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This may be the finalized version of my 1850 list, and I wanted to get all of your opinions on it. Please feel free to comment, this army is for a grand tournament, and although I'm very expierienced in general with the game, I'm still relatively new to the new tyranids, so if you can come up with something contructive to add I'll be happy to listen.

HQ
Tyrant- Wings 2 twin linked devourers hive commander paroxysm leech life 285

Tyrant- Wings 2 twin linked devourers hive commander paroxysm leech life 285

Elites
2 zoanthropes 120
spore pod 40

2 zoanthropes 120
spore pod 40

Troops
10 gaunts 50

10 gaunts 50

tervigon- toxin sacs catalyst 185

tervigon- toxin sacs catalyst 185

5 genestealers 70

Heavy
Trygon- toxin sacs 210

Trygon- toxin sacs 210

Let me know what you think.

I would lose the toxin sacs on the trygons...you dont want them woundig on 4's with re-rolls when they wound most things on 2's.

Also drop the genestealers. Add more gaunts with the remaining points. They are made far more deadly with tervigons you are using.

Just my thoughts.

I like the stealers because they are a 5th scoring unit. If I want the tervigons to outflank and they both show up on the same side then hopefully I can have the stealers outflank to the other to capture an objective on the other end of the table. They are also they only real small based models I have that are decent in combat, meaning they are the only models in my army which can get in those hard to reach places and still fight.

Doesn't poison mean re roll wounds on whatever you normally need to wound when fighting something of lower toughness than your strength? Or am I misunderstanding?

You are half right with the poison. Yes you get the re-roll, but you only wound on a 4+.

I was just thinking with only 5 stealers they aren't going to make much difference. And 10 gaunts are very easy to take down. This is just me though.

Hmm. Well in that case i'll transfer the points to the tervigons giving them adrenal glands also.

I tried the list without the stealers, and believe it or not they are so small that my opponents never bother targeting them, but they can very easily blow up a tank and or cause some havoc outflanking. And if they are just holding an objective with 3+ cover after going to ground, they are surprisingly hard to remove esepecially since no one wants to waste signifigant fire on just 5 models.

Ok, good luck with the list then. Would be nice to see nids do well again.

So youll start with 20 guants on the table - everything else is reserved?

Id fix your troops selection. Everything else is great. Though the Devourers on the Tyrants are questionable. Theyre AP - so popping transports is meh. Paroxysm is the counter to shooty units. Id give them dual sytals - 60 points saved there. Dump this into one of the 10 bug termagaunt units. Keep this unit and the Tervigon. The other paired set Id drop for a big unit of Hormaguants.

When running Tervigons AND Zoanthropes - include the Deathleaper to counter JAWWS and hoods.

Looks like youre combining to different archtypes. I like the Commander Tyrant list - Id focus on its strengths and go with that rather than try to take advantage of the Tervigon.

Maybe this is a silly suggestion. You may want to contact the organizer to find out if 2x hive commanders for +2 reserve roll stacks. There is a debt on that issue.

You could also Swap one tyrant for a swarm lord. That would fix possible ambiguities about the reserve rolls stacking.

I like the Tyrants as New Player says you shopuld check the Hive Commander bonus stacks with the TO both in relation to the reserves rolls and the number of units you can out flank. The RAW on the outflank is still only 1 unit even if you have 2 Hive Commanders but the opposite for reserves rolls. The 2 x Devourer is a great combo with wings and allows you to lay down serious fire the turn you arrive.

Stealers with no toxin sacs and a min unit just seems a waste of points. Give the Tervigons adrenal glands and spend the rest on increasing the size of those 2 Gant units. Though remember the Tervigons won't be able to spawn the turn they arrive as they'll be off the baord at the start of their movement.

Toxin sacs on the Trygon will reduce your chances to wound in general so a waste. Adrenal glands will help them tank hunt.

Other than that it looks an OK Nidzilla DP army. I think your troops choices don't really fit the theme of a reserve army though. Whilst pure Nidzilla isn't the best way to go with a reserve army. Personally I'd drop your entire troops section for 1 large Brood of toxin sac Hormagaunts and then spend the rest of the points on Toxin sac Stealers. If you get Capture and control be suer to place you objective as near the end of your deployment zone as you can. In 2 out of 3 deployment types that should be pretty near the middle of the table and thuis you can concentrate on your assault and not worry about spreading for your objective until turns 4-5.

In all the play testing I've done so far 5x Genestealers are pointless and your not garaunteed to take out a tank. Im pretty sure you can get shot at also if you are in combat with a tank so one flamer and they are history.

Jaws against any initiative 1 based unit is also a major problem. I would expect you to find a lot of Spacewolves oppenents so this is a major problem for the Tervigons. Maybe I'm biased but my experience with Tervigons hasn't been great and when they die they are likely to do some serious damage to your Gaunts.

Jaws will kill tervigon for sure, but discarding a great scoring and support unit just because space wolf is rather harsh. Don't give up on your tervigon, yet, L0rdF1end. Once you figure out how to avoid Jaws, make sure you p.m me the tactic. I needed, too.

Yeah, it's needed, whatever you do, don't put one behind the other lol.

I just say this because at the moment Spacewolves are very popular. I think at the last doubles near to 1/3 of armies had spacewolves. But your right, you can't say a no to Tervigons just because of Jaws.

The troop selection is the hardest thing I find to work out in a Nid army.

The troop selection is the hardest thing I find to work out in a Nid army.

QTF though Elites can be tricky too (because you want at least 5-6 choices...)

I think the best method is look at what you want your army to do and then fit in your troops. Do you want an army full of DS and outflank for a reserves assault? Then stealers and Hormies aided by Hive Commander are your best bet. Do you want a Zilla list then Tervigons aer great. Do you want an endless swarm then Tervigons and large broods of Termagants are great. Do you want an elite hard hitting amy then Warriors and stealers rae the best choice. etc etc etc...

Kaizervonhugal- My deployment depends largely on my opponent and what army hes bringing, and it varies from game to game. Sometime the whole army is in reserves and the gaunts just walk, sometimes the whole thing will deploy like against daemons or something. It depends.

Newplayer- Thats a good idea, thanks fro the idea, I'll be sure to email the TO.

Bishopx- But a swarmlord is too slow to fit into a list like this.

Flingitnow- Will do on double checking with the TO. I do really like the tyrants with their firepower. I want the stealers if for nthing more than the reasons already stated, but I do understand where you're coming from. I don't see what getting 1 big squad of hormagants will do? The tervigons are great for popping out scoring units, put one in outflank and crush a flank and put the other in reserve to walk up the field and shoot out scoring units since there will be other MC's in his face already.

As far as wolves go, it depends on the type of wolf list I guess. Most cases i'm probably going to lose, on the count that wolves can outshoot us ten times over AND beat face in combat. Sadly I think my best chance in a tournament setting is to ignore wolves and hope to never play them. Every army has their mis-matches, you can't hinder your armies overall performance in all games in order to make 1 particualr match up slightly better for you. That's just not sane. My best chance is popping the rhino with the rune priest in it and disposing of him ASAP and hoping shadow keeps me safe for a turn. I don't have a deffinite answer for wolves yet. But in all honesty my old nid list couldn't beat sisters wolves or most guard and I still consistently did successful with them in tournaments, through not playing them and then when I had to relying on player skill. That's really all I can hope for.

According to the inatfaq, 2 hive commanders reserve bonus don't stack, and no reserve bonus if the HTs are not on the table. I wonder if their faq will affect all GT ruling.

Good luck.

According to the inatfaq, 2 hive commanders reserve bonus don't stack, and no reserve bonus if the HTs are not on the table.

I can understand the first ruling but the 2nd ruling is totally ridiculous, it clearly states asd long as the Hive Tyrant is alive. The whole point of Hive commander is for your DS army to function as you have no DP assault rule.

Back to eth questions about the list. A big squad or Hormies will rip apart most things iot gets into CC with. As will the stealers both with toxin sacs. Stealers can be effective in small numbers Hormagaunts not so much hence why you take a big blob of them (and to help with survivability).

The Tervigons will spawn some units but when they die they also damage all nearby units. The problem with using them in THIS list is that you are going for a DS assault yet you have 2 lumbering MCs chewing up points that aren't offering an immediate threat allowing your enemy to concentrate on the Tyrants and Trygons with everything he has. Out flanking Hormagaunts and Stealers can assault 18" from the table edge offering an immediate threat AND potentially tieing up (and killing) some units in CC that would otherwise be shooting at your MCs. The tervigons comes on looks sad gets ignored then the next turn spits out 1 unit of Gants and then gets dead massacring half said unit of gaunts...

New Player wrote:no reserve bonus if the HTs are not on the table.

Well that messes up my Ninja List if that's true. Where is this inatfaq?

The words for the Hive Tyrants reserve rule is if the tyrant is alive....the tyrant is still alive even if off the table. Only the lictor has wording off the table..

List wise, tyrants are ok but really need bullet shields to protect them.

Gants are ok, but 15 is better. You don't need the stealers because your tervigons will spawn troops for you (I spawned 82 gants in a recent game!) and plus the stealers in a min unit without toxin sacs won't be affective.

As previously mentioned by others, trygons with toxin sacs aren't a good idea. Adrenal gland for furious charge is better

Please please let us get my reserve bonus with him off the table. From what Mercer said that does sound right. Stacking does seem unfair and I can live witout that.

I'd drop toxin sacs from your Trygons. Personally would prefer more Genestealers and Hourmagants both with Toxin sacs, Maybe drop one of your Tervigons.

It is right lol. Lictor's rule specify that the reserve bonus only works if the Lictor is on the table. The Tyrants rules say as long as the Tyrant is alive - the Tyrant is alive if off the table, in reserve. Reserve bonus will also stack as well. A lictor's stacks and so does a Swarmlords and if you take two Tyrants with hive commander each then two troop units can still outflank. There is no reason why they shouldn't. We'll have to wait until FAQ.

I sent a PM to the tournament organizer and he said he's reading through 100+ pages of FAQ, but it's currently looking like they do stack he said.

Flingitnow- You could be on to something with the hormagaunt, but I feel like they would just get blown to bits and do nothing vs a mechanised list. A tervigon can create numerous scoring units/ screens that can also fight, which is very important to my overall startegy. I personally like the tervigons and since they are monstrous creatures they can put the hurt on tanks unlike hormagaunt. More stealers however is always welcome. But, at the same time I don't really think I need more anti infantry.

Mercer- I understand where you're coming from with more gaunts instead of the stealers, but the stealers give me the versatility of an out flanking LOW PROFILE troop choice that can also hurt tanks. It's a very good option to have IMO.

L0rdF1end- I'll be sure to drom toxin sacs from my trygons and grab adrenal glands for my tervis.

Hree are the rules for Hive Commander:

"If a Hive Tyrant has the Hive Commander upgrade, a single unit of troops may outflank."

It says "a Hive Tyrant" rather than "the Hive tyrant" which under strict RAW means only 1 unit gets to outflank no matter how many Hive Commanders you have. Though the intention may be different.


"In addition, whilst the Hive Tyrant is alive you add +1 to your reserve rolls."

This means the Tyrant simply has to be alive and not on the table. Note the lictor wording:

"If a Lictor is on the board at the beginning of the Movement phase, the Tyranid adds +1 top any of his rserve rolls"

This means that 3 or even 9 Lictors still means only +1 and notice how it specifies they have to be on the board. Hence RAW and RAI means the Tyrant simply has to be alive whether deployed or not. Also technically by RAW the Tyrant bonus does stack however Astropaths have already had this ruled the other way in an FAQ. However the Autarchs have had this ruled the current RAW way so it is a judgement call. By RAW they currently stack and RAI is unclear so that is how I'd play it at the moment if I was against 'Nids. If I was using 'Nids I'd check with my opponent first or as the case is just take 1 Hive Commander to avoid a problem...


Back to the list if the Hormagaunts are in combat they can't get shot at by anything. They have an 18 assault range when they first come on. Sure they can't blow vehicles but you have plenty of other things to do that with and at worst they can be a distraction from your stealers or other choices. I still don't think you'll get value out of the Tervigons in this list. I think Tervigons are ace and one of the best new units in the game. But they need the list to be built to suite them and what they bring to the table. That means large units of gants to buff and catalyse and Venomthropes to give them a cover save and probably something like Deathleaper to shut down Jaws as much as possible.

yermom wrote:
Mercer- I understand where you're coming from with more gaunts instead of the stealers, but the stealers give me the versatility of an out flanking LOW PROFILE troop choice that can also hurt tanks. It's a very good option to have IMO.

I like stealers don't get me wrong, its just 5 aren't threatening and will get shot to gak in not time. Also don't have toxin sacs either so cannot get re-rolls against T4 or below.

FlingitNow wrote:Hree are the rules for Hive Commander:

"If a Hive Tyrant has the Hive Commander upgrade, a single unit of troops may outflank."

It says "a Hive Tyrant" rather than "the Hive tyrant" which under strict RAW means only 1 unit gets to outflank no matter how many Hive Commanders you have. Though the intention may be different.

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree Fling. When it says A it means one, so you a hive tyrant here which gives outflank and then a hive tyrant over there which gives outflank. So one hive tyrant can give outflank to one unit and then another tyrant can give outflank as well.

Its like saying preferred enemy only works once if you took it, the abilities taken twice would always have double affects and work twice.

I guess time will tell with a FAQ

I'm going to have to respectfully disagree Fling. When it says A it means one, so you a hive tyrant here which gives outflank and then a hive tyrant over there which gives outflank. So one hive tyrant can give outflank to one unit and then another tyrant can give outflank as well.

Its like saying preferred enemy only works once if you took it, the abilities taken twice would always have double affects and work twice.

Hey I'm with you on RAI I think you should be able to outflank 2 troops units with 2 Hive Commanders but how it is written technically means the opposite. The preferred enemy works entirely different as it is an aura effect from the Tyrant not a gifted effect.

Technically the way it is written if you have a Hive Tyrant means 1 or more Hive Tyrants that is how the english technically works. Though I don;t htink it is the intention.

Look at IG astropaths you can buy multiple of them but you don't get multiple benefits. So it is not as cut and dried with GW...

I guess we'll just have to wait and see and argue/debate our own corners until a FAQ arrives.

At mo I'm saying A Tyrant gets that abiliity, so, so each Tyrant gets the ability. You'd just be paying 25 points for nothing if you took it twice and it didn't work....

So just in case the hive commander rule is ruled to not stack. I made a back up list, let me know what you think.

HQ
Hive Tyrant- wings 2 twin linked devourers hive commander old adversary paroxysm leech life 310

Elites
2 zoanthropes 120
spore pod 40

2 zoanthropes 120
spore pod 40

doom of malantai 90
spore pod 40
OR
death leaper 140
(im not sure which to take here, I keep going back and forth leaning torwards deathleaper)

Troops
10 gaunts 50

Tervigon- catalyst toxin sacs regen 205

10 gausnt 50

Tervigon- catalyst toxin sacs regen 205

Heavy
Trygon 200

Trygon 200

mawloc 170

What do you think of my back up?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I'm actually liking my second list more and more, do you think it's just a more competitive list all together?

Remember Deathleaper has to be on the table before he gives you +1 to reserves.

I have tried both in my lists and I have to say I love the Doom. For a well rounded list that needs anti-psyker defense though you may want Deathleaper.

Also, just in case you do field Doom, you will need to contact the TO to see whether or not his aura affects units in vehicles and can units receive cover/invulnerable saves.

Good luck with your list.

I know deathleaper needs to be on the table to confer his reserves benefit, its just something I'll have to deal with.

I don't think I could morally play that doom effects units in transports, it just seems like total rules abuse to me.

Thanks.

Hey Yermom,

I like the list overall and I would choose deathleaper only because of his anti-psyker defense abilities so you can get your zoeys and tervigons to cast their powers. I had it done against me and even with a -1 ld, my opponent got 3/4 of the powers off.

Your list is pretty balanced and I dont think you will have much trouble outside of guard or SW. The ruling for the HT hive commander is a highly debated issue. How are your experiences with mass reserves for nids?