Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I am starting an IG Cadian army. Recently bought the battleforce, and I am liking the way the Sentinels look. I have read over many IG lists in the army list thread, and I have noticed that not many people use Sentinels in their armies. I would like to include possibly 3 Armored Sentinels in my army. I am not too sure which weapons to equip them each. Is it better for a variety of weapons or more effective if they carry the same. Anyone here on Dakka want to help a new IG player out? What are your guys' thoughts on them? Best way to incorporate them into army? Pros/Cons? Etc.

Well you don't have to listen or trust me but My Opinion is to have autocannons with them.There are 3 reasons for that:
First they are cheap
Second they have multiple uses -----shoot down infantry,knock over MCs,blow up small vehicles and hopefully destroy some tanks
Third,they are the original weapons for the Cadians if you would check the old Codex,and isn't that why you mentioned you are a Cadian player?
Oh and for the sentinels,my suggestion is to have them with or behind or within an infantry platoon,they provide covering fire,and the infantry grants him cover saves
IGs work in a great harmony

Tony the guardsman wrote:Third,they are the original weapons for the Cadians if you would check the old Codex,and isn't that why you mentioned you are a Cadian player?

Original weapons? Not really - the old metal chicken-walkers of 2nd edition carried assault cannons, which was glorious. Then the Space Marines stole them all, while the Eldar were making off with our jetbikes. :(

Janthkin wrote:

Tony the guardsman wrote:Third,they are the original weapons for the Cadians if you would check the old Codex,and isn't that why you mentioned you are a Cadian player?

Original weapons? Not really - the old metal chicken-walkers of 2nd edition carried assault cannons, which was glorious. Then the Space Marines stole them all, while the Eldar were making off with our jetbikes. :(

If i remeber rightly the Iron Chicken was armed with a multi-laser as standerd at lest in the 2nd edition it was, with Las-cannon upgrade.
Ah the jet bikes good times

NVM,now I feel too young

My preference is to go cheap with scouting sentinels and heavy flamer and assaulting units that cannot kill it in assault. If sentinels could only get two weapons the would be golden!

tastytaste wrote:My preference is to go cheap with scouting sentinels and heavy flamer and assaulting units that cannot kill it in assault. If sentinels could only get two weapons the would be golden!

Mind you, I'm not necessarily saying it's *good* but a sentinel can have a HKM and its default weapon for a single-turn punch. I haven't ever tried it, but I could see some value in having a unit with autocannons and HKM for laying down a good amount of shooting on the turn they come on the board from outflanking, but I doubt it's cost-efficient enough to use.

Here's an article that I wrote about sentinels back in 4th ed, old codex:

http://www.ailarian.com/folera/articles/tacticas/on-sentinels.html

5th ed/new codex did change things up a little, though. For example, spending 55 points for a single lascannon is no longer worth it.

I haven't used the new sentinels, but my impression is twofold:

1.) never get armored sentinels. Two AV12 sentinels with direct-fire, small blast plasma cannon costs more than a single, indirect fire large blast plasma cannon that ignores cover (colossus). The extra armor just makes them too expensive to make it worth carrying around infantry heavy weapons, when you could be carrying vehicular super-heavy weapons instead.

2.) they're still just as good against light infantry, except now they outflank! As such, if I were to put sentinels back in, I would run them with heavy flamers and outflank them. The heavy flamer damage + the ability to tie up light infantry makes them the equal of other anti-light infantry options (unlike anti-heavy infantry options or anti-tank which are clearly done better elsewhere).

A pair of autocannons scout sentinels outflanking is a great way to disrupt rear support elements (artillery, lootas...etc).

Ribon Fox wrote:

Janthkin wrote:

Tony the guardsman wrote:Third,they are the original weapons for the Cadians if you would check the old Codex,and isn't that why you mentioned you are a Cadian player?

Original weapons? Not really - the old metal chicken-walkers of 2nd edition carried assault cannons, which was glorious. Then the Space Marines stole them all, while the Eldar were making off with our jetbikes. :(

If i remeber rightly the Iron Chicken was armed with a multi-laser as standerd at lest in the 2nd edition it was, with Las-cannon upgrade.
Ah the jet bikes good times

Nope, you're not remembering rightly; it really was an assault cannon. The multilaser & lascannon variants came in with third.

I find with Sentinels there are two key criteria that needs to be met in order to get the most out of them; 1) Keep them cheap and 2) make sure they have the potential to cause the most amount of nuisance possible, forcing your opponent to either divert forces to destroy them, or ignore them and be contantly stung by the accumulating damage they cause.

In keeping with these two points I would recommend scout over armoured Sentinels. This is primarily to take advantage of the outflank rule, which is excellent if you want to sit in cover, in your opponents half and shoot away. If you want to adopt this tactic, I'd equip them with either multi-lasers or autocannons. Cheap and effective, with the added bonus that your S6/7 weapons will 90% of the time be targetting rear armour! Not something to be sniffed at.

The other option is to use them as a tarpit; give them heavy flamers and then charge the unit that they burn on the turn they arrive. If you're clever with your positioning, you can tie up a 30-strong Ork mob with the PK Nob not getting within 2" and thus not contributing his S10 to the fight. I've seen someone keep a mob like this embroiled for 4 turns(!), completely taking it out of the game.

I would also recommend using units of two. One on its own won't make much impact, and with three you may find it difficult to take advantage of cover. Two gives you the advantages of both.

I think the only reason people don't use Sentinels more often is that they duke it out with some real heavyweights in the Fast Attack slot, which is a real shame as they are characterful and a lot of fun to use!

L. Wrex

All these suggestions made a big influence on my change of heart. Can't wait to test out the Scout Sentinels. Thanks guy!

Scout Sentinels: There are 4 weapons that fit well on the scout sentinel; Multilaser, Heavy Flamer, Autocannon, and Missile launcher. The Move through cover and scouts rules are very nice.

Multi laser is nice because it is free and has good range, decent str and 3 shots, it is not as good because it only has AP6.
Heavy Flamer is nice as it mitigates BS3 has decent Str and AP4 while ignoring cover, its main drawback is range.
Autocannon and Missile Launcher are both very good all-rounders, the AC is Cheaper but the ML fulfills its roles more effectively for not many more points.

Armored Sentinel: AC and missile launcher are the same as for scout sentinels but on a more robust chasis.
Lascannons are good in squadrons of 3 but that weakens the overall squadron and limits them to Tank/MC-hunting.
Plasma Cannons; this is my favorite choice for an armored Sentinel. It allows for anti troop(including TEQs and MEQs), and anti Light vehicle, you do not have to worry about gets hot, and gives you a very obile Plasma platform.

Scout Sentinels are nice. Run them in pairs to outflank with either multilasers or autocannons - I personally prefer multilasers. The ML are better against troops and AV10 (which you should be able to hit), and AC are better against AV11.

Armored sentinels aren't really worth it - except in small games, maybe 750 points. A lot of Marine players will cut costs by not including powerfists, so you can tie up a tactical squad for the entire game with your front AV12.

Janthkin wrote: the old metal chicken-walkers of 2nd edition carried assault cannons, which was glorious. Then the Space Marines stole them all, while the Eldar were making off with our jetbikes. :(

I found one of those in my bit box recently. Turned the lower two parts of it's legs into a really nice gun servitor. It was sort of a retro rush seeing that model again and compare it in size and posture to todays sentinels :-)

I'm surprised no one has said it so far, but....

the problem isn't that sentinels are bad, its that Vendetta and Valkyries are just that much better and compete for the same FA slots...

I used to run one or two packs of sentinels prior to the 5th edition book, and did so in the begining while the Skimmers were being put together. I used Armored Sentinels and enjoyed them. I've been playing against a lot of Scout Sentinels lately as well here are my thoughts...

First, I stay away from the single shot weapons anymore. With Orders and Vendettas and so many Leman Russes and Artillery, you can get significantly more reliable shots of that type (missle or lascannon) elsewhere in your army. So that leave HF, MultiL and AC. The plasma cannon is its own animal which I'll talk about at the end.

Scout sentinel outflanking are nice, and are perfect with autocannons. Range and flank shots really play to their strength and if the enemy leaves a weak infantry unit near an edge, you can just assault it and tie it up. Multilasers are pretty good as well, against armies with rear and side AV 10, they will do well and eat up MEQ infantry better than the AC. If you have a way to get outflanks to more reliably come in where you need them (i.e. Astropath) then the HF can be a great selection. Cheap and very dangerous...

Armor sentinels play very differently, obviously. I would suggest them in mechanized lists. They just add to the sea of AV 12 which can overwhelm an opponent. Add in that they grant cover to vehicles by standing in front of them, they are more valuable. The HF is a waste here, because you'll rarely fire it... I would go with the AC or MultiL, leaning towards AC because in a Mech list you'll have all those MultiL on your Chimeras.

Finally, the plasma cannon. I originally wrote this off as way too expensive. Then, I've seen how two things work in 5th edition. First, AV 12 in cover (which they can do really easily most of the time) is dead hard. You don't kill AV 12 with AC and HB, or at least you don't kill them like you can with AV 10 open topped Sentinels of 4th edition. Next, I've seen the Executioner go to work (a lot) and its amazing. Well, you are getting the same effect out of a unit of 3 of these for slightly less points in a Fast slot opposed to a HS slot. So dependent on your list and what it looks like, I would say give these a try if you are interested, you'll be surprised.

Keep them cheap..vanilla scout sentinels with multilasers is how I use them...since MEQ's predominate the multilaser gives me the additional shot, and against side/rear armor the additional shot counterbalances the lower strength...

the problem isn't that sentinels are bad, its that Vendetta and Valkyries are just that much better and compete for the same FA slots...

QFT, I used to run a pair of lascannon sentinels in almost every pre-5th ed build. Now the vendetta is ust so much better that I don't see a point...The only possible use I can think of is to get an armoured sentinel with no upgrades and use it to tarpit enemy squads in combat, since they will be swinging at its front AV12

It seems like smoke is a good investment, for turns when you run...

I have a squad of 3 Armored sentinels with Plasma Cannons and yes they are expensive. The also always seem to be one of the units that always have an impact on the game. I have yet to play a game where they did not earn their place in the list. I'm not sure the other weapons would be worth the investment on them (maybe autocannons.)
The extra armor on the front helps to keep them on the board in many cases and they make a pretty good tar pit against some assault units. I had mine hold up a berserker squad that made it to my lines for 3 turns. Hope this has helped a little bit.

Cheers
~Volkan

Sentinels are weird. They are borderline not worth it, and yet at the same time borderline awesome (Its kind of hard to explain).

On one side, they have an underwhelming dammage output considered their point cost. A razorback, for example, would bring more dakka and have a better stat line for the cost.

On the other side, they have the capacity to bring their weapons were its the most effective and against the unit that are vulnerable to it. Those guys move great!

So, if they are ''meh'' or ''awesome'' depend a lot if you have the right weapon on it for the right adversary, and bring it to the right place. Keep 'em cheap, dont glue the weapon, dont use them as static guns (buy something else if you need that). And yeah, they can be great support at everything.

Quick recap on what to use against what:

(You play against Tyranids): Heavy Flamer Sentinel (40pts) VS Anything small will save the day (VERY worthwhile) (Also good against guards or Orks)

Tactic: Just a squad of one for thoses if you can. Either sneak em up somewere foward (out of line of sight if you can, and out of MC charge!) or outflank them if your opponent may run gaunts or ripper swarms (or even Genestealers) along the table edges. Whenever a squad of gaunts or swarm point its head under 12'', run, flame, and charge!. Not only does the mobile heavy flamer kill a lot, it lock up the swarm and will eventually destroy it if they dont get help. Even if they do get help, its the most amazing speedbump ever.

You can do the same to a blob of imperial guards (but not against me, please ) You can also do that to a horde of orks, if the squad dosnt have a power fist.

Against stuff with 10 AV on the back: Regular, plain old Multilaser (35pts) that outflank.

Against armor rating 10 (Vehicules back, but also land speeders), the multilaser is SUPERIOR to an autocannon. (in average, you`ll have 50% chance to Penetrate and 25% to glance in a shooting phase, compared to 50% chance to penetrate and 17% chance to glance with an autocannon). Make sure you can pop them behind ennemy line safely and it just stand there, shooting at vehicules back for the game.

If your opponent is outflanking stuff against YOU, and is acting first, you can also outflank a flamer sentinel (40pts). His units come out and do their stuff, but are stuck near the edge. Your sentinel come out, flame and charge. Worst great.

If your not too sure, the 35 pts multilaser are good against everything. Suff in cover get a 4+ save anyway. So the multilaser kill them just as good as anything else.

Edit: Much of the sentinel ''worth'' is being a walker that can move, shoot, and charge. Doubling its point cost to double the weapon dammage output is not worth it. If you need more serious weapons, like lasercannons, missile launchers, and plasma cannons, pay the bulk price and use a Vendetta instead. Its both stronger and cheaper.

The armored Sentinel is cool and fluffy. Its not really a steal. But if you like the style, you can always use it to lock down troops that cannot equip power fists. Like necrons. Its not terribly fluffy, but a large squad of warriors woudnt be able to do gak to an armored sentinel in melle. Just get there in one piece.

I have a squad of 3 Armored sentinels with Plasma Cannons and yes they are expensive. The also always seem to be one of the units that always have an impact on the game. I have yet to play a game where they did not earn their place in the list. I'm not sure the other weapons would be worth the investment on them (maybe autocannons.)
The extra armor on the front helps to keep them on the board in many cases and they make a pretty good tar pit against some assault units. I had mine hold up a berserker squad that made it to my lines for 3 turns. Hope this has helped a little bit.

Cheers
~Volkan

Have you used an executioner for the same price?

Problem with sentinels is the competition in the FA slot. I'm loath to trade any of my Vendettas or hellhounds variants for sentinels. I really wish you could still take them as part of the HQ.

However, if you really want to take them, I will echo autocannons on scout sentinels. They worked great in 4th, now they are cheaper, can out flank, and have more transports to target.

I really like my AC scout sentinels. I run two, sometimes in one unit or seperately depending on whether I am bringing both the Valk and Daemon Canine or just one. Historically they have popped on the board and wrecked some transports in awkward locations, popped a few wounds on demon princes trying to be sneaky, contested objectives, and chased infantry without PFs off the board. Not too bad for the price, though if I ran more vendettas and the like they would go.

Plus you get to make little AT-AT PEW PEW sounds when they shoot.

why all this love for the AC? Multilasers are just as good against AV10, and they're better against infantry. The only thing the AC can do is vainly patter against AV12 instead of just peel the paint. Plus, the Multilaser is even cheaper to boot (enough to give a squad a mortar or upgrade a GL to a meltagun).

And if taking plasma cannons outside of HS is important (which I don't really know why), then a techpriest with 2 plasma cannon servitors is cheaper than 2 plasma cannon sentinels and take up NO FA slots (and you'd get to fix those other precious HS models along with it).

Ailaros wrote:why all this love for the AC?

because we live in the world of tabletop experience, where you plainly live in the world of theoryhammer...

AC offer one other major bonus, 48" range. Little AV 10 walkers get hosed down quickly by the medium strength, high volume of fire guns of the 41st century, like say, multilasers, assault cannons, heavy bolters, scatter lasers and other such weapons. Most of which are out ranged by the autocannon.

do you know how easy it is to kill a techpriest with servitors? If you pointed two plasma cannons at me in that squad (which also can't move) I would look at it harshly with a heavy bolter and make it go away. Or at least the servitors. AV 12 in cover has a lot more staying power, especially when there's three of them.

Even in Theoryhammer ACs are good weapons. I'm not sure how they do in head-in-the-sand-crazy-world.

That said, I have very little experience with Sents as I can't bring myself to drop Vendettas solely for their inclusion. If I did run them, I'd take Scout Sentinels with AC and HK and stand them behind the Chimera wall, unless I saw clear and obvious benefit from out-flanking like gaining side/rear armor on another mech list.

It would have to be a *very* clear and obvious benefit, however, as behind Chims they're a 40 point walker with a cover save, which equates to a giant PITA unit that you can't really afford to sit there and plink away, but the weight of fire to kill it would be better spent pointing somewhere else.

Behind your transports they also have some merit as an assault tarpit, as a previous poster mentioned.

kenneydee wrote:I am starting an IG Cadian army. Recently bought the battleforce, and I am liking the way the Sentinels look. I have read over many IG lists in the army list thread, and I have noticed that not many people use Sentinels in their armies. I would like to include possibly 3 Armored Sentinels in my army. I am not too sure which weapons to equip them each. Is it better for a variety of weapons or more effective if they carry the same. Anyone here on Dakka want to help a new IG player out? What are your guys' thoughts on them? Best way to incorporate them into army? Pros/Cons? Etc.

Armoured sentiles are EXTREMABYSMATERRIBAD!!!!!!!!1!111!!!!!!!1elventyone!1!!!!!!!

use scout sentinels w/ lascannons and use the infilktrate move to outflank on the side of a table edge and fire into rear armor of transports and the like

Ailaros wrote:why all this love for the AC? Multilasers are just as good against AV10, and they're better against infantry. The only thing the AC can do is vainly patter against AV12 instead of just peel the paint. Plus, the Multilaser is even cheaper to boot (enough to give a squad a mortar or upgrade a GL to a meltagun).

Every time this comes up you skip straight over AV11.

AV11 doesn't fit the paradigm.