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Hey there guys,

I got wondering about Imperial Guard strategies and armaments... and it occurred to me.

The sole required standardisation in an IG army is that they must be armed with lasguns, IIRC... Does that mean worlds that can arm their men better aren't allowed to do so?

Really, I came upon that thought because I thought about how the IG waste so much manpower... and I wondered if there were any worlds that had the capabilities of arming every man with a boltgun, giving them decent training and deploying them like we do our armed forces today...

Would that violate IG doctrine?

I don't think so, no. The problem is that in order to fit everything into the game, they have to streamline everything down.

But if you wanted to convert an army to look like that (as I've seen quite a few people do), go ahead. However, you will need to use the regular lasgun/veteran rules in order to play them.

Oh I don't want to make an army along those lines, I love cannon fodder

I just found myself thinking about how sustainable the IG's war efforts were.

Even in the fluff there are examples of IG commanders and regiments which don't do cannon fodder, either working like modern armies, or other specialist forces (drop troops, mountain/forest/desert/etc specialists).

But it is not grimdark enough to show people fighting without wasting millions of lives and material

I would imagine that they would just be equipped with higher quality lasguns. The lasgun also confers huge strategic advantages over another weapon like the boltgun due to easy maintenance and availability and ability to recharge in the field. Comparing a lasgun to a bolter is a lot like comparing a Sherman to a Tiger tank. Tactically the Tiger is superior in every way, but Sherman's were easier to build, easier to mass produce, and easier to keep going in the field. If a Tiger broke down, it was harder to find replacement parts and a specialist needed to be brought in to fix it due more complex machinery. Basically what I'm trying to say is that even a well equipped army would do better to keep things cost effective.

1. Twig them out as vets/stromtrooper/grenadiers
Or
2. PLay another codex's rules and convert.
-SOB's good FF/BS rules. Good antitank and support. Use them as heavy infantry/heavy assault.

-Tau. Enough said.

-Eldar. Use DA's as your primary force. With baldestorm they could again represent a very mechanized, very proficient killing force.

I'd think they would have to take standard lasguns even if they could produce better, its the whole issue of resupply. If their planet if the only one producing ammo for their guns, no way are thay going to be able to keep all their regiments resupplied as they will be scattered all over the galaxy.

I alway imagined there just wasn't enough bolters to go around, in all the space marine books I've read all the bolters seem to herilooms, plus i imagine they are a lot heavier. Think about it people who normally carry bolters wear power armor (sisters and marines)

Take a look on the Forgeworld website. You'll see a Tallarn weapons pack, with a specific kind of Lasgun and the Elysian weapons pack, which has yet another. Compare those to the standard Cadian/Catachan pattern, and then compare all of those to the Vostroyan lasguns, some of which are considered precious artifacts in their culture.

Remember that the Imperium is vast, and that there are hundreds of Fore Worlds producing different patters of lasguns. Some are naturally going to better than others, just as Kalashnikov type weapons built in different countries are going to be of different qualities.

like Endova said, there is a huge varity in the quality of lasguns across the impierium.

i would imagine that the Vostorians lasguns are basically mastercafted, or count as Hotshot lasguns.

There are regiments that forgo lasguns in favor of laspistols and CCWs. Catachan anyone?

the problem with the varity is there must be a standardization for the codex. although the options for some varity would be nice.


is there standardization across the impierium? Hell No, but lasguns are the common denominator with any varity between makes of LG negligable.

Game balance

Depends on a world since some planets raise heavy infantry regiments who have hot-shot lasguns and carpace armor as a standard equipment.

SpankHammer III wrote:plus i imagine they are a lot heavier. Think about it people who normally carry bolters wear power armor (sisters and marines)

Not entirely true. According to the Dark heresy rule book the bolters used by standard humans and the ones used by the astartes are very different. When describing bolters It says something like "While immensely powerful these bolters are nothing compared to the ones carried by the astartes"

Wouldn't all Lasguns be based on an STC design? the key word being "Standard" so any difference are likely to be minimal.

The upliftng imperial primer and Munitorium guide both suggest that the only difference between lasguns produced on different planets is the materials and process used used in the construction of the body of the rifle e.g. sight, stock types, rather tahn the workings.

Although in Guns of Tanith there is a problem as the ghost don't take the same size powerpacks, however this still more of a comestic issue.

The vostoyan's rifle while heirlooms does not mean that the are any more effective. Personally I just imagined they were more ornate.

Shas'O Dorian: Take your point that the bolters could be modified to be more non power armor friendly, but i still imaige that they would be heavier than a Lasgun.

Not every regiment is equipped with a lasgun.

Remember that the Cadian regiments -and Cadia itself - are held in such incredibly high regard by the Imperium and it's worlds that many choose to follow their example and use Cadian-pattern armour, guns and organisation.

But there are many, many different regiments and worlds.

If you're read Flesh and Iron, the second book of the Bastion Wars series, the Riverine Amphibious opt to equip fully half their number with Autoguns over Lasguns.

You'd be most free to, for example, have a Guard force modelled with autoguns, lower-caliber bolters or even exotic alien/plasma-based weapons for use as counts-as Guardsmen with Lasguns.

The process of manufacture can create massive differences in the quality of a material, let alone a complex device such as a weapon.

Think of the difference between cast and forged iron... both the same material, but very different properties.

Forge worlds have different patterns they work from as well - STC templates are rare, and from what I have seen can sometimes only be partial blueprints for creating the item - the gaps have to be filled in some how and different forges will do it in different ways.

Thus it is possible for weapons of the same type from different forges to have different strengths as well as looks.

I have read Flesh and Iron

Sorry don't really remeber the guardmen using auto guns, only the insurgents (not saying your wrong). But autoguns are just as cheap and crappy as las rifles if not more so. Most PDF regiments seem to have them.

I remeber reading some fluff that some ork fighter prefer autoguns because of the noise they make cause the orks to respect/fear them more (sorry can't remember the source).

I wasn't really arguing that regiments wouldn't use something else other than lasrifles, more that lasrifles are pretty standard and that you would give your regiment something too individual otherwise you'd have supply issues.

SilverMK2 - agree with most of what you say, and in the fluff lasguns not only sound different but also have different color las, which is going to be down to the points you made. I just think the difference are going to be minor at best when it comes to performance. You can't tell me that forge worlds don't have quality control.

Auto-guns and lasguns have about the same effectivness as far as Damage output goes.

Lasguns have an advantage in that the ammo is far FAR less bulky.

6 power packs vs 100 magazines. both have about the same number of shots.

Powerpacks can be replenished in the field with generators or in a pinch, fires.

solid ammo requires regular resupply.

so while there is no difference as far as the gamesystem goes, lasguns are simpler from a logistical standpoint.


go ahead and model your men with Autoguns. they are on par with lasguns and look cooler.

The point of the codex is to supply a balanced selection of values for game play.

If you want to arm your IG with a different type of las rifle, it doesn't matter what it looks like providing the in game cost and stats are the same.

It is when you start arming IG with weapons they shouldn't have that you run into balance issues.

For example, suppose you did a heretical PDF on the eastern fringe frontier which had been trading with the Tau and equipped all its infantry with pulse rifles. I'm sure you can see the problem.

Miraclefish wrote:Not every regiment is equipped with a lasgun.

Remember that the Cadian regiments -and Cadia itself - are held in such incredibly high regard by the Imperium and it's worlds that many choose to follow their example and use Cadian-pattern armour, guns and organisation.

But there are many, many different regiments and worlds.

If you're read Flesh and Iron, the second book of the Bastion Wars series, the Riverine Amphibious opt to equip fully half their number with Autoguns over Lasguns.

You'd be most free to, for example, have a Guard force modelled with autoguns, lower-caliber bolters or even exotic alien/plasma-based weapons for use as counts-as Guardsmen with Lasguns.

Damn Cadians, the Ultrasmurfs of the guard

From a logistics stand point it makes more sense to equip elite unit with storm trooper hot shot las guns than bolters or even storm bolters. Hot shot las guns use the same ammunition as regular lasguns. IG players love to make fun of flashlights, but wars are won and lost based off supplies. Rechargeable power packs is a quantum leap forward in logistics when compared to bulky autogun ammunition that can only be replenished through factory resupply.

*sigh* Again with the hot-shot lasguns.

"Hot-shot" refers to the powerpacks.

Not to any actual difference between the weapons.

A hot-shot lasgun just seems to be the creation of Robin Cruddace that is a bad reference to the older 2nd edition Stormtroopers. "Hot-shots" from then became Hellguns(and really should've stayed that way).

TL;DR version:
"Hot-shot" Lasguns wouldn't use the same ammunition as regular lasguns--exclusively because of the fact that a hot-shot utilizes a different kind of ammo pack.

i think that while "hotshot" does refer to the powerpack, there are lasguns specifically made to fire those packs.

the reason is that the packs can damage the gun.

so while any lasgun can use the pack it is ideal for a specilist gun that won't get damaged after a few dozen rounds.


in short: there are both "hotshot" lasguns and powerpacks. the gun is a specialist weapon for the pack while the pack itself is interchangable.

See, now if that's true:

Why aren't there hotshot sniper rifles?
Why does Larkin use a standard lasgun with some of his own custom fittings and just load them with hotshot packs?

because the Hotshot packs warp the barrels and we all know what happens if a guardsmen breaks his gun without reason.


Munitorim manuel: Crimes and punishment section i believe.

What does that have to do with the lack of hotshot sniper rifles?

it doesn't

i remember in Only in Death. the snipers used hotshot powerpacks and the rifles needed to replace the barrels every dozen shots or so.

i think Snipers do use Hotshot powerpacks. las-bolts lose effectivness at range so Hotshot packs are used to extend the range and make a sniper rifle.

That's exactly what I said...?

I think we're getting some wires crossed in the communication.

The sniper rifles we read about from the Tanith Ghosts are standard lasguns, with hotshot powerpacks loaded in.

However, Larkin and the other snipers also mention that they use reinforced barrels that are easy to swap out--due to the tendency of hotshot bolts to warp the barrels.

Anyone forget that whole chunks of the IG are armed with autoguns? basically assault rifles...

Nobody forgets that, because it's not technically the Imperial Guard--it's mostly Planetary Defense Forces that are armed with Autoguns.

And gamewise, Autoguns are the same as Lasguns.

The lasgun it not a bad weapon. Many IG regiments, like the Cadians, are trained and equipped much more thoroughly than modern earth forces. The only reason that the IG are seen as low quality or expendable is that careful tactics only work so well against endless swarms of killers and tank armored men.