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I'd like to share my other passion, fishkeeping, with you for a moment and show you the works of the greatest artist in Aquascaping, Mr Takashi Amano. A personal hero of mine.

Can't see those at work, but I keep trying my hand at fishkeeping and can never keep the algae at bay.

GG

Keeping a tank functioning is a hell of a lot of effort.

generalgrog wrote:Can't see those at work, but I keep trying my hand at fishkeeping and can never keep the algae at bay.

GG

1. keep the tank out of direct sunlight.

2. double the level of filtration.

3. plants, especially floating plants, the roots of floating plants are taking the nitrate/nitrites directly out of the water.

4. cut the amount you're feeding in half.

5. are you keeping heavyweights like cichlids or carnivore oddballs like snakeheads or catfish, their waste load is very heavy on filters and will leave the nitrate levels too high.


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Frazzled wrote:Keeping a tank functioning is a hell of a lot of effort.

It's really not, once it's up and running effectively after the ammonia spikes of the first few weeks, once it's established, a well stocked, well planted and very well filtered tank should require no more effort than a once a fortnight 10% water change and filter clean.

The problems come from people overstocking and under filtering. I always double the filtration capacity on a tank and only populate 2/3rds of the recommended level (unless I'm keeping mbuna, which thrive on dense crowding and therefore have 3 times the level of filtration...)

Yea that sounds right. Lugging water was always the pain.

Eh, once a week or two weeks you change some water. I have a 44 gallon tank and maintenance on it takes about half an hour every two weeks. I have a 10 gallon that maintenance takes about fifteen minutes on.

If you really don't wanna lug water you can always buy a python which will do all your siphoning to the kitchen sink and then refill from the faucet. No buckets at all.

Tyyr wrote:Eh, once a week or two weeks you change some water. I have a 44 gallon tank and maintenance on it takes about half an hour every two weeks. I have a 10 gallon that maintenance takes about fifteen minutes on.

If you really don't wanna lug water you can always buy a python which will do all your siphoning to the kitchen sink and then refill from the faucet. No buckets at all.

You probably don't mean this kind of python.

Well if you train it properly... or hollow it out...

MeanGreenStompa wrote:

1. keep the tank out of direct sunlight.

I have a 90 gallon (rectangular) and it is currently in my kitchen. There is a window in a room adjacent that is not in direct line of sight of the tank, approximate distance is 20 feet away. So it's not right next to the window but it could get diffused sunlight from the room.

I have a light hood cost me $280 that has 4 flourescent lights I forget right now what the wattage is, but I sized it to my 90 gallon tank. It also has the the little blue LED night lights that come on to simulate moonlight. I was keeping the day lights on for about 8 hours.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
2. double the level of filtration.

I have a wet dry sized for 90+ gallons. It was a salt water tank when I was in Florida. But I am just doing a community tank now since that is what my 7 year old likes. I also bought an expensive UV sterilizer which did absolutley nothing to kill the algae.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
3. plants, especially floating plants, the roots of floating plants are taking the nitrate/nitrites directly out of the water.

I purchased a massive amount of plants from aquariumplants.com and had the thing nicely aquascaped with amazon swords and other nuetral to slightly acidic loving plants. I even purchased the gravel that is supposed to help the plants thrive.....didn't work either.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
4. cut the amount you're feeding in half..

Tried that, didn't work.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
5. are you keeping heavyweights like cichlids or carnivore oddballs like snakeheads or catfish, their waste load is very heavy on filters and will leave the nitrate levels too high. ..

As mentioned, just doing barbs and other small community fish.

I have been into the fish hobbby off and on for 20 years. The best success I have had was with african cichlids and saltwater and even south american cichlids with plastic plants. For some reason when ever I try to do a live plant aquarium it fails. I tried doing Discus and it failed, and now I have tried doing just plain jane community tank and the algae comes back every time. The algae eaters won't touch the stuff....I don't know what to do anymore.....help me Obi Wan...your my only hope.
I would really like to make a lushly planted freshwater aquarium work, but I'm discouraged.


GG

You have a 7 year old...

Who else might be feeding the tank when you're not about?
I've noticed other folks just add a little bit.. well, where's the harm right?

Also what are the readings from your fresh tapwater? Are you treating it with something decent like Ammo-Lock 2 (recommended) which will not just break down chlorine and ammonia but also the dreaded Chloramine which some bloody water companies are adding to their water.

Also mind out for floride, some water companies are adding it to the water supply and it's toxic as hell for fish.

Also, what kinds of algae are you talking about, do you mean that thick carpeting algae, the blue/green stuff? Cos that is a algae/bacteria crossover and is totally and directly linked to excess food/biological wastes.

Plants wise, the commonly kept Cryptocorynes, anubias and aponogentons are all very slow growing and therefore have little intake of the nitrate cycle (ammonia, nitrites and nitrate) and will be taking it from the substrate mainly. Cryptos are also likely to go into 'Crypto shock' when introduced to a new tank, shedding all their leaves and therefore adding heavily to the nitrate load. It's only once you've got the balance, later on, that they'd help stabilise things. I used the floating plant Salvinia Natans and it reproduces very quickly, going an attractive red/orange under a strong light.

One very important thing. The really heavily planted tanks you see on display have a very low fish count and use special mixed substrates (not gravel btw), heat mats for under tank heating and added CO2 (which is detrimental to fish in large quantities and therefore further limits the stock levels.

Run some tests on what your water is like coming out the facet, if you can't test for chloramide, chlorine and floride, ask the water company.

Reduce the lighting time by an hour. Also is the lit time different to the time there is ambient room lighting from the sunlight? If so then you got an over lighting issue, remember how lux high even indirect sunlight is going to be, then you're adding more light.

Your 4 tube hood sounds like a T5 holder, like this from arcadia.
http://www.arcadia-uk.info/product.php?pid=3&mid=10&lan=en&sub=&id=4
T5s are very powerful, holding about 4-5 times the output of a standard florescent tube.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Also, what kinds of algae are you talking about, do you mean that thick carpeting algae, the blue/green stuff? Cos that is a algae/bacteria crossover and is totally and directly linked to excess food/biological wastes.

I do the water test kits and all the nitrate and nitrite tests are good. The algae is a dark green stuff that will literally cover everything. if left unattended it will literally start growing and floating in the water.

Keep in mind that the problem isn't with keeping the fish alive, it's with keep the plants alive and the algae down.

MeanGreenStompa wrote:
Your 4 tube hood sounds like a T5 holder, like this from arcadia.
http://www.arcadia-uk.info/product.php?pid=3&mid=10&lan=en&sub=&id=4
T5s are very powerful, holding about 4-5 times the output of a standard florescent tube.

I thought it could be an issue with too much lighting as well, but the stuff grows even when there is no overhead lighting at all.

My light hood is very similar to this model http://cgi.ebay.com/48-POWER-COMPACT-FLUORESCENT-FISH-TANK-AQUARIUM-LIGHT-/390190060724?cmd=ViewItem&pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ad923d4b4

excpet mine also has the blue LEDS.

GG

Yep, then we know what it is then.

It's the 'blue green' algae, which isn't an algae at all, hence the light not overly affecting it. It's a Cyanobacteria.

Try this remedy:
http://www.aquaticcommunity.com/aquariumforum/showthread.php?t=18775

I'll have to look at that. Gonna have to start from scratch......again.

thanks

GG

Hmmm... further sneaking about reveals that phosphates are a serious issue in some parts of the States water supplies.

It could well be that you're in a heavy phosphate area.

http://www.aquariumpros.com/articles/phosphates.shtml

Well I was able to watch those videos when I got home and I must say that they are very inspiring. I actually had something similar with my tank when I tried raising some discus. This was when I was in Florida and before I went to saltwater(15 yeasr ago). I had some driftwood jutting into the water from the top of the tank lid. It looked spectacular for about 2 months until the discus died and the plants died. LOL .

The thing is... I did evrything supposedly the correct way. Even the aquarium shop owner was puzzled as to why I failed.

Anywhoo I'm gonna have to purchase some of mr Amanos books.

GG

edit...man I would love to have tank that size and those Altum angelfish were beautiful!!


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Have you seen this one!!



I had a friend who owned an Oscar, and had it for many years. The fish would let him actually pick it up, and take it out of the water to pet it!!

GG

I'm thinking given you're experience level that if things are going wrong and you're certain (really) that there isn't overfeeding and isn't overstocking, then the fault lies with the water you're adding. Whilst a RO unit would be pricey, it may prove worth it. Use one and then add a water mineral additive.

Alternatively get a nice big water butt and collect rainwater.

Those are very nice discus, I've got a flooded amazon forest floor planned for when I move, discus, tetras, apistogrammas and corys. I'm not a fan of the solid colour discus, I hear they are weaker due to inbreeding.

I also owned an oscar for about 20 years, called attila, he'd invert at the surface to get his belly tickled and would jump clear of the water to take waxworms or earthworms from my hand.

This thread's making me want to finally get around to getting a tank set up. I'd almost start but then never really get around to it

Near where I live there was a big old Garden Centre and fish stockist that had a number of display tanks set up - one of which was a really nice marine fish setup with real coral and Nemo-type fish and shrimps and all that good stuff - it looked spectacular.

Yeh Clown Fish are pretty cool.

Clowns are great fish and easy to keep for a marine species... but the anemone they live in is a far harder proposition, needing a colossal amount of light. Most anemones are dying by the time they reach the shop. Luckily captive bred clowns don't need em and wild ones will accept some hardy LPS corals or soft corals.

And my favourite is the Yellow Striped Maroon Clownfish, which is larger than the common clown and considerably more aggressive but really beautiful.

My missus and I were thinking about getting a marine setup at one point (this was before the imminent arrival of the baby!) as we used to keep coldwater fish; however, I have heard that marine fish are ruinously expensive and notoriously difficult to maintain.

Ruinously expensive, yes depending on your definitions.

Notoriously difficult to maintain, no, especially if you've spend the ruinous amounts on good equipment.

All fishkeeping is about initial outlay.
Marine fishkeeping is divided, to my mind, into 3 categories of expense and difficulty.
1. fish only, the easiest and least expensive.
2. fish and soft corals/large polyp hardy species corals.
3. small polyp reef aquariums, with corals like acoraporas, very pricey and high maintainence.

Ah I was under the impression that it was all too easy to slip up on something small like pH level and end up wiping out your £100's worth of fish?

filbert wrote:Ah I was under the impression that it was all too easy to slip up on something small like pH level and end up wiping out your £100's worth of fish?

Not really, use a decent Reverse Osmosis unit for your water, use a decent ocean salt and minerals addition like the Red Sea brand and you'll be fine with that.

(RO units aren't cheap but it's the way to go, especially with all the crap water companies are adding now, like flouride (because apparently we can't be trusted to clean our own teeth...), phosphates, chloromide, clorine etc).

If you're setting up a saltwater tank you buy an RO unit, period. I've yet to see a single person who set up a tank and keep it long term not eventually buy one due to issues with things like phosphates, nitrates, ammonia, or things like that. A saltwater tank without RO water is a constant struggle.

MGS I actually have an RO unit, but I think the one I purchased is too small, and it became a real chore to do water changes and "recondition" the water. I think I would buy one that would make things much easier and make the job of fishkeeping more fun than "work".

GG

Tyyr wrote:A saltwater tank without RO water is a constant struggle.

I'd go further, a saltwater tank without RO water is a massacre waiting to happen, all it takes is one day of the local water company adding something to get rid of a bacteria bloom in the resevoir and your entire biological filtration gets wasted, then everything in the tank dies.

generalgrog wrote:MGS I actually have an RO unit, but I think the one I purchased is too small, and it became a real chore to do water changes and "recondition" the water. I think I would buy one that would make things much easier and make the job of fishkeeping more fun than "work".

GG

I know of several discus keepers who use RO water and additives, I also know of one who breeds discus, corys and apistos using just the rain water from his water butt, collected from his plastic guttering, which is very soft and acidic and additive free. Don't know what the rainfall is like where you are though, he's in soggy Cornwall UK, where that's not an issue.

Oh and before I forget, I know barley straw has been used with claims of success in ponds for killing off algae, my aunt uses it on her koi pond, that might be an idea to look into as well. Or it might be a wives tale, I've no experience there.

Couple things about RO sizing, how much water are you changing and what's the rating on the RO unit? I'd recommend using a big barrel for water storage.

How I'd do it,

50 gallon per day RO unit, output into a 50 or 55 gallon drum kept somewhere that if it overflows it's not a big deal, either in a containment basin or in the garage. Before I go to work turn on the RO unit, when I get home from work turn it off. If it goes for 12 hours you'll get about 25 gallons of RO water which should do for a change in a 90 gallon tank.

Alternately you can get an automatic top off system that will automatically fill your RO container and shut off when it's full.

Tyyr wrote:Couple things about RO sizing, how much water are you changing and what's the rating on the RO unit? I'd recommend using a big barrel for water storage.

How I'd do it,

50 gallon per day RO unit, output into a 50 or 55 gallon drum kept somewhere that if it overflows it's not a big deal, either in a containment basin or in the garage. Before I go to work turn on the RO unit, when I get home from work turn it off. If it goes for 12 hours you'll get about 25 gallons of RO water which should do for a change in a 90 gallon tank.

Alternately you can get an automatic top off system that will automatically fill your RO container and shut off when it's full.

Mine was about 15 gallons per day, and I had it running into a heated container. It ended up being a lot of work because I don't have a basement and had to run the drip tubing across the floor of the kitchen, to the container. I only ran it at night because of the tubing on the floor issue. Then I had to add the fresh water conditioner back to the RO water... bah.. it just got old real quick, and I wasn't keeping discus just cardinal tetras and corys. But now that I think about it, I wasn't getting the algae problem when I was using the RO so my local water must really suck.

GG

They make 15 gallon per day units?