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Everyone knows the guy who may or may not be intentionally cheating. Who makes the same rules mistakes over and over. Who never rolls difficult terrain unless you make him. Who tries making illegal assault moves to get more models into base contact. The guy that you want to pack up your models and say, "This game is not worth this trouble."

And yet....you stuck through the pain, you brushed off the absolute B.S. that he was doing, and went on to curb-stomp him anyway....showing that the good guys win!! Lets hear your stories. I'll start.

-----------------------------
Tonight, I played against a Tyranid player. 2,000 point game that took three hours to get through two turns. It started going downhill when he landed a flying unit on top of a forested hill, rolled a 1 for dangerous terrain and failed, taking a wound. He then declared that we hadn't declared the forested hill to be forested, and therefore wasn't difficult or dangerous and he refused to take the wound.

I let it go.

Deffrollas are a contentious item as part of the hull or not, because both ways break rules; as part of the hull is easiest, so I do that. Turn2, as I'm preparing to multi-burn both a gant squad and a warrior squad with my burna wagon, he throws a hissy fit about following RAW exactly. To the letter. I pointed out that his trygon base wasn't the GW supplied base and therefore he couldn't field it if we were going to play like that. He said, "Well, 99% RAW."

Whatever - I let him have it. Instead of burning both, I just burned up the gants and Ghazghkull assaulted the warriors, instapopping them all. Ha.

Then, I assaulted into his Hive tyrant with a 17 ork boyz squad. THe boyz did one wound, the nob's powerklaw did two more....the Hive Tyrant SHOULD be dead, but he's not. He takes fearless saves (2) and fails one, dying anyway. HA.

Elsewhere, I have Nobs assaulting shrikes and gants. Ensue 20 minute argument as he is doing 8" defender react movements to get into base, moving over my battlewagon, all sorts of shenanigans. I finally say, "Whatever, lets do it." He takes all his attacks, I take all mine - at the end of combat, I lost a single wound and both of his squads are gone. HAHAHAH!

My big boyz unit that killed the Hive Tyrant were sitting in the forested hilltop.....he assaults into them with two big squads of gants (into cover). Ensue another argument about how I react (some of his guys couldn't get their attacks because I reacted into the other unit instead. I killed 7 out of 1 unit, 3 out of the other unit. He then attacks back - he rolls 17 dice for one unit, and 15 for the other, one deals zero wounds, one deals two wounds which I save one......and then...and then....AND THEN....tells me that he forgot to roll all his dice, so he was going to reroll everything. I said, "nononono....not quite. You can take the rest of your attacks, but you don't keep rolling dice over and over until you get a result you like." Ensue more arguments.

At the end of it, he killed 6 more of my boys with 40 more attacks. My powerklaw killed 3 more. And he lost combat. I'd killed his tyrant and warriors, so they had no synapse and both ran. I caught one, and the other ran off the board.

Bottom of turn2 (I went first) He had a tyrannofex 1" from my nobs, a zoanthrope about to get hit by Ghazghkull, a trygon in reserve and a unit of genestealers in reserve out of 2k points.

I'd lost an empty battlewagon (Zoanthrope exploded it), one deffkopta, and a few ork boyz from the battlewagon unit that killed his tyrant and two gant squads.

INstead of starting turn3, I asked him if he'd like to concede because he had 1 troop choice left in reserve (seize ground), and he did.
-----------------------------
I felt heroic.

good job

I've found the guys who play a particularly obnoxious style, using rules exploits, fudging movement, 'forgetting' rules and the like tend to be poorer players. To some extent they just don’t get the difference between clever tactical play and rules exploits, which is part and parcel of why they struggle to make decent tactical decisions in the first place. And they often cheat because they feel they have to to compete, because they lose a lot. They also tend to be younger gamers.

The guys who kick my ass pretty consistently are generally decent blokes who just play a better game than I do.

Good job DoP
Even with all that bs he still lost, he's not just a TFG but a bad one

Good on you Dash!

We had a guy who would *constantly* tell yo uhow you could have played better - and not in a nice way, in a "hur hur" way. WHile getting rules wrong (like WBB after Sweeping Advance. This was in 4th ed when it explicitly stated it doesnt work!)

Even if he lost. Badly. As in so badly I lost 3 bezerkers and a single obliterator, at 2000 points. He lost everything.

Even when you beat him it still gave you no satisfaction!

In my first tourny game I had played TFG and now I all I want to do is play him again so I can stomp face!!!

acastonguay wrote:In my first tourny game I had played TFG and now I all I want to do is play him again so I can stomp face!!!

Did you beat him during your first tourney game?


@Defiler - I don't need self-congratulatory notes; I win just about everything I play in - beating TFG and racking up another victory is meaningless in itself. What matters is that there were about 5 times during this game when I wanted to throw my hands up and scream, "DUDE! F*** this game and F*** you, you're not even worth the effort of a game."

And I didn't. I gutted through and finished the game, despite its incredible un-fun, and despite him cheating, and still beat his face in. Beating face in is nothing special in itself; beating a cheater's face in, especially with style is worth a story.

So who's got 'em!

Heh, is this post being censored? I see posts deleted.

Now I figured I had left China...

This is kinda lame. If you cant stand someone, don't play with him. Forcing yourself to continue with a unenjoyable game and trash talking after that seems to be acting like an immature kid. I mean if you cant stand a person, then just act like an adult and tell him straight in the face and excuse yourself from the game.

I think that's a bit harsh, Davicus. I can see where DoP is coming from - I can see this TFG (after you excused yourself from the game) running around telling people he beat you. That you conceded early in the game because blah blah blah. While this is nothing to get really upset about, it would still irritate me, so I'd try to finish the game coming to a real definite end. Apart from that, if a guy really tries to pull some shenanigans and is insistent on it, I can see why one reacts to that kind of provocation and says to himself "All right, you wanna do this the TFG route? I accept the challenge and choose good tactics and patience as my weapon."

Well, the last part probably sounded a bit flowery, but you know what I mean.

Witzkatz wrote:I think that's a bit harsh, Davicus. I can see where DoP is coming from - I can see this TFG (after you excused yourself from the game) running around telling people he beat you. That you conceded early in the game because blah blah blah. While this is nothing to get really upset about, it would still irritate me, so I'd try to finish the game coming to a real definite end. Apart from that, if a guy really tries to pull some shenanigans and is insistent on it, I can see why one reacts to that kind of provocation and says to himself "All right, you wanna do this the TFG route? I accept the challenge and choose good tactics and patience as my weapon."

Well, the last part probably sounded a bit flowery, but you know what I mean.

This.

I left 'Ard Boyz semi-finals last year at the top of turn2, before I fired a shot because of irreconcilable differences with my opponent. I was tired, and sick, and it simply wasn't worth the effort to continue. I had a clear tactical advantage on the table, starting with an Eldrad-led seer council jetbike squad 2" away from Ghazghkull Thraka who had failed their fortune and their reroll. It went downhill fast in terms of attitude. I tend to feed into things (or did back then anyway)....it was the first game I ever walked away from (and my most miserable game to date).

I've run into bad games here and there since then - I think of my game yesterday as training for 'Ard Boyz. *laughing* Hulksmash has been teaching me good sportsmanship - I now defer to my opponent to tell me how many models are under a template, and give them the benefit of the doubt for things because if I play well, it shouldn't make a difference...and if there's going to be a tough call, I'd rather my opponent be the bad guy. As someone else pointed out here, it seems to be players who aren't so good anyway that suffer these tendencies, although I've seen it from decent players too so I don't want to relax my guard.

As for posts being deleted...not sure. The second post in the thread was inflammatory, but nothing after that was.

TFG in my local FLGS is kinda like how you described that guy, only he just dissapears in the middle of games for like 2 hours, so nowadays no one even plays against him anymore. Heck, we didn't play any 40k for like half a year just to avoid him XD This may seem harsh/stupid but the guy could not shut his trap, nor say ANYTHING relevant or even understandable most of the time.

Last time I played him (my Orks vs his Crons) he thought he could trick me in to believing Crons get WBB rolls for each phase. har har har..... He phased out turn 3. Yea he wasn't the bright kind of TFG. His most common tactic was Landraider spam with BT.....

Witzkatz wrote:I think that's a bit harsh, Davicus. I can see where DoP is coming from - I can see this TFG (after you excused yourself from the game) running around telling people he beat you. That you conceded early in the game because blah blah blah. While this is nothing to get really upset about, it would still irritate me, so I'd try to finish the game coming to a real definite end. Apart from that, if a guy really tries to pull some shenanigans and is insistent on it, I can see why one reacts to that kind of provocation and says to himself "All right, you wanna do this the TFG route? I accept the challenge and choose good tactics and patience as my weapon."

Well, the last part probably sounded a bit flowery, but you know what I mean.

You are right, there is absolutely nothing to get upset (or irritated) about if he goes around telling people stories. Only kids quarrel or behave that way, mature adults shdnt.

It's alright to continue the game like what you said, but do so with an open heart, not with an intention to beat him so that you can trash talk about him later. There is no 2 ways about it - either you are kind enough to continue the game with him and continue to treat him nicely, or be irritated but behave in a mature manner by telling him straight in the face and excusing yourself.
Bitching behind people's back just feels low to me.

Dashofpepper wrote:

Witzkatz wrote:I now defer to my opponent to tell me how many models are under a template, and give them the benefit of the doubt for things because if I play well, it shouldn't make a difference

Yeah I do the same, unless it sounds silly.

Dashofpepper wrote:
As for posts being deleted...not sure. The second post in the thread was inflammatory, but nothing after that was.

Its past now.

Edit: What am I doing that make my quotes look funny?

Davicus wrote:This is kinda lame. If you cant stand someone, don't play with him. Forcing yourself to continue with a unenjoyable game and trash talking after that seems to be acting like an immature kid. I mean if you cant stand a person, then just act like an adult and tell him straight in the face and excuse yourself from the game.

You tell someone you're going to play a game, you owe it to them to finish that game unless you've got a really good reason. Quitting in the middle of the game because the other guy is annoying means you're running the risk of being TFG.

Afterwards you might decide that you won't play him again, and you might tell him that, and you might even tell him that's it because he's an objectionable ass. But you should finish the game unless the guy is being a truly colossal jerk.

yeah.. I lose all the time.. :}

@ Sebster

You tell someone you're going to play a game, you owe it to them to finish that game unless you've got a really good reason. Quitting in the middle of the game because the other guy is annoying means you're running the risk of being TFG.

Afterwards you might decide that you won't play him again, and you might tell him that, and you might even tell him that's it because he's an objectionable ass. But you should finish the game unless the guy is being a truly colossal jerk.

I 100% disagree with this. I have no problem playing someone who is unsure of the rules or who gets them wrong as long as they are trying to get it right. But there is not a hope in hell I am wasting the small and I consider very valuable ammount of time I get to actually play on someone who is going to cheat or display a crap attitude. At a tournament fine there is nothing I can do about it but for social play as far as I am concerned both/all players need to enjoy the game or it is a waste of time.

Ed_Bodger wrote:I 100% disagree with this. I have no problem playing someone who is unsure of the rules or who gets them wrong as long as they are trying to get it right. But there is not a hope in hell I am wasting the small and I consider very valuable ammount of time I get to actually play on someone who is going to cheat or display a crap attitude. At a tournament fine there is nothing I can do about it but for social play as far as I am concerned both/all players need to enjoy the game or it is a waste of time.

Fair enough that you disagree, but I've found from personal experience that exactly what is acceptable behaviour can be pretty subjective. If a guy says his troops have 2 attacks and he refuses to check it in his book, then yeah, stop playing. But if he gets a stat wrong, you ask him to check and he does, do you stop? What if he makes another mistake later that just happens to benefit him? I'm not sure where the line is an in the heat of the moment I figure it's best to be really cautious about where that line is.

Maybe I'm not that great a judge, but I'd certainly say to unless it's really obvious give the other guy a full game before making a decision.

Most cheaters don't even properly hide it.

Soladrin wrote:Most cheaters don't even properly hide it.

I know. It's like they need to practice at cheating better.

cheating doesn't feel good though. i cheated once, but still lost horrifically, as usual, so i never tried again. and im sure he knew i'd done it.
i always let cheaters off though, because i know it doesnt really feel good and i don't mind losing, unless theres a really great opportunity that cheating player completely misses, such as moving a bit too close than he actually can to my 7 heavy flamer Warlocks..

Soladrin wrote:Most cheaters don't even properly hide it.

I find that most cheating is either "misremembering" a stat or measurement cheating, like measuring movement from the frontmost model in a unit, then putting the rest of the models ahead of him, thus adding 3-4" to the move. Mostly its very well hidden because they try to make it look like an honest mistake or carelessness.

The closest I've ever come to cheating was in a game with TFG (made a show of challenging me in front of my friends and talking trash before the game). He was the kind of guy who doesn't make it clear what he's rolling for until he sees the result. Anyway, my Defiler got a direct hit on his terminators and in his pattern of arrogance (and incorrectly correcting me) he rolled his saves and removed all of them, having rolled the dice between 3-6. Obviously he assumed the cannon was AP 2 rather than 3, but the fact that he didn't even tell me what he was rolling for meant I didn't feel bad. In other circumstances, I've corrected opponents in ways that have meant the loss of units and games for me.

This story made me smile. Always good to see TFG get his come-uppins.

TFGs are the main reason I bring my Rulebook if I'm gaming away from home. When I catch a cheater though, I make the assumption that it was a geniune lack of understanding, find the offended rule, and show it to them, explaining how it works if need be. Most of the time I only do this once in a game and TFG will no longer try cheating, and play a straight game. Those that continue their behavior I show mercy to two more times. After that, I inform one of the clerks when they come down to the bunker to check on the games and they usually tell the guy to shape up or forget about using their bunker.

My worst experience was with a Chaos player 2 years ago. He kept insisting that his Predator could tankshock -through- buildings. No matter how I tried to say no, he kept insisting that it was a rule for Chaos tanks. I finally agreed to let him TS through non-fortified buildings if he agreed to let me do the same. He rudely replied with "Are they Chaos tanks? No? Then no they can't. Sucks to be you." And that was it. I'd had it.

I grabbed him by his shirt collar and explained, in a calm but intimidating way, that I was very good friends with the owner and that I could easily make sure he never set foot inside the store again. I let him go, and he stares at me for a couple seconds. Then, he starts packing up his stuff in silence. He heads to the stairs, pauses at the top, and says "I won, douchebag". Whatever. Not by any count I knew of. I shrug it off and pack up my stuff. Soon as I come through the doorway, a 4th ed rulebook in Hardcover whips towards me and smokes me in the right shoulder. The kid bolts for the door, but snags one of his case's straps on a nearby hook. He makes the mistake of stopping to untangle it, and one of the Clerks grabs him by the arm, hauls him over to the counter, and tells him to either give them a valid home phone number, or they're calling the cops. So they end up calling his mum, and ask me if I still want them to contact the cops, to which I laughed. I explained that beating his army senseless to the point of his ragequit, then waiting for his mum to arrive, was more than reward enough for me.

Never did see that kid again, but I think it might have been because his mum must've skinned him when they got home. She was about 50 different shades of pissed off when she walked into the store.

Not a true TFG but an amusing story that took place last monday night in a league game. We have around 20-25 players in a weekly league consisting of a couple tournament goers, a couple wannabe power gamers, casual gamers, and a junior high/high school crowd.

The league is 10 weeks long and everyone must play a different player each week. This league is special as there are xbox 360 style achievements set up by the league orginizer and each games has a posible 5 objective points, 5 killpoints that you declare during deployment, and 5 bonus points. I've been spending the last 4 weeks trying to get some of the special achievements.

I've been playing a rather odd list of Lysander, Cassius, a tech marine, 6 grey knight terminators in a land raider crusader, 6 assault terminators in a land raider redeemer, a 5 man tac squad in a razorback, and 8 scouts with cloaks, sniper rifles/HB, and Telion.

The list was geared to win a "diplomatic victory" achievement that involves getting more objective then the other player, while not reducing any of his troop units to below half strength. Thanks to the use of tank shocking I was able to do this and didn't retool my list afterwords.

So one of the wanna be power gamers ends up really blasting the high school/junior high crowd as well as the casual gamers. I get paired up with him. He's running IG with a 40 man blob squad with 4 lascannons, yarrick, and 4 meltas. His platoon command with mortor. 2 regular russes with heavy bolters. 2 demolisher russes with lascannons. Marbo, and another 10 man vet squad with 4 melta guns. He also had 5 grey knight terminators allied in.

It was dawn of war and I won the roll off and deployed first. Needless to say he couldn't see my land raiders due to nightfight, couldn't damage them 2nd turn when they poped smoke, and by the end of the game I had him tabled except for yarrick who got up a 3rd time. In the entire game he only shock 1 land raider once, killed 4 scouts, 1 grey knight terminator, and 2 assault terminators. I ended up getting the achievements for not giving up any objectives and killpoints that game.

I think the dice gods were giving me some karma boosts due to his ruthlessness when facing the younger players.

I've never played against any cheaters but I've observed games with cheating in them, and called them on it too.

It's mostly pathetic things like rolling dice and picking up a '3' when they actually needed '4s' or ahem, 'forgetting' their army's special rules when it suits them.

The absoloute pet peev for me is people who move up the first model of the squad, and then completely re-organise their entire formation because they 'haven't moved more than 6" forward'. This normally results in a flamer that would have otherwise been quite useless, now getting perfect positioning.

Really grinds me that does....

Good job on your victory Dash! Made me smile reading it.

L. Wrex

I've got one not of me beating TFG but of my friend.

In a 500 point tournament he organized for a small group of us he has a pretty strong army that had a Canoness with inferno pistol power weapon and Cloak of St. Aspire. An Callidus Assassin, Two units of of Battle sisters each with 11 models 1 Veteran Sister Superior with a plasma pistol and two melta guns. and a Exorcist. It seemed like a solid list to me and just thought me stretched his points and had practiced like the rest of us but that army actually comes to 685 points. Also you can't even bring an assassin without an inquisitor in your army.

We were having a small tournament between 4 of us, round robin style.

SW=Me
Orks= Friend A
CSM= Friend B
Witchhunter= TFG

first battles:
SW vs. WH
Orks vs. CSM

Second Battle:
SW vs. CSM
Orks vs. WH

Third Battle:
Sw vs. Orks
Csm vs. WH

Victories:
SW - L/W/W
Orks - L/W/L
Csm - W/L/L
WH - W/L/W

So the TFG won almost every game except for the one battle with the orks. A few things with Friend A though, first thing is he was a fairly new player even though he was on his second army, he never was able to get any games in. and second this was his first game with his new ork army he had just bought.

So I wasn't watching the whole game but the main things I heard about from him was TFG shot at The warboss that was part of a 'ard boys unit ............ does anyone see a problem there? me and friend B were done with our game and playing rock band with other people so we weren't able to correct him.

30 orks charged the SoB straight across the board and got there fast! and at the same time a trukk with boys and a warboss run at the other group. on the second turn the orks have taken very few wounds and are in assault with the two SoB. The boys kill SoB in the first turn of combat. The other unit with the warboss don't quite finish off the other unit of Sisters. During TFG's turn the assassin came into play right behind the warboss but the assassin who shouldn't have even bee there. Then the HQ of the WH shot at the warboss and placed a wound on the warboss...... that the warboss in return ripped her in half his turn. the warboss was killed by the exorcist also shotting at HIM when he was in a unit of boys.

All that was left then was one unit of 11 boys one being a nob, the other unit had been reduced to only 5 boys one being a nob with a big choppa. TFG only had his exorcist left. In our games if its like that we generally call it just cause we say the person with troop wins if you only have a tank left but not TFG o god no he needs to prove he's the best still so he runs his exorcist to the edge of the board and turns its rear armor to the table edge and starts to fire shots off at the bigger boy squad. the next turn the boys make it over to the exorcist and start to bang on the side armor of it not even glancing though. the next turn the bigger boy squad is finished off and again the boys hit and cant even glance. the turn after that the exorcist shots at the small unit that is hitting it and kills all but the nob. That turn the nob with his big choppa rolls a 6 and penetrates it then on the roll to see what happens....... 6!!!! HAHAHA the explodes but the nob has to make a save.... AND HE MADE IT!! one nob left on the board everything else was dead it. TFG tried to say it was a tie but I said "hell no he whooped your ass you have to take this loss!" (I didn't like him even before he cheated xD)

For friend A to beat a TFG with huge handycap it was so awesome to see

metallifan wrote:This story made me smile. Always good to see TFG get his come-uppins.

TFGs are the main reason I bring my Rulebook if I'm gaming away from home. When I catch a cheater though, I make the assumption that it was a geniune lack of understanding, find the offended rule, and show it to them, explaining how it works if need be. Most of the time I only do this once in a game and TFG will no longer try cheating, and play a straight game. Those that continue their behavior I show mercy to two more times. After that, I inform one of the clerks when they come down to the bunker to check on the games and they usually tell the guy to shape up or forget about using their bunker.

My worst experience was with a Chaos player 2 years ago. He kept insisting that his Predator could tankshock -through- buildings. No matter how I tried to say no, he kept insisting that it was a rule for Chaos tanks. I finally agreed to let him TS through non-fortified buildings if he agreed to let me do the same. He rudely replied with "Are they Chaos tanks? No? Then no they can't. Sucks to be you." And that was it. I'd had it.

I grabbed him by his shirt collar and explained, in a calm but intimidating way, that I was very good friends with the owner and that I could easily make sure he never set foot inside the store again. I let him go, and he stares at me for a couple seconds. Then, he starts packing up his stuff in silence. He heads to the stairs, pauses at the top, and says "I won, douchebag". Whatever. Not by any count I knew of. I shrug it off and pack up my stuff. Soon as I come through the doorway, a 4th ed rulebook in Hardcover whips towards me and smokes me in the right shoulder. The kid bolts for the door, but snags one of his case's straps on a nearby hook. He makes the mistake of stopping to untangle it, and one of the Clerks grabs him by the arm, hauls him over to the counter, and tells him to either give them a valid home phone number, or they're calling the cops. So they end up calling his mum, and ask me if I still want them to contact the cops, to which I laughed. I explained that beating his army senseless to the point of his ragequit, then waiting for his mum to arrive, was more than reward enough for me.

Never did see that kid again, but I think it might have been because his mum must've skinned him when they got home. She was about 50 different shades of pissed off when she walked into the store.

Epic.

Lycaeus Wrex wrote:I've never played against any cheaters but I've observed games with cheating in them, and called them on it too.

It's mostly pathetic things like rolling dice and picking up a '3' when they actually needed '4s' or ahem, 'forgetting' their army's special rules when it suits them.

The absoloute pet peev for me is people who move up the first model of the squad, and then completely re-organise their entire formation because they 'haven't moved more than 6" forward'. This normally results in a flamer that would have otherwise been quite useless, now getting perfect positioning.

Really grinds me that does....

Good job on your victory Dash! Made me smile reading it.

L. Wrex

Yea, cheaters are out there whether they be TFG or just somone who forgets, that's why i usually try to take it upon myself when i'm not playing to watch any of my friends games, surveying the oponent for anything he may "slip up on" purposeful or not. Ive saved alot of cheating that way. Because some of my friends are those kinds of players that know nothing outside their own codex, and would give you the benfit of a doubt if you told them that your orks all counted as jump infantry.

when does a guy become TFG?

I've never knowingly played against a obvious cheater, but I've played a few people who are madly picky about exact measuring, deploying exactly within 2" of doors, getting 50% of their unit in cover by pushing their coherency to the max and then claiming a cover save for the whole squad when plenty of models are out in the open. Not letting you swivel you tanks in the movement phase.

Sure they're all rules as written, but there's a point where playing the rules defeats the enjoyment of the game.

I play by the rules, but if someone says I have to destroy my whole squad because they can't fit within 2" of the transport's doors; well it just seems mad.