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this is ported over from B&C, some content comes out of multiple posts.

I wanted to clear up some facts about space marines that most people get wrong, starting with their lifespan, SM do get old and will eventually die because of it.
for too long have people taken what is said in the Horus Heresy as hard fact about how long they can live, what had SM been around 150 years by then? please dont just quote things from Horus rising saying "they live forever" because its not true, that's within the context of what they believed at the time.

here is my list of proof...
In the 2nd edition Codex Ultramarines, there was a note about Chaplain Cassius. It said something like that Space Marines rarely show signs of aging until over 300 years of age and that Cassius was about 400 years old and considered old but still fully capable of joining battles.

Page 20 of the 1996 Codex:
"Physically the Blood Angels are among the longest lived of all chapters. One of the peculiarities of the flaw is that it has vastly increased the lifespan of those who survive [implantation of the gene-seed and combat], so it is not uncommon for Blood Angels to live for a thousand years."

"A Space Marine is a genetically enhanced warrior, far stronger and tougher than an ordinary human being. Space Marines can live for several hundred years and they possess extraordinary powers."
2nd Edition Codex Ultramarines, page 6.

"These mysterious strangers are the Wolf Priests of the Space Wolves: the Choosers of the Valiant. The youths they pick will be tested to become Space Wolves. If they succeed, the gene-seed of Leman Russ will be implanted in their bodies and they will become Space Marines. As Space Marines they will live for hundreds of years, if they do not die in battle, and they will voyage through the stars to fight in wars on the other side of the galaxy."
2nd Edition Codex Space Wolves, page 6.

"A Space Marine is the most powerful and most dreaded of all the Imperium's warriors. In almost every respect they are not really human at all, but super human - superior in almost every way to an ordinary man.
Space Marines can live for hundreds of years. Their senses are sharper and their muscles stronger than those of a normal man."
3rd Edition Rulebook, page 110.

"Physically, the Blood Angels are among the longest lived of all Space Marines. One of the peculiarities of the Flaw is that it vastly increases the lifespan of those who survive. Thus, it is not uncommon for Blood Angels to live for a thousand years. Indeed, the current Commander of the Chapter, Dante, was born nearly 1,100 years ago. These vastly increased lifespans allow the Blood Angels to perfect their techniques in art as well as in war. They have centuries in which to perfect the disciplines to which they turn their minds, accounting for the fact that the Blood Angels' armor and banners are among the most ornate ever produced by Space Marine artificers."
4th Edition Codex Blood Angels (pdf), page 3.

"Although the Codex describes a number of ranks and responsibilities within the headquarters staff, only a very few of these officers actually accompany the Chapter to war. Many are non-combatants of advanced years whose roles are to find and train recruits or administrate the Chapter"
5th Edition Codex Space Marines, page 16.

The last quote from Codex Space Marines contrasts with the previous quote from the Blood Angels. If every Chapter has non-combatant staff members of advanced age, and Marines were truly immortal, then all the Chapters would have 3,000+ year old artificers or administrators. But only Blood Angels have that increased lifespan over the other Marines. Normally Marines only live for several hundred years, as other sources have explained.
But the quote from the 2nd Edition Codex Space Wolves even explicitly states that it refers to a natural life expectancy of those that survive, and not merely an average life expectancy of Marines in battle.

im trying to find it but there is apparently a piece of fluff dealing a Imperial Fist who died of old age while in a combat area defending from Tyrinids.



if there's anything specific that people generally get wrong about SM fluff please post it here, and only post if you want to be constructive.

The emporers gaurd captain is 10,000 years and still kickin', so I believe that SM's have a lifespan, but it is more than a few hundred years seeing as a wealthy citizen can live that long.

Isint that because they have some rejuvenation technology that's ridiculously expensive and only used on top, super-important people. cant remember where i read that. and why just him, why should any custodians not be that old not like they see action?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Here is some stuff that came up on another board,

"Although the Codex describes a number of ranks and responsibilities within the headquarters staff, only a very few of these officers actually accompany the Chapter to war. Many are non-combatants of advanced years whose roles are to find and train recruits or administrate the Chapter"
5th Edition Codex Space Marines, page 16.

explain the point of retirement due to advanced years if they aren't aging or why its not recorded in fluff about any older than Dante and why Dante is the oldest if there's immortal marines doing nothing but filing and training on their home planets.

Also explain why Logan grimnar looks so old when old dudes dont get turned into space marines and when they do they dont get the full benefits and are said to die of old age in the HH books, i can say that's true because it happens in the dark angels 2nd book i think it was, some old knight of Caliban, couldn't take all the implants due to his advanced years and rode off on a horse to die because he was old.

already had an angry person tell me that Dante being so old has nothing to do with the above quotes from fluff about their geenseed doesn't get that being around 1200-1400 is different form 600ish or whatever.... and please recognize that the HH books do go into SM dieing of old age,

Well how about in the Salamanders book, they find a marine who had fought in the Horus Heresy 10,000 years ago! Of course he was half senile and practically fused into his armor, but he was alive.

That also came up on a b&c discussion, SM can hibernate its one of their implants. considering he didn't move and probly did this extended his life and didn't he die real soon after they found him?

They actually granted him the emperor's mercy and euthanised him . . . w/c IMO was kinda slowed they could have at least asked him hey so what's Vulkan like / where did he hide all the Chapter relics but noooooo . . . =p

But yeah I guess hibernation could explain how he survived for 10,000 years. The book says he basically he got so old, one day he sat down on his throne and never got up.

I think that marines can live little more than an average Eldar which more than a thousand years.

In the HH books, there are several discussions (mostly Loken talking to himself) about how SM 's are basicly immortal. That the only way to die is in battle. The quote "only in death is our duty finaly done" comes up ALOT (especialy Galaxy in Flames). So in theroy, yes. They can live forever. However, even with all the training, dicipline and upgrades, the mind will begin to break down. It becomes pretty appearent when talking to (or reading about) the marines who are thousands of years old. Even the Acients (Dreadnaughts) suffer from it and they basicly sit ina state of stasis when not stomping xenos into the ground.


And it is out of here! Larry with the 3 run homer seals the league championship for the Detroit Tigers! The compacity crowd at Comerica Park is on their feet! What a shot! (epic celebration FTW)

SkeTcHy LaRRy wrote:In the HH books, there are several discussions (mostly Loken talking to himself) about how SM 's are basicly immortal. That the only way to die is in battle. The quote "only in death is our duty finaly done" comes up ALOT (especialy Galaxy in Flames). So in theroy, yes. They can live forever. However, even with all the training, dicipline and upgrades, the mind will begin to break down. It becomes pretty appearent when talking to (or reading about) the marines who are thousands of years old. Even the Acients (Dreadnaughts) suffer from it and they basicly sit ina state of stasis when not stomping xenos into the ground.

i knew the HH argument would come up, nobody remembers to add the part where even loken himself talks about not actually knowing for sure and how its just probable that they will live for a very very long time. like Ive said before, that is all within the context of what they knew at the time of the heresy, only a few hundred years since the thunder marines were around. and the eldar only live 1000 years? isint eldrad 10,000?

So basically we don't know weather they die of old age or not.

So far everything suggest there very long lived there life span extended over that of a normal human they may even live forever provided there not killed in combat or have some kind of accident.

But they do age and seem to be subset able to what that brings so perhaps its more a case of there body will go on and on but there minds start to wander and in the end its better to grant them the emperors mercy.

There's also the question of gene seed mutation the space marines of the 41st millennium are not the same as those from the HH era over time the gene seeds of the chapters have changed.

So really i don't think there's anything to clear up there's no proof that space marines can die of old age and there's no proof that they can't what we do know is that they have very long lifes and normally die in battle

They actually granted him the emperor's mercy and euthanised him . . . w/c IMO was kinda slowed they could have at least asked him hey so what's Vulkan like / where did he hide all the Chapter relics but noooooo . . . =p

But yeah I guess hibernation could explain how he survived for 10,000 years. The book says he basically he got so old, one day he sat down on his throne and never got up.

Yeah that was so retarder it physically hurt!

The reason given was that his armour had fused with the throne he sat on and they were in a hurry so they couldnt take him with them for some healing time at home.
They are space marines with power weapons ffs!
Cut through the fused throne parts and carry of with the bloke or simply list the whole damned thing and proceed to run of with him. I thought marines were supposed to be stronger then grizzly bears but noooo, his armour is fused to the throne we cant do anything about it so better kill a 10 000 year old marine and not give a crap about the stories he could have told them later on.

God what a logical storyline mistake of epic proportions.

Pyriel- wrote:

They actually granted him the emperor's mercy and euthanised him . . . w/c IMO was kinda slowed they could have at least asked him hey so what's Vulkan like / where did he hide all the Chapter relics but noooooo . . . =p

But yeah I guess hibernation could explain how he survived for 10,000 years. The book says he basically he got so old, one day he sat down on his throne and never got up.

Yeah that was so retarder it physically hurt!

The reason given was that his armour had fused with the throne he sat on and they were in a hurry so they couldnt take him with them for some healing time at home.
They are space marines with power weapons ffs!
Cut through the fused throne parts and carry of with the bloke or simply list the whole damned thing and proceed to run of with him. I thought marines were supposed to be stronger then grizzly bears but noooo, his armour is fused to the throne we cant do anything about it so better kill a 10 000 year old marine and not give a crap about the stories he could have told them later on.

God what a logical storyline mistake of epic proportions.

That was a rather painful bit of the story, wasn't it?

I happened to like the Marines Malevolent in there too, and had quite the discussion a while back about them vs. the Salamanders.

Bottom line: a LOT of BL fluff leaves a LOT to be desired.

Still, it is a fun ride as long as you don't sweat the details too much...

Well I love the book and the author is quite good but in all books there are bad things and this one had it in that killing of the old marine, it was not excused with proper logic and that was irritating.

Oh btw, did you know that in the book the librarian "Pyriel" is actually based on myself (Pyriel)?
Its an awesome nerd thing I use to impress other nerds when we nerds get together.
Helped the author (Nick) out with geological stuff on the fictional planets and got my cognomen used on one of the characters in the book

How nerdy and cool isnt that?

Aint that the shizzit! Damn Pyriel- .. that is a hella story right there..

Loken says that marines are immortal. Maybe, he isn't 100% sure himself. He wouldn't know anyway, as the Astartes have only existed for a few hundred years at the time. And then there's Qruze, who's already showing signs of aging, including senility.

Yeahno. It was the in-character musing of someone who didn't know any better. It's the same as the Custodes; there's no evidence they're immortal, but people just seem to assume...

Nor is there evidence against it.

However, there's TONS of evidence FOR them living over a thousand years. Dante, Logan Grimnar, I believe Calgar himself is ancient.

So yeah, the idea they live less than 500 years unless they die SOONER on the battlefield is ridiculous.

Woah now. Too much conjecture, not enough fact.

The oldest living (i.e. non-Dreadnaught, non warp-tainted/time skewed Marine in existance is Dante of the Blood Angels who's 1300 years old.

Now, as for whether the Astartes, if they escape death on the battlefield, being immortal, they themselves do not know.

Indeed, in Graham McNeill's book A Thousand Sons, when asked whether the Astartes are Immortal, the head Librarian has this to say:

'Are we immortal? It is too soon to tell.'

cassius is older then calgar so he isn't super old.

Now i am not sure if Dreadnought pilots are in some sort of stasis chamber, but if they are not then i would say for all intents an purposes they are immortal,

Bjorn is 10,000+ years and has only spent 8,000 as a dreadnought.


Scientists here on earth have found a jellyfish that has no natural lifespan. it produces stemcells to replace degenerating DNA effectivly halting aging.

Marine's geneseed does the same thing i imagine. replicating stemcells to prolong life for an indefinite period of time.

Dreadnought-entombed battle brothers are awakened occasionally for engagements or advice - the rest of the time they're in suspended animation.

I have a question about Black Templar Dreadnoughts.

The Codex states that "they (Black Templars) no longer possess the zygotes required to grow the Sus-an membrane or the Betcher's gland."

Isn't the Sus-an membrane necessary when grafting a marine into a dread? I know this is just fiction and not RL, but I'm still fascinated by the fictional mechanics of "Dreadnoughtification".

i don't belive the Sus-an membrane is required for "dreadnoughtfication" (love that word BTW) it just allows them to survive vacumes (odd considering the BTs are a fleet based chapter)

Rube wrote:Loken says that marines are immortal. Maybe, he isn't 100% sure himself. He wouldn't know anyway, as the Astartes have only existed for a few hundred years at the time. And then there's Qruze, who's already showing signs of aging, including senility.

Yeahno. It was the in-character musing of someone who didn't know any better. It's the same as the Custodes; there's no evidence they're immortal, but people just seem to assume...

Where do you get senility from for Qruze? maybe some form of depression possibly related to the fact that he wasn't seeing combat duty but he shakes that off towards the end Galaxy in Flames beginning of The Flight of the Eisenstein. Also the idea of marines being functionally immortal again comes up in Eisenstein with Nathaniel Garro musing over spending the rest of his life within the Sister of Silences temple/base on the moon.

Also I'm pretty sure there's something mentioned about Custodes being to the emperor what a space marine is to a Primarch take from that what you will.

Custodes are a mystery and will likely remain such.


likely each is a mini primarch made from the Emperors flesh.

Iacton Qruze was referred to as the 'half-heard' because he was a bookish, less aggressive, more thoughtful Astartes. And the term was one of veiled insult. He was not, in any way, shape or form, senile. he was as adept in combat and thought as any other Battle Brother.

TaintedMess wrote:Where do you get senility from for Qruze? maybe some form of depression possibly related to the fact that he wasn't seeing combat duty but he shakes that off towards the end Galaxy in Flames beginning of The Flight of the Eisenstein.

Senility might not be the right word, but his fellow Astartes talk about his mind slipping behind his back. He brings the point up when he reveals he could hear them all along, but admits himself that he isn't what he once was.

TaintedMess wrote:Also the idea of marines being functionally immortal again comes up in Eisenstein with Nathaniel Garro musing over spending the rest of his life within the Sister of Silences temple/base on the moon.

I'm going to spend the rest of my life on Earth. I'm not immortal (yet...).

TaintedMess wrote:Also I'm pretty sure there's something mentioned about Custodes being to the emperor what a space marine is to a Primarch take from that what you will.

The Emperor was immortal because he was psychic. Besides having thousands of souls stuffed into him he was a regular human born to regular parents. I think if Custodes were immortal it'd be explicitly mentioned somewhere, 'cause that's kind of a big deal.

My point was that the only instances of Astarte immortality being mentioned were from Astartes who were too young to know themselves. It is contradicted by all the later Astartes (and Qruze) who became old and wrinkly. The signs of aging after age ~40 are symptoms that you are slowly dying, as your cells cannot perfectly replicate themselves any longer (the process is called senescence if you want to look it up). If Astartes were immortal, they'd never look older than in their thirties.

Havokas wrote:If every Chapter has non-combatant staff members of advanced age, and Marines were truly immortal, then all the Chapters would have 3,000+ year old artificers or administrators.

Artificers are not Astartes, likewise other members of the Chapter's staff are ordinary humans not to mention serfs who perform many important tasks within the Chapter.

Rube wrote:The Emperor was immortal because he was psychic. Besides having thousands of souls stuffed into him he was a regular human born to regular parents. I think if Custodes were immortal it'd be explicitly mentioned somewhere, 'cause that's kind of a big deal.

HAHAHAHA, WHAT?! So Librarians are immortal too cause they're PSYKERS, right? Oh right, that logic makes NO SENSE AT ALL.

Custodes being immortal shouldn't be brought into this for two reasons.

1. A Custodes is NOT a Space Marine. They are far superior, in fact. They compare an Astartes to a Custodes like a Primarch to the Emperor.

2. They are made of the EMPEROR's Geneseed, and therefore they're just damn better.

That aside, there is no evidence but retconned fluff that says a Space marine won't live forever.

The old fluff said Fantasy and 40k were related. Can a second party come in here and explain the fact that this was RETCONNED?

Are there people out there claiming that space marines are immortal? I think certain space marines (ie primarchs, direct descendants of the emperor, etc) can live a very long time, but immortal? Beyond saying that they are not immortal I don't think anyone here can safely say that they know how long a space marine lives on average. Also, I think it is important to note that "hundreds of years" does not mean somewhere between 100-999 years. Someone that is 1200 could be said to have lived "hundreds of years".

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:
HAHAHAHA, WHAT?! So Librarians are immortal too cause they're PSYKERS, right? Oh right, that logic makes NO SENSE AT ALL.

I think if you look at what he was saying and not exactly what he wrote he meant that the emperor was immortal more because of the things done to him than simply being an augmented "space marine". Without the spirits of the "shaman" inside him would he have lived anywhere near as long? I highly doubt it.

I also don't know that laughing at him and saying it makes no sense at all in caps is a great way to shoot someone's argument down either(unless you win debates by shouting the other person down and insulting him).

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:HAHAHAHA, WHAT?! So Librarians are immortal too cause they're PSYKERS, right? Oh right, that logic makes NO SENSE AT ALL.

Yes, potentially. Psychic powers can make you immortal. Whether Librarians use their abilities to this end, or whether they have enough power to try it in the first place, is another question.

Warp power can make you immortal (and fully ressurrect the dead for that matter), evidenced by the ruinous powers and their 10,000 year old followers. Psychic powers are warp powers.

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:1. A Custodes is NOT a Space Marine. They are far superior, in fact. They compare an Astartes to a Custodes like a Primarch to the Emperor.

They aren't vastly superior. They're moderately superior. And if you forgot, it was a Primarch that effectively killed the Emperor (and earlier yet saved him from being killed by an Ork). The difference between them isn't that great.

Custodes may not be Astartes, but the technology that created them is the same.

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:2. They are made of the EMPEROR's Geneseed, and therefore they're just damn better.

That means they'd be worse. The Primarchs were genetically engineered, the Emperor wasn't. The Emperor's power came from his katamari of shaman souls, not his genes. (note - I'm pointing out why this logic is flawed, the Custodes were obviously still better)

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:That aside, there is no evidence but retconned fluff that says a Space marine won't live forever.

The old fluff said Fantasy and 40k were related. Can a second party come in here and explain the fact that this was RETCONNED?

There is no such thing as retconned in 40k;

Marc Gascoigne wrote:Keep in mind Warhammer and Warhammer 40,000 are worlds where half truths, lies, propaganda, politics, legends and myths exist. The absolute truth which is implied when you talk about "canonical background" will never be known because of this. Everything we know about these worlds is from the viewpoints of people in them which are as a result incomplete and even sometimes incorrect. The truth is mutable, debatable and lost as the victors write the history...

Here's our standard line: Yes it's all official, but remember that we're reporting back from a time where stories aren't always true, or at least 100% accurate. if it has the 40K logo on it, it exists in the 40K universe. Or it was a legend that may well have happened. Or a rumour that may or may not have any truth behind it.

Let's put it another way: anything with a 40K logo on it is as official as any Codex... and at least as crammed full of rumours, distorted legends and half-truths.

I think the real problem for me, and I speak for no other, is that the topic as a "big question" doesn't matter. It's all as true as everything else, and all just as false/half-remembered/sort-of-true. The answer you are seeking is "Yes and no" or perhaps "Sometimes". And for me, that's the end of it.

Now, ask us some specifics, eg can Black Templars spit acid and we can answer that one, and many others. But again note that answer may well be "sometimes" or "it varies" or "depends".

But is it all true? Yes and no. Even though some of it is plainly contradictory? Yes and no. Do we deliberately contradict, retell with differences? Yes we do. Is the newer the stuff the truer it is? Yes and no. In some cases is it true that the older stuff is the truest? Yes and no. Maybe and sometimes. Depends and it varies.

It's a decaying universe without GPS and galaxy-wide communication, where precious facts are clung to long after they have been changed out of all recognition. Read A Canticle for Liebowitz by Walter M Miller, about monks toiling to hold onto facts in the aftermath of a nucelar war; that nails it for me.

Sorry, too much splurge here. Not meant to sound stroppy.

To attempt answer the initial question: What is GW's definition of canon? Perhaps we don't have one. Sometimes and maybe. Or perhaps we do and I'm not telling you.

Rube wrote:

TaintedMess wrote:Where do you get senility from for Qruze? maybe some form of depression possibly related to the fact that he wasn't seeing combat duty but he shakes that off towards the end Galaxy in Flames beginning of The Flight of the Eisenstein.

Senility might not be the right word, but his fellow Astartes talk about his mind slipping behind his back. He brings the point up when he reveals he could hear them all along, but admits himself that he isn't what he once was.

Not being what he once was is a far cry from being senile from what he said i took it to mean that where once he was a powerful determined warrior who did not question his orders this change though when he was repeatedly side lined he lost his direction becoming much more introvert he became happy to play the role of the old fool of being the half herd but that again changed when keeler reawakens his warrior spirit for want of a better term he gains a new purpose in protecting them and getting them to of the ship and then to Earth to deliver the warning. It wasn't age that made him the half herd but lack of purpose.

Rube wrote:

TaintedMess wrote:Also the idea of marines being functionally immortal again comes up in Eisenstein with Nathaniel Garro musing over spending the rest of his life within the Sister of Silences temple/base on the moon.

I'm going to spend the rest of my life on Earth. I'm not immortal (yet...).

you prove my point you can be pretty sure your not immortal because your human and we know humans die of old age if something else dosen't get them first. Garro however is not human and clearly at that point in imperial history no space marine had died of old age (interestingly though Imperial fists seem to retire) and he had already lived a very long time at that point there was also obviously a suspicion that space marines were immortal or as near as dam it

Rube wrote:

TaintedMess wrote:Also I'm pretty sure there's something mentioned about Custodes being to the emperor what a space marine is to a Primarch take from that what you will.

The Emperor was immortal because he was psychic. Besides having thousands of souls stuffed into him he was a regular human born to regular parents. I think if Custodes were immortal it'd be explicitly mentioned somewhere, 'cause that's kind of a big deal.

My point was that the only instances of Astarte immortality being mentioned were from Astartes who were too young to know themselves. It is contradicted by all the later Astartes (and Qruze) who became old and wrinkly. The signs of aging after age ~40 are symptoms that you are slowly dying, as your cells cannot perfectly replicate themselves any longer (the process is called senescence if you want to look it up). If Astartes were immortal, they'd never look older than in their thirties.

The Emperor is pretty far from human unless its been hit with a retcon he was the combined presence/essence/whatever of the earth's most powerful shaman who all committed some form of weird ritual suicide and were reincarnated as the Emperor (think I'm re-calling my fluff correctly). there is very little reviled about the Custodes and they hardly feature within the actual setting of the current game so really it dosen't matter if there Immortal or not what we do know is they were created by the emperor using his on genetic material so its a safe bet to say there more than human.

Define to young at what point can you claim to be immortal you say Garro was to young to wonder if he was immortal yet he was one of the original Death Guard from Earth i got the Impression that he was already several hundred years old. As to Qruze looking old keep in mind that even though by the time we encounter him in the book he had been side lined but he had probably seen a lot of fighting and going by the Wiki article on senescence which states

Cellular senescence is the phenomenon by which normal diploid cells lose the ability to divide, normally after about 50 cell divisions in vitro. Some cells become senescent after fewer replications cycles as a result of DNA double strand breaks, toxins etc

Now I'm no biologist but that to me suggest that senescence is not just a natural thing but can be caused by external events how many toxins do you think a marine comes into contact during battle also what about elemental conditions they encounter such as desert worlds all of those are going to have a effect on how aged his skin looks also looking old is more than just wrinkly he was under some form of depression so probably wasn't filled with the same vitality of his fellow battle brothers.

also from the same wiki article

Organismal senescence is the aging of whole organisms. Aging is generally characterized by the declining ability to respond to stress, increasing homeostatic imbalance and increased risk of aging-associated diseases. Because of this, death is the ultimate consequence of aging, though "old age" is not a scientifically recognized cause of death because there is always a specific proximal cause, such as cancer, heart disease, or liver failure.

I cant imagine things like cancer, heart disease or liver failure being all that common with space marines unless there was a external cause or perhaps a defect that was missed in the original screening of the aspirant but i would think that's pretty uncommon.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rube wrote:

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:HAHAHAHA, WHAT?! So Librarians are immortal too cause they're PSYKERS, right? Oh right, that logic makes NO SENSE AT ALL.

Yes, potentially. Psychic powers can make you immortal. Whether Librarians use their abilities to this end, or whether they have enough power to try it in the first place, is another question.

Warp power can make you immortal (and fully ressurrect the dead for that matter), evidenced by the ruinous powers and their 10,000 year old followers. Psychic powers are warp powers.

Not strictly true time dose not flow in the warp as it dose in the normal universe go read soul hunter the night lords in that story have been active for 10,000 years from the imperial point of veiw but from there own point of view its only been 10 years since they fled to the eye after the death of there Primarch

Rube wrote:

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:1. A Custodes is NOT a Space Marine. They are far superior, in fact. They compare an Astartes to a Custodes like a Primarch to the Emperor.

They aren't vastly superior. They're moderately superior. And if you forgot, it was a Primarch that effectively killed the Emperor (and earlier yet saved him from being killed by an Ork). The difference between them isn't that great.

Custodes may not be Astartes, but the technology that created them is the same.

I think your the one that has it backwards there a Primarch basically a walking demi god further enhanced by both a expertly crafted suit of armour and the blessings of all 4 of the chaos gods should have been able to kill anything that he came against but instead was defeated by the emperor who you claim is nothing more that a particularly powerful Psychicer. So even as raised up as Horus was he was only just a match for the Emperor

Rube wrote:

Lorgar's_Blessed wrote:2. They are made of the EMPEROR's Geneseed, and therefore they're just damn better.

That means they'd be worse. The Primarchs were genetically engineered, the Emperor wasn't. The Emperor's power came from his katamari of shaman souls, not his genes. (note - I'm pointing out why this logic is flawed, the Custodes were obviously still better)

How do you know what the Emperor was he was a skilled scientist with a immense understanding of genetics and probably the most powerful Psychic entity on the planet who knows what changes he made to him self.