Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

The nightbringer can easily be downed by that antitank fire you should have that probably won't do any good against a monolith. You can always sniper fire it down, or smack it with lash of submission. Even better, if your playing chaos and feeling risky, run typhus and pray that you cause an unsaved wound, then just pop it with his force weapon.

The nercon force is just resilient, but any smart player can force them around and down what needs to be killed easily. If you charge a nightbringer, you're probably going to lose. Assault armies have issues with him, but if you just shot at him some and didn't charge in like a ar-tard, he wouldn't matter at all would he?

If you read my post, you would see I was saying "The nightbringer isn't a big deal, so bring him every time if you want", sadly some morons can't see the message in the words.

Re-posted for people who don't want to buy new eyes from the doctor:

So I was playing my brother yesterday(thats in batreps) and this morning with my cron army.

Yesterday I charged my Nightbringer into CC with 4 termies accompanied by a librarian in termi armor. I killed 3 termis, the fourth was out of CC range, and I instant deathed the librarian.

Today, my brother foolishly charged 5 terminators w/ librarian and cato sicarius into close combat with my with four flayed ones. They only left one standing(somehow). I then charged my nightbringer into them, I was within 1'' of all. I got all six hits and rolled six 2+'s. All of them died.(instant deathed librarian[again] and cato, no invul saves allowed)

The night bringer can not be caused instant death by weapons whose special rules cause instant death. The night bringer cannot be instant deathed by weapons double it's toughness, as there is no S16 weapon. The night bringer IGNORES both armor saves, and invulnerable saves. The night bringer is S10 T8, enough to instant death ALOT of enemy units. He has 5 wunds, 5 attacks, and a 24'' lascannon equivalent. He is fearless and enemy units must roll leader ship test to assault him. Models he has killed cannot be brought back in anyway. He is an MC, and can penetrate 14 armor with ease.

So, would you use the nightbringer in normal games(if it is allowed) even though it is kind of cheap, OP, and would like upset more than a few people? My brother seems to think it is cheap(360 pts? ha I dont thinkso) and unfair of me to use it, even though it is allowed.

This isn't about whether or not Nightbringer/ necrons are getting the big fat nerf gun in there next codex, so please dont bring it up or argue: "HUUUUUR you get da nerfz anyway DUUUURHUUUR".

The deciever is better in general, he's cheaper, can usually wreck combat just as bad and gets to choose when he fights courtesy of misdirection.

That being said, pretty much every army has a way to deal with either of the c'tan especially marines. 1 full squad of Sternguard using hellfires and we're done here, the libby with null-zone is entirely optional because the Sternguards are already averaging enough wounds to do the job. Most armies have some sort of response to the c'tan who make their lives short and uneventful:

-IG have Vendettas, 3TTLC and 2HBs a turn on a fast skimmer almost everyone uses. Combine that with Chimeras and Hydras that are also staples of IG lists and the C'tan aren't crossing the table

-SM have Sternguard, as mentioned poisoned shots wounding on 2's combined with rapid fire = dead C'tan. There's other ways to do it, but this is just the shortest and fastest

-Orks have lootas, they need 5's to wound, but most Ork lists run 30-45 lootas lobbing D3 shots a turn at 48" away. Since the lootas don't have transports to pop this frees them up nicely to score a Star God kill

-CSM have lash, while not a way to kill the C'tan you can keep them on a treadmill for the better part of the game as you engage the rest of the army

-SW have long fangs, jesus do they have long fangs, and they remind of this every damn game with 3 dirt cheap squads all packing missiles or lascannons


You'll notice I didn't mention melee options for fighting a C'tan, this is mostly because the assumption is that you'll be running the deciever who can just misdirect out of any combat where there is a threat. If you have the nightbringer, units with massed rending become a viable solution and characters like typhus enter the fray. In general, top tier lists are going to be able to respond to a C'tan without too much ado if you're just trying to use it like a bulldozer. Combining them with liths to block LoS and control fire lines is a better strategy, and pretty much the only way to run crons successfully in a competitive environment at this point.

The problem here is that the SM player is inexperienced in how to take down The Nightbringer.

Space marines have the single best combination in the game for killing the Nightbringer.

9 Sterngaurd in a Rhino with an attached librarian.

Rhino moves 12" towards the nightbringer and pops everybody out within 12" of the nightbringer.

Librarian activates Null Zone

9 Sterngaurd rapid fire.
Mathhammer 18 shots=12 hits=10 wounds
Nightbringer makes 5/10 invos, and Null zone forces the nightbringer to re roll all 5 successes bringing the # of successful saves down from 5 to 2.5 resulting in the nightbringer taking 7.5 wounds.

The Nightbringer can't survive 7 failed invo rolls
The Nightbringer can't survive 6 failed invo rolls
The Nightbringer can't survive 5 failed invo rolls

Even with significantly below average rolls 9 sterngaurd plus a librarian should cause the nightbringer to fail 5 invos.

I remember when I used to have necrons the nightbringer died to just krak missles. Then when I went up to a necron player I killed the nightbringer the same way, I really don't find that slow expensive guy that good, since eldar have a similar model that's far cheaper.

The Nightbringer is beginning to get outclassed by new army IMO. The new SW codex has this psychic power 'jaws of the world wolf', you roll a dice, if you get higher then your initiative you die. No arguements. A 6 auto fails. My Nightbringer and Deciever both always die from this. The new IG codex, lots of Lascannons. However it depends on the size of game. The Nightbringer can only be played in 750pt plus games, in which it is powerful but leaves your troops vulnerable, however it then again depends on your opponents list, at this points they will have very little that can do anything to the Nightbringer, and they could be easily killed by it. It is all about trial and error.

I love facing the Nightbringer. All I have to do is throw a boyz mob at him and he's pretty much out of the game. He gets to kills some 6 point models and the powerklaw eventually cuts him down to size. Same thing for the swarmlord or other nasty MCs with a few devastatingly powerful attacks.

EDIT:
In response to the OP: the Nightbringer is not the most overpowered model in the game. That cake goes to Abbadon or the Swarmlord...I know Abbadon owns the Nightbringer in CC.

phantommaster wrote:The Nightbringer is beginning to get outclassed by new army IMO. The new SW codex has this psychic power 'jaws of the world wolf', you roll a dice, if you get higher then your initiative you die. No arguements.

Don't forget you get a -1 to your roll

This is a lot of hate for the Nightbringer...I use him all the time in 1850+ games and just used him in a large tournment last weekend. He did incredibly well. All I keep hearing is how many units can kill the Nightbringer...which quite a few can. But they always take about the matchup as if it was in a vacuum and the Nightbringer had nowhere to hide and no chance of reaching CC and no supporting units...

Out of 30+ SM players at the mentioned tournament, not a 1 brought a full unit of Sternguard...I don't think anyone brought any Sternguard. And getting killed with JOWW is a 1/6 chance and can be avoided to a degree.

The Nightbringer is not a silver bullet, but he's not some anchor that keeps a Necron army from being competitive. I'd let my opponents argue that for me if I could.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Culler wrote:I love facing the Nightbringer. All I have to do is throw a boyz mob at him and he's pretty much out of the game. He gets to kills some 6 point models and the powerklaw eventually cuts him down to size. Same thing for the swarmlord or other nasty MCs with a few devastatingly powerful attacks.

That's when he should use Etheric Tempest or his large pie plate of Str 4 goodness to thin out the orks. I love facing Orks...if I'm able to take out the battlewagons carrying something scary, that is...those things hurt.

I play with Nightbringer about half the time if playing larger point games. I don't agree with using him in lower point games as he does feel overpowered in those games, but if your opponent is good he can still phase you out pretty easy in a low point game if you took NB.

In games about 1500-2000 pts, he feels fair.

In games over that amount, the opponent will usually have enougth stuff to kill him easy.

360 points is a lot of points to spend on him. Think about it. That is the same as taking 7 Destroyers or two ten man squad of Warriors.

I like him. He's fun. He can be competitive because people may not be prepared to deal with him, but generally I say he is a waste of points.

I have used the nightbrnger is normal 40k games in the past and it is a perfectly viabl and legal option.

The downside, as has already been stated, is that it is so expensive! For the same price you can get a squad of 10 warriors and avoid phase out.

The main problem with the nightbringer is it's speed, if it coudl move faster it would make the price tag easier to swallow.

@OP:

Other codexes regularly bring their special characters to games (IE, my 225 point Ghazghkull Thraka shows up in anything 1500+). The problem is that the Nightbringer isn't really good enough to put into any game at all (barring apocalypse). If you insist on using a C'Tan, you have a better choice, but if you expand the playing field to people outside your brother, you're going to discover that people will ignore your C'tan and go after your warriors to phase you out.

I played against a triple monolith+C'tan 1850 list this past weekend. Adding in the lord, he had 40 necrons total. I spent a few turns getting around his solid wall of monoliths, then assaulted the warriors and phased him out. The price of taking a C'tan or multiple monoliths is that your army loses durability on the field.

Marshal_Gus wrote:That's when he should use Etheric Tempest or his large pie plate of Str 4 goodness to thin out the orks. I love facing Orks...if I'm able to take out the battlewagons carrying something scary, that is...those things hurt.

For some reason the two times I faced the Nightbringer the other player didn't use the Etheric Tempest. Likely forgot about it. Looking at his actual rules instead of experience, boyz mobs can't even assault him if the Nightbringer doesn't want them to. Looks like it's a job for lootas and nobs (the second time I faced him I took him out with biker Nobs. 'Urty Syringe, 2 PKs, 3 big choppas, and some regular choppas were up to the task.)

I still say bring him because he's well balanced by his points cost. Your opponent will get better by learning to deal with it.

It kinda seems that based off of his abilities and speed (or lack thereof), his best use is to be employed as a babysitter to keep CC squads away from a core group of warriors. Lightning arc as a last ditch effort to pop transports to leave thier contents stranded, etheric tempest to deny a charge. But really the lack of reliability in these options and the points cost make it a pretty poor choice for this role however.

2 units of rapid firing FW with Marker Light suppot = dead NB.

You know whats really fun. Is when you are playing necrons, and your aspiring sorcerer makes 4 chaos spawn in 1 game. Its even more fun when one of them was your lord with resorb. And its REALLY fun when another one of them was a Nightbringer.

While i havent read this entire thread im sure it has been said before. The Nightbringer is in fact a deadly model and yes it can be killed. Which really only makes sense, why put a model that cannot be killed in a game?

Can a Nightbringer win you a game? Yes, if you know how to play him, and support him properly.

IMHO if you want a fast necron HQ take the lord with destoryer body, he is deadly against tanks if you give him a warscythe.

Ok he is as tough as the C`tan but give him phase shift and some scarab swarm friend's and it does well for me

Since your brother is playing space Marines anyway, he should just use the #1 Nightbringer killers in the codes, sternguard. Special ammunition that wounds on a 2+.

your hitting on 3s, wounding on 2s, all he has to protect him is is 4+ save. With 20 shots coming from a full squad, the odds are on your side.