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My Sunday games at Adepticon...

I got put in the 'Yellow' bracket - with 320 people signed up, they ran two simultaneous 160-person tournaments. I ran a kan ork list on Friday night, and didn't feel like bringing two different displays to the board, so I was running orks. Didn't really want to run the same list twice though, so I made up a battlewagon list, using the other models I painted last week (nobs, battlewagons, buggy dread, and grots).




HQ: Big Mek w/ Forcefield, Cybork Body, and Grot Oiler
HQ: Warboss who wasn't Gazghull, Mega Armour, Attack Squig, and Cybork Body
Troops: 10 grots w/ runtherd
Troops: 19 slugga boyz, Nob w/ bosspole & Powerklaw
Troops: 19 slugga boyz, Nob w/ bosspole & Powerklaw
Troops: 10 Nobs, with a variety of equipment
Troops: Deff Dread w/ 2 extra CCWs
Dedicated Transport: Battlewagon w/ Deff Rolla, Boarding Plank, Red Paint & Two big shootas
Elites: 10 Lootas
Fast Attack: Skorcha Warbuggy
Heavy Support: Battlewagon w/ Deff Rolla, Boarding Plank, Two big shootas
Heavy Support: Battlewagon w/ Deff Rolla, Boarding Plank, Two big shootas
Heavy Support: Battlewagon w/ Killkannon, Reinforced Ram, Two big shootas

I've never played the list before - or even really anything like this in 5th edition. I had a couple of battlewagons in 4th ed, but that seems like forever ago.

Round One

I get paired up against Robert's Desert Wolves. He's also from the Chicago area, and we've played a few times before.



He's got:
HQ: Njal
Troops: 5 Grey hunters + a wolf guard, flamer, combi-flamer, rhino w/ storm bolter
Troops: 5 Grey hunters + a wolf guard, flamer, combi-flamer, razorback w/ TL plasma, lascannon, HK missile
Troops: 5 Grey hunters + a wolf guard, flamer, combi-flamer, razorback w/ TL plasma, lascannon, HK missile
Troops: 5 Grey hunters + a wolf guard, melta, combi-melta, razorback w/ TL plasma, lascannon, HK missile
Troops: 5 Grey hunters + a wolf guard, melta, combi-melta, razorback w/ TL plasma, lascannon, HK missile
Troops: 5 Grey hunters + a wolf guard, melta, combi-melta, razorback w/ TL plasma, lascannon, HK missile
Elite: Wolf Guard (above) + Razorback (TL Plas, lascannon, HK missile)
Elite: Wolf Guard (above) + Razorback (TL Plas, lascannon, HK missile)
Fast: Typhoon w/ HB
Fast: Typhoon w/ HB
Heavy: Predator, Autocannon, HB Sponsons, HK missile
Heavy: Predator, Autocannon, HB Sponsons, HK missile

Holy spam, Batman. Looks like someone reads a certain blog that shall not be mentioned.

Game is kill-points and pitched-battle deployment.

Summing things up, I go first, and roll forwards. He shoots a lot of spam, and kills my two boyz battlewagons.



I run the boyz, and crash the wagon forward, with the warboss hopping out to fight some wolves. Boarding plank lets the nobs kill a razorback too.
He kills the nobz wagon, and charges into the closest exposed boy unit, winning handily.
I get some interesting multi-charges off with my nobz and kill a couple of troop units, the warboss kills another tank, and something else dies. Game kind of devolves into a bunch of nobs running around punching tanks and trying to avoid dying at that point.

I end up winning on kill points, and we draw the secondary (kill all troops+transports) and tertiary (victory point margin of 250).

Take that spam-man.

Round Two

Game two is a rather laid back affair against a space marine army. My opponent hasn't been playing long, and had the right list to win the first round, but not what it's going to take to fight my orks. He's also the first game I've played all weekend without a special character.

HQ: Captain in artificer armour, power weapon
Troop: Tac Squad in Drop Pod (flamer, missile launcher, Sgt w/ power weapon & meltabomb
Troop: Tac in rhino, flamer, plasma cannon, Sgt w/ meltabomb, power weapon
Troop: 5 scouts, sgt w/ meltabomb.
Elite: Ironclad in drop-pod, 2 HK missiles, meltagun, hammer, hurricane bolter
Elite: Ironclad in drop-pod, 2 HK missiles, hvy flamer, hammer, hurricane bolter
Fast: Assault squad, 10 men, flamer, plasma pistol, Sgt w/ lightning claws & meltabomb
Heavy: Pred w/ AC, HBs
Heavy: Pred w/ lascannon, HBs
Heavy: Devs(5), HB, plasma cannon, lascannon, HB razorback, Sgt w/ stormbolter & power fist.

Mission is to have troops entirely inside terrain elements. Secondary is kill HQ, tertiary is 500 VP. Deployment is modified Dawn of War.

He goes first, and I don't deploy anything, waiting to see where the ironclads land. It's really not much of a game, he makes some poor choices (spending two HK missiles on a warbuggy, landing his assault marines within charge range of my dread, and dropping his HQ's pod within charge range of two full battlewagons. But we have a good time, chat some, share a few beers and he's a good sport about the whole thing. I get max points for the round. I decide I really like the boarding plank, as it allows me to pull a battlewagon up alongside a dreadnought and slap some S9 or 10 attacks on it without risk of it killing anyone in the squad, or the battlewagon.


Round Three

I'm playing against someone, and his mech guard. Not surprisingly, this year I got to play both Space Wolves, and Imperial Guard. What are the odds of that...

He's got:
HQ: Command: lascannon, 2 plasma guns, astropath, Chimera (all chimeras in his list are HB/Multilaser)
Elite: 9 Psykers in Chimera
Troops: Two Identical platoons:
Platoon Cmd w/ powerfist, 4 flamers, Chimera
Squad w/ Missile launcher, meltagun, chimera
Squad w/ Missile launcher, meltagun, chimera

Troops: Vets w/ 3 plasma guns and demo charge
Troops: Vets w/ 3 meltaguns and demo charge

Fast: Banewolf
Fast Vendetta
Fast: Vendetta
Hvy: Griffon

Mission is spearhead deployment with three objectives. One player places all three, the other chooses which is the primary (and worth more battle points). Contested objectives are worth points. Secondary is to have a unit in each quarter, which will be hard for me to to and also come to grips with him while still holding objectives. Tertiary is victory points.

He places an objective in two opposite quarters, with another nearer the center of the table, but firmly in a quarter. I make the center one the primary. I think maybe it would have been better to have the lone one be the primary.

I win the roll for first turn and take it, picking the quarter with the primary objective. And here's why I think I screwed this up. My guys want to go towards him. If they have to hang back holding the objectives, they're not smashing guard tanks, and if they're smashing guard tanks, they're not on the objectives. I probably should have put him on the objectives so that I could roll more towards him... but I didn't.

He doesn't steal the initiative. Oddly, he deploys both vendettas, the one with meltaguns in it within range of my lootas.

Turn One
I send my dread, nob wagon and one troop wagon out - they're covered with the forcefield. My lootas shake the vendetta in range. I throw my buggy away - should have just held it way back, but I push it towards him, knowing he'll shoot it, hoping to divide some fire off my cooler stuff.

He predictably does shoot it, and kill it, but that's all he gets that turn. He moves the shaken vendetta in a position where his meltagunners will be able to hit my rear-guard wagon (with the lootas in it).

Edit - Photos removed as they may be incriminating

Turn Two
I continue to push up the middle, and lootas gun down the valk. I kill half the men, including two meltaguns, and the rest huddle in their crater, pinned.

He shoots everything, mostly multilasers at my dread. He gets like 7 glances on the dread (that's 7 '6's to hurt it) but my KFF saves all but one, which shakes it. KFF also saves a couple of battlewagon hits - it had a really good turn.

Turn Three
Yellow wagon rams a chimera. Red wagon also rams a chimera, and the warboss gets out to engage a squad of men. Nobs get out and combi-skorcha another unit. Yellow squad isn't getting out as there is no room, but that's okay. My lootas shake his other vendetta.

Return fire is again mostly ineffectual, he immobilizes the yellow wagon, and finally kills the dread that had left forcefield range.

Turn Four
Nobs get back in the bus, Red wagon smashes into the commander's tank, yellow squad hops out and gets a big combi-charge against three units or so. Warboss hits a unit too.

His turn four, he shoots yellow squad, but three guys live (and the nobs are contesting the objective in his zone anyway). Then the craziest thing I've seen happens. His vendetta with the plasma team in it moves 24" towards the middleish primary objective (that I have a battlewagon parked on). He grav-chute inserts a team out. Initially, he tries to put them on the outside of the vendetta, but I point out that they've got to be on the line that the plane flew. Even so, they then scatter nine inches, in exactly the direction that gets them towards the objective - and also towards his one remaining officer who says run,run,run, and they get a six inch run to contest the primary objective. So, that's 39" of movement for that unit in one turn... and it costs me holding the primary objective. I'm still kind of amazed (and slightly disappointed) at that. I could have got the boyz out of the wagon and surrounded the objective further away, but who plans for a unit to move 39", at the risk of sustaining 3 or 4 chimeras and a griffon raining down fire on them, which might possibly be enough damage for them to break. I thought it was safe as was.

And we ran out of time, so that's that. We drew on the tertiary, I had one objective and we contested two, but I didn't have the units to get into each quarter, so I lost the secondary. (And that's what I should have tried to use the buggy for, but it was the third game on Sunday after a whole weekend of drinking, thinking, and not sleeping.

So.... I thought we'd had an amicable game. No arguments, no complaints during the game. And I find out that my opponent chipmunked my sports scores. I actually asked what I'd done to piss him off, and he said that my list was abusive for a championship game (not like fielding 12 AV12 vehicles), and that we didn't get five turns in (which was true, but was due to the time spent on his shooting phase, not me moving 3 wagons and a dread each turn). Nothing like sour grapes to ruin the end of what I thought was a perfectly reasonable game (especially considering his lucky steal of the objective at the end). Not only that, but after the game, I find out that his 39" moving guys were supposed to take some sort of tests for that crazy grav-chute drop, which was information not volunteered or acted upon, and if only one had died, he'd have been too far from the objective to contest it (he had eight guys, which let him hang one an extra inch off the deep-strike circle).

Final results

I finished 9th overall (would have been higher without the chimpunking or the 39" moving troops), and actually enjoyed all my games (until finding out at the end that my opponent both cheated and chipmunked me). Still, I can't really complain about a top-ten finish in a field of 160

P.S. - Don't bother asking who my final round opponent was. My intent is not to show him up, but to share my experiences (good and bad). If you know who he was and want to defend this sort of behaviour, that's on you.

Thats a pretty sweet army red beard. I play a friend's (starbomber109) orks frequently with my eldar. Its always a blood bath.

i also noticed you are playing next to spam man in the last game, funny how that can work out.

Cheating wise I had a similar thing happen to me two years ago. Guy claims he can shoot through a building he cant, I dont contest it, and it loses me the game big time. Long story short, I could have taken third in battle points :(

Happens to everyone. Least you have another placing to add to your sig

As an IG player, I really find it difficult to shorten my shooting phase. Too many dice, but that's the nature of the army.

However, that's no reason to chipmunk your scores. And not doing dangerous terrain tests for deep striking out of a flat out skimmer was a critical omission...

Great games and report! The yellow tourney is the one where Darkwynn won with his leafblower? And the other tourney (blue) was the one where the space wolf player (goatboy) won?

Yeah, they need dangerous tests. How many points did you lose? :looking at results:

Would have been a six point swing on that objective, and four on the sportsmanship thing, so ten total.

IG generally make up for their extremely long shooting phase with short movement and assault phases.

LOL Redbeard. It sounds like you have just made the best argument supporting "that blog that shall not be named" the authors holy crusade on tournament design.

Thanks for the battle reports and pictures, well presented as always.

I grappled the shoggoth wrote:IG generally make up for their extremely long shooting phase with short movement and assault phases.

hahaha...unless you also play with IS blobs with commissars, then you can also have lengthy assault phases....anyway I like Redbeard's list, simply because if you look at it, it is not cookie cutter and represents an ork army well (which again puzzles me why he was penalized in his sports score, where if it was me I would reward him for playing this list!). I too am not fond of spam lists!!!

Id definitely knock redbeard in sports. If you beat me it means you either cheated or brought a cheesy list

all seriousness aside, the guard guy sounds like he was getting desperate for some kind of placing. Its easy to "forgot" things when thats going on.

Redbeard wrote:Would have been a six point swing on that objective, and four on the sportsmanship thing, so ten total.

O_o
You got screwed out of 3rd. That's... :deep breath: not good.

Haha, the "comp tourneys are a joke" argument goes code red!

Every big comp event this seems to happen to one big competitor.

Update: and a score of 182 would have been 10th place overall (accounting for both tourneys, yellow and blue).

Grats on the score you deserved to get.

Good reports and an excellent army! I especially liked the colour coding. Kudos!

@BeefyG: There was no composition score in the Championships:

Battle (59%): 135 total points. 45 points per round divided into primary (21), secondary (14) and tertiary (7) objectives with +3 battle point modifiers.
Sportsmanship (16%): 36 total points, player scored
Appearance (19%): 45 total points, judge scored
Rules Knowledge (6%): 14 total points, rules quiz
Total Possible Points: 230

The objective thing was a much bigger issue it seems. I think Redbeard is saying he received 8/12 in Sportsmanship (not a 0), when he thought the game was worth a 12.

Ah cool Matthias,

I think having the proper information is important. Still it sucks to be docked in that manner when it is so subjective.

As you've said. The cheating issue is the main problem. I had that happen to me in a WHFB tourney... I killed the paymaster in a DOW army and my opponent conveniently forgot about its effects on his army. I haven't been to a WHFB tourney since.

I don't think this kind of thing would stop Redbeard though, he seems to be an avid tourney go-er.

Matthias wrote:
The objective thing was a much bigger issue it seems. I think Redbeard is saying he received 8/12 in Sportsmanship (not a 0), when he thought the game was worth a 12.

Matthias has it dead on. You play a game for two hours with a guy. There are no arguments, he is jovial and cheerful through the whole game. He never says that he thinks the pace of the game is too slow, and is taking longer turns than you are. At one point, he walks away from the table for a few minutes, and you patiently wait for him to return before you continue your turn. He answers a phone call during the game - a short one, but there you go. And at the end of the game, he dings -you- for only getting four turns in. He's running the optimized cookie-cutter army of the weekend, the same one that a full third of the Team Tournament ran - but dings your choice of list.

And then, as you're walking away from the table, you realize that he didn't even make the tests he had to make... I'm hesitant to call it outright cheating. It was the last game of a 11-game weekend, and it's possible that he just forgot. It's just, it's an awfully convenient thing to have forgotten. One guy dies in the insertion, you lose an inch of movement. Two guys die in the insertion, that's 25% and a leadership test at the end of the phase.

It's not so much the points even. It's like, it just leaves a bad taste in your mouth. Like you just ate a tasty meal, and afterwards, they tell you that Hannibal Lecter was the cook. I thought we'd had a mutually enjoyable game.

Nicely done Redbeard. It was good hanging with ya at Adepticon. I finished 1-1-1. The Primary Objectives of my games literally were decided by morale checks. Close games. If those went in my favor, I'd have placed higher, but that's dice I guess. All in all, I had a great weekend.

How'd you fit 4 battlewagons and 1 dread in your army? I don't see the dread posted on your list but it's in the battle and photos? You have 4 heavy supports?

Regarding your sports scores, I can see how some people may ding you for having 4 BW's with KFF. It's a really strong list and not everyone can handle it. For that same reason, people may penalize dual-lash, land raider spam, nidzilla, rune-priest spam or even mechguards.

The Mekboy lets you take a Deff Dred as a Troops choice. Though he didn't list it in his posted list, it fits.

Redbeard you don't need to tell us the guys name. You showed us his fat, hairy arm and his red shirt. You also showed us his painted army. We know who it is.

jy2 wrote:How'd you fit 4 battlewagons and 1 dread in your army? I don't see the dread posted on your list but it's in the battle and photos? You have 4 heavy supports?

Regarding your sports scores, I can see how some people may ding you for having 4 BW's with KFF. It's a really strong list and not everyone can handle it. For that same reason, people may penalize dual-lash, land raider spam, nidzilla, rune-priest spam or even mechguards.

I've fixed the list now. Yeah, the Big Mek lets me bring the dread too. It seems useful to have a walker in your list these days, what with thunderwolves and bloodcrushers running around.

As for the strong list thing - you know, if my second round opponent had dinged me for that, I'd have been totally cool with it and said, yeah, my list was tougher. But, looking at what I was playing against in the third round, you know... it's a tournament. He's got the mech-guard chimeras + vendetta thing going on.

Maybe things are different around the country. Playing in the Chicago area, in our tournament circuit, there are all sorts of strong lists. People around here just accept that part of going to a tournament is playing with, and against, strong armies. It could have been a lot stronger. I could have run more wagons and/or Ghazzy. But, maybe you're right, and it's my expectations that are off...

DarthDiggler wrote:Redbeard you don't need to tell us the guys name. You showed us his fat, hairy arm and his red shirt. You also showed us his painted army. We know who it is.

If you can figure it out from that, more power to you. It's not my intent to go after him, just sharing my experiences and frustrations (good and bad) from the games played.

The IG seemed extremely common this weekend, and one of the lists knocked me out of the championships first round (I do not fair well against mech IG). Curious as to your thoughts why these armies arent so prevelant in the Chicago (Battle Bunker) tournament series. In fact I can really only remember 2 or 3 mech guard players at any one of the 25-30+ people tournaments there. Congrats on the AWC series win and the high placment in the Yellow championships.

My thought about why there isn't a lot of guard in Chicago ATM:

People don't have the models for it. The 1850 list I played against above had 10 chimera-hull tanks, 2 vendettas, and a bunch of guardsmen. That's a lot of models to pull together. High model-count armies are always less prevalent than lower-count armies.

More models also means more painting...

Those who do have the models haven't been among the stronger players, so we're not seeing it win. Seeing a list win will get people playing it. Seeing a list lose won't win it converts. Aaron did well with Brian's guard in one of the events (Best General, I believe), but that was it.

We'll see more now. Tony, Alan and Aaron were part of 3-foot-2, and so I'd imagine at least one or two of them will run it in the next season's events. I'd guess that their figs weren't ready before Adepticon. Now they're finished and ready to go.

I understand why you don't want to go after your third opponent, but it might help the overall good if people are aware of certain people who are more prone to cheating and willing to give you lower sportsmanship scores when they lose.

Of course, allowing said person to defend his actions as well.

bluedevil27 wrote:I understand why you don't want to go after your third opponent, but it might help the overall good if people are aware of certain people who are more prone to cheating and willing to give you lower sportsmanship scores when they lose.

Of course, allowing said person to defend his actions as well.

It's not cool to go after people like that. Sometimes, that just makes you look like a shmuck unless you've got definitive proof. I mean, it could have really been an honest mistake on the Guard player's part. People make these "mistakes" all the time, even in competitive play and especially when they've been sleeping maybe 3-4hrs a night and probably partying or gaming to the wee hours. Unfortunately, it's up to your own familiarity with the rules to catch these mistakes.

Also you can't really blame people for how they score you. Sure they may be jerks or anal-retentive, but it's not really something you can control. I was once in a tournament and played against a dark angels player. We had a pleasant battle and I even helped him with the rules as he seemed to be a 4th edition player transitioning to 5th edition, thus getting a lot of the rules mixed up. I also told him in advance what my armies abilities were so that there were no surprises when I used them (Ragnar, jaws, murderous hurricane, etc.). At the end, he dinged me on my score because he thought Rune Priests were cheesy and because I had a melta in each of my squad. Go figure.

Hats off to Redbeard for showing these inconsistencies but keeping the the other parties' identity private.

As someone pointed out earlier, Redbeard hasn't exactly left the other party's identity private. We know what army he played and that can be used to identify him.

I've removed the offending photos.

Interesting hobby to be able to go on the web and get torn up within a week after the tourney...how things have changed since I first started playing.

I am the illustrious "fat, hairy, a**hole" that everybody seems more than happy to trash without a second side of the story. Thanks for showing me a new side of the hobby...very interesting. In response to redbeard, I appreciate your honesty and attempt to "protect" my identity...it shows your integrity and I appreciate that.

I guess I will explain my actions and then you folks can have a second round at me:
1) Grav chute insertion: My apologies...we should have checked. I guess I will plead hungover and laziness. I should have checked the codex before executing. All in all, I think both of us thought it was such a long shot to have happen; I think we were both shocked: one happily...one not so. But, if there are any hard feelings there, I hope you are able to accept my apology.
2) On "hacking" your soft scores, I did not consider that a hack. I am one of those old timers that believes in answering those final "subjective" questions should be done so honestly. It is one of the reason I do not ever hand my sheet over to my opponent and instead walk up to the judget to hand over privately. That being said, the two questions I didn't answer yes to were:
would you voluntarily play this army again? - No and I stand firmly by this. I would hope that if somebody was tabled / beat by my umpteen Chimera list and didn't want to play it again, they would not check this box. Pretty simple there and I am comfortable not getting those points.
Was this game played in a timely manner? - This one is more subjective and maybe answered to rashly. I was playing the bottom end of the turn and 15 minutes was called going into the bottom of the 4th turn (i.e. no more turns and game over). At the time, I think I thought that perhaps redbeard was stalling to end the game at turn 4 and ensure his victory. Maybe he wasn't and maybe he was...after 12 games, being hung over, in a nail biter of a game adjusted my vision. I probably still would not have clicked that box due to the fact that section still applies to my "opinion" and I would hope all gamers would still want a place to share their opinion.

Mind you, on Redbeard side, he tried to place the large GW crater down on top of his Dreadnaught that was destroyed and claim that GW has not clarified the size of the crater and that it was ok. When challenged if I could lay a 2 ft by 2 ft crater on a destroyed Chimera, Redbeard decided to rescind and remove the crater. All is all, there was no malice but perhaps we were both a bit tired from a long weekend and making some mistakes. Maybe...just maybe people do make honest mistakes still.

Cheers.

mechmania wrote:
1) Grav chute insertion: My apologies...we should have checked. I guess I will plead hungover and laziness. I should have checked the codex before executing. All in all, I think both of us thought it was such a long shot to have happen; I think we were both shocked: one happily...one not so. But, if there are any hard feelings there, I hope you are able to accept my apology.

Apology accepted. If you say it was an honest mistake, I will believe you.

That being said, the two questions I didn't answer yes to were:
would you voluntarily play this army again?

Except that the question asked, "would you voluntarily play this person again." (Which can be verified if you check the adepticon downloads) and had nothing to do with what army was being used.

As I indicated above, I thought we had a close, tightly contested, but amicable game. To be told that my behaviour was so offensive that you would not voluntarily play against me again hurts. Left to interpret this on my own, I can only conclude one of three things:

1) You were miserable all game, and any enjoyment you appeared to derive from the game was meant to mislead me. - I find this unlikely.
2) You deliberately hacked my soft-scores.
3) You misread the question.

Even if it was that you misread the question, and also that your grav-chute insertion was an honest mistake, I hope you can understand that being on the losing side of both those mistakes can be frustrating, and accounts for eight points at the end of the day.

As I've said from my first post, my intent has never been to slam you in public, just to share my experience at the tournament.