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How do you play scout move biker cover saves? A recent article brought up the question people posted what was the RaW and then debated as to whether the RaW was a sensible way to play the game or not. So please erad the 4 different ways I think you can play the rules and let me know which one you actually play:

Option A: The rules clearly state I get a cover save in my opponent's next shooting phase. Therefore if I turboboost as my scout move in my opponents next shooting phase I can claim the cover. I can do this even if I go first and do not turboboost in my movment phase as I still have the cover save gained from the scout move. The rules are very clear and therefore I do not see a reason to create a house rule.

Option B: Whilst the rules say you gain a cover save in your opponents next shooting phase I beleive the intention is for this to only last 1 player turn so if I can go first I do not gain the cover save in my opponents shooting phase unless I again turboboost in my movement phase. Whilst the rules as written are clear I beleive the intention for the opposite to be true is clear enough to play it that way. However I can claim the save in the first turn if my opponhent goes first but I beleive fast Skimmers cannot as their cover save relies on the previous movement phase and the scout move does not happen during a movement phase.

Option C: Whilst the rules say you gain a cover save in your opponents next shooting phase I beleive the intention is for this is only to apply during the movement phase. Therefore like Scout fast skimmers, bikers should not gain a cover save at all for scout turboboosting.

Option D: As option B but I beleive for consistency that scouting fast skimmers should also gain the cover save in your opponents turn if they go first and neither gains it if you go first (unless they again move in the movement phase in a manner that grants them the save).

When playing with the general public, RAW is the only sensible way to play. We all should be playing by the same standardized rules as printed in the rule book. However, if you want to play by house rules with your friends, go for it. Whatever makes it fun for you.

Culler you play pure RaW all the time?

So do you play by these rules:

Bjorn's invulnerable save is useless.

Monolith's gain a shot for every weapon destroyed result suffered.

Prince Yriel's spear does nothing.

Spore mines are not removed when they explode.

The Swarmlord's Paroxysm last forever.

I can place a dice on the table with the "6" on the side and roll it up so the 6 is on top as a legal dice roll?

Do you really play by all those rules when the playing general public?

From the way Option A is worded, it seems you are saying scout bikers receive a cover save from regular moves, as well as turbo boosting. IMO If you turbo boost, you get your 3+ cover save the next turn(just as in the rule book) because of the difficulty of shooting at such a fast moving unit.

IggyEssEmManlyMan wrote:From the way Option A is worded, it seems you are saying scout bikers receive a cover save from regular moves, as well as turbo boosting. IMO If you turbo boost, you get your 3+ cover save the next turn(just as in the rule book) because of the difficulty of shooting at such a fast moving unit.

No in his option A he states that he turbo boosted for his scout move (and therefor gets the save) and doesn't even have to move during his turn(but can). Which is RAW.

I read the rules and it say's you gain a cover save in the following enemy shooting phase; after you've turbo boosted.

So if you scout on your first turn you won't get a cover save because the following turn is yours. You would only get a cover save if is you turbo boosted again; so turbo boost in your scout move and then turbo boost again. Because if you just move 12" in your actual movement phase you haven't turbo boosted have you? So no cover save.

The rule means you get a cover save in the following turn, which is the enemies shooting phase.

mercer wrote:I read the rules and it say's you gain a cover save in the following enemy shooting phase; after you've turbo boosted.

So if you scout on your first turn you won't get a cover save because the following turn is yours. You would only get a cover save if is you turbo boosted again; so turbo boost in your scout move and then turbo boost again. Because if you just move 12" in your actual movement phase you haven't turbo boosted have you? So no cover save.

The rule means you get a cover save in the following turn, which is the enemies shooting phase.

Which is what people think the rules mean. I.E. It is their RIA. But by RAW if you turbo boost in your scout move. You get the cover save in the following enemy shooting phase. Does the enemy shoot during yor turn 1? No. So you haven't gotten the save yet so the rule is still on. Does the enemy get a shooting phase during their turn 1? Yes. So now you get the cover save, because the rule states you get the cover save in your enemys shooting phase. There is no qualifier of time. Just when the rule grants the cover save and the rule then ceases to provide the bonus after that, if you turbo boost again to enact the rule it then waits until another enemy shooting phase to grant the bonus cover save to your unit again.

Thanks for answering for me Stirmen. So yes if you vote A which is what was says you don't have to turboboost in your turn 1 to get a cover save if you turboboosted in the scout move even if you go first.

So scout moves I turboboost

Go go first my turn 1 I don't move I'm stationary.

My opponents turn 1 I still get my 3+ cover save for turboboosting even though I'm now stationary.

But you haven't done a scout move again in your movement phase have you? Say if you scout 24" and then move 12" your previous turn isn't a turbo boost so your model isn't going "fast" enough to dodge the bullets.

You only get the save in the following enemy shooting phase, after you've turbo boosted.

As I said above if you scout turbo boost and then move normally you haven't turbo boosted to get a cover save, as it's the enemy shooting phase following the turbo boost move - the enemies shooting turn isn't following your turbo boost move, it's interupted by your own turn.

Donig that would be like turbo boosting then the enemy just doing assault moves and then next turn the enemy does shoot and saying I get a cover because I turbo boosted two turns ago! lol.

You only get the save in the following enemy shooting phase, after you've turbo boosted.

I'm with you on how you'd play it. But what is the first enemy shooting phase after you turboboost in your scout movement phase? Is your shooting phase the next enemy shooting phase? It is not so scoutturboboost by the rulas as written = cover save on enemy shooting phase 1 whether he goes first or 2nd is irrelevant by RaW.

But also for me totally non-sensical hence why I play D.

But it appears a lot of people play by RaW on here.

It's the most objective of the subjective ways of playing

It's the most objective of the subjective ways of playing

I'm also sure a lot of people on here just side with RaW to sound good and in reality play very differently. I doubt anyone plays using any of the rules I've posted above that are all RaW (my first response)...

Yet if asked they would claim they play by strict RaW.

I prefer not to use any of the said above and let my opponent play how ever they want within reason.

Then it just makes beating them all the better .

Tourney, I present the RAW to the judge and let them decide if a simple 4+ is not something my opponent will agree to...

FlingitNow wrote:

You only get the save in the following enemy shooting phase, after you've turbo boosted.

I'm with you on how you'd play it. But what is the first enemy shooting phase after you turboboost in your scout movement phase? Is your shooting phase the next enemy shooting phase? It is not so scoutturboboost by the rulas as written = cover save on enemy shooting phase 1 whether he goes first or 2nd is irrelevant by RaW.

But also for me totally non-sensical hence why I play D.

But it appears a lot of people play by RaW on here.

You get a cover save only when the enemy shooting phase follows, that's why it says the following enemy turn. If you use a scout turbo boost move and then in your actual first turn move 12" you won't get a cover save because the enemies shootnig turn did not follow the scout move. You would need to scout twice in order to get that save, or before the enemies turn.

wow, very well worded poll, unlike alot of the biased ones here... no one voting will feel dirty about their choice in the poll since it's not worded in the typical "A: i follow the rules B: i eat children and don't play by the rules" way.

Mercer whilst I again agree with you on how it should work and what the rules are what RaW is is unfortunately not the case. It doesn't mention anyone's tyurn it simply states:

BRB wrote: In the following enemy Shooting phase, the bike benefits from a cover save...

So if I go first and I turboboost as my scout move. What is the "following enemy Shooting phase"? Is my shooting phase the following enemy shooting phase? Obviously not so that benefit comes about in the enemies turn even if they go 2nd. This is the RaW. For me the intention is clearly not for this to be the case.


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Oh and warboss cheers

That's my point buddie. The enemy shooting phase isn't FOLLOWING the scout move, your own move is FOLLOWING the scout move.

The rule just presumes the enemy shooting turn is next. Probably didn't think of pre-scout turbo boosts, which common sense aren't exactly counted as a turn anyway, really.

That's where I come from anyway.

btw - have you thought about posting it on the blog and see what the other masses say?

Following literally just means after, the enemy shooting is after the scout moves therefore it follows the scout moves (though not directly, but no enemy shooting phase directly follows a movement phase as you have your own shooting and assault phases in between).

Hey I play it your way (well option D for me). This is just one of those cases where RaW is stupid.

mercer wrote:That's my point buddie. The enemy shooting phase isn't FOLLOWING the scout move, your own move is FOLLOWING the scout move.

The rule just presumes the enemy shooting turn is next. Probably didn't think of pre-scout turbo boosts, which common sense aren't exactly counted as a turn anyway, really.

That's where I come from anyway.

btw - have you thought about posting it on the blog and see what the other masses say?

Except it IS following your scout move, as it happens after it.

What you mean to say is that it does not DIRECTLY follow; that is, there is an intervening phase. That's true, but irrelevant, because the rule does not say it must follow directly, only that it must follow. . . which it does.

OK, so first off, your poll asks "How does this work?" but your explanation asks "How do you play?" Those can actually be two different things. I know that I would answer differently depending on what the question is, so I have a hard time responding honestly to your poll. Which question are you asking?

And if we are looking at sensible, let's look at it this way: Why does turboboosting grant a cover save? According to the rulebook, they receive this cover save because of the difficulty of hitting such fast moving targets. With a turboboosting scout that also moves at the top of turn 1, it potentially moved 36" before the enemy even had a chance to react! That sounds like a pretty fast moving, hard to hit, target to me.

Sorry that is a miss type in the Poll question it is supposed to be how do you play. I know how the RaW works. Hopefully the options should have made that clear.


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Maybe that has bias the pool results [facepalm]

Option C: Whilst the rules say you gain a cover save in your opponents next shooting phase I beleive the intention is for this is only to apply during the movement phase.

I'm extremely curious how this has several votes. How could 'opponents next shooting phase' translate to 'well the intention is that it applies only during the movement phase' somehow?
That's just... nonsensical in the extreme.

Gorkamorka wrote:Option C: Whilst the rules say you gain a cover save in your opponents next shooting phase I beleive the intention is for this is only to apply during the movement phase.

I'm extremely curious how this has several votes. How could 'opponents next shooting phase' translate to 'well the intention is that it applies only during the movement phase' somehow?
That's just... nonsensical in the extreme.

This entire poll is a nonsensical bias mess in my opinion. The options heavily imply that you are the bad guy for following the rules, when it should be the other way arround.

Gwar! wrote:]This entire poll is a nonsensical bias mess in my opinion.

Which isn't at all biased eh ?

The options heavily imply that you are the bad guy for following the rules, when it should be the other way arround.

Not really the OP is reasonably clear in his intent and other users both and in other ways have commented upon this poll being quite fair.
If you don't like it or really don't agree with any of the options then....don't post in the thread. You've argued your position in this regard ad nauseum have you not ?

To the OP : given you think there are issues with regards to the thread title and poll options would you like this locked ? PM if so.

I just find it unfair that unbias polls by other posters that are locked while these bias ones are allowed to run free, but In any case I have said my peice and will depart amicably.

FlingitNow wrote:Following literally just means after, the enemy shooting is after the scout moves therefore it follows the scout moves (though not directly, but no enemy shooting phase directly follows a movement phase as you have your own shooting and assault phases in between).

Hey I play it your way (well option D for me). This is just one of those cases where RaW is stupid.

from dictionary.com

1.to come after in sequence, order of time, etc.: [i]The speech follows the dinner.
2.to go or come after; move behind in the same direction: Drive ahead, and I'll follow you.

Definition 1 clearly applies.
Well then what would define the sequence? In order for any of the rules to work, I propose that the sequence MUST be player turns. To use "come after" would definitively apply cover to ANY turn occuring after a turbo-boost.

So, given that the standard unit of measurement for the game is the player turn, "following enemy shooting phase" is equivalent to "The shooting phase of an enemy's turn that occurs sequentially after this turn". While there can be some leeway in using "this phase" instead of "this turn", it seems to me that all abilites reset at the beginning of a players turn and using a strict usage of the word "follow" puts the common intrepretation of RAI in line with RAW.


Even when you take it from the shooters point of view you ask the questions as:
Is there line of sight?
Does the target have cover?
Did the target move more than X inches during it's last movement phase?

You don't ask the question
Did the target generate an effect at a previous point in the game that removed it from line of sight?
Did the target or another unit generate an effec at a previous point in the game that created cover?
Has the target ever moved more than X inches at a previous point in the game?

Effects are measured in and reset at turn starts. Play sequence is Turn: Player.


For the poll to be fair and unbiased, it should not have "the rules clearly state". That is a push poll. The poll topic is "How do you play Scout moves", not "What do you think about Scout moves"

The poll should be
A) Scout moves of sufficient distance give a cover save even if their players turn is 1st and they do not again move sufficient distance
B) Scout moves of sufficient distance give a cover save when their opponent goes 1st
C) Scout moves do not give a cover save

FlingitNow wrote:Bjorn's invulnerable save is useless.

A misconception caused by some people getting an earlier print of the Codex, in the normal version most people have it's not a problem.

Monolith's gain a shot for every weapon destroyed result suffered.

A popular one, albeit not really the best example, since it's reliance on a mixture of a word problem and equation it's not nearly that cut and dry, especially since one can say if you add one you have by definition not reduced anything and thus not satisfied the rule itself.

Prince Yriel's spear does nothing.

Maybe I am missing something but how does "It is a Singing Spear that ignores armour saves" equate to doing nothing?

Spore mines are not removed when they explode.

This is the first one where I would agree with you that it's a case of bad RAW

The Swarmlord's Paroxysm last forever.

I would argue that the Tyrant Guard rules which say "A single Hive Tyrant (including the Swarmlord)" is sufficient to tell us that the Swarmlord belongs to the collective group "Hive Tyrants" and thus, Paroxysm cuts out as normal, but I see your point atleast, it's much like the Doom of Malan'tai's no invulnerable save situation, which would have been a better example.

I can place a dice on the table with the "6" on the side and roll it up so the 6 is on top as a legal dice roll?

To roll a dice has a well known interpretation which you would be expected to use, much like when you encounter a word which isn't used as a game term, and simply relies on it's dictionary definition for interpretation, you would not be entitled to claim "this word is not defined as a game term so despite it's common use in the English language I will make up my own meaning for it" neither can you re-interpret the well known act of rolling a dice to be whatever you want it to be.

Do you really play by all those rules when the playing general public?

In conclusion, yes, I do follow the RAW in the majority of times here...


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Gorkamorka wrote:Option C: Whilst the rules say you gain a cover save in your opponents next shooting phase I beleive the intention is for this is only to apply during the movement phase.

I'm extremely curious how this has several votes. How could 'opponents next shooting phase' translate to 'well the intention is that it applies only during the movement phase' somehow?
That's just... nonsensical in the extreme.

The reference to the movement phase is not "the cover save only applies in the movement phase" but "the obtaining of the cover save only applies in the movement phase" it's saying that scouting bikes follow the fast skimmer rules, where the scout phase is not a time when a cover save can be obtained based on how far/fast you move.

Put me in the I don't know if I am right camp. Wait make that I wish I cared. Or perhaps I wish GW cared.

I always thought of the scout move as a part of Deployment and though we use the word move the scout move does not happen during the "Game" which begins after deployment. So the Game begins and all models on the board are deployed and for the purpose of the game are considered static. When I start Monopoly I am on Go and If I land there don't I get $50. But did I land there or was I placed? And when I look at the rules they don't say, "Whatever. It's just a game." So I do not spend anytime discussing the meaning of "placed" or what "is" is.

Now IIRC GW mucked this up in a FAQ (not an errata) that said that turbo-boosting in the Scout "move" gave you a cover save. But GW is happy to let you ignore the FAQ...it is just a game after all. Well I would enjoy the "game" a lot more if the rules were clear. I like playing but I do not like arguing.

And outside of GW and poor writing and FAQs that are not really answered, what is the definition of "following" anyway. Well once you get agreement on exactly how restrictive the definition of following is then you will be able to discuss RAW because the RAW uses the word "following" but not everyone agrees on the definition of following – there isn't just one definition.

The upshot is that the rule and the mechanics of the game start are poorly written. And if GW meant for it to be movement then they should have defined better the term, "Start the game," because the Scout move happens before you start the game and if you are starting the game "turn 1" isn't following anything in game turns. Zero is not a turn.

fullybakedbear wrote:

FlingitNow wrote:Following literally just means after, the enemy shooting is after the scout moves therefore it follows the scout moves (though not directly, but no enemy shooting phase directly follows a movement phase as you have your own shooting and assault phases in between).

Hey I play it your way (well option D for me). This is just one of those cases where RaW is stupid.

from dictionary.com

1.to come after in sequence, order of time, etc.: [i]The speech follows the dinner.
2.to go or come after; move behind in the same direction: Drive ahead, and I'll follow you.

Definition 1 clearly applies.
Well then what would define the sequence? In order for any of the rules to work, I propose that the sequence MUST be player turns. To use "come after" would definitively apply cover to ANY turn occuring after a turbo-boost.

So, given that the standard unit of measurement for the game is the player turn, "following enemy shooting phase" is equivalent to "The shooting phase of an enemy's turn that occurs sequentially after this turn". While there can be some leeway in using "this phase" instead of "this turn", it seems to me that all abilites reset at the beginning of a players turn and using a strict usage of the word "follow" puts the common intrepretation of RAI in line with RAW.


Even when you take it from the shooters point of view you ask the questions as:
Is there line of sight?
Does the target have cover?
Did the target move more than X inches during it's last movement phase?

You don't ask the question
Did the target generate an effect at a previous point in the game that removed it from line of sight?
Did the target or another unit generate an effec at a previous point in the game that created cover?
Has the target ever moved more than X inches at a previous point in the game?

Effects are measured in and reset at turn starts. Play sequence is Turn: Player.


For the poll to be fair and unbiased, it should not have "the rules clearly state". That is a push poll. The poll topic is "How do you play Scout moves", not "What do you think about Scout moves"

The poll should be
A) Scout moves of sufficient distance give a cover save even if their players turn is 1st and they do not again move sufficient distance
B) Scout moves of sufficient distance give a cover save when their opponent goes 1st
C) Scout moves do not give a cover save

Be careful with those dictionary quotes, you don't know what dictionary the guy who wrote the rules was using.

Wasnt this already in a FAQ.


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Well i use adepticons FAQ as the law and it says you can for scout moves. I think the GW FAQ also says the same thing.