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Alright, first of all, I've been engaged for about 4 months (about 7 days short of 4 months)

My wife is a beautiful women, and is probably the best any wargamer could ask for. She got me in to the hobby. I know.

She told me straight up, half an hour ago, she wanted to have kids when we get married. Just fething said it right there

"So, honey, I really want kids" when we were laying on the couch.

I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to have kids, at all. I am probably the worst model a kid could ever have. I won't go into details.

And, I just hate children. The ones at my shop are probably going to get smacked so hard they fall down next time they ask me if they can touch my figures.

I guess I should admit I am somewhat interested, only to show him how awesome warhammer.

Anyone ever been in this spot before? I know plenty of you are married with kids.

My wife is a beautiful women.

Sounds like a pretty good deal, two for the price of one eh? , Typo.

Did you never talk about this before? Did one of you change their mind all of a sudden?

Well, as a high schooler, I do not exactly have alot of experiance in this feild, but I can pass on what I have heard:

I once heard that the parents who hate kids sometimes make the best parents. This is because they actually raise their kids to be adults, not so they become 30 year old teenagers.

As for not going into details about you being the "worst role model" ever, as long as the stuff that makes you such is behind you, you would be able to use that experiance in raising your kids.

though I would take any advice I give on the subject with a grain of salt, becuase I have no experiance in it.

I'm into month six of engaged living. It helps that my fiancee and I both want children. In fact, neither of us sees much of a point to marriage without children and for us not being able to have them or not being able to afford adoption in the case of fertility problems is a nightmare scenario. So I'm not sure if I'm going to have a totally objective opinion on this matter. But anyway: I would advise you to not make it a deal breaker. Not wanting kids right now is not the same thing as never wanting kids. In fact, saying you never want to have kids is not the same thing as never wanting to have kids. As for hating kids, I hear it's a lot harder to do when they're your own kids. Keep an open mind and be honest about not wanting to start a family as soon as possible. Although my fiancee and I really look forward to becoming parents, we also know we'll need a few years for us--both to develop our careers and to get used to being with one another in the lifelong commitment of marriage.

I'd say a lot depends on your age.

I'm married, and I don't want kids right now either, and my wife agrees, for the moment, that is right.

Not having kids at all, might make her resent you, if only subconsciously. It really depends on how strong her desire is.

Have you guys not had this conversation before hand? it seems really late in the game, to not have.

Manchu wrote:I'm into month six of engaged living. It helps that my fiancee and I both want children. In fact, neither of us sees much of a point to marriage without children and for us not being able to have them or not being able to afford adoption in the case of fertility problems is a nightmare scenario. So I'm not sure if I'm going to have a totally objective opinion on this matter. But anyway: I would advise you to not make it a deal breaker. Not wanting kids right now is not the same thing as never wanting kids. In fact, saying you never want to have kids is not the same thing as never wanting to have kids. As for hating kids, I hear it's a lot harder to do when they're your own kids. Keep an open mind and be honest about not wanting to start a family as soon as possible. Although my fiancee and I really look forward to becoming parents, we also know we'll need a few years for us--both to develop our careers and to get used to being with one another in the lifelong commitment of marriage.

I assume that you had at least some interaction on the subject, before becoming engaged. That makes all the difference in the world to me, even accounting for the change in perspective, that comes with age.

Hmm... you edited, and it makes a lot more sense... Nix the previous assumption that was in the earlier post.

@Wrex: What were you referring to? My edits consisted of inserting "a" before "nightmare scenario" and changing "having" to "have" before "a totally objective opinion." But yes, we certainly talked about this before I proposed in October. But, in all fairness, I must say that we were already on the same page about wanting children and did not have to work that out.

Manchu wrote:@Wrex: What were you referring to? My edits consisted of inserting "a" before "nightmare scenario" and changing "having" to "have" before "a totally objective opinion."

Maybe I misread, but this bit confused me a bit, and seemed unnecessary earlier.

Not wanting kids right now is not the same thing as never wanting kids. In fact, saying you never want to have kids is not the same thing as never wanting to have kids.

I thought you had said, "Saying you don't want kids, is not the same as never wanting them", or something like that. Saying doesn't equal doing, versus feeling doesn't equal doing. Something like that, I dunno, it seemed a bit more pushy earlier.

But yes, we certainly talked about this before I proposed in October. But, in all fairness, I must say that we were already on the same page about wanting children and did not have to work that out.

I think that having that dialogue is very important, simply because it would be very unfair to have common understanding, only to have a complete flip later. The couples I have heard with the issue of having children, did not take the time to discuss it before jumping into a very long term commitment.

EDIT: NM

Karon wrote:Alright, first of all, I've been engaged for about 4 months (about 7 days short of 4 months)

My wife is a beautiful women

Does your wife know about your finace? That could be the bigger problem right there

In answer to your question I'm engaged and I can see trouble about the kid issue coming. We've both in our 30s and the window is closing. I think I'm more into the idea than she is and even I don't want kids tomorrow.

But I know that we ain't getting younger and the chance of defects and complications goes up and up...

So yeah. It's a tough one.

You can tell I was a bit distressed when typing...hehe.

We are both 23 years of age.

We had this conversation a while ago, about 7 months, give or take a month, I actually brought it up out of nowhere, and she basically said "I don't want to talk about it right now"

Ironic, I know.

I think I blew this out of proportion, she didn't specify when or anything.

I guess the old one-two-I think we should develop our careers first-three.

There is always the old saying "kids are like are like guns: It is better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them."

Wait, or was it "Kids like guns, so give them a Beretta"?

Give it 5 years, but talk about it over that time. I wouldn't even stress it if I were younger than my late 20's, looking around the corner at my fourth decade.

23 is young, give it time.

Ahtman wrote:There is always the old saying "kids are like are like guns: It is better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them."

Wait, or was it "Kids like guns, so give them a Beretta"?

The latter... duh.

Wrexasaur wrote:I think that having that dialogue is very important, simply because it would be very unfair to have common understanding, only to have a complete flip later. The couples I have heard with the issue of having children, did not take the time to discuss it before jumping into a very long term commitment.

I am very suspicious of anyone considering marriage but saying they never want to have any kids.

Manchu wrote:I am very suspicious of anyone considering marriage but saying they never want to have any kids.

Not unreasonable, but Karon is pretty young.

Very suspicious does make you sound a bit paranoid though.

Karon wrote:You can tell I was a bit distressed when typing...hehe.

We are both 23 years of age.

We had this conversation a while ago, about 7 months, give or take a month, I actually brought it up out of nowhere, and she basically said "I don't want to talk about it right now"

Ironic, I know.

I think I blew this out of proportion, she didn't specify when or anything.

I guess the old one-two-I think we should develop our careers first-three.

Then you have PLENTY of time. I'd say now would be an important time for discussion about this. I'd be a bit more of an Issue if it was later in life, but you have plenty of time. My advice would be to at least spend a couple of years enjoying each other as a married couple, before even thinking of kids. You may be surprised, but as you get older, that desire to have kids may creep into you.

Wrexasaur wrote:Very suspicious does make you sound a bit paranoid though.

I don't mean that I'm suspicious of their moral character or something. Just suspicious that they are really so certain of what they want in the future. I'm sure the same could be said about me from the perspective of people who aren't looking forward to having children. And all I can really say is the same as them: I know that this is what I want my future to be like. I guess the only other thing I could say is that I think raising children is an important part of marriage, one of the major goals that marriage can achieve. You don't need to get married to not raise children. (I'm not saying that children cannot be raised properly outside of marriage but I do think that happily married parents are better able to provide the best circumstances for raising kids.)

I understand, and agree on most of your points. I assumed that you were suggesting such an opinion.

I think that happy parents tend to make better parents, but I also understand the symbolism of marriage. It really does mean something to the people that take part in it, even if the majority of marriages I have seen, didn't look very comfortable from the outside. The main point that I hear, is 'for the kids', which can be taken many ways, but most often is a nice thing to hear. Selflessness and all that, admirable stuff.

People will always be people, but for the most part, they really care a lot about their kids.

I have a kid and my wife to be has a kid; both are very interested in my (and her) models. this is not a bad thing it is VERY easy to direct your children away from touching your models (either without supervision or at all).

That said my kids(hers is just as much mine now) are some of the greatest joys in my life; they are only 4 now(6 months apart) but both cannot wait until they are deemed old enough to play, on top of that I get to teach them everything I know and take them to do all sorts of fun stuff that lets me relive my youth.

There is a point here worth talking about from a "Catholic perspective," if you'll pardon the pedantry. For many years, Catholic laypeople were told that the only point of marriage was procreation. But since the 1960s or so, this line has changed. Yes, things do change in the Church--don't ever believe people who say otherwise. In fact, the "children are the only point of marriage" thing was a change itself. Anyway, the love of the married couple is now spoken of as an independent end of marriage in-and-of-itself. Even so, Catholic parents are still painted with the broad brush of satire Monty Python style for stereotypically having tons of kids. I'd say the truth is that many Catholic parents don't totally understand that point about their mutual affection being a serious (if fragile) achievement itself. And I think this point is even more misunderstood outside of a religious context. But the point remains that you don't need marriage to love someone. Marriage certainly has a symbolic aspect but it has substantive meaning beyond its symbolism--and this is exactly what many people fail to understand. (This misunderstanding is a key to the tension surrounding gay marriage, I think.)

Quite simple, have a vasectomy on the sly, then act all surprised when the buggers don't swim.

Also acts as a very handy anti cheating device!

If a woman suddenly turns broody, that's it. Whatever else is said, whatever agreements are reached, her clock started ticking and she needs to produce a rugrat.

Weigh up if you can cope with the idea of being a parent because this will cost you your marriage if the answer is no.

Either you will find you love her enough and can tolerate the idea of being a parent, or you will ultimately lose her, physically as she goes to another, or spiritually as she shuts down and loves you less and less each day.

My advice is if she is your world, as your wife should be, then get yourselves financially capable of having a kid and then have one.
If not, then call it quits quickly and go your seperate ways.

I agree with the Stompa.

If she really wants children and you don't, the relationship does not have a long term future. She will end up feeling betrayed because you took the best years of her child-bearing life and wasted them.

I'm not accusing you, I'm just saying that if a couple has opposite ideas about the outcome of their relationship it is likely to end badly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
However you are still young. I did not get serious about marriage and children until I turned 30.

Maybe you should give it a year and see how your feelings change.

I'm 23 (almost 24) and got married 6 months ago. I'm really not ready to have children - I don't think that I would cope at all (emotionally, financially, etc). However, I know that if I were to somehow have a child with my wife in the near future, I would move heaven and earth to try and get a secure life for us all.

As it is, I think my wife and I can see the value in getting more secure in life before starting a family, though she is certainly more into having children than I currently am.

However, I am sure that it is a case of "cometh the hour, cometh the man" - you will rise to the occasion and do your best for your wife and prospective children.

Just try to have a frank discussion on the issue. After all, it is not just something that will affect her, but you and your families as well.

Ahtman wrote:There is always the old saying "kids are like are like guns: It is better to have them and not need them than to need them and not have them."

Wait, or was it "Kids like guns, so give them a Beretta"?

B.

Our theory was always have two because you never know when you might need a spare.


Meh. You're young. She'll decide when to have kids.

SilverMK2 wrote:

Just try to have a frank discussion on the issue. After all, it is not just something that will affect her, but you and your families as well.

This is sound advice. Talking to your spouse-to-be is the most important thing in improving the quality of your marriage. I was wed at 23, and am now 26. My wife's 28 now and we had our first 2 months ago. I think that still puts us in the young couples area, but you'd have to make that call.

We held off on having children because she was finishing up college, and neither of us wanted her to have to struggle with classes and pregnancy. I teach at a high school for pregnant teens, so I know just how difficult that can be. I also got a lot of pressure to have a baby, since many of my older students were working on their third or fourth kid. To them, I was running out of time before their very eyes.

We had a bit of a scare about midway through this getting married and having a kid period where she was wrongly diagnosed with endometriosis, which has a severe effect on fertility. I hadn't wanted children at the time when I got married, they just sort of were floating out in the future somewhere. I had my whole life to do so. Once that ability was threatened, I realized that I really wanted to have a child. Fortunately, my wife was able and we eventually had our son.

Pregnancy and childbirth are catalyzing events. They'll make your relationship much stronger or destroy it. Don't go into it half-heartedly. Talk it over with your fiancee until you are both on the same page. Oh, and if you're within 6 months of getting married- table the issue until after the wedding. The stress of planning a wedding is more than enough to occupy you both.

Kilkrazy wrote:I agree with the Stompa.

If she really wants children and you don't, the relationship does not have a long term future. She will end up feeling betrayed because you took the best years of her child-bearing life and wasted them.

I'm not accusing you, I'm just saying that if a couple has opposite ideas about the outcome of their relationship it is likely to end badly.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
However you are still young. I did not get serious about marriage and children until I turned 30.

Maybe you should give it a year and see how your feelings change.

What KK said.

I've seen this VERY SAME setup end in divorce for more than one couple I know.

It needs to be discussed well before any talk of marriage.

And if the two don't agree?

Well...

Meh, maybe you'll end up like me - I like my kids. Everyone elses? Not so much.

It depends on whether you just don't want kids right now, or if you don't want them ever.

I was married for three years before we had our son. We got married when we were 25, and my son was born when i was 28. I believe that people should be married for a little while before having kids to make sure they've had a chance to really enjoy being together. Parenthood is hard, and marriage is hard. And maintaining time for hobbies and friends after both is difficult as well.

Honestly, as you get older you'll likely change your stance on wanting children. Particularly as more of your friends get married and have kids.

Frazzled wrote: She'll decide when to have kids.

So speaks the voice of experience. Every man knows who actually controls the marriage.

As for me, the commandant hasn't issued marching orders for my frog-men so no babies here. I'm sure as soon as she makes up her mind, I'll be the last to know. Not crazy about the idea either because I would love to squirrel all the money we would waste on kids away and retire early.