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Fun List of RAW Fun - or what happens when we Play By The Rules

This list was originally started to make a point in another thread, but has since grown way bigger. It's a list of all the silliness that can occur from a strict RAW reading of some sloppily-written rulebooks. Thanks to everyone who has contributed, and to Gwar for some lovely formatting (as well as some lovely rules contributions, of course!). I update this regularly with all the RAW issues i think are silly enough.

Please keep the suggestions coming.

Oh, and the golden rule is, if you want to argue about things for pages, start a new thread!

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Main Rulebook
- Wobbly Model Rule means models can move in any direction, including onto the side of a building or the tip of a tree, and then be removed from the table as 'unstable', as long as both players know where they should be. Potentially, you can move ALL your models like this if you wish.
- Non-vehicle models without eyes cannot shoot. (The rulebook requires you to check line of sight from the model's eyes. Wraithlords, for example, do not have any)
- The Rage USR does not work, as you cannot check Line of Sight in the movement phase.
- Any weapon which refers to a 'Large Blast Template' or 'Blast Template' cannot be used. There is no such thing. There ARE, however, Blast 'Markers'.
- 'Moves like Jump Infantry' does not mean 'uses all the movement rules for Jump Infantry', so some models with Wings cannot Deep Strike, dependent on codex.
- Turret mounted heavy flamers cannot be used, as their template will target a friendly model (the tank hull)
- Vehicle Squadrons that are purchased as a Squadron of one (eg, a Single Leman Russ) remain Squadrons until the first time they are shot at by the enemy. Which means they can be wrecked by difficult terrain tests.
- There are no rules for deployment. You can therefore deploy wherever you like, including on the bookshelf in the next room.
- Deep Strike mishaps never occur when hitting enemy models. DS occurs in the Movement phase, which requires you to stop any model when it comes within 1" of an enemy, even when it DS scatters.
- Independent Characters cannot move within 2" of a vehicle during the movement phase. This makes it very hard for them to embark/disembark - they must be EXACTLY 2" away.
- ICs who can repair vehicles cannot move within 2" of a vehicle during the movement phase. The vehicle must move to them or they must run to it.
- Nobody can make Scouts moves. Deployment requires you to make any 'Scout' moves. There is no USR called 'Scout'
- A unit may move off the table, they are only removed from play if they touch the edge of the table if falling back. The following turn they would be able to move back on or around without any penalty. This was FAQ'd but we all know THAT doesn't count as RAW....
- ONLY Citadel Miniatures may be used to play 40k. Nothing else.

Black Templars
- Black Templar Terminators cannot sweeping advance, but other models in 'terminator armour' can

Blood Angels
- Reclusiarchs have Honour of the Chapter and Liturgies of Blood, but cannot use them, as these abilities only affect 'Chaplains'
- Blood Angel Vindicators have their weapon listed as just ordnance 1. Not ordnance blast 1.
- Blood Angel 'models in teminator armour' are relentless, but only 'Terminators' (the unit) cannot sweeping advance and count as two models in a vehicle.

Chaos Space Marines
- In various psychic powers, including Warptime, THE PSYKER ITSELF must roll the dice. (That's the model, not the player)
- Warptime requires you to reroll ALL hits and ALL wounds, not just unsuccessful hits/wounds.

Dæmonhunters/Witchhunters
- Grey Knight Terminators can always Sweeping Advance, apparently they cannot 'Advance' after combat. There is no such thing as 'Advancing' after combat.
- Only 'characters in terminator armour' are can move and fire with heavy weapons.
- Culexus Assassins are always Leadership 7 as they are affected by their own Soulless rule!

Dark Angels
- If you run bikers, no model in EITHER army may turbo-boost during it's Scout move.
- Dark Angel Terminators cannot sweeping advance, but other models in 'terminator armour' can

Dark Eldar
- Dark Eldar Jetbikers have T5. (The boost to T4 is clearly included in their stat line, however the entry never states this, and the BRB states that jetbikes get +1 toughness)

Eldar
- Eldrad has access to Farseer powers but cannot use them, as they refer to 'the Farseer'
- Harlequins have a USR called 'Furious Assault'. This does not exist. (There is a 'Furious Charge', though)
- Dire Avengers' Bladestorm doesn't have any drawbacks. You can't shoot in the "subsequent shooting phase" [Eldar Codex p.30] but that's your enemy's so no harm done.

Imperial Guard
- Leman Russ Battle Tanks do not have any main turret weapon (The Army List lists a turret weapon for a 'Leman Russ' but there's no unit called a 'Leman Russ')
- Nork Deggog only counts as one model for the purpose of transports, as well as getting the benefit of priest's rerolls.

Necrons
- Necron Monoliths GAIN shots each time they have a Weapon Destroyed (apparently it "reduces the number of shots by -1", which is the same as adding 1)
- The Monolith takes hits at the base strength of the unit attacking (so, 4 for a Devastator with a lascannon)
- You are only denied WBB if the shot is 2x your toughness. Therefore, T4 models are only denied by S8 shots, not S9 or S10. Strength D does not deny WBB.

Orks
- Ork Trukks 'Ramshackle' never triggers as there are no 'Vehicle Destroyed!' or 'Vehicle Explodes!' results (There are 'Destroyed - Wrecked' and 'Destroyed - Explodes!' though..)
- Ork boarding planks cannot be used if the vehicle has moved more than 12" in THE ENTIRE GAME. (There's no qualification for 12" that TURN)
- Nothing in the game may ram, unless you model a ram or Deff Rolla on that's more than 1" long. (You have to stop 1" away from the enemy, and the ramming rules only work if you touch them)
- Nob Bikers and IC's on Warbikes are not the Bikes unit type (They change their 'troop type' to bike, but there's no such thing as 'troop type')
- The double 6 result on the Shokk Attack gun removes anything under the template, even vehicles. They suffer a hit in addition to being removed from the board.

Space Marines
- Shrike's unit cannot deploy as Infiltrators (since the unit only gets the rule after he joins them, and he can't join them until after deployment)
- Space Marine 'models in teminator armour' are relentless, but only 'Terminators' (the unit) cannot sweeping advance and count as two models in a vehicle.
- Ironclad dreadnoughts have two special close combat weapons, therefore they can't USE them both in the same turn.
- Master of the Forge cannot bolster defenses as the rule refers to a Techmarine.
- Lysander cannot bolster defenses as the rule refers to a Techmarine.
- Tellion is not 'Unique'
- Space Marine Characters who take a bike do not change their unit type to Bike. They are still Infantry, and can therefore embark on transport vehicles.

Space Wolves
- Wolf Scouts cannot make a Scout move - they have the Scout USR, but there is no such thing. There is, however, a Scouts USR.
- Bjorn the Fellhanded has 5+ inv save which he cannot use (since, if you pass it, the special rule doesn't list what happens next).
- Storm Caller gives vehicles a 5+ cover save, they they can only use against wounds because the power doesn't also obscure them.
- Tempest Wrath affects all Jump Infantry units, even if they didn't use their Jump Packs. It doesn't affect things that 'move as Jump Infantry' such as Mephiston or a DP, as these are still Infantry/MC.

Tau Empire
- Multitrackers do not work on Tau Fire Warriors and Pathfinders (The rules allow you to fire two Battlesuit Weapon Systems, and Tau infantry can't take any)
- Broadsides with Advanced Stabilisation System can choose to use it at ANY point in the movement phase, including after they've already moved 6", giving them all the benefits of Slow & Purposeful, but none of the drawbacks.
- Drones are removed when the model with the drone controller is removed in the "shooting or assault phase", so if a battlesuit dies in the movement phase (Tank Shock etc) the drones remain.
- Battlesuits may take up to 100pts from the 'Battlesuit Wargear List', but this is only a section of the Battlesuit Armoury. Weapons and support systems therefore don't count toward the total.
- Battlesuits do not require a drone controller to purchase drones from the 'Battlesuit Wargear List'. The drone controller does limit you to only two, though.
- Since drones are wargear, they don't have to modelled separately, and can be on the battlesuit model.
[The upshot of these last ones is that a Battlesuit may spend 100pts on wargear, including one of each type of Drone but no drone controller, and still take all it's normal weapon and support options. The Drones do not count as casualties for the purposes of morale, and will not be removed when the suit dies, as the suit does not have a drone controller, and as long as the drones are not actually separate models.]

Tyranids
- The Tyranid instinctive behavior Lurk doesn't work because you cannot check to see if you are out of range without declaring shooting, at which point it is too late to run.
- Doom of Malant'ai has access to Zoanthrope powers but cannot use them, as they refer to 'the Zoanthrope'
- The Doom of Malan'tai has no invulnerable save, for the same reason as given above.
- The above is also true for Old One Eye and Carnifex abilities, Swarmlord and Hive Tyrant abilities and Deathleaper and Lictor Abilities.
- Spore mines aren't removed when they explode, though they can damage themselves (meaning they would instantly explode twice in most cases).
- Spore mine movement doesn't replace 'normal' movement, so the mine can float d6", move the remainder up to 6" and still assault if it wants.
- Spore mines will instantly blow up if deployed in units larger than one. This is because the special rule for them says if they DRIFT into each other they do not detonate but one is removed from play.
- The Paroxysm power lasts until the Tyrant's next turn, so if the Tyrant is killed this power last indefinitely, possibly until the next game he is used in.
- Various psychic powers measure range 'from the Hive Tyrant' or last 'until the Tyrant's next turn', even if they're being used by the Swarmlord.
- "All Carnifexes in the brood must have the same options." Well, they ALL have the same list of options, as they're in the same unit, but you can still choose which ones to take.
- "All units of Termagants, spawned or otherwise, within 6" of a Tervigon can use the Tervigon's Leadership for any test they are required to make." That's ANY TEST, not just Ld tests.`


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The Rage USR breaks the rulebook, because there is no way to check LOS in the movement phase.

ArbitorIan wrote:
- Terminators in Terminator Armour cannot Sweeping Advance, but anyone else in Terminator Armour can.

Space wolves codex says "Models in Terminator armour cannot perform a sweeping advance." :O

Great list, it exposes the level of rules lawyering that some threads enshrine.

And of course there's the troll corollary:

* "Looks like GW fixed that odd clause in their errata, so your 'ruling' is wrong."
* (sneering) "No, GW is wrong."

Well done!

Broadsides, Advanced stabilization system.

may use the slow and purposeful USR if the player chooses.

Move 6'', yea im deciding to use that.. now i can still fire (instead of rolling 2d6'' for movement)

Inquis Force Weapons ignore Instant Death

Crushing Claws make Living Battering Ram useless

Old One Eye cannot use Living Battering Ram as it states "a Carnifex which charges". OOE isnt a Carni. (Same argument that DoM isn't a Zoanthrope.)

All the instances referring to a "Large Blast Template", whereas there are only "Large Blast Markers"

Turret flamers on vehicles are generally unusable because they overlap a friendly model.

Nork Deddog is not an Ogryn.

=][= chimeras that become open-topped when inquisitorial stormtroopers shoot out of them, but IG chimeras that are cheaper and aren't open topped ever.

Swarmlord is not a Hive Tyrant.

Lurk doesn't work because you cannot check to see if you are out of range without declaring shooting, at which point it is too late to run.

ghost11 wrote:

Great list, it exposes the level of rules lawyering that some threads enshrine.

And of course there's the troll corollary:

* "Looks like GW fixed that odd clause in their errata, so your 'ruling' is wrong."
* (sneering) "No, GW is wrong."

Well done!

I dont think anyone says that GW Erratas are wrong, GW FAQs however, have frequently incorrect clarifications.

ArbitorIan wrote:\

- 'Moves like Jump Infantry' does not mean 'uses all the movement rules for Jump Infantry', so some models with Wings cannot Deep Strike.

Uh. . . care to explain your reasoning on that? As far as I can tell, "moves like Jump infantry" DOES, in fact, mean "uses all the movement rules for Jump Infantry", and so all models with Wings can, in fact, Deep Strike.

It doesn't, but lets not go down that road please.

No arguements, just RAW inconsistencies.

I'm in YMDC, so I already know that I'm going to lose...

But don't you think we have a ridiculous standard for rules?

I imagine the guys at GW seeing stuff like this and saying 'Really? Do we have to spell it out that much?'

I know it's fun to argue RAW but considering half the RAW arguments end with 'Not that anyone would play that way anyways', why does it matter?

It seems like this trend is pretty close to the 'Caution: Do not place hand in blender' warning stickers or the 'Contents Hot' lawsuits. How much spelling out is required?

Valkyrie wrote:Inquis Force Weapons ignore Instant Death

Crushing Claws make Living Battering Ram useless

Old One Eye cannot use Living Battering Ram as it states "a Carnifex which charges". OOE isnt a Carni. (Same argument that DoM isn't a Zoanthrope.)

All the instances referring to a "Large Blast Template", whereas there are only "Large Blast Markers"

Why does it matter that OOe can't use Living Battering Ram? All his attacks are at I1, anyway.

Klawz wrote:

Valkyrie wrote:Inquis Force Weapons ignore Instant Death

Crushing Claws make Living Battering Ram useless

Old One Eye cannot use Living Battering Ram as it states "a Carnifex which charges". OOE isnt a Carni. (Same argument that DoM isn't a Zoanthrope.)

All the instances referring to a "Large Blast Template", whereas there are only "Large Blast Markers"

Why does it matter that OOe can't use Living Battering Ram? All his attacks are at I1, anyway.

Initiative Tests

As said, don't ruin the thread with arguing.

Bjorn the Fellhanded has 4+ inv save which he cannot use (which Gwar! cleverly pointed out).

nyyman wrote:As said, don't ruin the thread with arguing.

Bjorn the Fellhanded has 4+ inv save which he cannot use (which Gwar! cleverly pointed out).

Actually, it's a 5+, and yes, even though it says he may take the 5+ save against Glancing or Penetrating hits, there are no rules as to what passing the save actually does, unlike cover saves which clearly outline that the hit is discarded.

nyyman wrote:Bjorn the Fellhanded has 4+ inv save which he cannot use (which Gwar! cleverly pointed out).

This was wrong. Gwar's argument was based on a (supposedly) missing line in his codex. Bjorn's invulnerable save works just fine.

Thanks, have included a load of these in the list. Keep em coming. I've tried not to include ones that are just "two different-era codices have two different-era rules" unless they actually result in an absurd in-game situation...

TopC wrote:Broadsides, Advanced stabilization system.
may use the slow and purposeful USR if the player chooses.
Move 6'', yea im deciding to use that.. now i can still fire (instead of rolling 2d6'' for movement)

Not sure I understand why this is game-breaking, rather than just a bad choice. You can choose to equip Broadsides with Advanced SS. If you take it, they can move d6" and fire their railguns, otherwise they have to stay still to fire them. EDIT - Oh, no, now i understand. That really is stupid, so it's going in...

Valkyrie wrote:All the instances referring to a "Large Blast Template", whereas there are only "Large Blast Markers"

This is FANTASTIC. Any ideas which weapons these are?

insaniak wrote:

nyyman wrote:Bjorn the Fellhanded has 4+ inv save which he cannot use (which Gwar! cleverly pointed out).

This was wrong. Gwar's argument was based on a (supposedly) missing line in his codex. Bjorn's invulnerable save works just fine.

My Argument WAS based on a missing line.

However, my NEW argument based on the actual line from the codex, is that nowhere does it tell you what to do if you pass the save. For Wounds, it clearly states the wound is ignored. For Cover saves, it clearly states the hit is discarded. There is no such wording for Invulnerable saves on vehicles. So Bjorn can take the save, but it doesn't do anything even if it is passed.

ArbitorIan wrote:This is FANTASTIC. Any ideas which weapons these are?

Pretty much everything, from Dark Eldar to Tyranids. See the new INAT for some examples from the Nid Codex, I'll grab my DE codex and check there.

And before someone tries it, even in 3rd ed, the rulebook called them Blast Markers.

Edit: Well bugger me sideways the DE codex calls them Markers.

ArbitorIan wrote:Thanks, have included a load of these in the list. Keep em coming. I've tried not to include ones that are just "two different-era codices have two different-era rules" unless they actually result in an absurd in-game situation...

TopC wrote:Broadsides, Advanced stabilization system.
may use the slow and purposeful USR if the player chooses.
Move 6'', yea im deciding to use that.. now i can still fire (instead of rolling 2d6'' for movement)

Move 6''
Then declare use of ASS

You moved 6'' w/o having to roll a 6 ont he dice, and can still shoot..

Ramshackle for Ork Turks never triggers as there are no 'Vehicle Destroyed!' or 'Vehicle Explodes!' results on the damage chart, there is instead 'Destroyed - Wrecked' and 'Destroyed - Explodes!'

Vehicles that are purchased in Squadrons that are purchased as a Squadron of one (for example, a Single Leman Russ or a Single Vendetta) remain Squadrons (and follow the Squadron Rules) until the first time they are shot at by the enemy. The upshot is if the aforementioned vehicle fails a Dangerous Terrain test prior to being shot at by an enemy and becomes Immobilised, the Squadron rules kick in and it is Wrecked instead.

Spore mines aren't removed when they explode though they can damage themselves meaning they would instantly explode twice in most cases!

Spore mines can move and assault normally they just have a forced d6" movement at the start of the turn (nothing states that replaces their normal movement or that they cannot assault).

The Swarmlord can use his psychic powers they just function differently. He can't regain wounds from leech but Paroxysm last for ver (as it ends on the Hive Tyrants next turn which of course he isn't).

Shrike can't inflitrate with a unit that doesn't already have infiltrate because you can't join a unit until after it is deployed at which point infiltrate is somewhat useless to them.

Another one:
The monolith gains attacks as it gets weapon destroyed results,
"Each 'weapon destroyed' result inflicted on the Monolith reduces the number of shots at each target by -1"
Reducing by -1 is the same as adding +1.


Off-topic: Gwar! how do you have no title under your name? Too many posts?

Oh.

*twitch*

It's like a Who's Who of RAW madness.

...

I need a shower.

FlingitNow wrote:Spore mines can move and assault normally they just have a forced d6" movement at the start of the turn (nothing states that replaces their normal movement or that they cannot assault).

Actually, since the Living Bomb rule doesn't specifically state that this D6 is additional movement, they would still be bound by the rule restricting them to moving 6" in a phase. So the best you could do would be to move the D6", and then move however far you have left to make it up to 6" in total.

So, effectively, Spore Mines just have a 6" movement like any other infantry, but D6" of it will be in a random direction.

And due to the rule that says that after moving a unit you can not move on to a different unit and then come back to the first and change it, the 'normal' movement would have to be made immediately after the compulsory movement, before moving any other units.

Actually, since the Living Bomb rule doesn't specifically state that this D6 is additional movement, they would still be bound by the rule restricting them to moving 6" in a phase. So the best you could do would be to move the D6", and then move however far you have left to make it up to 6" in total.

So, effectively, Spore Mines just have a 6" movement like any other infantry, but D6" of it will be in a random direction.

And due to the rule that says that after moving a unit you can not move on to a different unit and then come back to the first and change it, the 'normal' movement would have to be made immediately after the compulsory movement, before moving any other units.

Nice catch they can still assault though .

Another one:
The monolith gains attacks as it gets weapon destroyed results,
"Each 'weapon destroyed' result inflicted on the Monolith reduces the number of shots at each target by -1"
Reducing by -1 is the same as adding +1.

This is a common one to many negative modifers through out the game.

ArbitorIan wrote:- Models without eyes cannot shoot. (The rulebook requires you to check line of sight from the model's eyes. Wraithlords, for example, do not have any)

This is mostly silly on the part of people who claim it in relation to such things as wraithlords, if you are to say they do not have eyes, then you can just as easily say any model with a helmet that covers their face such as a space marine does not have eyes, or at the very least that they are blocked and a line can never be traced between them and the target. Just a pet peeve of mine that most people don't realise how far ranging this would actually be.