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Ive seen many posts lately, regarding upgrades so several armies. Now, as a necron player, I really think they need a few models rules etc to be made, now what do you think?

I'm going to move this to a more relevant board.

The Monolith needs the most updating. Sorry but a vehicle that can not be destroyed with Str 8 weapons unless it is a Melta is too powerful, Esp since it's main weapopn can not be destroyed.

I've never played with them but have played against them plenty of times they are about right although I agree that the Monolith is too powerful and C'Tan are a pain in the ass

i do feel that the monolith is a tad too overpowered as well, also the c'tan, but i think if they lowered a few things here and there, they would be ok (In my Opinion). though, what im mostly looking for are a bit more heavy support or TROOP choices. But a dream come true for me would be a boxed set of 3 PLASTIC wraiths....

At the moment, necrons are underpowered. The Monolith is somewhat difficult to kill, but the troops suck, and it has the downside of vanishing if 75% of troops are dead.

I think people would be fine with some monolith balancing if the other selections of the army were made better and all the rules were updated to work with the 5th edition state of the game.

Why are the only options either "Very Badly" or "Not Really"? lol...

I think Necrons could benefit from a mild upgrade and some tweaks here and though. Sure, some of the newer codices have benefited from the inevitable 'power creep' that's an understandable part of successive codex releases, but back in the day the Necrons were all-powerful kill bots or terror and the the other armies had to catch up before they could overtake them.

I'd say they definitely need a few extra units, maybe a vehicle of some description (not a transport though) and a few tweaks and they'll be as good as new!

tes


Automatically Appended Next Post:
yes

Anything that's not 5th Ed needs updating, and especially those that aren't even 4th ed. Their models and rules both need an overhaul.

They definitely need one, but I am getting tired of the people who are whining about how they need one (One of my friends, sadly, is one of these). I know it was someone else's words here, but consider the hundreds of Squat players back in the day - how would you like to be a player whose army was phased out of existence?

Personally, if it wasn't for the phase out,the horid balance issues of the monolith, and the fact that my favourite units (pariahs and immortals look so cool) are plastic, I'd finish the army I started, basic infantry who can strip waepons off vehicles... yes please.

Not that I play them but I think Deamon Hunter and Dark Eldar need an update far more than Necrons

Meh, I want to keep my old style force weapons, not sure a new codex is worth the risk

I think more than anything I just want to see options for Necrons. I don't like the fact that 90% of Necron lists share all the same units. More HQ choices, more troop choices, and more options for the units.

How could anyone say not really?

The Monolith is an atrocious mess of special rules and everyone hates it.

The WBB rule is incredibly cumbersome.

The army has really poor AT capacity.

The army has terrible CC capacity.

The army is filled with stinker units no one plays.

The army needs more than 2 plastic models.

So the two answers, instead of a simple yes or no, are biased.

Therefore, I voted both. Do they need a new codex? Sure. Should they benefit a bit from some codex creep? Why not. But they are far from massively underpowered. Mostly they just need to be revamped (WBB -> FNP for one).

I vote they need an update and rebalancing, but "very badly" is somewhat sensationalist.

jbunny wrote:The Monolith needs the most updating. Sorry but a vehicle that can not be destroyed with Str 8 weapons unless it is a Melta is too powerful, Esp since it's main weapopn can not be destroyed.

I'd like to see the Living Metal rule changed to a 4+ save vs any damage rolls. Still leaves it as a super durable tank, while balancing out it's destructibility across the different army lines. Armies like Sisters and Eldar, who rely on Meltas and Lances are hosed when it comes to trying to kill one, while Tau just snicker that someone would field one against them. Keeping the Energy Matrix (aka Particle Whip) immune to Weapon Destroyed and Stunned results keeps it as an indomitable force, but making the Gauss Flux Arc destroyed after six hits to it is an obvious fix to update it to current vehicle rules.

While I'm at it, I'll restate my general wish list for Necrons as a whole.

1.) Change We'll Be Back into Feel No Pain. WBB is just an overly complicated rule that in the end has the same general effect as the MUCH simpler FNP. Yes, I'm sure "You" understand exactly how WBB works in all possible circumstances, but So Many people get the rule and all of it's interactions wrong So Often. Yes, FNP is a nerf to a couple unit's (mostly destroyers) durability from enemy shooting, but it's a buff to every unit's melee, as they'll get to make their attacks back after passing their saves, and melee is where we need the help.

2.) To further help Necrons in melee, without simply making them better at it, give all Necrons LD10, and an uber stubborn rule where they are Always and Forever LD10 and NOTHING can override or lower their LD to Anything other than LD10 for Any reason or purpose. OMG so Broken, right?! Keep reading...

3.) Phase Out. It's fluffy, but it really kills the army and the variety of units you can take as you constantly need to watch that Phase Out count. Instead put Phase Out on the Unit level, where if they fail a Moral Check, they Phase Out and the Unit is removed from the table, with no chance of coming back or saving, just gone. With the #2 change it'd be really hard to break `em, but when you do they suffer for it, and who wants to see robots running away in fear anyway?

Aduro wrote:
1.) Change We'll Be Back into Feel No Pain. WBB is just an overly complicated rule that in the end has the same general effect as the MUCH simpler FNP. Yes, I'm sure "You" understand exactly how WBB works in all possible circumstances, but So Many people get the rule and all of it's interactions wrong So Often. Yes, FNP is a nerf to a couple unit's (mostly destroyers) durability from enemy shooting, but it's a buff to every unit's melee, as they'll get to make their attacks back after passing their saves, and melee is where we need the help.

2.) To further help Necrons in melee, without simply making them better at it, give all Necrons LD10, and an uber stubborn rule where they are Always and Forever LD10 and NOTHING can override or lower their LD to Anything other than LD10 for Any reason or purpose. OMG so Broken, right?! Keep reading...

3.) Phase Out. It's fluffy, but it really kills the army and the variety of units you can take as you constantly need to watch that Phase Out count. Instead put Phase Out on the Unit level, where if they fail a Moral Check, they Phase Out and the Unit is removed from the table, with no chance of coming back or saving, just gone. With the #2 change it'd be really hard to break `em, but when you do they suffer for it, and who wants to see robots running away in fear anyway?

I like it, seems more fluffy that they would phase out instead of running away, just mathmatically really, I see them fighting implacably right up until the odds turn against them, when they decide there's nothing to be gained and phase out to minimise losses. Maybe have it so the Monolith can prevent them phasing if its nearby so they just come through the portal on the front?

I've always thought they should give 'crons fearless, but I like the phase-out instead of run idea too. It works. Currently, the rules have units running from close combat left and right and it just doesn't fit the army fluff.

The only thing I disagree with most people here on is replacing WBB with FNP, even though I know that is where they will probably go. I started playing crons in 2e and the thing I liked most about the army was that they got knocked down and several turns later they might get up. It had a neat feel to it. With 3e, they changed it to phase out or be back on the next turn but it still has that "you thought they were dead, but you're wrong!" feel that no other army in the game has. FNP just feels like an extra save. No big whoop. Sure it would be better in many ways (and worse in a few) and sure it will mean no special rules for the army not already in the rulebook, but I like the idea of armies having a few special rules all their own like 'nids and synapse or Orks and the Waaaaaagh!

Nuadha wrote:I've always thought they should give 'crons fearless, but I like the phase-out instead of run idea too. It works. Currently, the rules have units running from close combat left and right and it just doesn't fit the army fluff.

The only thing I disagree with most people here on is replacing WBB with FNP, even though I know that is where they will probably go. I started playing crons in 2e and the thing I liked most about the army was that they got knocked down and several turns later they might get up. It had a neat feel to it. With 3e, they changed it to phase out or be back on the next turn but it still has that "you thought they were dead, but you're wrong!" feel that no other army in the game has. FNP just feels like an extra save. No big whoop. Sure it would be better in many ways (and worse in a few) and sure it will mean no special rules for the army not already in the rulebook, but I like the idea of armies having a few special rules all their own like 'nids and synapse or Orks and the Waaaaaagh!

Good point, I suppose it does help give them that unique feel, and where would we be with Res Orb Lords?

So this means that at current count we have:

69 people who understand how 5th Ed works and 9 people who don't.

H.B.M.C. wrote:So this means that at current count we have:

69 people who understand how 5th Ed works and 9 people who don't.

why didn't I think of that

As it stands what is good and what is bad about Necrons? What could bring them in line?

good - all guns can at least strip weapons/immobilise vehicles, WBB, tough as a marine, slow(i know its not really a good thing but i thinks its appropriate).
Bad - Monolith is broken, Phase out sucks and deathless robot skeletons should not run away

Oh yes they need an update. And to tell you guys the truth I find the monolith a joke, along with the C'tan god. You need monoliths for your army, but the C'tan is a point sink.

Almost every model in the army is hardly usable except for a small few. And as for the C'tan, if my opponent is taking that, I know that he doesn't have that second monolith, and there went half of their strategy.

They need an update, along with dark eldar being first.

TheTrueProtoman wrote: They need an update, along with dark eldar being first.

I would say Necrons need it first. Dark Eldar are at least still semi-competitive; Talos (Taloses? Talosi?) can get really nasty, and you'd be amazed at how quick those DE can get into assault with you. Plus, the sheer number of Dark Lances you can take in lists can be astonishing if you play it right. Necrons, OTOH, have only survivability on their end; very low power (Other than lots of Gauss shots and a particle whip) slow speed (No long range assault weaponry, and no transports other than leaving things in Reserve and letting them come out of the lith) and of course, the Phase Out rule to stop them from pulling a victory out of their arse when the chips are down.

DEATH89 wrote:

H.B.M.C. wrote:So this means that at current count we have:

69 people who understand how 5th Ed works and 9 people who don't.

why didn't I think of that

+1

Locclo wrote:

TheTrueProtoman wrote: They need an update, along with dark eldar being first.

I would say Necrons need it first. Dark Eldar are at least still semi-competitive; Talos (Taloses? Talosi?) can get really nasty, and you'd be amazed at how quick those DE can get into assault with you. Plus, the sheer number of Dark Lances you can take in lists can be astonishing if you play it right. Necrons, OTOH, have only survivability on their end; very low power (Other than lots of Gauss shots and a particle whip) slow speed (No long range assault weaponry, and no transports other than leaving things in Reserve and letting them come out of the lith) and of course, the Phase Out rule to stop them from pulling a victory out of their arse when the chips are down.

Well this is true, and I do hear that Dark eldar can assault turn one. I definitely know that necrons need it for the reason of variety and for fun. Nothing they can take is fun, nothing they do for strategy is fun, and the options that they can take equal no fun, disruption fields or no disruption fields.

So what route to take them?

Dark Eldar are assault oriented from what it sounds like, (dunno, never played against them).

Tau, of course, are the shooty shooty army. Trade off is weak assault.

SM are baseline army.

Eldar are shooty and assaulty, but fragile.

Maybe the Necron should be the opposite of Eldar, due to the fact that they are supposed to be the antithesis of Eldar? (Besides Chaos....but I digress).

Make the Necrons more durable, but less shooty? Like having FNP, high armor saves and other good saves? I'd like to see a no phase out rule that's more in line like the SM lastman standing rule. No pinning, no LD tests, straight up unstoppable and the only way to kill these guys is to shoot the crap out of them, or run up and try to hack em to pieces.