but I don't think anyone is prepared to write 400 pages on it to post here.

sebster wrote:"We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too
We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true
The Russians shall not have Constantinople."

Wait... how on earth are they pronouncing Constantinople?

People in my country have a problem with the word "Nationalism", because of some Austrian soldier that thought it'd be clever to become German Chancellor and kill millions of Jews...

"Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons." -- Bertrand Russell

I love my country, but there are days I don't like it much.

Its very much a love/hate relationship between me and the US of A although I try to aspire to follow this Socrates' quote:

"I am not an Athenian or a Greek, but a citizen of the world."

At its core it seems silly to be proud of something where you were just born into. I can understand people being proud for earning things like a citizenship to a particular country but being proud for something you were born into or with seems...daft although I'm unable to really articulate more at the moment. Although its completely understandable especially since countries are romanticized the world over and as humans we're also territorial based which I think is another driving factor in our ego's (Us versus Them etc).

If anything I feel more lucky than proud since in my very cynical view of the world I think most Westernized countries and maybe societies in general are only around due to tyrannical majorities and histories/status quo of relentless exploitation of those that are more unfortunate than us.

Orkeosaurus wrote:

sebster wrote:"We don't want to fight but by Jingo if we do
We've got the ships, we've got the men, we've got the money too
We've fought the Bear before, and while we're Britons true
The Russians shall not have Constantinople."

Wait... how on earth are they pronouncing Constantinople?

It's pronounced Istanbul, not Constantinople, Istanbul, not Constantinople.

No, we do not love humanity; but on the other hand we are not nearly "German" enough, in the sense in which the word "German" is constantly being used nowadays, to advocate nationalism and race hatred and to be able to take pleasure in the national scabies of the heart and blood poisoning that now leads the nations of Europe to delimit and barricade themselves against each other as if it were a matter of quarantine. -Nietzsche

Nationalism is an infantile disease. It is the measles of mankind. - Einstien

sebster wrote:It's pronounced Istanbul, not Constantinople, Istanbul, not Constantinople.

Wrong, especially for when the song was written, and really for the entirety of history pre-1930. Historically speaking it has been and will always be Constantinople. Byzantium was a fishing village, but Constantinople was the first World city, and is sadly now a shadow of its former self....damn Turks.....

I prefer to just not like things. I don't get embarassed when something goes wrong, and I feign interest if things go right.

I think patriotism isn't bad in itself but that it can be abused in a similar way to organised religion.

That is the vibe I get from seeing footage of folks from the states who can justify anything by doing it for America, as if America is some pure ideal and not just a country.

"The ideal of America is the hope of all mankind... That hope still lights our way. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it." -George W. Bush 2002, paraphrasing Jesus

"This country is still the last best hope on earth." -Barack Obama 2007

Not meaning to pick on you guys from the states in particular, you are just the most obvious.

Teh_K42 wrote:I think patriotism isn't bad in itself but that it can be abused in a similar way to organised religion.

That is the vibe I get from seeing footage of folks from the states who can justify anything by doing it for America, as if America is some pure ideal and not just a country.

"The ideal of America is the hope of all mankind... That hope still lights our way. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not overcome it." -George W. Bush 2002, paraphrasing Jesus

"This country is still the last best hope on earth." -Barack Obama 2007

Not meaning to pick on you guys from the states in particular, you are just the most obvious.

It's ok, we are well aware of how we can come off; American Exceptionalism has been around for awhile: we are a beautiful snowflake of a country, [your choice of deity here] has blessed us like no other, ect ect.