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So I was playing my brother yesterday(thats in batreps) and this morning with my cron army.

Yesterday I charged my Nightbringer into CC with 4 termies accompanied by a librarian in termi armor. I killed 3 termis, the fourth was out of CC range, and I instant deathed the librarian.

Today, my brother foolishly charged 5 terminators w/ librarian and cato sicarius into close combat with my with four flayed ones. They only left one standing(somehow). I then charged my nightbringer into them, I was within 1'' of all. I got all six hits and rolled six 2+'s. All of them died.(instant deathed librarian[again] and cato, no invul saves allowed)

The night bringer can not be caused instant death by weapons whose special rules cause instant death. The night bringer cannot be instant deathed by weapons double it's toughness, as there is no S16 weapon. The night bringer IGNORES both armor saves, and invulnerable saves. The night bringer is S10 T8, enough to instant death ALOT of enemy units. He has 5 wunds, 5 attacks, and a 24'' lascannon equivalent. He is fearless and enemy units must roll leader ship test to assault him. Models he has killed cannot be brought back in anyway. He is an MC, and can penetrate 14 armor with ease.

So, would you use the nightbringer in normal games(if it is allowed) even though it is kind of cheap, OP, and would like upset more than a few people? My brother seems to think it is cheap(360 pts? ha I dont thinkso) and unfair of me to use it, even though it is allowed.

This isn't about whether or not Nightbringer/ necrons are getting the big fat nerf gun in there next codex, so please dont bring it up or argue: "HUUUUUR you get da nerfz anyway DUUUURHUUUR".

First off, you're understanding of the CC rules is a bit off. There is no such thing as "out of CC range" when it comes to wound allocation. A guy can be too far away to make his own attacks, and still suffer a wound if the controlling player chooses to allocate one to him.

Also, when resolving CC make sure you're treating independent characters like separate units. You need to allocate attacks to them separately from the unit that they are with, as per the rules for multiple combats.

It sounds like your brother needs to learn not to try to fight the Nightbringer in CC. It's incredibly expensive, and slow. Rather than whining that it's too powerful, if he brings units to make his army more well rounded, and more capable of taking out tough targets at range, then he should better be able to deal with it. Usually the Nightbringer is not overpowered, because he's just not worth the points, and the fact that he makes your army easier to phase out.

Humm first off C'tan are not immune to instant death. T8 makes doubling its toughness impossible, but force weapons, bone swords etc still kill it.

Second you are talking about a 350 point model that can be shot down before ever needing to be dealt with in in CC. T8 with a 4++ is not that impressively tough. If you get into CC with it for any reason other than tarpitting, then you are fighting it in its element. Taking on such a powerful model in its element is a poor strategy.

~15 ML shots should be good enough to destroy the C'tan, over a couple turns pouring focus fire into the C'tan is really the best way to do it. Snipers and hellfire are also solid option for forcing many saves.

The point is, your friend is doing it wrong.

Not that the Nightbringer is OP. You get a better bang for your buck with the Deceiver anyways.

I actually don't think he's that big a deal. That's 360 wasted points if my Sternguard get a good shot at him...

As a side note, this thread shouldn't be in YMDC, it's much better suited for General Discussion or something else.

NB is not the most "overpowered" unit in the game, Scouts with sniper rifles love him...

He's slow, so shoot him with lascannons before you worry, and he's dead.

As Tri mentioned - if you wanted to attack the Libby you MUST direct attacks at it, as it is a seperate unit in close combat. Additionally 5attacks that hit on 4s or 3s is only a coupld of wounds - you just rolled very well to get 3 plus the libby.

How is that YMDC?
Anyway, the Nightbringer is individually powerful, but for 300+ points, it better be. Sniperfire, Lascannons, Sternguard; there's plenty of ways to kill it.
But since this is necrons, you're not even required to engage it, just kill warriors and watch it pop out of existance.

willydstyle wrote:First off, you're understanding of the CC rules is a bit off. There is no such thing as "out of CC range" when it comes to wound allocation. A guy can be too far away to make his own attacks, and still suffer a wound if the controlling player chooses to allocate one to him.

Also, when resolving CC make sure you're treating independent characters like separate units. You need to allocate attacks to them separately from the unit that they are with, as per the rules for multiple combats.

It sounds like your brother needs to learn not to try to fight the Nightbringer in CC. It's incredibly expensive, and slow. Rather than whining that it's too powerful, if he brings units to make his army more well rounded, and more capable of taking out tough targets at range, then he should better be able to deal with it. Usually the Nightbringer is not overpowered, because he's just not worth the points, and the fact that he makes your army easier to phase out.

Ill let my brother know about the CC stuff. He actually did have quite a bit firing at my nightbringer both yesterdays(3 LCs, 1 multimelta, 2 krak missiles) game and todays(3LCs, 2 TL LCs, 2 kraks, librarian psychic stuff). I actually brought him because phase out wasnt really affected(it was him or scarab swarms, neither of which are Necrons). With out him it was 11.75 models and phase out(12), with him it was 11.50(still 12).

Ill easpecially let him know about the whining part >

Sorry , where is the rule / call question ?
This needs to be moved.

nosferatu1001 wrote:NB is not the most "overpowered" unit in the game, Scouts with sniper rifles love him...

He's slow, so shoot him with lascannons before you worry, and he's dead.

As Tri mentioned - if you wanted to attack the Libby you MUST direct attacks at it, as it is a seperate unit in close combat. Additionally 5attacks that hit on 4s or 3s is only a coupld of wounds - you just rolled very well to get 3 plus the libby.

Since when am I Tri?

Yes use him,

Necrons need all the help they can get

Worry willy, having avatar confusion today...

Yeah go against a Nightbringer in CC and you don't stand much of a chance.

One of the best way to kill the 'Bringer: Sternguard Vets: Drop 10 of them in and rapid fire the Hellfire Rounds, that's 20 shots, wounding on 4+ and with a really absurd 4+ save, he shouldn't last long.

20 shots - 13 hits, 7 wounds, 3 wounds go past invulnerable save. Fairly dead in one turn.

Drop Pod + Sternguard + Librarian (Null Zone) = Big waste of 360 points

Valkyrie wrote:Yeah go against a Nightbringer in CC and you don't stand much of a chance.

One of the best way to kill the 'Bringer: Sternguard Vets: Drop 10 of them in and rapid fire the Hellfire Rounds, that's 20 shots, wounding on 4+ and with a really absurd 4+ save, he shouldn't last long.

Don't those wound on a 2+, not a 4+...............??
So it's 20 shots - 13 hits, 10 or 11 wounds, 5 or 6 wounds go past invulnerable save.

Course, as IG, I just use Ratling Snipers.................Takes longer, but as mentioned, he's slow, I've got time.

Take the deceiver instead. The night bringer gets his lil bitty las canon, and then gets shot into oblivion in the opponent's shooting phase. Woooo, 360 points down the drain.

The Deceiver, on the other hand, is one of the most irritating units in the game, and is quite capable of annoying your enemies to the point of throwing up their hands and quitting. The deceiver has a morale check gun that effects fearless units, and is capable of denying enemies both their shooting and assault phases by slamming into an enemy unit during the necron assault phase, hiding out until the enemy assault phase, and then making a fall back move of 2d6 away from the target.

If he damaged the unit a lot last turn, he can then make them run away with his fear gun, and if not, he can repeat the process. His defensive stats are identical to that of the nightbringer, and his offensive stats, comperably are -1s (woo, he's a S9 monsterous creature. on average he rolls a 16 to penetrate and a 2+ to wound. not a big deal) -1A +1I. His bonus initiative means he usually goes first, and thus always takes fewer hits than his stupider, more expensive cousin.

I've seen smart deceiver players control about three squads of the enemy infantry just using the deceiver, which left the rest of the necron army free to overrun the rest of the board.

Imo, the best way to kill the nightbringer is just to lay into him with some high-strength high-shot weapons, assault and autocannon equivalents) or simply to run him over with your own massive IC. Abbadon the despoiler, Hive Tyrants w/ Hive guard, and a Lashing DP are all good choices, especially since you can just lash him off the board.

To answer the question... is the unit a legal Codex choice?

The answer is yes. If you can take it, use it. Uber units like the Nightbringer can be easily avoided and shot from range.

Pulling punches guarantees no one learns anything other than "whining works".

Google Comp Onion.

I am moving this thread to 40K Tactics.

IMO: since it means a sooner phase-out, bring him.

And furthermore, sniper rifles would love it.

The avatar is 100 times more scary than a nightbringer. With fortune, he is pretty much unkillable, and he boosts the army with his fearless buble. In addition, he is cheap too. The nightbringer might work against noobs, but against a decent army, he will be avoided and gunned down. A deciever is better, and can work decently as a goal-keeper for the necrons

The nightbringer would own the avatar in the face.

And? For the price of the Nightbringer, you can get an Avatar and enough Rangers to make Nightbringer cry

The Green Git wrote:To answer the question... is the unit a legal Codex choice?

The answer is yes. If you can take it, use it. Uber units like the Nightbringer can be easily avoided and shot from range.

Pulling punches guarantees no one learns anything other than "whining works".

I wish I could "like" this post a la Facebook.



Swarmlord rapes the Nightbringer, by the by. Especially after Paroxysm.

Deceiver is superior because it can do things other than get kited around the table.

willydstyle wrote:The nightbringer would own the avatar in the face.

Yes, but the avatar actually boosts the army he is included in, instead of hurting it like the nightbringer. And as said, he is really cheap

If you guys read my earlier posts, you should know that I don't think the Nightbringer is a good choice, let alone an "overpowered" one, but I was responding to the comment that the Avatar is nearly invincible.

I also think that the Deceiver is a superior choice to the Nightbringer because all the Nightbringer really adds to your army is a big stat bar.

The Nightbringer does not have a res orb. If you take the nightbringer you lose a res orb.

Being fearless is a double edged sword for the nightbringer. The easiest way for Chaos to kill the nightbringer in CC would be as follows.

Multi charge the nightbringer and a squad of necron warriors with squad A

Charge the warriors with squad B and an HQ or other assault unit like a defiler.

Results=The nightbringer kills 5 CSM from squad A, squad A, squad B, and the HQ/Defiler kills 10 necron warriors. The nightbringer now needs to make 5 invos because of fearless.

The only thing the nightbringer brings to the table is a big stat bar. He has no res orb, and if the enemy focuses on killing warriors instead of the nightbringer the nightbringer will just end up phasing out just like every other necron.

Necrons are weak as gak in this edition, hell yeah bring Nightbringer! Anyone who cries cheese needs to pipe down as Crons need all the help they can get this edition.

Obviously your brother needs to work on his tactics. If he's throwing his terminator unit into a position to get assaulted by an infantry speed unit that ignores ALL saves, then it's his own fault...


The question is.. Would I use Nightbringer? Yes, as he adds the counter assault element to Necrons that they don't have and deals with nob bikers / TH/SS termies decently well.

Meh Every cron army I face uses a monolith. If they take night bringer as well I just focus fire on the warriors & phase them out. If it's a meat grinder mission a few solid railguns drops C'Tan fairly fast.