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Hello,

I came up with this problem a few days ago: People cheat all the time but you can't tell them about it.

It's either they have a dad who stands beside them looking unhappy, or maybe because they often think you are a WAAC player, something I don't want to be.

For example: I faced against an ork mob, with my dire avengers, in about 15-17" range.One of my guy didnt even make his shot!The following turn, he moves towards me, through cover, rolled a 3 for difficult terrain, and rolled a 4 for Waagh and somehow made it into combat!I was saying"umm..4" dude, its only 4 "", but he ignored me until he charged into combat and then looked up to m said "what?"

I cant tell him to go back because we had limited time on the table, but I really hate to see my dire avengers die in this kinda death

What can I do next time?


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Anyone?

My suggestion would be to be a little more assertive with it. He's probably going to keep cheating like that until people really call him out on it or he gets a bad rap for cheating. We had a guy kind of like that at our gaming area, where he would line out his unit in a straight line, and then when the leading guy got into combat he tried to pile in the whole unit, when the guys at the end of the line were sometimes 20" away! That and the classic "I can see you but you can't see me" game during the shooting phase. It wasn't until people were like "Look dude, you can't do that and if you keep it up nobody's going to play against you" that he finally stopped his "tactics".

But then again, some people aren't having any fun when they're losing, and they'll bend and break the rules to make sure they win. If talking to him about it doesn't work or he gets all defensive and fussy, or worse he lackey (parent) gets on your case, then I'd say screw him and just don't play against him again. He'll figure things out pretty quick then.

my friend is really good at dealing with this when he plays with younger players, he usually explains what they were doing wrong as if they were just making a simple mistake and then explains another move on the board that would be good in a very nice manner cuz he is one of the nicest guys.

Tony the guardsman wrote:
For example: I faced against an ork mob, with my dire avengers, in about 15-17" range.One of my guy didnt even make his shot!The following turn, he moves towards me, through cover, rolled a 3 for difficult terrain, and rolled a 4 for Waagh and somehow made it into combat!I was saying"umm..4" dude, its only 4 "", but he ignored me until he charged into combat and then looked up to m said "what?"



What can I do next time?

I agree with the "be more assertive." This is the point where he's making an illegal move and while he's in the middle of it, I would say, "Stop....stop....STOP! Stop moving your models for a minute." Then I would get my tape measure / tac template over there and demonstrate exactly what he's doing. Presume mistake the first time, presume cheating if it continues.

Yeah I agree with what everyone else has said, you pretty much have to be forceful with them, its possible they dont know what they are doing or don't hear what you say when you said it. I've had that happen when I'm moving stuff and people say something to me, goes right in one ear and out the other.

And if the dad is just standing there who cares, what is he going to do get all pissed off and blow up on you cause his kid is cheating or not using the rules right? Then they get banned from the store (assuming) and then you don't have to worry about it again.

If no one tells them how to play it right they never will and then will get all defensive later on when someone goes hey you cant do it and they are all "Well every other game blah blah blah!!"

Dashofpepper wrote:

Tony the guardsman wrote:
For example: I faced against an ork mob, with my dire avengers, in about 15-17" range.One of my guy didnt even make his shot!The following turn, he moves towards me, through cover, rolled a 3 for difficult terrain, and rolled a 4 for Waagh and somehow made it into combat!I was saying"umm..4" dude, its only 4 "", but he ignored me until he charged into combat and then looked up to m said "what?"



What can I do next time?

I agree with the "be more assertive." This is the point where he's making an illegal move and while he's in the middle of it, I would say, "Stop....stop....STOP! Stop moving your models for a minute." Then I would get my tape measure / tac template over there and demonstrate exactly what he's doing. Presume mistake the first time, presume cheating if it continues.

I suppose that could work too. Though I'd still prefer to say something like "I've got half a bottle of Acetone with me and I swear to god if you move another model you can say goodbye to that battlewagon!"

I've noticed that players resort to these kinds of things because they are frustrated with the way that the game is going. I'd say that if you were pounding on him really bad that a squad of Guardians usually won't be a game changer. I would usually ask about it like you did and if they responeded in the way you suggest they do, then pull out all the ropes to show him that it won't make a differance how many inches they steal or how they "roll" the dice.

On the other hand it sucks that people do this sort of thing and letting them get away with it as a mechanic for winning will just encourage them to do it again in the future. In this case I've found asking the parent\lakey as if they are an "impartial" judge what the distance was will reveal if they are really paying attention or not. If they are paying attention most parents will find a way to express how they feel about this sort of behavior. Do NOT use the words cheat, cheating, cheater or lier in this situation. It is vital that you watch your speach pattern when asking, talk in a voice that you know they (the parent) will hear but keep an even and freindly tone, maybe practice a goofy "confused" face in the mirror just for show. Practiced smiles will allow you to get away with a rediculous amount of crap in life. Remember you already know your opponent is cheating all you want is a metric to gauge the response of the onlooker or hopefully encourage them to step in.

The above method can also work when your opponent doesn't have a bodyguard, often games will attract spectators that will notice this type of thing but prefer not get involved. Calling them out can be a little more difficult, you should try to do it in a way that suggests you are asking the bystander so as not to bother your opponent because he is moving his peices\rolling his dice\whatever. There will be some people that still retreat from the question and those people are useless to you, but most will express their opionion after you invite them into the forum. This is what we call peer preasure and it can be a very useful tool in these delicate situations. IMPORTANT: If the bystander you ask sides with your opponent, then asking others until you hear what you want or persuing the question much beyond one or two follow-ups will give you that undesired effect that you mentiond. In this case you just have to live with it, and if it is a place you go to often you would have to swallow your pride and finish the game so as not to look like a sore loser despite the fact that you believe you were cheated.

I will talk to him next time I play, but in the nicer way; actually the nicest I can go cuz I want to build up a polite reputation in my LGS

Thanks a lot people!

People cheat, it's human nature. There are some people who will play with 110% honesty and other's who seem to think Orks have a BS of 4.

Slightly off topic, but we've heard you rant and rave about your eldar plenty of times and your clearly proud of them. Why not post some pics and show them off?

Oh yea, my new eldar army
I'd love to do that but most of them aren't painted yet, I will show off my whole army at once when I finish painting
Hopefully in 1 or 2 month due to my busy school projects

Fair enough.

Point it out to him that hes moving them wrong and show him how/where he should be. I had a guy who was measuring from the front of his rinos and moving the back of the model to the distance marker thus gaining the full length of the models as extra free movement. Took me a couple games to figure out how he moved so quick, then he played dumb.

A firm "excuse me" or the like should get his attention, followed by "I don't quite think you're doing that right, you only rolled X"

Punch them in the face and scream, "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

eldarbgamer13 wrote:Punch them in the face and scream, "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

Good sir I will take that advice and promote it for the rest of my postings.

Kurgash wrote:

eldarbgamer13 wrote:Punch them in the face and scream, "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

Good sir I will take that advice and promote it for the rest of my postings.

Much appreciated, good sir.

eldarbgamer13 wrote:

Kurgash wrote:

eldarbgamer13 wrote:Punch them in the face and scream, "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

Good sir I will take that advice and promote it for the rest of my postings.

Much appreciated, good sir.

Or, good sirs, give him a real scare and put the rodder in a headlock while screaming "SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!"

Partof1 wrote:

eldarbgamer13 wrote:

Kurgash wrote:

eldarbgamer13 wrote:Punch them in the face and scream, "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

Good sir I will take that advice and promote it for the rest of my postings.

Much appreciated, good sir.

Or, good sirs, give him a real scare and put the rodder in a headlock while screaming "SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!"

Yes, Yes good idea old chap

eldarbgamer13 wrote:

Partof1 wrote:

eldarbgamer13 wrote:

Kurgash wrote:

eldarbgamer13 wrote:Punch them in the face and scream, "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

Good sir I will take that advice and promote it for the rest of my postings.

Much appreciated, good sir.

Or, good sirs, give him a real scare and put the rodder in a headlock while screaming "SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!"

Yes, Yes good idea old chap

Quite a quandary to quiz over. A most interesting spectacle gents.

In my experiance a good knowledge of the rules combined with rather large and heavy sticks can help stop cheating.

What's more, let us know how it goes. If you're a novice at reading what type of person you're dealing with then there seem to be a few people on this thread that can help, my self included.

Oh, I've got a game in yesterday with that kid again.I stopped another heresy and I don't think he is willing to cheat anymore after 5-7 adult gamers and me myself teaching him the rules for half an hour

Kurgash wrote:

eldarbgamer13 wrote:

Partof1 wrote:

eldarbgamer13 wrote:

Kurgash wrote:

eldarbgamer13 wrote:Punch them in the face and scream, "BLOOD FOR THE BLOOD GOD!"

Good sir I will take that advice and promote it for the rest of my postings.

Much appreciated, good sir.

Or, good sirs, give him a real scare and put the rodder in a headlock while screaming "SKULLS FOR THE SKULL THRONE!"

Yes, Yes good idea old chap

Quite a quandary to quiz over. A most interesting spectacle gents.

I have no Idea on what you just said so it looks like you:

What?

Tony the guardsman wrote:Oh, I've got a game in yesterday with that kid again.I stopped another heresy and I don't think he is willing to cheat anymore after 5-7 adult gamers and me myself teaching him the rules for half an hour

Spending time with him to teach him the basics and gaining friendship/respect from him towards his fellow gamers is the right approach. Good on you and yours, sir!

i was playing against this kid who would roll his dice behind his tank where i couldn't see it and he always managed to hit/wound/penetrate/kill everthing i had and always pass his saves. even though i lost it just made me laugh.

lol i played a game with a friend a few years ago, like a week before i bought the rulebook. we were playing a 3-way game with another guy. i was SM with IG inside a wooden castle thing (tbf though it was HUGE!!!) with my friend Huw, i then had tyranids coming from the bottom of the board and eldar from the left. my friend James decided to say his wave serpent had 4 wounds (wtf lol) and like a fool i was like ok cool. i destroyed it after 2 turns with a hell of alot of missiles and shooty stuff. when i found out about his lying (he had a rulebook) i was not happy :(

I had a similar problem to your in an 'Aard Boyz tournament a couple of weeks ago. (It was a warm-up tourney.) I was playing two young kids, and clearly neither was particularly concerned with the rules, at least as far as movement goes. I'm not sure how much was actual "cheating" as opposed to just not being used to doing things the right way... the kids game at our FLGS are pretty fast & loose. In any case, they had deployed their troops well beyond their deployment zone. I reminded them what the limit was (12") and asked them to re-deploy their troops. I wandered off for a minute or two to give them some space. When I returned they had moved a few units back, but most of the army was still deployed too far forwards... so I nicely but firmly told them that they were still too far forward, took out my tape measure and measured the distance for them.. pointing out one or two places on the terrain where they could deploy forward to. This time they got it right. On their first turn they started moving their troops well beyond normal movement, so I stopped them, reminded them how far things could legally move, and told them that if they were going to play with adults in an adult tournament, they were expected to behave as adults and follow the rules exactly.

That seemed to get their attention, and play immediately improved. There were one or two other instances during the game, but I calmly called them on it each time, looked up the rule in the book or asked the TO to reinforce my statement if he was available. By-and-large it worked... and I probably got a better game out of those two boys than anyone else that day. In summary: be calm, be firm, be the adult. Let them know that they are doing something incorrect, show or tell them the correct way to do it... and don't proceed with the game until it's done. Let them know that they have a responsibility to play correctly and within the rules, offer to help by looking up the rules or measuring or whatever. Kids will respond well to a calm, confident attitude... and your game will be a lot more enjoyable (or at least less stressful) as a result.

Similar to what one of the other posters mentioned, these kids had also had a hard day... they'd gotten wiped every time they played (including vs. me), so I'm sure some of this was a psychological defense mechanism. I even let them do an extra half a turn after the "game" officially ended so they'd have one more chance to blow things up. Just keep in mind that when most kids play each other, they are probably much looser with the rules than we adults are used to... and they're going to act out more when presented with an adverse situation (i.e. their attention will wander, they may fudge their movements, etc). Be patient, be firm, let them know that you expect a higher standard of behavior from them... you may be surprised at the response you get.

But one problem here, sometimes I take a washroom break(which is just beside my LGS) and when Im back I see them moved up 2 km, when I tell them they disagree and say that they started really close to my units, what should I do?

does the store have cameras?
Or keep a friend there and say he is there incase some of the players might want to swipe you minis. also you could plan your breaks together so you could maximise playing time.